From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Thu Dec 1 09:20:45 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:20:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20320] Gnome-mag is not built with the XDamage extensions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051201092045.CE073303C042@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20320 Ubuntu | gnome-mag daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW Ever Confirmed|0 |1 ------- Additional Comments From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com 2005-12-01 09:20 UTC ------- Will poke at it. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From themuso at themuso.com Fri Dec 2 01:02:00 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:02:00 +1100 Subject: Important info re Accessibility and document formats in Massachusetts Message-ID: <20051202010200.GA28440@localhost.localdomain> Hi all I was browsing through the IRC channels that I am in, and came accross an interesting discussion in the #kde-accessibility channel re the ODF, Koofice and Massachusetts. As some of you may know, Massachusetts is looking at possibly changing from Office products to foss software, due to wanting all documents to be in the open document format (ODF). Discussions about GNOME accessibility, as well as KDE accessibility came up, and what needs to be done to try and get those involved to change from Windows office software to a FOSS sollution. I have been given permission by those KDE accessibility developers present to post an edited log of the conversation. If you wish to have a read, you can download the log from the following URL: http://www.themuso.com/kde-accessibility-MA.log On that note, I propose an addition to next week's meeting to fasttrack Live CD derivative development, so that we could possibly have something to show as soon as possible. I am told that this would increase their likelyhood of a GNOME/Foss sollution being chosen. Henrik, do we have a meeting ajenda on the wiki somewhere? I haven't looked yet, but if I find one, I will post the link on the list, and in the topic for the #ubuntu-accessibility IRC channel. Will talk to you all at the next meeting. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From themuso at themuso.com Fri Dec 2 01:04:35 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:04:35 +1100 Subject: Important info re Accessibility and document formats in Massachusetts In-Reply-To: <20051202010200.GA28440@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051202010200.GA28440@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20051202010435.GB28440@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 12:02:00PM EST, Luke Yelavich wrote: > On that note, I propose an addition to next week's meeting to fasttrack > Live CD derivative development, so that we could possibly have something > to show as soon as possible. I am told that this would increase their > likelyhood of a GNOME/Foss sollution being chosen. Sorry, I meant fasttrack discussions and plans to get development of the LIVE CD derivative moving ASAP. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Dec 2 09:33:05 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:33:05 +0000 Subject: Important info re Accessibility and document formats in Massachusetts In-Reply-To: <20051202010200.GA28440@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051202010200.GA28440@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <439014D1.2030601@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > http://www.themuso.com/kde-accessibility-MA.log Interesting. If are able to put a Breezy version together (that's what you mean right?) and get some organised distribution going, we could make some noise :) - Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Fri Dec 2 09:48:15 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 20:48:15 +1100 Subject: Important info re Accessibility and document formats in Massachusetts In-Reply-To: <439014D1.2030601@ubuntu.com> References: <20051202010200.GA28440@localhost.localdomain> <439014D1.2030601@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20051202094815.GA7251@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 08:33:05PM EST, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Luke Yelavich wrote: > >http://www.themuso.com/kde-accessibility-MA.log > Interesting. If are able to put a Breezy version together (that's what > you mean right?) and get some organised distribution going, we could > make some noise :) I hadn't even thought about what release we would base it on. Breezy I guess as it is stable, but with some backported stuff perhaps. Anyway, something to consider. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Dec 2 10:23:48 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:23:48 +0000 Subject: Important info re Accessibility and document formats in Massachusetts In-Reply-To: <20051202094815.GA7251@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051202010200.GA28440@localhost.localdomain> <439014D1.2030601@ubuntu.com> <20051202094815.GA7251@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <439020B4.4000502@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > I hadn't even thought about what release we would base it on. Breezy I > guess as it is stable, but with some backported stuff perhaps. > Depends very much on what the timeline is for this. When a good idea comes along, it always seems really pressing and that we should do it yesterday. OTOH, there may be benefits of taking the longer way around. AFAICT, these are some of the benefits of getting an ODF-MA disc out: 1. The MA employees and others involved in the debate will have a working example of an accessible desktop to evaluate 2. We, as a team, will have a project to focus on and a useful tool for our own testing 3. The wider FOSS (and FOSS-AT) community will see we are doing something in the MA-ODF debate, which could help draw in testers and developers. The MA-ODF debate has been quite active in the news recently, but I guess it is drawn-out affair in reality. If there is an urgent need to make these available by Dec. 14th or Jan 1st, then we would have to go with Breezy, but if it can wait until Dapper feature freeze (mid-February), then we can go with a Dapper based version. (At that point we could evaluate whether dapper was stable enough for a one-off Live demo disc of if there is good reason to wait for the dapper release) If the MA people can wait until mid-feb, then I think we should go Dapper, because that will have great benefits for pts. 2 and 3 as well. Making a testing derivative is something we should be getting on with anyway and if the MA-ODF issue/story becomes relatively less important in a few weeks months then we haven't really wasted any efforts. If we rush out a breezy version, that might be the case though. We should appeal to the wider community to help with pre-release testing and distribution. Most FOSS-enthusiasts are familiar with this story now. With some publicity it should be easy to get help in the local area just burning CD, etc. About booting and languages: This issue remains unsolved: Could we cheat and make separate English and Spanish versions for the MA case? That way each could boot all the way to desktop without any questions. - Henrik From garycramblitt at comcast.net Sat Dec 3 02:25:23 2005 From: garycramblitt at comcast.net (Gary Cramblitt) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 21:25:23 -0500 Subject: Important info re Accessibility and document formats in Massachusetts Message-ID: <200512022125.24162.garycramblitt@comcast.net> I wish to make two points about this.     1.  The requirement to make an ubuntu live cd with working accessibility is mine.  Nobody at the meeting I attended in Massachusetts actually requested this.  Don't want anyone to get the wrong impression. :)     2.  Peter Korn gave a demonstration with Gnome and I believe he was running it under Solaris.  Does anyone know if the freely available Solaris distro has Gnome and whether the accessibility is working correctly?  If so, there would be much less urgency to produce an ubuntu cd with working accessibility. -- Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad) KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Sat Dec 3 18:41:34 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 12:41:34 -0600 Subject: Important info re Accessibility and document formats inMassachusetts In-Reply-To: <200512022125.24162.garycramblitt@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello, I downloaded and tested Solaris from Sun. Their desktop is accessible with gnopernicus and magnifier. They do not activate java accessibility or full screen magnification or firefox accessibility on the fly. All disability themes are available, but some are disabled. You can install their "accessibility suite' at install, but it is not "on" by default. There are a few other useful tools which I have trouble remembering. Mostly screen reading stuff. I also enjoyed the install of Solaris. I was able to increase the font size, as they did everything through a terminal. I pumped up the fonts to the max, and as a low vision user this is exactly what I needed. Not sure if they are planning to do an accessible install or not. You can throw all the tools on all you want, but if its not usable and simply just "doesn't work" it becomes extremely difficult for disabled users to use. For example magnification. Split screen magnification is imo not a workable environment. Try logging out with split screen magnification on. The window sticks in the center, cutting half of it off. It is also unmovable. I would have thought this would have gone against the Gnome HIG. Anyone think this is bug worthy? Full screen magnification works, and I was actually able to get work done in it. Much more work than split screen magnification. However it took quite a while to get it rolling, as documentation is old and is impossible for someone who is very low vision to setup. There is no distribution that makes everything easy. Jason Grieves Jason Grieves -----Original Message----- From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Gary Cramblitt Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:25 PM To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Important info re Accessibility and document formats inMassachusetts I wish to make two points about this.     1.  The requirement to make an ubuntu live cd with working accessibility is mine.  Nobody at the meeting I attended in Massachusetts actually requested this.  Don't want anyone to get the wrong impression. :)     2.  Peter Korn gave a demonstration with Gnome and I believe he was running it under Solaris.  Does anyone know if the freely available Solaris distro has Gnome and whether the accessibility is working correctly?  If so, there would be much less urgency to produce an ubuntu cd with working accessibility. -- Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad) KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Sun Dec 4 02:06:35 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 02:06:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20320] Gnome-mag is not built with the XDamage extensions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051204020635.102A3303C042@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20320 Ubuntu | gnome-mag ------- Additional Comments From themuso at themuso.com 2005-12-04 02:06 UTC ------- I have managed to come up with a fix for this bug. It turns out that the headers weren't the only problem. The Xdamage library is not actually linked against the magnifier binary at compile time. I also found that the magnifier compilation was linking against libXfixes which it can also use, it doesn't reference the headers for that either. I have fixed both of these. The attached patch contains the original fix in configure.in, a rebuilt configure script and debian/control* files to add libxdamage-dev and libxfixes-dev to the Build-Depends list. The fix is probably slightly cludgy, but it works for me. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Sun Dec 4 02:08:38 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 02:08:38 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20320] Gnome-mag is not built with the XDamage extensions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051204020838.5E0E3303C042@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20320 Ubuntu | gnome-mag ------- Additional Comments From themuso at themuso.com 2005-12-04 02:08 UTC ------- Created an attachment (id=5153) --> (http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=5153&action=view) XDamage and XFixes patch for gnome-mag in dapper. Apply with patch -p1 in gnome-mag source directory. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Sun Dec 4 12:06:28 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:06:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 7108] Keyboard rate is not long enough for users with disabilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051204120628.C370E303C042@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7108 Ubuntu (installer) | kbd-chooser daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |ubuntu- | |accessibility at lists.ubuntu.c | |om -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Sun Dec 4 12:09:26 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:09:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 6386] Install gok and gnopernicus on demand? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051204120926.E3B16303C03C@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6386 Ubuntu | gnome-applets daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |ubuntu- | |accessibility at lists.ubuntu.c | |om ------- Additional Comments From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com 2005-12-04 12:09 UTC ------- CCed accessibility list, added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/CommonInstallHook -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From themuso at themuso.com Tue Dec 6 08:41:15 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:41:15 +1100 Subject: Ubuntu Accessibility Team meeting reminder. Message-ID: <20051206084115.GA7675@localhost.localdomain> Hi all Just a reminder that we have an Ubuntu Accessibility Team meeting this Wednesday, December 7, at 14:30 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting. You can look at the meeting agenda here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityTeamMeetingAgenda If you have something you would like discussed at the meeting, please add it to the wiki page linked to above. Logs will be available afterwards should you be unable to attend. Hope to see you all there. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Dec 6 23:32:34 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:32:34 +0000 Subject: SpeechSynthesisProposal Message-ID: <43961F92.4050705@ubuntu.com> Hi Luke, I posted your ideas here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpeechSynthesisProposal (as agreed) and made some comments. It's partly me trying to get to grips with the topic, so please comment and correct as needed. Basically, I want to try to break it down into basic components (so that I can get my own head around it ;) ). I would rather we focused and did one of these things really well than try to do too many. Specifically, it would be good to see things merged in with the main trunk as much as possible so that it will be carried forward in the future and be compatible with updates. If we need to prioritise between GUI and CLI, or whatever (or just pick a place to start), which one is easier or more important? - Henrik From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Dec 7 01:14:38 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:14:38 -0500 Subject: SpeechSynthesisProposal In-Reply-To: <43961F92.4050705@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: What are the chances of making this accessible to low vision and mobility impaired users? 1) low vision. Magnifier or increase of fonts. Solaris STARTS to do a good job of this. Installation is done in what looks like an X session (CDE?) where everything is outputted to an xterm. That terminal has resizable font sizes. We need to make the font choices much greater than solaris, and perhaps even the ability to bring up magnifier in an X session? I know focus issues will be problem, but perhas we can have it setup the way GDM does accesible logins. Shortcut keys? 2) Mobility Access. If everything is keyboard accessible I think that will help a lot. Obviously the current install is, but chances of implementing something else? God Bless, Jason G. Mathew 11:28-30 >Hi Luke, > >I posted your ideas here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpeechSynthesisProposal >(as agreed) and made some comments. It's partly me trying to get to grips >with the topic, so please comment and correct as needed. > >Basically, I want to try to break it down into basic components (so that I >can get my own head around it ;) ). I would rather we focused and did one >of these things really well than try to do too many. Specifically, it would >be good to see things merged in with the main trunk as much as possible so >that it will be carried forward in the future and be compatible with >updates. > >If we need to prioritise between GUI and CLI, or whatever (or just pick a >place to start), which one is easier or more important? > >- Henrik > >-- >Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 7 10:00:47 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:00:47 +0000 Subject: SpeechSynthesisProposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4396B2CF.9060904@ubuntu.com> Jason Grieves wrote: > What are the chances of making this accessible to low vision and > mobility impaired users? By 'this' I presume you mean the installer? I want to try to identify very clearly what components and features we are actually talking about here so we can set realistic priorities. We should separate out issues relating to d-i (which will mainly be used for Live-CD boot and server install in the future) and UbuntuExpress. I will start a page at UbuntuExpress/GnomeUserInterface/Accessibility where we can list the key requirements for that. Also, we are generally power users, and so installation is an important issue, because we install a new system every 6 months or even twice a day for testing purposes. However, the future of Ubuntu may well be on pre-installed systems, in which case the daily-use tools are more important to a much larger group. If we can make these tools better, they have a greater chance of being installed by default. Speech and magnification are again completely different technical issues. They are combined in tools like Gnopernicus because they are often used by the same group. If we want to focus on better magnification, then I think we should write up a separate plan for that. (I believe Daniel has already started working on building gnome-mag with XDamage, yay!) > 1) low vision. [snip] Shortcut keys? Hm, it didn't occur to me that that keyboard shortcuts were as important to low-vision users, but that makes sense. > 2) Mobility Access. If everything is keyboard accessible I think that > will help a lot. Obviously the current install is, but chances of > implementing something else? So I think we should focus on Ubuntu Express since it's now being actively developed. I'll start a page now. Please add to it (and help keep it clear), and then we should track the development carefully. When will the first testable versions be out, anyone? - Henrik From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 7 12:05:09 2005 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:05:09 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: vocal synthesis] Message-ID: <1133957109.14716.