sane

[Bruce MacArthur]

Greetings --

I shall top-post.

Steven, please let me point something out to you.  While it often seems 
quite false, computing is essentially a matter of VERY strict logic and 
sequence.  When it seems otherwise, the perception is usually wrong -- 
and is based on erroneous, deceptive, or missing information.  And I 
know the problem, first-hand, just about as well as anyone knows it; I 
am a COBOL programmer!

I knew a woman from either Colombia or Bolivia -- I forget which.  She 
arrived in the United States knowing precious little English, and was 
pretending to try to learn to speak English.  I say "pretending" 
because she frequently put forth more effort in explaining why English 
is a stupid language than in learning how it works "anyway"!  One time, 
I told her that it is Spanish -- NOT English -- that is stupid.  This 
shocked her enough that I could explain myself.  I gave the example of 
the Spanish word "misericordia" -- with six syllables.  The English 
word has only five letters and two syllables -- it is "mercy".  Then I 
pointed out to her that I agree that English is VERY difficult, and 
even "stupid" at many points.  But even if she and I agree completely 
on such issues, we will NOT change English!  If she fights the 
language, the language will win, and she will LOSE.  It is true.

The application is relatively simple.  You define yourself as being an 
artist.  There is certainly nothing at all wrong with that.  BE an 
artist; be an OUTSTANDING artist!!!

But when you come into the world of computing, it is YOUR job to learn 
the new language -- just as the woman from South America CHOSE to be in 
the English-speaking United States.  It is NOT easy to learn computing, 
and some would declare that the Linux world (including Kubuntu-land) is 
harder to learn that "win-doze".  Therefore, you yourself have chosen 
to take a VERY big bite -- nobody here imposed it upon you!  And, even 
if we agree with all of your complaints and concerns, Linux and Kubuntu 
are not going to change ALL of their colors simply to suit you.

I wish that I could offer help with the specific problems you are 
encountering.  And YES, they most certainly ARE problems!  But I do not 
have the specific understandings that you want, so I have kept my mouth 
shut, up until this posting.  But now I speak up.  And the suggestion 
that you need some GUI assistance -- and, I would suggest, possibly 
even another operating system -- is well taken.  I would suggest that 
you do a careful evaluation of yourself.  Some people (such as I 
myself!) would be true idiots to attempt to be artists.  And some 
people can "do it all".  And some people might be "idiots" to try too 
much computing in ANY environment.  And yet others can use a computer 
well enough -- but only in a limited variety of environments.  I do NOT 
know you well enough to "analyze" you in such respects, and would NOT 
presume to do so.  But perhaps you DO have that ability -- and even the 
need to do the job of analysis.

My sense is that the people here WANT to help you, but just like 
everything else in this world, there ARE some pre-requisites.  Do you 
have what is needed?  There is NOTHING the least bit "dishonorable" 
about honestly saying "Not really."  If that has to be your answer, we 
all hope that you can find a workable environment.

If that is NOT your answer, we must respectfully request that you learn 
a workable sub-set of "our language" (to use your EXCELLENT analogy) -- 
because it really is NOT "our" job to learn yours!  I realize that 
there are no applicable bilingual dictionaries, and no electronic 
Franklin translators -- but that is part of the landscape here!  Please 
realize that it IS difficult (and worse!), but work WITH us, rather 
than ON us.  If you CAN do this, and if you DO this, we can become very 
helpful.  Otherwise, we will almost certainly fail you.  And if that 
were to be the case, we would still hope for the best for you.

Best of good fortune as you ponder the situation and your best course 
for the future!!!!!


