disabling upgrades on new machines by default?

Thu Oct 2 14:18:49 UTC 2014

In practice, it almost never happens.

I don't remember seeing anything actually from the archive break a charm on
update -- though the cloud tools pocket did have a breakage about 8 months
ago which did bad things.

--Mark Ramm

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Matt Rae <matt.rae at canonical.com> wrote:

> Thanks Dave!
>
> A downside to disabling upgrades is that users may have a bad experience
> if broken packages get installed and their services don't work. Not sure
> how often this would happen.
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 6:19 AM, David Cheney <david.cheney at canonical.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Matt Rae <matt.rae at canonical.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think the upgrade matters as much as speed. I feel like most
>>> users know to manage updates already, with their own policies, and that the
>>> fast user experience is important.
>>>
>>> Even if juju upgrades initially, users will still need to manage updates
>>> after, so I'm not sure how much the initial upgrade gains.
>>>
>>> "Juju is blazing fast!" is more exciting than "Juju makes sure I'm
>>> updated initially!"
>>>
>>> There is something to be said for having the exact same packages on
>>> every unit of a service rather than a few units having some versions, then
>>> units added later getting different versions.
>>>
>>
>> That happens anyway. Units added later may be built from later releases
>> of the cloud image.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Samuel Cozannet <
>>> samuel.cozannet at canonical.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why not put our perception to the test?
>>>>
>>>> Here
>>>> <https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheets/d/1T-8rf_XxXbvCCRRHT69KtRM5k4oJiHyTEuzbENBU0Js/edit#gid=0>
>>>> is a spreadsheet where you can compile your variables. The top line
>>>> summarizes the sum of values. The column that gets green is the one we
>>>> should go for [assuming we are representative]
>>>>
>>>> Sam
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:45 AM, John Meinel <john at arbash-meinel.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So there is the question of what is the "user experience", and people
>>>>> trying out Juju and it seems slow. Though if it is slow, doesn't that mean
>>>>> that images are out of date?
>>>>>
>>>>> I just bootstrapped a fresh Ubuntu from Amazon's web interface today,
>>>>> and I noticed that apt-get upgrade on there installed a new bash to fix the
>>>>> newest major security hole. It seems like it is good to at least apply
>>>>> security updates, and I'm not sure if it is easy to only install those.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>> =:->
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:51 AM, José Antonio Rey <jose at ubuntu.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that, as Jorge mentioned, most users do value having
>>>>>> everything up to date by default, specially when they may go directly to
>>>>>> production environments. Devs may also want to use this switch, as it will
>>>>>> save time during the deployment for testing the charms they have developed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that turning on upgrades as a default would be more valued
>>>>>> by end-users, but that's just a personal opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> José Antonio Rey
>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2014 2:34 PM, "Jorge O. Castro" <jorge at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Kapil Thangavelu
>>>>>>> <kapil.thangavelu at canonical.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> > juju can save minutes per machine (especially against release
>>>>>>> images) if we
>>>>>>> > turn off upgrades by default.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are some updates coming to how we build cloud images that might
>>>>>>> be relevant to this discussion:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://blog.utlemming.org/2014/08/archive-triggered-cloud-image-builds.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO safer and slower makes sense for most people, those of us who
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> speed for demos/conferences will know about this switch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jorge Castro
>>>>>>> Canonical Ltd.
>>>>>>> http://juju.ubuntu.com/ - Automate your Cloud Infrastructure
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Juju mailing list
>>>>>>> Juju at lists.ubuntu.com
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samuel Cozannet
>>>> Cloud, Big Data and IoT Strategy Team
>>>> Strategic Program Manager
>>>> Changing the Future of Cloud
>>>> Ubuntu <http://ubuntu.com> / Canonical <http://canonical.com> UK LTD
>>>> samuel.cozannet at canonical.com
>>>> +33 616 702 389
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>
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