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> I forward this to the mailing list, so everybody can respond to this. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Transcription" Subject: vocal synthesis Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:50:08 +0100 Size: 3651 URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 7 17:38:19 2005 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:38:19 +0100 Subject: 2nd Accessibility Team Meeting Message-ID: <1133977099.8120.12.camel@localhost> Hi everybody, this was the 2nd Accessibility Team [1] meeting [2]. [1] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityTeam [2] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityTeamMeetingAgenda We were quite happy to see around 10-15 very actively thinking people there. In short we decided to: * review http://www.themuso.com/ubuntu/accessibility closely, produce documentation from it (on the wiki first, docs later); apart from it may serve as a starting point for our testplans * investigate in the software and the links mentioned on http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/index.php (Linux Home Automation) * think about packages we may want to install by accessibility meta packages [3] * watch out for new software [4] we might want to include in Universe for further testing and consideration and report about it on the mailing list [5] * we discussed some more topics, like speech synthesis (speakup came up as well) and how to improve boot and d-i for low vision, but decided to spec-ing out options and then taking the discussion to ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com * organise the current accessibility pages and discuss specs on the mailing lists, so we can start acting soon. [3] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityTeam/MetaPackage [4] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityTeam/NewSoftware [5] http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility We closed the meeting after 1,5 hours and were very happy to work on all this as a team. If you feel like this is a good idea yourself, join the team. Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Dec 7 23:25:22 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:25:22 -0500 Subject: SpeechSynthesisProposal In-Reply-To: <4396B2CF.9060904@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: >Jason Grieves wrote: >>What are the chances of making this accessible to low vision and mobility >>impaired users? >By 'this' I presume you mean the installer? > >I want to try to identify very clearly what components and features we are >actually talking about here so we can set realistic priorities. We should >separate out issues relating to d-i (which will mainly be used for Live-CD >boot and server install in the future) and UbuntuExpress. I will start a >page at UbuntuExpress/GnomeUserInterface/Accessibility where we can list >the key requirements for that. ok > >Also, we are generally power users, and so installation is an important >issue, because we install a new system every 6 months or even twice a day >for testing purposes. However, the future of Ubuntu may well be on >pre-installed systems, in which case the daily-use tools are more important >to a much larger group. If we can make these tools better, they have a >greater chance of being installed by default. True but can't that argument be used for not even worrying about speakup in the kernel? > >Speech and magnification are again completely different technical issues. >They are combined in tools like Gnopernicus because they are often used by >the same group. If we want to focus on better magnification, then I think >we should write up a separate plan for that. (I believe Daniel has already >started working on building gnome-mag with XDamage, yay!) Yes, but my point was if we are going to make an installation accessible you have got to make it accessible to all disabilities, imo, if possible. Perhaps if speakup is easy to use, those w/o screen reader experience can use it. You are probably right, take it 1 step at a time. Just trying to represent us low vision people here :). It kills me when i I have to watch my friend Steve try to install linux because the dang font is so small. > >>1) low vision. [snip] Shortcut keys? >Hm, it didn't occur to me that that keyboard shortcuts were as important to >low-vision users, but that makes sense. Yep going from 1 top of the screen to the bottom in like 4x mode full screen magnification takes alot longer than say alt+tabbing :) >>2) Mobility Access. If everything is keyboard accessible I think that >>will help a lot. Obviously the current install is, but chances of >>implementing something else? >So I think we should focus on Ubuntu Express since it's now being actively >developed. I'll start a page now. Please add to it (and help keep it >clear), and then we should track the development carefully. When will the >first testable versions be out, anyone? OK sounds good to me. I haven't looked into Ubuntu Express much, I guess I need to start investigating > >- Henrik > Great meeting today everyone. ~Jason From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Dec 8 12:01:34 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:01:34 +0000 Subject: wiki cleanup Message-ID: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> Hi List, Just a quick notice that I'm cleaning up the structure of our wiki pages a bit. So it will be even more messy for a short while :) Basically some pages were on the form AccessibilityFooBar, and others were AccessibilityTeam/FooBar I'm changing it so that 'Accessibility' is the root of all our pages, including '/Team' We'll still get sub pages from Team though, like Accessibility/Team/Goals, but more general pages will be on the form of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Background I hope that makes sense :) I try to catch the broken links, but feel free to tidy up more after I'm done :) - Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Thu Dec 8 12:29:46 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 23:29:46 +1100 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 11:01:34PM EST, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Hi List, > > Just a quick notice that I'm cleaning up the structure of our wiki pages > a bit. So it will be even more messy for a short while :) > > Basically some pages were on the form AccessibilityFooBar, and others > were AccessibilityTeam/FooBar > > I'm changing it so that 'Accessibility' is the root of all our pages, > including '/Team' I like this a lot. It will certainly make things easier to find. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mhz.chile at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 12:52:48 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 09:52:48 -0300 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> I am not very sure this is in fact a good idea. It does sound logical to web site users but it may affect the wiki engine. AFAIK, and truly MHO, wikis work better when the info is just one level, avoiding subpages. Why? Because when I write HenrikOmma on any page I am sure it will be autolinked. Even if the page I am writing on is wiki/subpage/subpage/subpapge, HenrikOmma will still be considered first level page. Now my point is, how would anyone know that HenrikOmma is in some of the suppage levels? How would anyone know HenrikOmma is a subpage of OneOfWikiPages/ or FooPage/ or ThisOtherPage/ ? When we start using subpages in a wiki, everybody that has privileges to edit must first know which the wiki structure of this site is, otherwise, we may end up having OneOfWikiPages/HenrikOmma and FooPage/HenrikOmma, etc. If we stick to just one page level, and we do encourage people to just follow that very simple rule, we do get 'unstructured site' but we avoid 'braking autolinking' (which is my very favourite feature in a wiki). What do you think? -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. "Hell is repeating someone else's mistakes" (JPS) [Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales o acentos para evitar conflictos de lectura entre sistemas] [En smilar contexto, evitemos enviar archivos .doc, .ppt o .xls. Intentemos enviar solo formatos libres y mas livianos, como lo son .txt, .html, .pdf, .odt, etc.] From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Dec 8 13:48:06 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:48:06 +0000 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> Mauricio Hernandez wrote: > > If we stick to just one page level, and we do encourage people to just > follow that very simple rule, we do get 'unstructured site' but we > avoid 'braking autolinking' (which is my very favourite feature in a > wiki). > > What do you think? > Hi Mauricio, I know you have this view, but I think it's going to be a hard sell. Flat page structures may be wiki nature, but if that conflicts with human nature, then I think we must try to adapt to the latter ;) Anyway, people are different. I find myself preferring a structured page hierarchy, but others might disagree (clearly). If enough people are strongly against sub-pages, we can change back. I think it makes people think a bit more about where they place a page and how it fits in with our overall plans, which is good (provided the original structure is sensible). With the wonderful [[Navigation(children)]] macro, you can see which pages are linked in under the current one at any time, which is nice like on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team. In fact, I've just added this macro to your home page to help you track your very own sub-pages ;) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MauricioHernandez - Henrik From mhz.chile at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 14:22:57 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:22:57 -0300 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <720dc91f0512080622q21ae7504g3acad13ddc76b401@mail.gmail.com> Henrik, thanks for the reply. I do, indeed, see the need of more human approach, like structuring wiki according to content levels. My only strong point I ask you to consider is the 'risk' of braking 'autolinking' feature which will only work if not-frequent-wiki-editors (not me or you or anyone who is actively working on a set of contents) know that CamelCasesWords they use, will be linked. My only fear here is that if editors write CamelCases words on a page and save the page and they see no links to existing pages, then we/they may create new pages that already exist and that were not even detected because they were subpage level. If that happens subpages will turn into an expensive solutions, more expensive than having an unhuman wiki with flat level pages :) So ok, let's try using subpage levels, but can i ask you to please discuss this with Moin devel group in case I am wrong and there are some ways to have healthy subpages structures (sadly, i've been away from that project for about 6-7 months now, but if you want me to discuss it too, you can count on me, of course). -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. "Hell is repeating someone else's mistakes" (JPS) [Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales o acentos para evitar conflictos de lectura entre sistemas] [En smilar contexto, evitemos enviar archivos .doc, .ppt o .xls. Intentemos enviar solo formatos libres y mas livianos, como lo son .txt, .html, .pdf, .odt, etc.] From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Dec 8 14:35:22 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:35:22 +0000 Subject: application-based or usergroup-based testing? Message-ID: <439844AA.6030703@ubuntu.com> OK, I'm done messing with the wiki page structure now (though some cleanup of individual pages clearly remains). In doing that I started looking a bit more closely at our testing plans (which we will be developing over the next few weeks). There seems to be two ways to go on this: tests based on user groups and applications. Both are probably useful, so I'm wondering if we should go for a hybrid solution? Of course we would need to make the rationale and border lines clear. User-group-based testing -- is useful for discovering general issues related to installing, booting, logging in and charting which tools can be useful for certain groups on the desktop and at the CLI. It is also useful for people who are new to a11y in getting an idea of the issues involved. Application-based-testing -- is probably also useful for our key accessibility apps like Gnopernicus and GOK. These are our cornerstone tools for providing access to Ubuntu and should be tested in a range of circumstances with various other applications. It might be easier to perform rigorous testing of these assistive apps if we have dedicated tests for them. So a test for a certain user group might conclude that 'Yes, performing this task will work for this user, provided GOK works well with OpenOffice' and would then deffer to the more detailed GOK+OpenOffice test. Thougts? - Henrik From mhz.chile at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 14:47:52 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:47:52 -0300 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <720dc91f0512080647i39308debr9a04bfc0dbfb3e72@mail.gmail.com> oh, and yes, Navigation() is a cool macro. It is very helpful, indeed. For this/my particular discussion about general wiki subpages I did not consider it because my point is for the whole /data dir pages, not for the AccessibilityTeam pages. Of course, within a small set of pages that do not link to any other pages outside the set, that macro is excellent (but imagine if every ubuntu team or ubuntu subject was using subpages. The work of an editor would be much more time consuming, prechecking existing pages before using CamelCasee) It would very cool to have a macro for the following scenario: - You are creating a page and included 3 CamelCasesWrods - Save the page and check the page links and syntax - Notice 2 links to non exisitig pages - Click on 1 of those links and get to the 'Create new page' interface with Templates and Similar Pages - In the similar pages column you see /subpage/subpage/CamelCaseWord similar to yours IIRC, currently that similar pages column does not search for /data/pages/subpages/subpages/... does it? If it does, my point is 50% nonsense. Therefore, if I am wrong to have that previous fear, I see this other very possible scenario: - Once you save the page, you dont care about checking links (existing and non-existing) - Non-existing links will be listed by the 'WantedPages' macro. Now, please consider this: Today, at the time of writing, we have 2908 NON-existing pages in our beloved /data dir. Those 2908 not-yet-created pages will surely increase if people get motivated to use subpages and does not check for links when they save a page or even before writing on a page. I would really like to help finding ways of avoiding that, however, so far I only think that maybe if we promote the MoinWiki-School we'll force people to attend the school before editing/creating pages. -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. "Hell is repeating someone else's mistakes" (JPS) [Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales o acentos para evitar conflictos de lectura entre sistemas] [En smilar contexto, evitemos enviar archivos .doc, .ppt o .xls. Intentemos enviar solo formatos libres y mas livianos, como lo son .txt, .html, .pdf, .odt, etc.] From mhz.chile at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 14:57:03 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:57:03 -0300 Subject: application-based or usergroup-based testing? In-Reply-To: <439844AA.6030703@ubuntu.com> References: <439844AA.6030703@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <720dc91f0512080657s3ddb0929me86a98d4aa780a7d@mail.gmail.com> Considering that I still have no clue how I am going to be useful to this very interesting project, I am in a position of just reading and follow the more experienced people. I do think I could contact some groups in Chile who may help us testing applications, groups with a11y issues. (still don't even know how to trasnlate that without meaning offense to anyone :D nor I know who to contact) -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. "Hell is repeating someone else's mistakes" (JPS) [Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales o acentos para evitar conflictos de lectura entre sistemas] [En smilar contexto, evitemos enviar archivos .doc, .ppt o .xls. Intentemos enviar solo formatos libres y mas livianos, como lo son .txt, .html, .pdf, .odt, etc.] From mhz.chile at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 15:07:50 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:07:50 -0300 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> <720dc91f0512080647i39308debr9a04bfc0dbfb3e72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <720dc91f0512080707r66efc111laee0b853763b5d61@mail.gmail.com> > Force? Please let's make guidelines, but let's not force/enforce > people to some lecture or seminar on "proper" wiki use. Majoity of > people are smart enough to know they can bork something that is a > public resource. oops, I apologyze for some of the words that may sound "agressive" in english. When I write I still think in Chilean spanish and then I go into my english words bag. I meant 'force' as in 'try to convince/encourage/motivate/push them to read some kind of document or go to school' so they know what our suggestions are to have a happy /data dir -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. "Hell is repeating someone else's mistakes" (JPS) [Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales o acentos para evitar conflictos de lectura entre sistemas] [En smilar contexto, evitemos enviar archivos .doc, .ppt o .xls. Intentemos enviar solo formatos libres y mas livianos, como lo son .txt, .html, .pdf, .odt, etc.] From kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu Thu Dec 8 15:10:08 2005 From: kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu (Kevin Cole) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:10:08 -0500 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <43984CD0.8080203@gri.gallaudet.edu> Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Mauricio Hernandez wrote: > > > If we stick to just one page level, and we do encourage people to just > > follow that very simple rule, we do get 'unstructured site' but we > > avoid 'braking autolinking' (which is my very favourite feature in a > > wiki). > > > > What do you think? > > I know you have this view, but I think it's going to be a hard sell. > Flat page structures may be wiki nature, but if that conflicts with > human nature, then I think we must try to adapt to the latter ;) > Anyway, people are different. I find myself preferring a structured page > hierarchy, but others might disagree (clearly). If enough people are > strongly against sub-pages, we can change back. I think it makes people > think a bit more about where they place a page and how it fits in with > our overall plans, which is good (provided the original structure is > sensible). I think it depends largely on your intended audience: While the wiki's are open to all, do you have realistic expectations that all will visit your pages? If the audience truly is wide, then I'd agree with Mauricio. If the audience is fairly narrow, then I think Henrik's approach makes good sense. If the audience falls somewhere between... it's a bit of a toss-up. My feeling is that folks who are really editing a lot can be educated fairly quickly. It might be a bit of a pain to try determin- ing WHICH KevinCole or MauricioHernandez to edit if there are more, than one of each, but the pain seems minimal. I don't have strong feelings either way, but ultimately on this one, I think my vote goes to Henrik. I believe that the number of people actually creating pages in the Accessibility tree will remain relatively small, and wiki-savvy. The number of people editing might be larger, but then folks who are re-organizing can clean up after bad edits that link incorrectly, yes? -- Kevin Cole | Key ID: 0xE6F332C7 Gallaudet University | WWW: http://gri.