apps choice for Ubuntu and installation choices [Was: cross-platform virus]

[Alexander Jacob Tsykin]

On Thursday 13 April 2006 00:55, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 April 2006 13:41, Alexander Jacob Tsykin wrote:
> > On Wednesday 12 April 2006 20:33, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > So we come back to my original statement. What are these apps
> > > that these people do and don't need? Please provide a list. And
> > > when you do, please make sure it is a researched list that
> > > accurately reflects the needs and wishes of the actual user base,
> > > as opposed to your own personal opinion.
> >
> > I will do that, but here are a few simple ones to start (if anybody
> >  disagrees, please let me know):
>
> I don't think you are getting what I'm saying. I asked for a
> *researched* list and I have very good reasons for asking that. By
> researched I mean statistically analysed answers from a
> representative large group of users. As a wild guess I'd say this
> would be 10,000 of them minimum but intuition tells me 100,000 is
> more like it.
>
I don't think you read my response. I will research it, but to ask for 10,000 
or 100,000 is to ask the impossible.
> > A home user most definitely does not need the Gimp. It is overkill,
> > it has far too many features, is hard to learn, and difficult to
> > use.
>
> No, you think those things about The Gimp. You might not be
> representative.
>
Like I said, these are my thoughts. I do plan to do research.
> > Gnucash would be useful to almost any body who owns their own
> > business
>
> I happen to agree with you here, household budgets would benefit too.
> But we'd have to ask the devs why it was excluded.
>
> > No multimedia apps need to be included in a business
> > install because chances are the user will need word processing,
> > email, and web browsing only.
>
> That's a huge assumption you are making. How do you know that's what
> business users need? Did you ask them?
>
yes, but i will do ti in a more organised fashion as well, rather than rely on 
hearsay evidence.
> > A tool to convert measurements is
> > useful for almost anybody.
>
> OK
>
> > A desktop choice for kids would be good.
> > It could include mainly games, some educational and some not.
>
> Isn't there a spin off distro that specifically targets that market?
>
edubuntu does not. It includes only educational programs. I had envisioned 
somethign more tailored for home use.
> > Bittorrent most definitely does not need to be included by default.
> > Only users with a fairly good understanding of computers have even
> > heard of it.
>
> Says who? What about projects that use torrents to distribute data?
> Is this statements based on any real observation at all, or are you
> just quoting your own personal use-case and assuming that it
> therefore applies to all?
>
I have already said this is my opinion. That si exactly what I am quoting. I 
will get more information. Please read posts properly before you reply to 
them.
> > Gnash should be included in the base install, so that
> > people aren't forced to sue Macromedia's proprietary plugin, and it
> > works for 64-bit too.
>
> That's a flash replacement right? I avoid flash where possible but
> AFAIK there's a problem with the flash format - it's free to write
> but not to read. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like a
> similar category of thing to mp3 and dvd encryption - legal issues
>
you are wrong. The main issue is that it is in CVS at the moment. It is still 
much better than gplflash which is included in the repositories, so it might 
as well be included too.
> > At the moment it is not even installable.
> > The various printer drivers should not be installed by default. A
> > user is very unlikely to use more than 2, and yet he has all of
> > them. It is unnecessary.
>
> User upgrades printer. Now what?
> A company leases Nashua printers. At the end of the contract they get
> a better deal from another supplier using Canons. No user can print.
> Now what?
> Will you volunteer to be the one to hand-upgrade ever desktop in the
> company to install new printer drivers?
>
put it in the repositories, but I see no need for it in the base install.
> > These are just a few which rapidly come to mind. Please add more or
> > correct me as you see fit. I think this is a good idea, so I would
> > love to discuss it.
>
> But you are making a classic error, of assuming that your own
> viewpoint represents something other than you. And you are doing it
> in many threads lately. This isn't a flame, but you need to get this
> point:
>
I said if you disagree with me, I welcome a discussion. I repeat, as you seem 
to not understand (or not read properly) THIS IS MY OPINION, I WILL GET 
FIGURES, BUT THIS IS JUST WHAT I THINK AT THE MOMENT.
> You cannot assume that what works for you is best for all. You cannot
> assume that because you saw say three people have the same problem
> that all users will have that problem (all three could have the same
> misinformation from the same mistaken source).
>
I don't. I use Gimp. I don't use Gnucash, I'm trying to think of what is best 
for the majority, not for me personally, because I believe I have enough 
knowledge to make just about anything work relatively easily.
> A sure fire way to kill any good project is to make assumptions about
> what the users want from it. There is only one way to answer this
> question, and that is by doing a real survey of the users, and making
> sure your sample size is representative of the user base. You have to
> take steps to avoid false positives and negatives, and the human
> tendency to not mention things that are not problematic.
>
I agree. Again, please read my posts carefully before replying to them. 
> Your idea isn't bad in principle, but you have absolutely no data to
> work with currently. In fact you have tainted data - your own
> opinions, biases and preferences. And you can't back any of them up
> with facts.
>
Read previous part where I said I would do a survey.
> > As for who would choose apps, the devs would,
> > who else?
>
> Wrong. Ideally, the devs package whichever apps that real research
> indicates will be best suited and/or received by the users. This
> probably wasn't realistic for Warty (due to cost and unfamiliarity)
> so we do the usual bootstrap thing instead - try to make an informed
> prediction and hope you get it right. If you succeed somewhat, tweak
> as necessary, but go and get real data as quick as you can.
>
this is a commonplace. But the devs do choose apps ultimately, they look at 
data, but it does not happen automatically.

Sasha