Mac OS X v. Linux

[Michael Shigorin]

On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 08:06:57AM -0400, Eric Dunbar wrote:
> > Apple may yet have to realize the mistake they made with
> > deciding for proprietary, again
> Huh?

Yep.

> > The cloud already has a silver lining since KHTML/Safari news
> That's simply your bias coming through.

*sigh*

I try to have no bias regarding these things, even if I know 
it's impossible.

> To me (and, certainly most people)

Frankly, I'm not interested in "most people".  Don't know them.

> > That's just my personal opinion, time will tell.


> I trust their business analysts to guide the company and their
> software analysts to keep the business analysts honest.

Do you know them?  I know a few top-level IT analysts for
Ukraine; the wars with marketing departments aren't always won, 
and big companies with western decision takers (still) tend to
believe marketing departments more then their fathers.

Apple is one of the most grievous examples of this same old
story, btw.  I'd kind of trust Jobs since what he has done *is*
the price to his words, but people who shove him away... why
should anyone they try to control trust them when he who seemed 
to control them didn't manage it?

But it's rather off-topic there being more business development
matters rather than anything else, and I'd call blind trust
a disease too.  There are a lot of those carefully grown in us.

> > So it's no use of handwaving there.
> Reinventing Mac OS in Linux is not the point. Taking the *good*
> design ideas from both Windows and Mac OS (X) is!

...handwaving. :)  Or please be so kind to provide bugreport
links (feature enhancements technically get treated in bugreports
too in every BTS I've seen).

> > > I don't think being a Windows clone (which is what Linux
> > > really feels like nowadays)
> > BS (and overgeneralizing). (DISCLAIMER: ...uh, not backspace)
> GNOME and KDE *ARE* Windows clones.

Ugh.  Please tell that the people who cas^H^H^Hdownscaled the
feature set of GNOME between 1.x and 2.x branches, specifically
Galeon.

I was very happy user of Galeon 0.x.x and was shocked with 1.3.x
series and all of this crap coming from big knowledgeable Sun
folks and Applist crowd.  Yes, I know I shouldn't call them names
-- but to build a bad product from scratch and to kill off such a
*decent* team with a decent product is a crime!

And doing so "for the benefit of Stupid User" is twice so,
because user level concept *is* not just thought over but
successfully implemented!

And then you come over and tell whom people could trust too
and what is what's clone.  No thanks, let's do our homework.

> They have virtually the same window widgets, same task bar,
> same Start menu, all the same *bad* usage concepts. When I sit
> down before my Windows XP machine at work I notice little
> difference from the Ubuntu GNOME that I have at home.

Maybe because clever people at Canonical decided that Applish
defaults found throughout GNOME2 [*] were not very convenient
for the average Joe User you're praying to?

(DISCLAIMER: _here_ I'm trying to judge the way you seem to be,
just to show there's a bit of a problem with consistency)

Sometimes it's better to try several possible alternatives before
criticizing one of them in a non-productive way; this might get
you involved in something more close to you, and it's one of the
few things why "lesser" Linux distros survive when they "catch"
what the big two (or five) have missed.  Heck, you can have a
rescue disk that's tailored better to your habits and that's why
you just have it in your pocket! :)

(DISCLAIMER: I don't advocate you or anyone else to move off
Ubuntu/GNOME but still finding the distro or desktop environment
or window manager that's more to your taste is going to either
push you to the trenches where people *are* tuning things as they
like and don't really think obedient to The Crowd -- there are 
a lot of different communities, try searching "apple" on
distrowatch.com in your particular case)

> That was the one real disappointment I had when I first started
> experimenting with Linux because it meant that Linux wasn't
> living up to their potential! FOSS has the potential to go
> BEYOND Windows and Mac but it hasn't, yet!!!

You're quite interesting person who manages to make one brilliant
point after a whole load of things not converging with observed
reality... mine at least. :)

So yes, this happens and it has; still handwaving doesn't really
help much (or at all).  Go bugzilla.gnome.org or bugs.kde.org,
check for similar proposals, file enhancement proposals, join the
usability teams... it can be not very much but it's a *real* work
that really helps.

* by me; some year or so ago; in ALT Linux builds; seems that
  those were upstream rather than a specific polish

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike at altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/