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/ Hall Memorial Bldg S-419 | V/TTY: (202) 651-5135 Washington, D.C. 20002-3695 | FAX: (202) 651-5746 "Using vi is not a sin. It's a penance." -- St. IGNUcious, Church of Emacs -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mhz.chile at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 15:29:32 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:29:32 -0300 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <43984CD0.8080203@gri.gallaudet.edu> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> <43984CD0.8080203@gri.gallaudet.edu> Message-ID: <720dc91f0512080729j676803c8sc5ddb45d21214be1@mail.gmail.com> > I don't have strong feelings either way, but ultimately on this one, > I think my vote goes to Henrik. I believe that the number of people > actually creating pages in the Accessibility tree will remain relatively > small, and wiki-savvy. The number of people editing might be larger, > but then folks who are re-organizing can clean up after bad edits that > link incorrectly, yes? Yes Kevin, if we are only considering linkingin the universe of Accessibility wiki pages, sure, supages is the best choice. But let's focus on the example where AbiWrod or Abiword (doesn't matter for the example) is an applications that can effectibly work very good for the a11y team editors. If you use Abiword on some pages and want to make it to work as a link, then you should/will have to check and make sure that is a non-existing page in all the /data dir. If you don't check /data dir pages first and proceed to create the Abiword page (cited on you page), all the other 'WantedPages' citing Abiword will still be wanting an Abiword page because thay will not know you just created the Abiword page the need. (ooops, it is more difficult to express than i thought) -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. "Hell is repeating someone else's mistakes" (JPS) [Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales o acentos para evitar conflictos de lectura entre sistemas] [En smilar contexto, evitemos enviar archivos .doc, .ppt o .xls. Intentemos enviar solo formatos libres y mas livianos, como lo son .txt, .html, .pdf, .odt, etc.] From kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu Thu Dec 8 16:03:25 2005 From: kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu (Kevin Cole) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:03:25 -0500 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <720dc91f0512080729j676803c8sc5ddb45d21214be1@mail.gmail.com> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> <43984CD0.8080203@gri.gallaudet.edu> <720dc91f0512080729j676803c8sc5ddb45d21214be1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4398594D.3070808@gri.gallaudet.edu> Mauricio Hernandez wrote: > > >>I don't have strong feelings either way, but ultimately on this one, >>I think my vote goes to Henrik. I believe that the number of people >>actually creating pages in the Accessibility tree will remain relatively >>small, and wiki-savvy. The number of people editing might be larger, >>but then folks who are re-organizing can clean up after bad edits that >>link incorrectly, yes? > > Yes Kevin, if we are only considering linkingin the universe of > Accessibility wiki pages, sure, supages is the best choice. > > But let's focus on the example where AbiWrod or Abiword (doesn't > matter for the example) is an applications that can effectibly work > very good for the a11y team editors. If you use Abiword on some pages > and want to make it to work as a link, then you should/will have to > check and make sure that is a non-existing page in all the /data dir. > > If you don't check /data dir pages first and proceed to create the > Abiword page (cited on you page), all the other 'WantedPages' citing > Abiword will still be wanting an Abiword page because thay will not > know you just created the Abiword page the need. > > (ooops, it is more difficult to express than i thought) Ah! I see what you mean now, I think. And without some sort of administrative batch tool that allow someone to report/review/resolve such situations, it could get ugly quickly. So in order for something like this to work well, a tool for page creators that automatically searches every- where, and a tool for clean-up crew to resolve mismatches would be needed... I still like the idea of the sub-page tree, but I see it's a bigger problem than I first thought. From mhz.chile at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 16:58:04 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:58:04 -0300 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <4398594D.3070808@gri.gallaudet.edu> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> <43984CD0.8080203@gri.gallaudet.edu> <720dc91f0512080729j676803c8sc5ddb45d21214be1@mail.gmail.com> <4398594D.3070808@gri.gallaudet.edu> Message-ID: <720dc91f0512080858r6ee67089id15661a76d65ee9c@mail.gmail.com> > Ah! I see what you mean now, I think. And without some > sort of administrative batch tool that allow someone to > report/review/resolve such situations, it could get ugly > quickly. So in order for something like this to work well, > a tool for page creators that automatically searches every- > where, and a tool for clean-up crew to resolve mismatches > would be needed... > > I still like the idea of the sub-page tree, but I see it's > a bigger problem than I first thought. yes, you see it. -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. "Hell is repeating someone else's mistakes" (JPS) [Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales o acentos para evitar conflictos de lectura entre sistemas] [En smilar contexto, evitemos enviar archivos .doc, .ppt o .xls. Intentemos enviar solo formatos libres y mas livianos, como lo son .txt, .html, .pdf, .odt, etc.] From jgotangco at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 15:00:53 2005 From: jgotangco at gmail.com (Jerome Gotangco) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 23:00:53 +0800 Subject: wiki cleanup In-Reply-To: <720dc91f0512080647i39308debr9a04bfc0dbfb3e72@mail.gmail.com> References: <4398209E.7020207@ubuntu.com> <20051208122946.GA4728@localhost.localdomain> <720dc91f0512080452s5425673bh64757aca93c33b2a@mail.gmail.com> <43983996.4000009@ubuntu.com> <720dc91f0512080647i39308debr9a04bfc0dbfb3e72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > I would really like to help finding ways of avoiding that, however, so > far I only think that maybe if we promote the MoinWiki-School we'll > force people to attend the school before editing/creating pages. Force? Please let's make guidelines, but let's not force/enforce people to some lecture or seminar on "proper" wiki use. Majoity of people are smart enough to know they can bork something that is a public resource. Jerome Gotangco jgotangco at ubuntu.com | jgotangco at gmail.com Mobile: +639196555242 GPG: 0xA97B69A0 From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Dec 9 11:02:52 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 11:02:52 +0000 Subject: AT-related bug list Message-ID: <4399645C.5000807@ubuntu.com> Hi, I've started a page for tracking AT-related bugs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Testing/BugList Is a sensible way of tracking them? Daniel? - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Dec 9 11:26:29 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 11:26:29 +0000 Subject: Disk spece requirements of AT features Message-ID: <439969E5.2030008@ubuntu.com> On this wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/GnomeUserInterface/Accessibility mpt points out that it's unrealistic to ask users to install AT features on a Live CD system before running Ubuntu Express. That's a good point, so if those features are to be of any use, they need to be installed by default. There is of course space limitations on the live CD, so any new inclusions must be well justified, starting with the disk space requirement. What's the best way of figuring that out for these packages? This page http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/gnome/gok gives the package size for gok, but what about it's dependencies? How many of these are not installed by default and how much extra space would really be needed? It seems slightly easier to figure out for http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/gnome/gnome-accessibility-themes though 4.5 MB is a fair chunk to ask to be included. (is this package indeed to fat? should we work to get it trimmed down and included by default?) Should we set up a prioritized list of of packages we would like to lobby for inclusion of? - Henrik From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Fri Dec 9 11:38:14 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 11:38:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20739] Vino (vnc) + StickyKeys causes keyboard hangups In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051209113814.7747D303C042@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20739 Ubuntu | vino daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |ubuntu- | |accessibility at lists.ubuntu.c | |om Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEEDINFO QAContact| |desktop- | |bugs at lists.ubuntu.com ------- Additional Comments From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com 2005-12-09 11:38 UTC ------- Thanks for your bug report. Do you have trouble and keyboard lockups on the box, where the vnc server ran? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Dec 9 11:41:51 2005 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 12:41:51 +0100 Subject: AT-related bug list In-Reply-To: <4399645C.5000807@ubuntu.com> References: <4399645C.5000807@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1134128511.17436.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Henrik, Am Freitag, den 09.12.2005, 11:02 +0000 schrieb Henrik Nilsen Omma: > I've started a page for tracking AT-related bugs: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Testing/BugList I think it's a good idea, to have them on Accessibility/Status or as you did it on Accessibility/Testing/BugList. > Is a sensible way of tracking them? Daniel? http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&resolution=DUPLICATE&resolution=---&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=ubuntu-accessibility%40lists.ubuntu.com&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= or shorter: http://tinyurl.com/89q3v is a list of bugs, where ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com is either CC or the QA contact. Until we switch to Malone, this should do. Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Fri Dec 9 12:01:45 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:01:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20739] Vino (vnc) + StickyKeys causes keyboard hangups In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051209120145.71C18303C043@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20739 Ubuntu | vino ------- Additional Comments From henrik at gotadsl.co.uk 2005-12-09 12:01 UTC ------- Yes, the box where the vnc server runs. I ran the client (tightvnc) on a Windows box. I'll test it later with the client running Ubuntu as well. What actually happens that the stickyness of keys gets activated at seemingly random times (I'll test more to try to figure out what causes it), including when you just minimise and restore the client vnc window. When Alt or Ctrl are pressed down and you try to perform normal actions, the results are seemingly unpredictable ... If you add the sticky keys monitoring applet to the launcher area you can at least see when keys have been made sticky, which does reduce the confusion. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Dec 9 12:13:11 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 12:13:11 +0000 Subject: AT-related bug list In-Reply-To: <1134128511.17436.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4399645C.5000807@ubuntu.com> <1134128511.17436.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <439974D7.4010404@ubuntu.com> Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hi Henrik, > > Am Freitag, den 09.12.2005, 11:02 +0000 schrieb Henrik Nilsen Omma: > >> I've started a page for tracking AT-related bugs: >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Testing/BugList >> > > I think it's a good idea, to have them on Accessibility/Status Yes, that seems better. I've just added the bugzilla link there. - Henrik From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Fri Dec 9 14:07:49 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:07:49 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20739] Vino (vnc) + StickyKeys causes keyboard hangups In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051209140749.F37DC303C042@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20739 Ubuntu | vino ------- Additional Comments From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com 2005-12-09 14:07 UTC ------- Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. If you use the box where the vnc server ran (sitting in front of it), does itself have those issues too? (not via vnc / vino) -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Fri Dec 9 14:58:36 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:58:36 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20739] Vino (vnc) + StickyKeys causes keyboard hangups In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051209145836.40E4F303C043@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20739 Ubuntu | vino ------- Additional Comments From henrik at gotadsl.co.uk 2005-12-09 14:58 UTC ------- Oh, I see. No it does not happen when you use the machine directly. Even when both StickyKeys and vino are enabled everything seems to behave itself. It's first when to start sending inputs from the remote machine that keys get stuck when they shouldn't. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Dec 9 14:37:32 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 14:37:32 +0000 Subject: Dec. 14th in Boston: An open forum on data formats Message-ID: <439996AC.4000405@ubuntu.com> If any Ubuntu folks have some free time in the Boston, MA area next week, they might consider stopping by at: "An Open Forum on the Future of Electronic Data Formats for the Commonwealth" December 14, 2005, 10:00 AM – Noon Senate Reading Room, State House Hosted by: Joint Committee on Economic Development and Emerging Technologies I'm not sure we're ready to promote Ubuntu as highly accessible platform just yet, but it should be interesting to hear what people's views are on this out there in the real world :) More details: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/korn?entry=an_open_forum_on_the - Henrik From mhz.chile at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 18:27:11 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 15:27:11 -0300 Subject: Dec. 14th in Boston: An open forum on data formats In-Reply-To: <439996AC.4000405@ubuntu.com> References: <439996AC.4000405@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <720dc91f0512091027l3f7abc40n11cffc93d49131e4@mail.gmail.com> is anyone attending? -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. "Hell is repeating someone else's mistakes" (JPS) [Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales o acentos para evitar conflictos de lectura entre sistemas] [En smilar contexto, evitemos enviar archivos .doc, .ppt o .xls. Intentemos enviar solo formatos libres y mas livianos, como lo son .txt, .html, .pdf, .odt, etc.] From mhz.chile at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 18:41:15 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 15:41:15 -0300 Subject: Umeet possible talks http://umeet.uninet.edu/ Message-ID: <720dc91f0512091041l3b12823by59768f765f86b75a@mail.gmail.com> Any of the listers have some material to subscribe a talk about this team's objectives? If so, please send an email ASAP to umeet at uninet.edu Oliver and Daniel are already booked for a talk (Edubuntu and Ubuntu Devel respectively) Myabe the mail could be CCed to cesar at uninet.edu , the person I contacted to present a talk, too (about Institue of Free Technology for Latinamerica, but I doubt I'll be able to present it.. time is killing me) -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. "Hell is repeating someone else's mistakes" (JPS) [Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales o acentos para evitar conflictos de lectura entre sistemas] [En smilar contexto, evitemos enviar archivos .doc, .ppt o .xls. Intentemos enviar solo formatos libres y mas livianos, como lo son .txt, .html, .pdf, .odt, etc.] From marvin.nospam at gmail.com Sun Dec 11 10:41:15 2005 From: marvin.nospam at gmail.com (Marvin Raaijmakers) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:41:15 +0100 Subject: keyTouch Message-ID: <1134297676.7241.16.camel@server.lan> Hello, I think it is a good idea to put keyTouch in Ubuntu. KeyTouch is a program which allows you to easily configure the extra function keys (which also improve accessibility) of your keyboard. It is the first and only program of its kind that works perfectly together with kernel 2.6. Why keyTouch is "better" than other programs of its kind, you can read at: http://keytouch.sf.net/ I and users of my program hope that we can configure the extra function keys, using keyTouch, in Ubuntu Dapper Drake. Cheers, Marvin Raaijmakers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Sun Dec 11 12:19:22 2005 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:19:22 +0100 Subject: keyTouch In-Reply-To: <1134297676.7241.16.camel@server.lan> References: <1134297676.7241.16.camel@server.lan> Message-ID: <1134303562.9000.1.camel@localhost> Hello, Am Sonntag, den 11.12.2005, 11:41 +0100 schrieb Marvin Raaijmakers: > Why keyTouch is "better" than other programs of its kind, you can read > at: http://keytouch.sf.net/ I added it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/NewSoftware - hope I'll find time soon. Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Dec 12 11:13:24 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:13:24 +0000 Subject: detailed review of GOK Message-ID: <439D5B54.4070200@ubuntu.com> Hi all, I've written up a fairly detailed review of GOK here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Reviews/GOK It is meant partially as an introduction to those who don't know the program, but mainly as a critical look that can hopefully stimulate discussion and further development. - Henrik Ubuntu Accessibility Team From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Dec 12 12:03:04 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:03:04 +0000 Subject: detailed review of GOK In-Reply-To: <439D6130.1090006@sun.com> References: <439D5B54.4070200@ubuntu.com> <439D6130.1090006@sun.com> Message-ID: <439D66F8.6090009@ubuntu.com> Bill Haneman wrote: > Thanks for that detailed review. I do agree that many of your > problems seem to have stemmed from integration/configuration issues, > or missing understanding of some issues unique to GOK. That's probably true. So this process will help us at Ubuntu to configure GOK better and possible help the GOK project present the configuration of options in a way that is simpler for users to understand. > In a number of cases, there are dependencies which no client program > attempting to do what GOK is doing can avoid. StickyKeys is a case in > point; it is not technically feasible to implement sticky-keys-like > functionality in the client alone. Is that because we are talking about a very general implementation that can feed any key combination (Ctrl-Alt-X) to any part of the desktop? I guess just providing for upper case ( and [ * & etc.) would be easier (but not as useful). > Likewise, it is not technically possible to make a reliable > point-and-click onscreen keyboard using the system core pointer, using > today's X server and widget toolkits. Hm. I seem to remember using GTKeyboard some time ago on a tablet PC with much less fuss. I think that is GTK1 though, and probably won't compile with Gnome 2. - Henrik From Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM Mon Dec 12 11:38:24 2005 From: Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM (Bill Haneman) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:38:24 +0000 Subject: detailed review of GOK In-Reply-To: <439D5B54.4070200@ubuntu.com> References: <439D5B54.4070200@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <439D6130.1090006@sun.com> Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Hi all, > > I've written up a fairly detailed review of GOK here: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Reviews/GOK > > It is meant partially as an introduction to those who don't know the > program, but mainly as a critical look that can hopefully stimulate > discussion and further development. Hi Henrik! Thanks for that detailed review. I do agree that many of your problems seem to have stemmed from integration/configuration issues, or missing understanding of some issues unique to GOK. I disagree with some of your assessments, as no doubt you would anticipate. I look forward to clarifying some of them. In a number of cases, there are dependencies which no client program attempting to do what GOK is doing can avoid. StickyKeys is a case in point; it is not technically feasible to implement sticky-keys-like functionality in the client alone. Likewise, it is not technically possible to make a reliable point-and-click onscreen keyboard using the system core pointer, using today's X server and widget toolkits. Please contact me directly about how I can help with the Wiki. best regards, Bill > > - Henrik > Ubuntu Accessibility Team > > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list > gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list From Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM Mon Dec 12 12:47:59 2005 From: Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM (Bill Haneman) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:47:59 +0000 Subject: detailed review of GOK In-Reply-To: <439D66F8.6090009@ubuntu.com> References: <439D5B54.4070200@ubuntu.com> <439D6130.1090006@sun.com> <439D66F8.6090009@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <439D717F.5080603@sun.com> Hi Henrik: The reason that StickyKeys is needed is not only because of general key combinations like the one you mention (Control-Alt-X) but also because of the interaction with CapsLock, etc. In general the only way to accurately reflect what the X server will do with key events is to ask the x server, so the client application can't do a good job of simulating the real physical keyboard without StickyKeys. I suppose a "mostly works" equivalent could be provided without StickyKeys, but it would not work with all applications and the resulting bugs would be very confusing to explain to the user. Since XKB and StickyKeys are available on virtually every X platform now, it makes sense to just require it. However, the sticky keys notification dialog still makes sense IMO, because any client which causes the user's physical keyboard to behave differently should probably let the user know about it. >> In a number of cases, there are dependencies which no client program >> attempting to do what GOK is doing can avoid. StickyKeys is a case >> in point; it is not technically feasible to implement >> sticky-keys-like functionality in the client alone. > > Is that because we are talking about a very general implementation > that can feed any key combination (Ctrl-Alt-X) to any part of the > desktop? I guess just providing for upper case ( and [ * & etc.) would > be easier (but not as useful). > >> Likewise, it is not technically possible to make a reliable >> point-and-click onscreen keyboard using the system core pointer, >> using today's X server and widget toolkits. > > Hm. I seem to remember using GTKeyboard some time ago on a tablet PC > with much less fuss. I think that is GTK1 though, and probably won't > compile with Gnome 2. I think you would find that GTKeyboard acted oddly or failed to work at all with certain key combinations. For instance, if you invoke a menu using a keyboard shortcut, GTKeyboard would stop working; there are many similar situations where a simple point-and-click keyboard using the core pointer is bound to fail. There are two reasons; in some cases the pointer will be grabbed by another application, making "dwell mode" useless and causing point-and-click mode to behave oddly; and secondly, clicking a mouse button causes a number of desktop features to change state, for instance StickyKeys resets on mouse click, menus may un-post, etc. etc. If all you are doing is clicking on alphanumeric characters in a text field, things will "mostly work", but if you are using non-alphanumeric keys, keyboard shortcuts, or posting menus, things will start to act strange if you are using the "system core pointer" to interact with any onscreen keyboard on the X Windows system. Bill > > - Henrik > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list > gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list From david.bolter at utoronto.ca Mon Dec 12 14:46:16 2005 From: david.bolter at utoronto.ca (david.bolter at utoronto.ca) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:46:16 -0500 Subject: detailed review of GOK In-Reply-To: <439D717F.5080603@sun.com> References: <439D5B54.4070200@ubuntu.com> <439D6130.1090006@sun.com> <439D66F8.6090009@ubuntu.com> <439D717F.5080603@sun.com> Message-ID: <1134398776.439d8d3830db4@webmail.utoronto.ca> Hi Bill, Henrik... I have minor comments: Quoting Bill Haneman : > Hi Henrik: > > The reason that StickyKeys is needed is not only because of general key > combinations like the one you mention (Control-Alt-X) but also because > of the interaction with CapsLock, etc. In general the only way to > accurately reflect what the X server will do with key events is to ask > the x server, so the client application can't do a good job of > simulating the real physical keyboard without StickyKeys. I suppose a > "mostly works" equivalent could be provided without StickyKeys, but it > would not work with all applications and the resulting bugs would be > very confusing to explain to the user. Since XKB and StickyKeys are > available on virtually every X platform now, it makes sense to just > require it. However, the sticky keys notification dialog still makes > sense IMO, because any client which causes the user's physical keyboard > to behave differently should probably let the user know about it. > It makes sense to me too, but we don't count Bill ;-) We're too deep inside. > >> In a number of cases, there are dependencies which no client program > >> attempting to do what GOK is doing can avoid. StickyKeys is a case > >> in point; it is not technically feasible to implement > >> sticky-keys-like functionality in the client alone. > > > > Is that because we are talking about a very general implementation > > that can feed any key combination (Ctrl-Alt-X) to any part of the > > desktop? I guess just providing for upper case ( and [ * & etc.) would > > be easier (but not as useful). > > > >> Likewise, it is not technically possible to make a reliable > >> point-and-click onscreen keyboard using the system core pointer, > >> using today's X server and widget toolkits. > > > > Hm. I seem to remember using GTKeyboard some time ago on a tablet PC > > with much less fuss. I think that is GTK1 though, and probably won't > > compile with Gnome 2. > > I think you would find that GTKeyboard acted oddly or failed to work at > all with certain key combinations. For instance, if you invoke a menu > using a keyboard shortcut, GTKeyboard would stop working; there are many > similar situations where a simple point-and-click keyboard using the > core pointer is bound to fail. There are two reasons; in some cases > the pointer will be grabbed by another application, making "dwell mode" > useless and causing point-and-click mode to behave oddly; and secondly, > clicking a mouse button causes a number of desktop features to change > state, for instance StickyKeys resets on mouse click, menus may un-post, > etc. etc. > > If all you are doing is clicking on alphanumeric characters in a text > field, things will "mostly work", but if you are using non-alphanumeric > keys, keyboard shortcuts, or posting menus, things will start to act > strange if you are using the "system core pointer" to interact with any > onscreen keyboard on the X Windows system. > I confirm the problems faced with using the system core pointer. Overcoming the problems has caused a great deal of developer pain. Henrik, if you and ubuntu could help improve the gok feedback (dialog) -- to make it less confusing that would be very welcome. cheers, David > Bill > > > > > - Henrik > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list > > gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list > > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list > gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list > From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Dec 12 16:23:20 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:23:20 +0000 Subject: detailed review of GOK In-Reply-To: <1134398776.439d8d3830db4@webmail.utoronto.ca> References: <439D5B54.4070200@ubuntu.com> <439D6130.1090006@sun.com> <439D66F8.6090009@ubuntu.com> <439D717F.5080603@sun.com> <1134398776.439d8d3830db4@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <439DA3F8.1050203@ubuntu.com> david.bolter at utoronto.ca wrote: > It makes sense to me too, but we don't count Bill ;-) We're too deep inside. > Well, exactly. Now that I've had it explained, I see it too, but I was wearing my no nonsense user advocate hat when writing that. I'm not trying to be unreasonably controversial, just question certain elements of the design. Of course a bit of controversy does get you on OSnews: http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=12942 :) Which IMO can only be good for our niche sector. I'll be having a go a Dasher next :) The Sticky Keys is probably the least problematic of those dialogues, the main problem really was that you got 3 in a row which just makes it seem broken. Perhaps it could all be combined into a single information window (that would change depending on what was being displayed, obviously). I also agree that when Sticky Keys gets enabled the user should be notified. I've just spoken with Colin Watson, our Installer, Live CD and UbuntuExpress guy, and we are looking at the possibility of having a boot option where you start the OS with AT support enabled by default. That should take care of some more of these issues. > I confirm the problems faced with using the system core pointer. Overcoming the > problems has caused a great deal of developer pain. Henrik, if you and ubuntu > could help improve the gok feedback (dialog) -- to make it less confusing that > would be very welcome. > Sure, I'll do some initial sketching of ideas and then pass it around for feedback. btw, is there any documentation on how to write custom keyboard layouts. That's also something I'd like to have a look at doing. - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Dec 13 13:16:15 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:16:15 +0000 Subject: Ubuntu Express Message-ID: <439EC99F.5080800@ubuntu.com> Hi List, I've spoken with our install wizard, Colin, about what accessibility features we might be able to include in the new Ubuntu Express system. I've written up some ideas resulting from our talk in the Wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/GnomeUserInterface/Accessibility I'm not sure about the boot setting grouping I have chosen, specifically if blind and low vision cases should be separated out. Both would start Gnopernicus, but presumably in different modes. Anyway feedback is welcome :) - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Dec 13 14:47:13 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:47:13 +0000 Subject: Gnome default themes Message-ID: <439EDEF1.8030001@ubuntu.com> Hello Lists, I'd like to suggest that we put at least one high visibility theme in with the default Gnome set of themes so that it is installed with all systems. If we go for just one, then I think it should be one that is useful for the largest number of people, so one with large print. The large print may be too big for some users, but it will at least allow them to use the system long enough to install a larger theme selection and tweak settings. I'm also CCing in the accessibility list, and I would specifically like to get some feedback from those with knowledge of low-vision issues. If we have to pick one of those themes, which one is better for more people: 'high contrast' or 'high contrast inverse'? One reason this is especially important now is that we are looking at options for creating an accessible Live CD and Ubuntu Express install path (using a boot parameter). If one of the default themes were accessible, then we could run a low-vision session right from first boot, without having to put an extra 4MB (or whatever it is) of themes on the CD. See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/GnomeUserInterface/Accessibility I'd also like to push this change up into the Gnome 2.14 upstream if possible. Some of the current default themes are looking rather dated IMHO (Crux, Ocean Dream, etc.). Are these kept around for backwards compatibility reasons? There is a range of slick themes on art.gnome.org that would be good alternatives. - Henrik From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Tue Dec 13 16:13:21 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:13:21 -0500 Subject: Gnome default themes Message-ID: Hello, As a low vision user I typically pop into Large Print Mode or High Contrast Inverse where available, especially if screen is small and resolution is small. I have not been able to locate a study on a website where High Contrast vs High Contrast Inverse are reviewed by low vision users for usability. Different eye conditions present different challenges. Most people look at Inverse or even Low Contrast and have no idea how those themes could be more accessible. I would recommend if only one is available becuase of size limitations, that make sure you grab the High Contrast Large Print or High Contrast Inverse Large Print. You may have already decided this, but I wanted to be clear the Large Print also includes automatic font markup which is helpful. Looking forward to more of the discussion! God Bless, Jason G. Mathew 11:28-30 >Hello Lists, > >I'd like to suggest that we put at least one high visibility theme in with >the default Gnome set of themes so that it is installed with all systems. >If we go for just one, then I think it should be one that is useful for the >largest number of people, so one with large print. The large print may be >too big for some users, but it will at least allow them to use the system >long enough to install a larger theme selection and tweak settings. > >I'm also CCing in the accessibility list, and I would specifically like to >get some feedback from those with knowledge of low-vision issues. If we >have to pick one of those themes, which one is better for more people: >'high contrast' or 'high contrast inverse'? > >One reason this is especially important now is that we are looking at >options for creating an accessible Live CD and Ubuntu Express install path >(using a boot parameter). If one of the default themes were accessible, >then we could run a low-vision session right from first boot, without >having to put an extra 4MB (or whatever it is) of themes on the CD. See: >https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/GnomeUserInterface/Accessibility > >I'd also like to push this change up into the Gnome 2.14 upstream if >possible. Some of the current default themes are looking rather dated IMHO >(Crux, Ocean Dream, etc.). Are these kept around for backwards >compatibility reasons? There is a range of slick themes on art.gnome.org >that would be good alternatives. > >- Henrik > >-- >Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Dec 13 17:05:04 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:05:04 +0000 Subject: Gnome default themes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <439EFF40.8000900@ubuntu.com> Jason Grieves wrote: > I would recommend if only one is available becuase of size > limitations, that make sure you grab the High Contrast Large Print or > High Contrast Inverse Large Print. You may have already decided this, > but I wanted to be clear the Large Print also includes automatic font > markup which is helpful. Yes, I've seen that, though I noticed that this doesn't get followed up by all applications. I guess these are bugs that we should chart and report upstream. It would be nice if when you had chosen the large fonts theme, pages in Firefox would also appear in large print. When I say that we should perhaps pick one option, it is (a) because of space constraints on the CD, but also because (b) in the case of the Live CD we want it to come up when starting X with a sensible default and not require 5 separate boot options. It's only needed to get you through the Ubuntu Express install sequence and then you can install more themes later that suit you better. Also (c) in my opinion it is more tidy to have one fairly sensible choice than too many. If there is much difference in usability between black-on-white and inverse, I would recommend the former as it seems to integrate better with applications (we should probably do a more thorough investigation of this on the wiki). - Henrik From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Wed Dec 14 08:11:14 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:11:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20954] Font changes do not get reverted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051214081114.A204E303C043@macquarie.ubuntu.