Bruce   Mac Arthur




On Wednesday 12 August 2009 23:40, Steven Vollom wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 August 2009 06:15:58 pm John L Vifian wrote:
> > On Wednesday 12 August 2009 1:12:27 pm Steven Vollom wrote:
> > > steven at Yeshua:~$ less sources.list
> > > sources.list: No such file or directory
> > > steven at Yeshua:~$
> >
> > Steven, you should be able to figure out why this isn't working by
> > yourself.
> >
> > First run: info less to find out what less does.
>
> I just read the Description.  I have only used the command line entry
> (l) when instructed specifically to do so by someone helping me, and
> have done so only to provide the info they require to help me.  It
> still confuses me.  In the 'Description' portion of "info less", I
> then get confused when it refers to 'vi'.  Never heard of that
> command.  It also begins the pattern that causes me difficulty to
> learn.  I am now leaving the focus of my task with a new term to have
> to understand to continue.
>
> The first thing said in 'info vi', is "Vim is a text editor that is
> upwards compatible to Vi.  It can be used to edit all kinds of plain
> text.  It is expecially useful for editing programs."
>
> It continues to explain another application Vim instead of Vi which
> was where I was first referred while looking for "info less".
>
> I realize this is pretty common for you who are experienced, however,
> before you have experience, it is difficult enough to read an
> explanation of your main focus.  When given a reference that refers
> to a new application (vi) and doesn't even explain the 'vi??' (it
> refers to 'vim a different application)you were directed to review,
> it starts a pattern of search that puts someone like me in total
> confusion.
>
> As an artist, I think in a different pattern of thought.  Pictures in
> my mind of complete processes come to mind.  I don't see explanations
> for things I am not asking about first before I get to instructions I
> ask about.  At this point it is hopeless for me to pursue the method
> you suggested.
>
> Computer Gurus just plain think differently.  What just happened to
> me does not confuse you at all.  It is the way Computer Gurus think;
> it is a direct path for you.  But for me it is like taking a detour,
> then another until, you forget where you are going.  And when getting
> a referral to an application to 'vi'  which then talks about an
> application 'vim' may not confuse you, I, at that point expect to
> never find out what I am looking for, for if I then get referred to
> something like vim/x, I expect to get a response that refers to
> vim/xy before I read anything to do with vim/x.  And for a
> right-brained thinker this is totally illogical.
>
> Generally, I would not put you through this.  But it is where people
> like me end up.  We don't ever seem to learn, because of the way the
> information is presented.  This past year I have learned so very
> much.  But while learning those things I know how to use, I have not
> learned anything about some of the basic things including this
> instruction, because unless I am helped with the problem, as when I
> receive from the list, I am forced to just give up.
>
> It is the same for me when I make a google search.  I type in a
> question.  In the first sentence of explanation, I am many times
> linked to terms that I don't understand.  When I apply the link in
> that first line of instruction, I get to the first line of a new page
> of information, and in the first sentence I get a couple of links to
> something that I need to know to continue.  Pretty soon, I am reading
> a page that is explaining something that is explaining something that
> is explaining something that is explaining something that is supposed
> to help me understand the first line of the question I asked in the
> first place. At this point I am so confused that I can't remember the
> first question and have no idea how to retrace my steps to find it.
>
> Since even the first inquiry is totally new for me, after the third
> or fourth link transfers, I forget what the original subject was. 
> And if I read every thing supplied in each link, I will never get to
> line two of the first question, because there is never an end to the
> first line links to another page.  It puts a right-brain thinker in a
> constant point of overload.  It makes computing seem hopeless.
>
> I have had to learn what I know this past year facing the same
> problem every day I get help.  There are a couple of you who have
> figured, at least partially, what the problem is, and have made
> adjustments in helping me.  It is the reason I have learned so much,
> but if I just get referred to 'l' or 'man' or other command line
> sources of information, I will never learn anything.  The description
> of the description rarely refers to what I am there to find out
> about.  I am usually diverted to other information I am not yet
> capable of assimilating yet.
>
> Using your instruction, I pointed each blocking statement for a
> person like me.  If you attempt to follow my process of thinking, you
> will see why I am seemingly unteachable.  I am not sure it is
> possible for a logical thinker like you to understand a graphical
> thinker like me, but I am hoping it is.  If I can figure out how to
> learn from you, I will learn the way to work with graphical thinkers.
>
> I really think we have the same intellectual capabilities, but
> through a process that is almost like talking a different language. 
> If and when I am sufficiently instructed, I plan to write 'man' pages
> and 'l' pages and google instructions that we can both understand and
> use to learn.  It will turn a light on for thousands who have
> probably given up on computers.
>
> I am sorry to have written so long, but until someone in the Guru
> group tries to understand a graphical thinker's thought process, we,
> right-brain thinkers, will either be left completely out of the
> computer loop, or it will take persistence and perhaps 4 times as
> long for graphical thinkers to learn. Thanks for your help.  If you
> are willing, please address this email? Additionally, if something I
> have said confuses you, please explain the confusion?  It will help
> me to finally unite our different way of viewing a problem.
>
> Steven
>
> Please reply, John.  It would be so helpful to me.  Believe it or
> not, there are certain aspects of the art field where I am considered
> the Guru.  It doesn't pad my ego, it just goes to show that
> right-brain thinkers sometimes have intellectual gifts as well.  I
> suspect it would take a long time for me to explain this area to a
> computer Guru, because not even all the right-brain thinkers
> understand this area of my gift.  But they all acknowledge that it is
> a special gift.  And for me it is just easy - the way I normally
> think, and not special at all.
>
> Not intended to elevate your opinion of me, just trying to get you to
> understand that I might not be a total zero for intelligence, just
> more like a person learning a new language.
>
> > Then if the output of your less command says:" sources.list: No
> > such file or directory" then perhaps it is telling the truth and
> > there is no sources,list in your home directory of /home/Yeshua/,
> > which is just fine as there shouldn't be one there.   The file is
> > in /etc/apt/ so you either have to run less from that directory or
> > supply the full path and filename to less.
> >
> > As others have told you by now less /etc/apt/sources.list will do
> > the trick, although I would recommend cat instead of less just in
> > case the last few lines are what people need to see.
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > John Vifian
> > --
> > Define the Universe and give three examples. - Anonymous

-- 
布鲁&#26031  麦克阿&#29791
Bruce   Mac Arthur
15875 Switzer
Overland Park, KS 66221
     913-897-4157
     bmacasuru at fastmail.us