sane

[Bruce MacArthur]

Hello, Steven --

I top-post in general reply to your last two messages.

Dis-like -- even "hate" -- me as you may choose.  That is entirely your 
choice.  But I strongly advise you to avoid using such words as "sadist" 
and "killer" -- especially when you have previously issued threats of 
violence that are only slightly "conditional".

IF you knew how to read PROPERLY, you would know that I have NOT been 
the least bit abusive of you on the list.  I did not WANT to be 
personally abusive.  All that I did was tell the TRUTH -- and SINCERELY 
attempt to present to you a constructive alternative approach to (and 
understanding of) learning that MIGHT have worked for YOU.  If you 
disagree, I request that you give me some specifics (as opposed to mere 
feelings).

In any event, you would be wise to simply avoid using my name (in ANY 
form) in any future messages.  PLEASE do not ACT as a fool would act in 
this specific respect.


On Thursday 20 August 2009 08:10:28 pm Steven Vollom wrote:
> On Saturday 15 August 2009 12:37:12 pm John L Vifian wrote:
> Trim
> >
> > Some of the things you have had the opportunity to learn in the last 
bout
> > of emails are:It is not a response of anger, just my opinion
> >
> > The difference in left and right clicking a file in dolphin
> 
> Thank you I do this now.
> 
> > what 'less' is and how to use it in a rudimentary fashion
> 
> I have tried to use less, but it never has provided me with anything I 
can 
> understand.
> 
> > How to turn line numbers on in 'less'
> 
> But I could not understand the less nor when or how to use it.
> 
> > How to turn line numbers on in kate
> 
> I do that and am very grateful, it helps a lot.
> 
> > when to use sudo and when to use kdesudo
> 
> I believe I use them properly now.
> 
> > how to search this list's archives with google
> 
> I don't think I will ever be able to do that about computer issues.  I 
haven't 
> given up, I try every day.  I get diverted by links, and don't seem to 
know 
> when to apply the link or not.  If you click on every link in an 
explanation 
> and every link in every link from the initial page you go to, there 
become 
> more links than there is time to read them.  I have not yet figured out 
how you 
> do that task.  Certainly you can't follow them all; there is always 
new links 
> in the next page.  Almost every time I search a topic, the first thing 
done in 
> perhaps the first sentence is a link to something to read before 
continuing 
> with the page that is supposed to teach you what you need to know.  
When I 
> click on the link, in or close to the first sentence there is a link to 
> something else.  In both cases there are many links in the lines that 
follow.  
> I become confused very fast.
> 
> > what the command cd does
> 
> I change directory when I remember it is needed.  Using the command 
line is a 
> very new thing for me.  I don't get enough practice.
> 
> > what a path is
> 
> I know what a path is and use it all the time.
> 
> > what happens when you open kate with a non-existent file name
> 
> I may understand this now, but it is new memory.
> 
> > what happens when you run less with a non-existent file name
> 
> I still don't understand the use of less.  And after you read Bruce's 
last two 
> emails, you might understand how difficult it is to re-ask a question.  
> Apparently I am required to understand the first explanation.  So what 
do you 
> do if you still don't understand?
> >
> > you should be able to open a file in a different directory with less 
or
> > kate. For instance there is a file named dpkg.log which is in the 
'log'
> > directory which in turn is in the 'var' directory.  
> 
> Is there a way to trace a path going backward?  How?
> 
> > You should be able to
> > construct a command line to open it using both less and kate.  Try 
it. 
> > Note you don't need to use either kdesudo or sudo and shouldn't.
> 
> I am confident I can now do that in kate, but it is new understanding.  
I still 
> don't understand less.  If I am correct, I only need to use kdesudo or 
sudo in 
> kate or dolphin is if I want to make changes.  I can read the data.  
In the 
> past, I have read documents using the word processor.  That I have 
used a lot.  
> Kate is something very new to me.  I still don't understand less.  
When I read 
> the help on it, I became more confused.
> >
> > This is all very basic stuff, and you need to figure out a way to make 
it
> > understandable to yourself
> >
> > > He said open kmail and type 's' and then what I want and it would 
locate