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20954 Ubuntu | gnome-control-center daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |ubuntu- | |accessibility at lists.ubuntu.c | |om Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEEDINFO Component|gnome-themes |gnome-control-center ------- Additional Comments From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com 2005-12-14 08:11 UTC ------- Thanks for your bug report. Which version of Ubuntu and gnome-control-center do you use? Do you, by chance, remember which themes you were trying to use? I did the same and all changes were reverted nicely. Does a restart of the gnome-session help? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Wed Dec 14 10:13:59 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:13:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20954] Font changes do not get reverted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051214101359.789CC303C043@macquarie.ubuntu.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20954 Ubuntu | gnome-control-center ------- Additional Comments From henrik at gotadsl.co.uk 2005-12-14 10:13 UTC ------- Sorry, will provide more detail :) The problem occurs with the breezy theme system. I've just now confirmeed it with a clean install (in VMware). Steps to reproduce: 1. Changing between any of the default themes is fine, no problems 2. Install gnome-accessibility-themes with apt/synaptic 3. Changking to any of the access themes is fine, changing back is also fine 4. But: on the two 'Large Print' themes there is a notification that this theme has additional font settings, which you can optionally apply by clicking a button (and this is arguably the most useful part of these themes). Clicking that button makes all the desktop fonts and application menu bars very large. Great! 5. Changing back to Human or Clearlooks changes colours and icons, but leaves the fonts very large, which makes it seem broken. I've reported it as a bug in gnome-control-center rather than in gnome-accessibility-themes because I guess the control center should alow for a way to recover from obscure theme settings. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 14 10:25:40 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:25:40 +0000 Subject: Reporting AT bugs Message-ID: <439FF324.9080506@ubuntu.com> As I go through the various AT applications I find various things that I would consider to be bugs. Some of these are related to several applications at once and most of them are upstream bugs. One example is an issue I have found with the high-viz themes. They generally, play nicely with the gnome desktop, though some icons in the menu (like gedit) are missing. It gets worse with other applications though. OpenOffice and Firefox do not have matching icons and in Firefox, the text turns an unreadable colour sometimes. What is the best way of reporting these? Should these go straight into the Ubuntu bug tracker, or should they go upstream to Gnome/OOo/Ff, or all of the above? I think reporting AT-related bugs is a good way forward generally on this. I guess we should also try to track these in a sensible way in the wiki. It would be cool if we had an AT bug-squad who could report bugs upstream and track them as appropriate. Any volunteers for that sub-project? I think this should at least go on our 'How can I help' page (when we set one up). - Henrik A n00b bug-reporter From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Wed Dec 14 10:52:04 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:52:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20954] Font changes do not get reverted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051214105204.65082303C03C@macquarie.ubuntu.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20954 Ubuntu | gnome-control-center daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- URL| |http://bugs.gnome.org/show_b | |ug.cgi?id=324053 Status|NEEDINFO |UPSTREAM ------- Additional Comments From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com 2005-12-14 10:52 UTC ------- Thanks for the information. I could reproduce it on Dapper. I forwarded the issue upstream: http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324053 -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 14 10:58:24 2005 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:58:24 +0100 Subject: Reporting AT bugs In-Reply-To: <439FF324.9080506@ubuntu.com> References: <439FF324.9080506@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1134557904.28009.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi everybody, thanks Henrik, for pointing this out. Am Mittwoch, den 14.12.2005, 10:25 +0000 schrieb Henrik Nilsen Omma: > What is the best way of reporting these? Should these go straight into > the Ubuntu bug tracker, or should they go upstream to Gnome/OOo/Ff, or > all of the above? I think reporting AT-related bugs is a good way > forward generally on this. I guess we should also try to track these in > a sensible way in the wiki. I think it's a sensible approach, to report them upstream and keep track of them in the wiki. We could even add the mailing list as a CC on the bugs, so everybody has the chance to fix the wiki status entry with a few clicks. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Status might be a good place for this. If you identify something, which could be an easy fix or a you think we should have a different default setting, that's something, where I or Sebastien can help, in the other cases we most likely forward the bug upstream. Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Dec 14 17:36:23 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:36:23 -0500 Subject: Reporting AT bugs Message-ID: Hi, I have found much success with reporting bugs directly to product. For example my Firefox bug supposedly has some patches from some Sun folks, which I do not think I would have found by reporting directly to Ubuntu. I like the idea of keeping track of the bugs via Wiki or CC'ing the list. Possible to setup ubuntu-accessibility-bugs at lists.ubuntu.com ? I am trying to keep records of accessiblity in all products and their assosciated bugs. I just don't know if we want the ubuntu-accessibility list getting all of these bug requests, especially since I am reporting small accessiblity bugs in gtk, etc. God Bless, Jason G. Mathew 11:28-30 >Hi everybody, > >thanks Henrik, for pointing this out. > >Am Mittwoch, den 14.12.2005, 10:25 +0000 schrieb Henrik Nilsen Omma: > > What is the best way of reporting these? Should these go straight into > > the Ubuntu bug tracker, or should they go upstream to Gnome/OOo/Ff, or > > all of the above? I think reporting AT-related bugs is a good way > > forward generally on this. I guess we should also try to track these in > > a sensible way in the wiki. > >I think it's a sensible approach, to report them upstream and keep track >of them in the wiki. We could even add the mailing list as a CC on the >bugs, so everybody has the chance to fix the wiki status entry with a >few clicks. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Status might be a good >place for this. > >If you identify something, which could be an easy fix or a you think we >should have a different default setting, that's something, where I or >Sebastien can help, in the other cases we most likely forward the bug >upstream. > >Have a nice day, > Daniel ><< signature.asc >> >-- >Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Wed Dec 14 17:49:21 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:49:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20954] Font changes do not get reverted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051214174921.3EEEA303C043@macquarie.ubuntu.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20954 Ubuntu | gnome-control-center daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- URL|http://bugs.gnome.org/show_b|http://bugzilla.gnome.org/sh |ug.cgi?id=324053 |ow_bug.cgi?id=104913 ------- Additional Comments From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com 2005-12-14 17:49 UTC ------- Seems to have been filed before: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104913 -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 14 17:52:25 2005 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:52:25 +0100 Subject: Reporting AT bugs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1134582746.5085.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi everybody, Am Mittwoch, den 14.12.2005, 12:36 -0500 schrieb Jason Grieves: > I just don't know if we want the ubuntu-accessibility list getting all of > these bug requests, especially since I am reporting small accessiblity bugs > in gtk, etc. What do you think of just trying it that way until somebody says "This is unbearable!"? I like the idea of making it easy for all of us to follow up on a bug quickly. I find signing up for two mailing lists a bit cumbersome. Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Dec 14 19:33:41 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:33:41 -0500 Subject: Reporting AT bugs In-Reply-To: <1134582746.5085.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Sounds good to me. I have bugs pending. I will be CC'ing list on the ones I think are significant. Or Should I just throw the list on every accessibility bug? God Bless, Jason G. Mathew 11:28-30 >Hi everybody, > >Am Mittwoch, den 14.12.2005, 12:36 -0500 schrieb Jason Grieves: > > I just don't know if we want the ubuntu-accessibility list getting all >of > > these bug requests, especially since I am reporting small accessiblity >bugs > > in gtk, etc. > >What do you think of just trying it that way until somebody says "This >is unbearable!"? I like the idea of making it easy for all of us to >follow up on a bug quickly. > >I find signing up for two mailing lists a bit cumbersome. > >Have a nice day, > Daniel > ><< signature.asc >> From pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr Wed Dec 14 19:49:54 2005 From: pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr (guy pereira santo) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:49:54 +0000 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?synth=E8se?= vocale et braille Message-ID: <1134589794.3608.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> pourrait-on avoir une accessibilité pour aveugles sur edubuntu en français merci A+ From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 14 20:00:42 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:00:42 +0000 Subject: Reporting AT bugs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43A079EA.9030305@ubuntu.com> Jason Grieves wrote: > Sounds good to me. I have bugs pending. I will be CC'ing list on the > ones I think are significant. Or Should I just throw the list on > every accessibility bug? Um, I guess this might increase the email traffic quite a bit with time as everyone CCs all bugs, and all replies to those generate an email (I personally try to reduce email noise ...). To reduce the traffic again we would have to hunt down all those bugs and remove the CC. If we set up a dedicated email address somewhere (ubuntu-accessibility-bugs at gmail.com?) we could forward that to the list for now and we could switch it off if it becomes too much or we find a better solution. This sounds like a feature request for launchpad really. We should have a bugs email address at launchpad that we could place in the CC field of bug trackers all over the web. I know that Malone is supposed to help track upstream bugs, but I'm not sure it's as ceasy as just adding an address to the CC field. I'll check the Launchpad feature requests and suggest it if I don't see anything similar. There is a macro in Moin that let's you email stuff to a wiki page, but that would inflate RecentChanges a great deal if all teams started doing this. - Henrik From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Dec 14 20:21:12 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:21:12 -0500 Subject: Firefox accessibility updates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello all, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317213 Tracks my success with Firefox 1.5 with screen magnificatoin. Currently I am working on real testing scenarios for full screen magnification functoinality. There have been some major road blocks but I am getting through them. The two patches fixed most of the focus issues for Firefox and magnificatoin problems. Firefox 1.5 also introduced a much more accessible environment for screen reading in Linux. Jason Grieves From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 14 20:43:54 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:43:54 +0000 Subject: Reporting AT bugs In-Reply-To: <43A079EA.9030305@ubuntu.com> References: <43A079EA.9030305@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <43A0840A.2090209@ubuntu.com> Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > This sounds like a feature request for launchpad really. We should > have a bugs email address at launchpad that we could place in the CC > field of bug trackers all over the web. I know that Malone is supposed > to help track upstream bugs, but I'm not sure it's as ceasy as just > adding an address to the CC field. I'll check the Launchpad feature > requests and suggest it if I don't see anything similar. OK, I've added the request as a comment in Malone now (to an existing bug): https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/1208 - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Dec 15 11:37:44 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:37:44 +0000 Subject: Testing plan Message-ID: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> I'm setting up a structured testing matrix for basic desktop tasks across a few Generic User Descriptions (GUDs). Note: most of the ideas and categories for this are borrowed from the Gnome Sanity Test Suite: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/sanity-testing/index.html I've set up a sample test scheme here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Testing with the Gnome GUDs (+1) and some sample tests. I've given each GUD a simple alpha numeric code that makes it easier to refer to and list in tables. These codes might also be used as Live CD boot codes. I'd like to make the general testing fairly self-explanatory so volunteers can easily jump in and contribute. The specific assistive technology tests/reviews will be more detailed (like the GOK one). We will set up a 'How can I help?' page once there is a bit more useful content in our wiki, and so the testing section is one place where we can point people. I've listed 10 test names in the table, though the details of each still needs to be written. Feel free to add test cases, though I feel that we should keep the number moderate, so that the test have a chance of getting done. The Gnome page has 38 distinct tests ATM, which may be a bit too many for us at this stage. In addition to symbols representing whether or not the test passes, I've also added a code to specify that a certain assistive application is required to complete the task for a given user group (Dasher, GOK, Gnopernicus). This assumes that these applications can be started by a given user group and that they work as expected. I'm copying the gnome accessibility list because I think it would be good if we coordinate our testing a bit, and also to ask for input from your past experiences (sorry for the added traffic). This is a work in progress, so feedback is welcome :) Once we agree on the general structure and have tests defined, I'll post on the Ubuntu user lists and forum to ask for testers. Cheers, Henrik From Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM Thu Dec 15 11:47:24 2005 From: Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM (Bill Haneman) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:47:24 +0000 Subject: Testing plan In-Reply-To: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> References: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <43A157CC.7020005@sun.com> Thanks Henrik: I would like to remind members of this list to read the accessibility testing documents, including a sanity test suite, which are posted online at the Gnome Accessibility Project pages. http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/testing/ and http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/sanity-testing/ Thanks and best regards, Bill Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > > I'm setting up a structured testing matrix for basic desktop tasks > across a few Generic User Descriptions (GUDs). Note: most of the ideas > and categories for this are borrowed from the Gnome Sanity Test Suite: > http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/sanity-testing/index.html > I've set up a sample test scheme here: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Testing with the Gnome GUDs (+1) > and some sample tests. I've given each GUD a simple alpha numeric code > that makes it easier to refer to and list in tables. These codes might > also be used as Live CD boot codes. > > I'd like to make the general testing fairly self-explanatory so > volunteers can easily jump in and contribute. The specific assistive > technology tests/reviews will be more detailed (like the GOK one). We > will set up a 'How can I help?' page once there is a bit more useful > content in our wiki, and so the testing section is one place where we > can point people. > > I've listed 10 test names in the table, though the details of each > still needs to be written. Feel free to add test cases, though I feel > that we should keep the number moderate, so that the test have a > chance of getting done. The