docker hype and juju's future

[Ramez Hanna]

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:19 PM, brian mullan <bmullan.mail at gmail.com>wrote:

> Tim & Ramez...
>
> First, Tim as FYI...   I thought this was a really great writeup of
> Networking for LXC:
>
> http://containerops.org/2013/11/19/lxc
> -networking/?utm_source=Docker+News&utm_campaign=3faedf3ccf-Docker_0_5_0_7_18_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c0995b6e8f-3faedf3ccf-235708077
>
> The above LXC networking writeup really went into some details that I'd
> not understood well before.
>
> I've been interested in Docker for quite a while but like Ramez I wasn't
>  really sure I understood the excitement above what I could already do with
> LXC CLI itself.
>
> It was also good to see that Virt-Manager GUI now also supports
> installing/mgmt of LXC containers as well as KVM vm's.
>
> In my limited knowledge of Docker I think what I see as the biggest
> technological difference between Docker and JuJu is:
>
> JuJu is designed around the concept of deploying *"services".*
>
> Docker is designed around the concept of reusable pre-built LXC containers.
>
> *This "services" concept *in my mind *is much more powerful* as it takes
> into account the fact that deploying a service can include:
>
>    - Firewall
>    - Load Balancers
>    - Web Servers
>    - Database
>    - Cluster mgmt & high availability
>
> From what I have learned about Docker so far is that there is nothing to
> really prevent someone from building a Docker file that could include the
> above *but unlike JuJu there is no defined structure -or- structured
> approach behind doing so.*
>
> In JuJu there is a structure to defining/building a JuJu charm that "does"
> take into account not only all of the above but the synchronization of the
> different "servers" during startup, shutdown etc.
>
> With JuJu, by design, you can also easily extend  what any one Charm does
> through deployment of other Charm's providing other "services"... and with
> JuJu by design... this will all just work together.
>
> I've not yet seen anything with Docker that takes this approach.   But
> maybe I'm not looking in the right places??
>
> Docker is LXC based.
>
> JuJu can deploy to LXC but it also can deploy to KVM, XEN, VMware, Hyper-V
> etc architectures.
>
> *Docker is a really great technology* and can certainly find uses in an
> incredible number of applications.
>
> JuJu is also a really great technology but JuJu takes a more holistic
> approach utilzing the "services deployment/management" that IT departments
> in Enterprise or even Service Providers are clamoring for in today's Cloud
> market.
>
> I feel that JuJu is focused on DevOps to a greater degree than Docker.
>
> Chef or Puppet are also but I think JuJu's promise is greater than those
> two because JuJu Charms can be written using Chef/Puppet, python or
> anything else you can think of.
>
> *The biggest buzz for Enterprise or Service Provider (SP) right now is in
> the SDN area being termed Application Centric Networking. *
>
> I can see JuJu easily being able to address that whole concept... with
> some work to include "networking" more into the "services" concept.
>
> Application Centric Networking focuses on the allowing an Application or
> Application "service" to dictate the resources it requires to include:
>
>    - Network QoS
>    - Firewall
>    - Load Balancers
>    - Web Servers
>    - Database
>    - Cluster mgmt & high availability
>
> Notice how similar Application Centric Networking is to the previous list
> of JuJu above?
>
> Cisco's newly announced Application Centric Networking approach called ACI
> (Application Centric Infrastructure) based on Insieme.
>
> Cisco's ACI is built around the foundation of creating a "Profile" for an
> application service which defines the Application's:
>
>    - Network QoS
>    - Firewall
>    - Load Balancers
>    - Web Servers
>    - Database
>    - Cluster mgmt & high availability
>
> At deployment ... this "profile" is pushed into the
> compute/storage/networking infrastructure where
> the requisite Virtual Machines/Servers are created, firewall
> configurations set, load balancers installed, web application servers
> started/configured, databases created and Clustering defined.
>
> Where you read "profile" ... think of JuJu's upcoming/new JuJu "bundle"
> capability.    To me that sounds alot like what JuJu attempts to do... yes
> ?
>
> The ACI Application "profile" will also be understood by core Cisco's
> networking equipment and all of the Application Service's networking
> requirements will be configured
>
> JuJu already supports OpenStack.    *OpenStack's Neutron networking
> "service"* supports the concept of "plugins" to enable vendor specific
> capabilities.
>
> I believe Neutron will support Cisco's ACI via a plugin as it will support
> Vmware' NSX approach or other vendor's approaches that are starting to
> appear.
>
> sorry for the long message...
>
> my .02 only
> brian
>
>
> JUJU is the devops orchestration system and docker is just a tool, think
of docker as the install hook



-- 
BR
RH
http://informatiq.org
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