> > > what I need from my email records.  That would be great if I knew 
where
> > > in the kmail application I type the command in.
> 
> Now that I have found how to use the 's' instruction, sure, I feel a 
bit 
> stupid, but when it was first explained, I had not yet used the search 
line in 
> the kmail opening page.  Additionally it sounded like a command line 
> instruction.  It never occurred to me that by simply pressing the 's' 
on the 
> keyboard it would or even should open a window.  I have made enough 
mistakes 
> and been warned enough to be careful when you type a command.
> 
> Perhaps there are other times I have typed a letter command without 
needing to 
> type it in a search line or command line, or any place, then hit enter 
to get 
> the result.  When I got the 's' to work, it was an exciting surprise 
and made 
> me laugh.  I was very happy.
> 
> I realize now that I have been through some pretty advanced procedures 
with 
> your help.  When I learn that this stuff is beginning information, I 
amaze 
> myself for what I have done.
> >
> > You don't type it in anything.  The one caveat being that if you 
have more
> > than one window open in kmail that the active window has to be the 
one
> > showing your mail folders.  Just type 's'.
> >
> > You can also do the same by clicking "Edit" in the menubar and then
> > clicking "Find Messages..."  
> 
> I found Find, but not Find Messages.  It is new for me.  I will 
experiment.  
> Thanks!
> 
> > or you can use the icon with the binoculars
> 
> I couldn't find any Binoculars; is it on the kmail open window?
> 
> 
> > which for me is on the same line is the existing search field.
> >
> > > When I typed in the word 's kdesudo' in the search line and 
pressed
> > > enter, your email came up.  I was expecting to see an email that
> > > contained the word kdesudo.  I know there are some in my saved 
emails. 
> > > That is an example of how I would like to use the search bar.  Can 
it be
> > > set up to do as I prefer?
> 
> So you understand, I was not trying to enter the command kdesudo, I 
was trying 
> to search for the things in the folders that talked about kdesudo.  I 
wanted 
> to confirm what I knew or should know about kdesudo.  I realize now 
that when 
> you don't have a folder highlighted, the 's' instruction does nothing.  
Before 
> I typed kdesudo in the search line, and I was interpreting the term 
search 
> like I could search the folders, I typed in an 's' and pressed enter.  
Nothing 
> happened that led to what I would have expected. Kdesudo was my second 
try for 
> information.
> 
> I am way ahead of thousands of silent people unwilling to be called 
stubborn 
> or stupid by asking dumb questions.  But I will bet that most of those 
who 
> need the list are not using it for the embarrassment they will have to 
endure.  
> You are around knowledgeable computer people.  I am around people who 
want to 
> learn how to send an email, or find the answer to a question.  They 
would love 
> to do what I am doing, but don't want to experience the rudeness of 
Bruce.
> >
> > To my knowledge the search field only searches the subject line of 
the
> > emails in the current folder, and can't be configured to do 
otherwise.  It
> > also has the annoying habit of opening the current email in a new 
window
> > regardless if it matches the search.
> 
> All of you who know my reputation on the list are probably unaware how 
far I 
> am from basic information, just because I have tackled many 
complicated tasks, 
> with an enormous amount of help, I agree, but I, like one of you has 
said, 
> have built my own computer since getting on the list.  I have 
installed 
> numerous applications using the CLI.  When I started, I did not know 
how to 
> even open a shell or know the many different terms used for naming it.  
And if 
> you paid any attention at all to my description of the use of Google, 
there 
> are millions of people who are confused about when to go on the link 
as 
> opposed to continuing reading the page for your answer.  There is no 
end to 
> the links to follow in the first line or two of any link.  If you read 
all the 
> links on the first line of a page, you will never be able to get to the 
second 
> link of any page either, then the third.  There isn't enough years in 
a 
> lifetime to get to the end.
> 
> For the life of me, I don't know how you do that, other than you know 
what the 
> link is about and don't need to divert.  For me and so many others 
every link 
> is something new, so you can never get to the end of the transfers.
> >
> > >...  Eventually I get