Gnome page has 38 distinct tests ATM, > which may be a bit too many for us at this stage. > > In addition to symbols representing whether or not the test passes, > I've also added a code to specify that a certain assistive application > is required to complete the task for a given user group (Dasher, GOK, > Gnopernicus). This assumes that these applications can be started by a > given user group and that they work as expected. > > I'm copying the gnome accessibility list because I think it would be > good if we coordinate our testing a bit, and also to ask for input > from your past experiences (sorry for the added traffic). > > This is a work in progress, so feedback is welcome :) Once we agree > on the general structure and have tests defined, I'll post on the > Ubuntu user lists and forum to ask for testers. > > Cheers, > > Henrik > _______________________________________________ > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list > gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list From Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM Thu Dec 15 11:48:47 2005 From: Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM (Bill Haneman) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:48:47 +0000 Subject: Testing plan In-Reply-To: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> References: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <43A1581F.9030307@sun.com> Henrik/All: Sorry for re-posting the URI for the sanity-test documents, I see now that you referenced them inline. Thanks a bunch! I look forward to reading your test scheme. Bill From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Thu Dec 15 11:58:21 2005 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:58:21 +0100 Subject: Testing plan In-Reply-To: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> References: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20051215115821.GT9230@implementation.labri.fr> Hi, Just to let people know about the Accessibility Application Development HOWTO at TLDP: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Accessibility-Dev-HOWTO/ I guess such documentations should get merged somehow, and hosted at a common place, such as a11y.org Regards, Samuel From Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM Thu Dec 15 12:52:45 2005 From: Bill.Haneman at Sun.COM (Bill Haneman) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:52:45 +0000 Subject: [Accessibility] Re: Testing plan In-Reply-To: <20051215115821.GT9230@implementation.labri.fr> References: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> <20051215115821.GT9230@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <43A1671D.4010303@sun.com> Thanks Samuel, I'll add that link to the 'GAP' pages now. Bill Samuel Thibault wrote: >Hi, > >Just to let people know about the Accessibility Application Development >HOWTO at TLDP: > >http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Accessibility-Dev-HOWTO/ > >I guess such documentations should get merged somehow, and hosted at a >common place, such as a11y.org > >Regards, >Samuel >_______________________________________________ >Accessibility mailing list >Accessibility at freestandards.org >http://mail.freestandards.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility > > From david.bolter at utoronto.ca Thu Dec 15 14:08:41 2005 From: david.bolter at utoronto.ca (David Bolter) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:08:41 -0500 Subject: Testing plan In-Reply-To: <20051215115821.GT9230@implementation.labri.fr> References: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> <20051215115821.GT9230@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <43A178E9.7070700@utoronto.ca> We are happy to add authors to: http://larswiki.atrc.utoronto.ca/wiki I'm not sure what is best in terms of coalescing all this related information. It seems that many distro's, companies, and some applications have their own location for documentation and bug reports, test suites, and forums. It can be detrimental IMO. I'm not exactly sure what function the larswiki should serve and we are open to suggestion from the a11y community. cheers, David Samuel Thibault wrote: >Hi, > >Just to let people know about the Accessibility Application Development >HOWTO at TLDP: > >http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Accessibility-Dev-HOWTO/ > >I guess such documentations should get merged somehow, and hosted at a >common place, such as a11y.org > >Regards, >Samuel >_______________________________________________ >gnome-accessibility-list mailing list >gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org >http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list > > -- ~~David Bolter From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Dec 15 16:28:58 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:28:58 +0000 Subject: Testing plan In-Reply-To: <43A178E9.7070700@utoronto.ca> References: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> <20051215115821.GT9230@implementation.labri.fr> <43A178E9.7070700@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43A199CA.7020201@ubuntu.com> David Bolter wrote: > We are happy to add authors to: > http://larswiki.atrc.utoronto.ca/wiki Perhaps you should consider opening it up as an actual wiki. I think that would encourage more people to contribute. I'm involved in running several Moin wikis and we really don't seem to have any problems with spam and such. You might open up most of it and leave a few pages with tighter control for more official stuff. > I'm not sure what is best in terms of coalescing all this related > information. It seems that many distro's, companies, and some > applications have their own location for documentation and bug > reports, test suites, and forums. It can be detrimental IMO. Yes, I agree. Though some of the information like test results are distro specific. I wouldn't feel comfortable about dumping all our Ubuntu-specific ramblings on the Lars wiki and all our bug reports in the Gnome bugzilla. That would probably just annoy those hosting the sites. > I'm not exactly sure what function the larswiki should serve and we > are open to suggestion from the a11y community. Is there any chance we could all set up shop in a common location, like wiki.a11y.org, say? We could have wiki.a11y.org/lars, wiki.a11y.org/gnome, wiki.a11y.org/kde, wiki.a11y.org/ubuntu for the things that need to be separate and then the root location for common stuff. There would be advantages to working in the same physical wiki in that we would see the changes various people were making on a daily basis and could move common content around. We were planning to develop our own content a bit more in our own wiki, and then move the bulk of it on to a dedicated site like access.ubuntu.com, but I am happy to recommend that we go with a common site instead. It feels like esp. now with this push to introduce ODF in MA by 01.01.2007 that this is the time to band together and push things forward :) Thoughts? (I'm CCing the KDE list as well, which I'm not subscribed to ATM. Hope it gets through) - Henrik From david.bolter at utoronto.ca Thu Dec 15 17:05:05 2005 From: david.bolter at utoronto.ca (David Bolter) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:05:05 -0500 Subject: Testing plan In-Reply-To: <43A199CA.7020201@ubuntu.com> References: <43A15588.3010900@ubuntu.com> <20051215115821.GT9230@implementation.labri.fr> <43A178E9.7070700@utoronto.ca> <43A199CA.7020201@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <43A1A241.6090406@utoronto.ca> Henrik, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > David Bolter wrote: > >> We are happy to add authors to: >> http://larswiki.atrc.utoronto.ca/wiki > > Perhaps you should consider opening it up as an actual wiki. I think > that would encourage more people to contribute. I'm involved in > running several Moin wikis and we really don't seem to have any > problems with spam and such. You might open up most of it and leave a > few pages with tighter control for more official stuff. > >> I'm not sure what is best in terms of coalescing all this related >> information. It seems that many distro's, companies, and some >> applications have their own location for documentation and bug >> reports, test suites, and forums. It can be detrimental IMO. > > Yes, I agree. Though some of the information like test results are > distro specific. I wouldn't feel comfortable about dumping all our > Ubuntu-specific ramblings on the Lars wiki and all our bug reports in > the Gnome bugzilla. That would probably just annoy those hosting the > sites. > >> I'm not exactly sure what function the larswiki should serve and we >> are open to suggestion from the a11y community. > > Is there any chance we could all set up shop in a common location, > like wiki.a11y.org, say? We could have wiki.a11y.org/lars, > wiki.a11y.org/gnome, wiki.a11y.org/kde, wiki.a11y.org/ubuntu for the > things that need to be separate and then the root location for common > stuff. There would be advantages to I really like this idea. One question regarding scope... I notice your examples are linux specific. Do you also envision things like wiki.a11y.org/windows or wiki.a11y.org/java or wiki.a11y.org/airlines? > working in the same physical wiki in that we would see the changes > various people were making on a daily basis and could move common > content around. We were planning to develop our own content a bit more > in our own wiki, and then move the bulk of it on to a dedicated site > like access.ubuntu.com, but I am happy to recommend that we go with a > common site instead. > > It feels like esp. now with this push to introduce ODF in MA by > 01.01.2007 that this is the time to band together and push things > forward :) Thoughts? > (I'm CCing the KDE list as well, which I'm not subscribed to ATM. Hope > it gets through) > The sentiment is excellent. > - Henrik > _______________________________________________ > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list > gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list From marvin.nospam at gmail.com Thu Dec 15 18:08:25 2005 From: marvin.nospam at gmail.com (Marvin Raaijmakers) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:08:25 +0100 Subject: keyTouch In-Reply-To: <1134303562.9000.1.camel@localhost> References: <1134297676.7241.16.camel@server.lan> <1134303562.9000.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1134670105.7695.3.camel@server.lan> For creating a packager for keytouch see the packagers howto: http://keytouch.sourceforge.net/keytouch-packagers-howto/ - Marvin Raaijmakers On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 13:19 +0100, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello, > > Am Sonntag, den 11.12.2005, 11:41 +0100 schrieb Marvin Raaijmakers: > > Why keyTouch is "better" than other programs of its kind, you can read > > at: http://keytouch.sf.net/ > > I added it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/NewSoftware - hope > I'll find time soon. > > Have a nice day, > Daniel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Thu Dec 15 22:54:21 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 22:54:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20320] Gnome-mag is not built with the XDamage extensions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051215225421.8EC34303C042@macquarie.ubuntu.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20320 Ubuntu | gnome-mag daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|debzilla at ubuntu.com |daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Status|NEW |ASSIGNED ------- Additional Comments From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com 2005-12-15 22:54 UTC ------- I tried this a couple of times. In Dapper the right half of the screen is just gray, even with the new X update. In Breezy it works though. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From themuso at themuso.com Fri Dec 16 05:57:55 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:57:55 +1100 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. Message-ID: <20051216055754.GA12872@localhost.localdomain> Hi all I think it is about time we started discussing the next meeting time and date. At the end of last meeting, a tentative agreement was made for next Wednesday, 21 December. I ca nstill make a meeting on this day, but I am sure there are many who don't think they can. So I am asking whether we should have a meeting next week, or wait till after the festive season? Regarding the time, I would personally like to request that we rotate/change times every meeting or so, to suit some of us in different timezones. 14:30 UTC is 1:30 AM for me, so earlier, or much later, say 19-20 UTC would also be ok, as that is early morning for me. Thoughts and suggestions regarding meeting time and date are welcome. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Dec 16 10:48:14 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:48:14 +0000 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: <20051216055754.GA12872@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051216055754.GA12872@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43A29B6E.9080408@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > I think it is about time we started discussing the next meeting time and > date. At the end of last meeting, a tentative agreement was made for > next Wednesday, 21 December. I ca nstill make a meeting on this day, but > I am sure there are many who don't think they can. > I would be happy to have a meeting on the 21st, either at 14 or 19 UTC. I could also do Monday or Tuesday that week, while Thursday and Friday become more difficult :) I think it would be great to keep the momentum we have built up going into the new year. I'm not sure there are any major decisions that we have to make (so if some people have to miss it, that shouldn't be very problematic), but there have been some interesting development that I would like to report on. In brief: * We are setting up a structured testing system (please help flesh out the actual test cases) * There is a general buzz in the wider community in conjunction with the MA ODF discussion that we are tapping into - there is an increased level of communication just new between different AT teams, which is great. * The work on Ubuntu Express looks promising. We might get a choice of accessible desktops on the default Live CD! Let's give the dapper Live CDs some serious AT testing! * I'll be continuing my in-depth review series with a closer look at Dasher, and I believe Jason is working on a low-vision desktop one. We might try to get some of these out on the wires every few weeks to raise general interest. Luke: How about a review of the current state of voice synthesis on the CLI? - Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Fri Dec 16 12:00:58 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:00:58 +1100 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: <43A29B6E.9080408@ubuntu.com> References: <20051216055754.GA12872@localhost.localdomain> <43A29B6E.9080408@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20051216120057.GA13994@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 09:48:14PM EST, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Luke Yelavich wrote: > >Hi all > >I think it is about time we started discussing the next meeting time and > >date. At the end of last meeting, a tentative agreement was made for > >next Wednesday, 21 December. I ca nstill make a meeting on this day, but > >I am sure there are many who don't think they can. > > > I would be happy to have a meeting on the 21st, either at 14 or 19 UTC. > I could also do Monday or Tuesday that week, while Thursday and Friday > become more difficult :) Any day is fine with me, so I will let others decide that. :) 19 UTC sounds alright for me as well. > I think it would be great to keep the momentum we have built up going > into the new year. I'm not sure there are any major decisions that we > have to make (so if some people have to miss it, that shouldn't be very > problematic), but there have been some interesting development that I > would like to report on. In brief: > > * We are setting up a structured testing system (please help flesh out > the actual test cases) I will be able to have a better look at this in the next few days. > * There is a general buzz in the wider community in conjunction with > the MA ODF discussion that we are tapping into - there is an increased > level of communication just new between different AT teams, which is great. I have certainly noticed this, as I am on the kde accessibility list, and the GNOME accessibility user and dev lists. > * The work on Ubuntu Express looks promising. We might get a choice of > accessible desktops on the default Live CD! Let's give the dapper Live > CDs some serious AT testing! It seems that no at tools are yet available on the Live CDs. One still needs to install them. > * I'll be continuing my in-depth review series with a closer look at > Dasher, and I believe Jason is working on a low-vision desktop one. We > might try to get some of these out on the wires every few weeks to raise > general interest. Luke: How about a review of the current state of voice > synthesis on the CLI? Ok, I will see what I can do. I am also thinking about doing one for orca when I get a better chance to look at it in more detail, as it is a lot more powerful in terms of screen reading, particularly to do with custom application scripts. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From dh at mailempfang.de Fri Dec 16 12:26:49 2005 From: dh at mailempfang.de (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 13:26:49 +0100 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: <43A29B6E.9080408@ubuntu.com> References: <20051216055754.GA12872@localhost.localdomain> <43A29B6E.9080408@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1134736009.10397.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello, Am Freitag, den 16.12.2005, 10:48 +0000 schrieb Henrik Nilsen Omma: > I would be happy to have a meeting on the 21st, either at 14 or 19 UTC. > I could also do Monday or Tuesday that week, while Thursday and Friday > become more difficult :) These times are fine with me too. I will be busy with the BUG DAY, but I'll surely be available during the times of the meeting. Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From mhz.chile at gmail.com Fri Dec 16 13:48:07 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez Z.) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:48:07 -0300 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: <43A29B6E.9080408@ubuntu.com> References: <20051216055754.GA12872@localhost.localdomain> <43A29B6E.9080408@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1134740888.6840.20.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> Henrik and others, Anytime and date (as long as it is not the 24th or 31st of december) is fine with me, even if my GMT -4 turns to be 03:00 AM or something because I know this will rotate. Also, I would like to thank Henrik for providing so much useful info that has let me be introduced to this accessibility issue that it's been more difficult than i thought, so far. So, I'll continue to follow 'orders' until I can feel I can contribute with something :) (still too ignorant about this) -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. (56+8)7496071 (56+2)3129513 Edubuntu Chile www.tecnocimiento.cl/EdubuntuChile irc.freenode.net | #edubuntu #edubuntu-es [I dream of things that never were and say 'Why Not?'] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Fri Dec 16 18:13:09 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 13:13:09 -0500 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: <43A29B6E.9080408@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I am working on a low vision full magnification review. I have been spending about an hour each day working on best way to work in the environment. This has provided me with some great insight on how to handle current limitations. With some new fixes to Firefox, changes to the way the virtual screens are setup, and gnome-panel changes the environment is very workable. Also with Luke's new compiled gnome-mag packages the included Damage and Fixes extensions help clean/speed up magnification. If anyone wants to test with me, drop me an email. Thanks Jason Grieves >Luke Yelavich wrote: >>Hi all >>I think it is about time we started discussing the next meeting time and >>date. At the end of last meeting, a tentative agreement was made for next >>Wednesday, 21 December. I ca nstill make a meeting on this day, but I am >>sure there are many who don't think they can. >> >I would be happy to have a meeting on the 21st, either at 14 or 19 UTC. I >could also do Monday or Tuesday that week, while Thursday and Friday become >more difficult :) > >I think it would be great to keep the momentum we have built up going into >the new year. I'm not sure there are any major decisions that we have to >make (so if some people have to miss it, that shouldn't be very >problematic), but there have been some interesting development that I would >like to report on. In brief: > >* We are setting up a structured testing system (please help flesh out the >actual test cases) >* There is a general buzz in the wider community in conjunction with the MA >ODF discussion that we are tapping into - there is an increased level of >communication just new between different AT teams, which is great. >* The work on Ubuntu Express looks promising. We might get a choice of >accessible desktops on the default Live CD! Let's give the dapper Live CDs >some serious AT testing! >* I'll be continuing my in-depth review series with a closer look at >Dasher, and I believe Jason is working on a low-vision desktop one. We >might try to get some of these out on the wires every few weeks to raise >general interest. Luke: How about a review of the current state of voice >synthesis on the CLI? > >- Henrik > > >-- >Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From earl.johnson at sun.com Sun Dec 18 20:13:31 2005 From: earl.johnson at sun.com (earl johnson) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:13:31 -0800 Subject: Request for Review: FSG Keyboard Access Specifications Message-ID: <43A5C2EB.2070502@sun.com> December 18, 2005 The Free Standards Group Accessibility Workgroup (FSGA) works to develop standards supporting comprehensive access to information and user interfaces for persons with disabilities on computing platforms which adopt free and open standards (such as Linux, AIX, and Solaris). The FSGA standards process is open to interested members of industry, developer, and consumer communities. Obtaining public comment on our proposed standards before they are finalized is one of the most important steps in our process. Public review helps ensure our standards are both relevant and complete. DETAILS: We are now requesting comment on the following specifications produced by our Keyboard Access Team (FSGA-kbd) [1]. These specifications are expected to become FSG standards in 2006. * Keyboard Access Functional Specification, RC1 This specification defines keyboard access assistive technology features and the functionality an FSG certified platform must provide in support of accessibility. * Generic Assertions for Manual Testing, RC1 This specification describes how to validate that an implementation of the functional specification is correctly implemented. Once these specifications become FSG standards, they will define the keyboard access functionality a user can expect from an FSG certified computer system. HOW TO SEND FEEDBACK: You may respond through bugzilla using the appropriate URL below or by sending email to the address below. The preferred method for receiving feedback is via the web because it automatically logs your feedback in our tracking system without additional human intervention. If possible, only use the email method if you have troubles using the below URLs. See [2] below for guidance on how to Search bugzilla for other's comments. Keyboard Access Functional Specification: http://accessibility.freestandards.org/a11yspecs/kbd/xkbdreview.html Generic Assertions for Manual Testing: http://accessibility.freestandards.org/a11yspecs/kbd/assertsreview.html Review feedback alias and specification [if all else fails]: * accessibility-rfc at freestandards.org * http://accessibility.freestandards.org/a11yspecs/kbd/ REVIEW TIME PERIOD: Please provide your comments on these draft specifications no later than midnight, 24:00 UTC, Wednesday, January 31, 2005. On behalf of FSGA, and especially the FSGA-kbd team, we thank you for your assistance. Earl Johnson, FSGA-KBD Committee Chair Earl.JohnsonSun.COM Janina Sajka, FSGA Chair janinaFreeStandards.Org NOTES: [1] - The following Mousekeys functionality will be removed from the final version of both specifications. It is being removed because it turns out the functionality can not be made user settable. To be removed: "2.2. Pointer step size (aka initial jump)." [2] - Search on the terms "keyboard" or "keyboard generic" to call up a list of all review feedback for the "Keyboard Access Functional Specification" and "Generic Assrtions for Manual Tests" documents respectively. Visit the following page for more Help on how to search the Bugzilla web site. http://bugs.freestandards.org/quicksearch.html From themuso at themuso.com Tue Dec 20 00:13:19 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:13:19 +1100 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: <20051216055754.GA12872@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051216055754.GA12872@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20051220001319.GA16771@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 04:57:55PM EST, Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > I think it is about time we started discussing the next meeting time and > date. At the end of last meeting, a tentative agreement was made for > next Wednesday, 21 December. I ca nstill make a meeting on this day, but > I am sure there are many who don't think they can. > > So I am asking whether we should have a meeting next week, or wait till > after the festive season? > > Regarding the time, I would personally like to request that we > rotate/change times every meeting or so, to suit some of us in different > timezones. 14:30 UTC is 1:30 AM for me, so earlier, or much later, say > 19-20 UTC would also be ok, as that is early morning for me. Wednesday at 19:00 UTC was suggested, which suits me. I also don't remember seeing anybody's objections to this time. So if there are no further objections, I say we make it for Wednesday at 19:00 UTC. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Tue Dec 20 06:04:31 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 00:04:31 -0600 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: <20051220001319.GA16771@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I will second that 19:00 UTC Jason Grieves -----Original Message----- From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Luke Yelavich Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 6:13 PM To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Next team meeting date/time. On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 04:57:55PM EST, Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > I think it is about time we started discussing the next meeting time and > date. At the end of last meeting, a tentative agreement was made for > next Wednesday, 21 December. I ca nstill make a meeting on this day, but > I am sure there are many who don't think they can. > > So I am asking whether we should have a meeting next week, or wait till > after the festive season? > > Regarding the time, I would personally like to request that we > rotate/change times every meeting or so, to suit some of us in different > timezones. 14:30 UTC is 1:30 AM for me, so earlier, or much later, say > 19-20 UTC would also be ok, as that is early morning for me. Wednesday at 19:00 UTC was suggested, which suits me. I also don't remember seeing anybody's objections to this time. So if there are no further objections, I say we make it for Wednesday at 19:00 UTC. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Tue Dec 20 07:49:23 2005 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:49:23 +0100 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: <002701c6052b$3e1ba6d0$0400a8c0@beastjr> References: <002701c6052b$3e1ba6d0$0400a8c0@beastjr> Message-ID: <1135064963.7594.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Am Dienstag, den 20.12.2005, 00:04 -0600 schrieb Jason Grieves: > I will second that 19:00 UTC > > Jason Grieves > -----Original Message----- > Wednesday at 19:00 UTC was suggested, which suits me. I also don't > remember seeing anybody's objections to this time. So if there are no > further objections, I say we make it for Wednesday at 19:00 UTC. I third it - lets go for it. Who writes the reminder? Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Dec 20 09:35:51 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:35:51 +0000 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: <1135064963.7594.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <002701c6052b$3e1ba6d0$0400a8c0@beastjr> <1135064963.7594.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43A7D077.4020006@ubuntu.com> Daniel Holbach wrote: > I third it - lets go for it. Who writes the reminder? All readers of the ubuntu-accessibility list are hereby reminded: Meeting on Wednesday Dec. 12th at 19 UTC See Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda Magically it's already on the Fridge (how does that happen?) - Henrik From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Dec 21 06:34:22 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 01:34:22 -0500 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. Message-ID: See you all tomororw. Attached doc is the start of my full screen magnification review. God Bless, Jason G. Mathew 11:28-30 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: full screen magnification.odt Type: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text Size: 406526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 21 10:30:03 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:30:03 +0000 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43A92EAB.1000804@ubuntu.com> Jason Grieves wrote: > See you all tomororw. Attached doc is the start of my full screen > magnification review. Hey, looks great! I'll read it slowly and try to learn something :) I see you've started on the wikifying; We can all help you with that. Could you upload the images as attachments? or just email the whole lot to me and I can do it. - Henrik From ogra at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 21 10:52:19 2005 From: ogra at ubuntu.com (Oliver Grawert) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:52:19 +0100 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1135162344.19758.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> hi, Am Mittwoch, den 21.12.2005, 01:34 -0500 schrieb Jason Grieves: > See you all tomororw. Attached doc is the start of my full screen > magnification review. could you please put such huge attachments on a webserver (or as attachment on a wikipage) in the future and just put a link in your mail ? many users that read mailing lists are still on dialup connections or have a bandwith cap on their account, ~400k attachments are just to huge for them ... thanks and bless you too... ciao oli -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From jriddell at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 21 11:53:11 2005 From: jriddell at ubuntu.com (Jonathan Riddell) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:53:11 +0000 Subject: [ubuntu-accessibility] Re: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051221115309.GM2242@muse.19inch.net> On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 01:34:22AM -0500, Jason Grieves wrote: > See you all tomororw. Attached doc is the start of my full screen > magnification review. Incidently KDE accessibility developer Gunnar Schmit it working on a really nice looking full screen magnifier based on Xcomposite, it's smooth enlargement works really well. No release date though. Jonathan Riddell From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 21 14:41:00 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:41:00 +0000 Subject: Next team meeting date/time. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43A9697C.2040707@ubuntu.com> Jason, I think it reads well. I guess you have plans to add more content about the applications (firefox, OOo, etc.). Some general thoughts: - Is it possible to take screenshots of split mode or the full mode (where I understand there were some issues with some panels). It might help developers see the issues you are referring to and would also be good for a general audience to actually see how it works (we are planning to post this up on OSnews or somewhere when it's done right?). - You mention ZoomText for Windows. I wonder if you could do a bit more on comparing gnome-mag and zoomtext. When configured perfectly (and/or with the soon to be improved new xorg functionality) how far off is gnome-mag from the state of the art? (think of the way reviewers in HiFi or Auto magazines take critical look at competing options, pretending for a moment that we are not free software advocates). - How does it actually do the zooming? Does it just interpolate up the screen image or does it actually render the fonts in a larger size (which I guess is what ZoomText does in Office). The latter would obviously yield a sharper result. - Dual head: You mentioned that most people don't have two graphics cards, but a growing number of cards now have two outputs, one digital and one analog VGA. I happen to have an LCD screen with a digital input, so I can run that along with an older CRT, both connected to the same card. Even without that, you can get a digital to VGA converter for about £5 so you could run two regular screen off one newish card. You briefly mention that two displays might be the best option; Is that worth looking at more closely? Is the advantage mainly that it would be easier to set up (since you could have at least one display always working), or are two screens better in daily use as well? If someone with low vision is planning a new computer setup is this something they should plan for? Does X and gnome-mag have any advantages over the Windows/ZoomText setup in this regard? - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 21 15:29:41 2005 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:29:41 +0000 Subject: MassGov ODF update Message-ID: <43A974E5.2060200@ubuntu.com> Hi List, I attended a meeting (by phone) organized by the MA IT division on Friday. There were a number of Assistive Technology companies there, plus Sun, IBM, IT Division people and representatives of state emplyees. This meeting was still very much at the stage of putting issues on the table, so not much technical planning was done. There will be another meeting on Jan. 23rd, which should be more technical. For that time I would like to have an overview of which areas (if any) we have better provisions for AT on Linux than on Windows (including when 3rd party commercial tools are used there). Failing that, are there any areas where we could be better with a relatively small amount of work? (the emphasis is on the actual end-user experience, not potentially supperior inferastructure). I've made a start here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Reviews/UbuntuAdvantage - Henrik From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Wed Dec 21 20:00:33 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 20:00:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20320] Gnome-mag is not built with the XDamage extensions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051221200033.9D8AB303C043@macquarie.ubuntu.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20320 Ubuntu | gnome-mag ------- Additional Comments From jasongrieves at hotmail.com 2005-12-21 20:00 UTC ------- (In reply to comment #4) > I tried this a couple of times. In Dapper the right half of the screen is just > gray, even with the new X update. In Breezy it works though. Just did a clean install of dapper a few days ago, with new xorg and Luke's built .deb's. Seemed to run fine over here. Ran in Vmware 5.5 -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Dec 21 21:59:08 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:59:08 -0600 Subject: FW: Next team meeting date/time. Message-ID: Replied under yours -----Original Message----- From: Henrik Nilsen Omma [mailto:henrik at ubuntu.