> > > it, your way too, it just takes a lot longer with a lot of 
repetition. 
> > > In reality, if you bang on a square peg enough times, eventually 
the
> > > corners will come off and it will fit in a round hole.
> >
> > Steven do you learn by doing?  Do you learn by observation?  Are you
> > willing to spend time learning things even if you don't immediately 
see any
> > useful application of the stuff you are learning?  Would you be 
interested
> > in some sort of tutoring?
> 
> Absolutely, that is about the only way I can learn.  That is how I 
have 
> learned the little I know.  As Bruce would say, it takes 25 times for 
me to 
> learn.  Well that is an exaggeration, but without instruction that you 
> understand, it takes repetition, so your mind can grasp what must be 
happening 
> when you do the work.
> 
> If, for instance, there had been practical need for me to remember and 
> understand how to change directories using cd, the activity would have 
settled 
> in, but until I understood that cd stood for change directory and that 
there 
> was a difference between the term directory, folder and file, it was 
just 
> something I did, because someone told me to do it.  An inexperienced 
person 
> sees a manila folder in his mind when any of the three terms are used, 
until 
> he understands their function.
> 
> My daughter uses a computer daily.  She has a very important job.  But 
they 
> use Windows.  She knows how to get what she wants and needs and yet 
only 
> understands a small part of what I have learned.  I crave what you 
offered.  
> When I search a thing like cd, it is explaining how to change 
directories when 
> I didn't have the foggiest understanding of what I was changing.  
> 
> When I learned to understand cd, I had installed an application called 
> avimerge.  I had to learn how to cd, just to put the pieces together.  
When I 
> understood that -o meant output and -i meant input, I no longer forgot 
the 
> necessary command to merge avi's.  When I learned that there could be 
no 
> spaces between the letters of a command, excepting you put the words 
in 
> quotes, I learned how that must be done, and the space that is 
necessary 
> between the quotes separating two quotes.  But when I really learned, 
and 
> after several edits in the command, was when the numbers started 
flying.  When 
> that happened, I laughed for more than 5 minutes, and that is a lot of 
joy.  
> With the little I know about computers I can make the commands for 
merging and 
> splitting without thinking.  When I install Jaunty, there is but a 
brief pause 
> when the Sun agreement comes up.  For a while it was experimenting to 
get the 
> right item highlighted and approved, but after about a hundred 
installations 
> it gets pretty rote.  Same with kmail.  Wget is one thing I am still 
confused 
> about, but I have used it several times by cut and pasting.  I am sure 
in time 
> I will understand it too.
> 
> When I was editing this email, I got the inclination to include the 
previous 
> paragraph.  To read for better understanding, take a look at the last 
line of 
> the second paragraph above.  It should have continued from 
there.------
> Sometimes it appeared to be a folder, sometimes it appeared to be a 
file.  No 
> distinction came early enough in training to keep me from looking like 
a fool 
> when already I have installed applications or packages or programs, 
all that I 
> had to learn about, when all were programs in windows.  Repaired 
broken 
> applications, reinstalled the OS.  
> 
> And right now with my limited knowledge, I have a reasonably stable 
copy of 
> Karmic working on this computer and can install Jaunty on my newer 
computer in 
> just 14 minutes including installing the necessary updates.  I can 
configure 
> kmail as fast as any other human, I have done it so many times, but it 
is 
> broken right now, and the only solution I know is to reinstall it.   
The ISP 
> is working properly and configuration is perfect, but the computer will 
not 
> communicate with the ISP.  And although it has been explained before, 
I do not 
> know which files and folders to save so that I won't lose my emails if 
I 
> reinstall or my folders which are more important to me, or my 
addressbook.  If 
> and when I ask for help on this issue, I will probably annoy a very 
good 
> friend, Goh Lip who walked me through it and Eberhard too.  I am so 
sorry, but 
> I lost my records in one of the reinstalls and will have to try the 
archives 
> for the list, to see if I can avoid re-asking the questions.  And 
Bruce, who 
> shouldn't be wasting his time on my posts will probably there with a 
two page 
> scathing.
> 
> The last time I needed to use kate to edit the sources I was able to 
correct 
> the problem, but quite frankly was experimenting a bit when I knew it 
was 
> dangerous, because I was in sudo, and corrected the mistake by 
comparing the 
> line with the error, to other lines in the list. I didn't know if I 
could 
> delete anything without screwing things up.  I didn't know if removing 
the '>' 
> that was all it took to fix the problem or would cause permanent damage 
to the 
> application.  I just gambled and removed it.  Shortly after I did 
that, I got 
> a reply to an email where I showed line 58, which I might add changed 
from the 
> original line 62 when the problem first surfaced.  It wasn't until 
today that I 
> realized that the sources.list was the same as the kpackagekit GUI 
version of 
> the same directory or folder, I am still not sure which it is, 
directory or 
> folder.
> 
> You have no idea how many people there are in worse condition than me 
and want 
> to change that situation.  How many of you would want to be openly 
embarrassed 
> like I was with Bruce?  How many of you would even ask a basic 
question?  You 
> are fortunate, you can not be humiliated like that by a practicing 
sadist.  
> You have too much experience and knowledge to have to face him.
> >
> > If you are going to continue using the command line you really need 
to have
> > some basic grasp of what the commands are doing, or you should stop 
using
> > the command line at all.  
> 
> But by quitting just because it is difficult would destroy one of my 
main 
> objectives.  I have learned more than you know and less than you 
assume.  I 
> have been working blind most of the time.  And when I ask too many, 
what you 
> all consider stupid questions, a Bruce surfaces and tries to break my 
spirit.
> 
> With my minute knowledge, I use the CLI 99.9% of the time.  And now 
that I 
> know that sources.list is sources.list instead of sources.lst, and 
that it is 
> the same as the one in the GUI, I will start learning how to enter 
PPA's and 
> get Keys using the command line, until that becomes easy.
> 
> It won't be another year and I will be more like you than I am like 
myself.  
> That is providing I don't get filtered from help.
> 
> > Most things can be accomplished in the GUI and it
> > should be extremely rare that  you would actually need to use the 
command
> > line.
> I believe that most users are incompetent because of the GUI.  The GUI 
make 
> everything easier,  except to fix something.  And for those who don't 
have much 
> extra money, they can't afford technical help.  I wouldn't have had a 
chance 
> without this list.
> >
> > > Is the search I need a boulean (sp) search.  I heard that was the 
google
> > > browser search type?
> 
> When I used that term, I was under the impression that Google used a 
boulean 
> search, and it was the best.  I suspected it might be an excellent way 
to 
> search through emails, and if it was an application, perhaps I could 
add it to 
> my computer.
> 
> Bruce and Donn appear to be important servants of the list, but they 
do not 
> measure up to the quality of the others, at least not to someone of 
lesser 
> experience.   I personally don't want any future help from either of 
them.  
> They are too cruel.  Thanks if you are willing to continue to help me.  
I so 
> appreciate most of you.  This tutorial idea is great, but remember I 
have 
> tried a bit of that too, and when I did, even it was too far over my 
head.  
> Nonetheless, I have learned a lot from the List, and I think I might 
be able 
> to handle them now.
> 
> When many of you were where I am, you were working on 25mhz computers 
with 8mb 
> of ram.  You barely needed a hard drive, and are partly responsible 
for 
> creating some of the confusing terminology that exists as common 
today.  
> Consider how difficult it might be to enter when I did.  I suppose some 
would be 
> with 200mhz computers and 35mb of ram and a 500mb HDD.  But you get 
my point.
> 
> I am very happy with where I am  today.  I am planning to move back to 
San 
> Diego in the near future.  When there, I will teach my children and 
> grandchildren what I know to try help them through the learning curve.  
I am 
> so very grateful to you who have a heart and a little compassion and 
not so 
> much killer instinct in your nature.
> 
> Much love and gratitude,
> 
> Steven
> >
> > ??? what are you trying to ask here?
> >
> > John Vifian
> 
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