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:41 AM To: Jason Grieves Cc: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Next team meeting date/time. Jason, I think it reads well. I guess you have plans to add more content about the applications (firefox, OOo, etc.). Some general thoughts: - Is it possible to take screenshots of split mode or the full mode (where I understand there were some issues with some panels). It might help developers see the issues you are referring to and would also be good for a general audience to actually see how it works (we are planning to post this up on OSnews or somewhere when it's done right?). yep I can use vmware if the print screen seems to goof up. On my TODO - You mention ZoomText for Windows. I wonder if you could do a bit more on comparing gnome-mag and zoomtext. When configured perfectly (and/or with the soon to be improved new xorg functionality) how far off is gnome-mag from the state of the art? (think of the way reviewers in HiFi or Auto magazines take critical look at competing options, pretending for a moment that we are not free software advocates). That is a good idea. I believe I will get some help with this from a veteran Zoomtext user. We can probably work not this comparison this week. - How does it actually do the zooming? Does it just interpolate up the screen image or does it actually render the fonts in a larger size (which I guess is what ZoomText does in Office). The latter would obviously yield a sharper result. I actually thought it interpolated the screen image. That is the need for smoothing of the images. I haven't had a lot of time in the code but I was under the impression it used some of X zoom to just magnify. Composite definitely renders everything off screen and builds it. This will allow for say changing gnome-themes on the fly. Very cool stuff. - Dual head: You mentioned that most people don't have two graphics cards, but a growing number of cards now have two outputs, one digital and one analog VGA. I happen to have an LCD screen with a digital input, so I can run that along with an older CRT, both connected to the same card. Even without that, you can get a digital to VGA converter for about £5 so you could run two regular screen off one newish card. You briefly mention that two displays might be the best option; Is that worth looking at more closely? Is the advantage mainly that it would be easier to set up (since you could have at least one display always working), or are two screens better in daily use as well? If someone with low vision is planning a new computer setup is this something they should plan for? Does X and gnome-mag have any advantages over the Windows/ZoomText setup in this regard? Will work on this issue more. Perhaps you can do some testing with your idea? I will be working with my Zoomtext vet to see how well it handles multiple screens. The sun folks shared that using 2 vid cards takes some of the load off (though I personally feel the real load is in memory/cpu since they aren't using composite) this will require further testing. Perhaps some graphs? - Henrik Thanks for the valuable input - Jason From bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com Thu Dec 22 13:23:08 2005 From: bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com (bugzilla-daemon at bugzilla.ubuntu.com) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:23:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bug 20739] Vino (vnc) + StickyKeys causes keyboard hangups In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051222132308.79BCF303C042@macquarie.ubuntu.com> Please do not reply to this email. You can add comments at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20739 Ubuntu | vino daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- URL| |http://bugzilla.gnome.org/sh | |ow_bug.cgi?id=324801 Status|NEEDINFO |UPSTREAM ------- Additional Comments From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com 2005-12-22 13:23 UTC ------- I forwarded the issue to the upstream bug tracker: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324801 -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Fri Dec 23 20:14:39 2005 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 14:14:39 -0600 Subject: FW: Serious Startup problems: Ubuntu 5.10 for AMD64 and Gnopernicus Message-ID: Though I would forward to our list to see if anyone can come up with a solution. Never tried a different lang... ~Jason -----Original Message----- From: gnome-accessibility-list-bounces at gnome.org [mailto:gnome-accessibility-list-bounces at gnome.org] On Behalf Of Roland Zitzke Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 6:42 AM To: gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org Subject: Serious Startup problems: Ubuntu 5.10 for AMD64 and Gnopernicus Hi, has anyone successfully run gnopernicus on an Ubuntu "Breezy Badger" (5.10) distribution? I did the following which should be easy to reproduce: * Install Ubuntu 5.10 into a fresh partition. Select German as the system language. * On a shell, do a $ sudo apt-get install gnopernicus * In the Gnome desktop, choose Anwendungen (Applications), then Zubehör (Accessories), then Terminal. This brings up an x terminal shell. * Type $ gnopernicus -s -M -B to enable only the speech module. * After a while I get a speech output "Willkommen zu Gnopernicus" read with an english accent. This lets me assume that I don't have audio problems and the speech synthesizer (Festival) is properly installed. * I Answer "yes" to the question on whether to activate accessibility. * I answer "yes" to the question on whether I want to re-login. * Running gnopernicus again will give a "Willkommen zu Gnopernicus" speech output and show the gnopernicus GUI. * I select "2 Preferences". * I select "1 Speech" This brings up an empty window and the whole desktop does not respond to any keyboard or mouse event anymore. Gnopernicus outputs a number of error messages after startup to the stderr of the shell. I include the full log of these messages - I think the CORBA exception could be the reason for the problems. BTW: I tried to do an $ export LANG=en_US before starting gnopernicus and the only difference is that it will say "welcome to gnopernicus" and after a while: "speech restored" The crash situation remains the same. Any ideas? thanks and regards Roland ********************** * SCREEN READER CORE * ********************** Bonobo accessibility support initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter gnopernicus-Message: Sprachinitialisierung erfolgreich (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot shutup current voice Restarting speech. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot speak with the current voice (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot shutup current voice (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the driver (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Unable to find parameter gnopernicus-Message: Sprachinitialisierung erfolgreich (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot shutup current voice Restarting speech. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot speak with the current voice (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot shutup current voice (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot speak with the current voice (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot shutup current voice (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot speak with the current voice (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Cannot shutup current voice (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the speaker (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Exception Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0' occured. (srcore:9945): gnopernicus-WARNING **: Message : Unable to unref the driver -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT00007.txt URL: From mhz.chile at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 03:08:01 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez Z.) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 00:08:01 -0300 Subject: Merry Christmas to you all! Message-ID: <1135393681.6911.11.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> If you believe or not, have a happy day! -- Best Regards, The Wise Tuxes irc.freenode.net | #edubuntu #edubuntu-es ID #287183 http://counter.li.org [I dream of things that never were and say 'Why Not?'] /!\ Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales para evitar conflictos de lectura con otros lectores de correos. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu Sun Dec 25 22:16:45 2005 From: kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu (Kevin Cole) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 17:16:45 -0500 Subject: GCN News: New Firefox browser bulks up on 508 compliance. Message-ID: <43AF1A4D.8000302@gri.gallaudet.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Government Computer News (GCN) had this story recently, of possible interest to the Accessibility Team: URL: http://www.gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/37705-1.html The Mozilla Foundation has posted a Voluntary Product Accessibility Template (VPAT) [1] for the newest version of its Firefox Web browser, the first Section 508 compliance checklist ever posted for a browser, according to Aaron Leventhal, web accessibility architect for IBM Corp. "Every item [applicable to browsers] is supported 100 percent, or is supported with some exceptions," Leventhal said. The Firefox browser also has a number of features to help disabled users navigate dynamic Web pages?features not available in Microsoft?s Internet Explorer, Leventhal added. ... [1] http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/vpat.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDrxpMh8702ObzMscRAlZvAKC536SIum2HoHRvLS9WhnrfdrwrYQCeM568 aMc69r48kNEc1ip0N00ywx8= =lw4O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mhz.chile at gmail.com Mon Dec 26 15:27:56 2005 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez Z.) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:27:56 -0300 Subject: Ubuntu Artwork/ General Meeting invitation Message-ID: <1135610877.7099.44.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> Hi all, Ubunteros and fans, Artwork Team is trying real hard to make things better and easier for everybody. There are lots of stuff that need to be done, lots of great ideas, lots of enthusiasm but not wisely organized :( There's XFCE work, KDE work, GNOME work, Fluxbox work, WindowMaker work, Enlightenment work, wallpapers, icons, etc. So, if you use or care to customize your desktop, or have ideas to improve art related things, or just want to hear what others have to say.. be there with us in that meeting, please. This is why we invite you to attend next first official meeting. We need to hear from people's ideas and suggestions. We need to work closely one to another (less 'island' work) in a more organized way. Please state your vote to which date is better for you https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeamVoting The current Agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeamMeetingAgendas Detailed list of things we have to organize https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoProposal We can add names and dates here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. (56+8)7496071 (56+2)3129513 Ubuntu Chile LoCo team http://ubuntu-cl.org Edubuntu Chile www.tecnocimiento.cl/EdubuntuChile irc.freenode.net | #edubuntu #edubuntu-es ID #287183 http://counter.li.org [I dream of things that never were and say 'Why Not?'] /!\ Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales para evitar conflictos de lectura con otros lectores de correos. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jgotangco at ubuntu.com Mon Dec 26 16:04:12 2005 From: jgotangco at ubuntu.com (Jerome Gotangco) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 00:04:12 +0800 Subject: Ubuntu Artwork/ General Meeting invitation In-Reply-To: <1135610877.7099.44.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> References: <1135610877.7099.44.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> Message-ID: Guys don't forget we have art.ubuntu.com there's already good work being done in that portal (home grown even!) and we need suggestions to improve it further. This is one area that the art team would excel as well. Cheers, Jerome Gotangco jgotangco at ubuntu.com | jgotangco at gmail.com Mobile: +639196555242 GPG: 0xA97B69A0 From themuso at themuso.com Tue Dec 27 04:06:46 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:06:46 +1100 Subject: Fwd: Speech Dispatcher 0.6 Release Candidate 1 available Message-ID: <20051227040646.GA9560@localhost.localdomain> Would be great to get this into dapper. This is looking to be a real good user-space speech back-end. ----- Forwarded message from Hynek Hanke ----- From: Hynek Hanke To: gap Subject: Speech Dispatcher 0.6 Release Candidate 1 available Speech Dispatcher 0.6rc1 ======================== The Brailcom organization is happy to announce the availability of Speech Dispatcher 0.6 Release Candidate 1 developed as a part of the Free(b)Soft project. This is not a final stable release. We will welcome any help with testing so that we can discover possible bugs before the final release. Please read `What is new' and `NOTES' bellow. * What is Speech Dispatcher? Speech Dispatcher is a device independent layer for speech synthesis, developed with the goal of making the usage of speech synthesis easier for application programmers. It takes care of most of the tasks necessary to solve in speech enabled applications. What is a very high level GUI library to graphics, Speech Dispatcher is to speech synthesis. The architecture of Speech Dispatcher is based on a proven client/server model. The basic means of client communication with Speech Dispatcher is through a TCP connection using the Speech Synthesis Interface Protocol (SSIP). Key Speech Dispatcher features are: - Message priority model that allows multiple simultaneous connections to Speech Dispatcher from one or more clients and tries to provide the user with the most important messages. - Different output modules that talk to different synthesizers so that the programmer doesn't need to care which particular synthesizer is being used. Currently Festival, Flite, Epos and (non-free) Dectalk software are supported. Festival is an advanced Free Software synthesizer supporting various languages. - Client-based configuration allows users to configure different settings for different clients that connect to Speech Dispatcher. - Simple interface for programs written in C, C++ provided through a shared library, Python, Common Lisp and Guile interface. An Elisp library is developed as a sperate project speechd-el. Possibly an interface to any other language can be developed. * What is new in 0.6? - ALSA and experimental NAS sound output supported (apart from OSS) - SSIP implementation now supports events notification and index marking - Improved documentation - spd-say client functionality expanded (stopping, client name setting) - Better performance NOTES: - ALSA audio output is not turned on by default. If you like, go to etc/speech-dispatcher/modules and turn it on for your output module. - If you are using speechd-up, you likely need to upgrade to speechd-up-0.3rc1 due to a bug in speechd-up. Speechd-up 0.3 also brings new capabilities, notably support for the ``Read all'' function in Speakup. - Although not necessary, we highly recommend you to install the new version of festival-freebsoft-utils 0.5 available on http://www.freebsoft.org/pub/projects/festival-freebsoft-utils/ - A Gnome Speech output module was developed which allows you to use Gnopernicus with Speech Dispatcher and is available as gnome-speech-speechd-driver on http://www.freebsoft.org/gnome-speech-speechd-driver * Where to get it? You can get the distribution tarball of the released version from http://www.freebsoft.org/pub/projects/speechd/speech-dispatcher-0.6rc1.tar.gz We recommend you to fetch the sound icons Speech Dispatcher can use as well. They are available at http://www.freebsoft.org/pub/projects/sound-icons/sound-icons-0.1.tar.gz Corresponding Debian packages will be available at your Debian distribution mirror after the final release takes place. The home page of the project is http://www.freebsoft.org/speechd * How to report bugs? Please report bugs at . For other contact please use Happy synthesizing! _______________________________________________ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From themuso at themuso.com Tue Dec 27 04:07:33 2005 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:07:33 +1100 Subject: Fwd: Gnome Speech driver for Speech Dispatcher available Message-ID: <20051227040733.GB9560@localhost.localdomain> Now that we have a gnome-speech driver for speech-dispatcher, we can seriously look at a more unified approach to speech synthesis for dapper and beyond. I intend to add something to the next meeting agenda about this. ----- Forwarded message from Hynek Hanke ----- From: Hynek Hanke To: gap Subject: Gnome Speech driver for Speech Dispatcher available Gnome Speech SpeechD Driver 0.1 beta ==================================== The Brailcom organization is happy to announce the availability of the Gnome Speech SpeechD Driver beta developed as a part of the Free(b)Soft project. This is not a final stable release. We will welcome any help with testing so that we can discover possible bugs. Please read `NOTES' bellow. * What is Gnome Speech SpeechD Driver? Gnome Speech SpeechD Driver is a driver for Gnome Speech that makes it possible to use Gnome Speech (and thus the Gnopernicus screen reader) on top of Speech Dispatcher. * What is Speech Dispatcher? Speech Dispatcher is a device and desktop independent layer for speech synthesis, developed with the goal of making the usage of speech synthesis easier for application programmers. It takes care of most of the tasks necessary to solve in speech enabled applications. What is a very high level GUI library to graphics, Speech Dispatcher is to speech synthesis. The architecture of Speech Dispatcher is based on a proven client/server model. The basic means of client communication with Speech Dispatcher is through a TCP connection using the Speech Synthesis Interface Protocol (SSIP). Key Speech Dispatcher features are: - Message priority model that allows multiple simultaneous connections to Speech Dispatcher from one or more clients and tries to provide the user with the most important messages. - Different output modules that talk to different synthesizers so that the programmer doesn't need to care which particular synthesizer is being used. Currently Festival, Flite, Epos and (non-free) Dectalk software are supported. Festival is an advanced Free Software synthesizer supporting various languages. - Client-based configuration allows users to configure different settings for different clients that connect to Speech Dispatcher. - Simple interface for programs written in C, C++ provided through a shared library, Python, Common Lisp and Guile interface. An Elisp library is developed as a sperate project speechd-el. Possibly an interface to any other language can be developed. You can get it and find more information at http://www.freebsoft.org/speechd * Notes You need to install Speech Dispatcher 0.6 or higher before installing this version of Gnome Speech SpeechD Driver. This version of Speech Dispatcher is currently available as 0.6rc1 (Release Candidate 1). * Where to get it? You can get the distribution tarball of the released version from http://www.freebsoft.org/pub/projects/gnome-speech-speechd-driver-0.1b.tar.gz The home page of the project is http://www.freebsoft.org/gnome-speech-speechd-driver * How to report bugs? Please report bugs at . For other contact please use . Happy synthesizing! _______________________________________________ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From marvin.nospam at gmail.com Sat Dec 31 10:56:56 2005 From: marvin.nospam at gmail.com (Marvin Raaijmakers) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:56:56 +0100 Subject: keyTouch In-Reply-To: <1134303562.9000.1.camel@localhost> References: <1134297676.7241.16.camel@server.lan> <1134303562.9000.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1136026617.7396.4.camel@server.lan> Giuseppe Borzi' made an Ubuntu package for it: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/keytouch/keytouch_2.0.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb?download He also made one for keytouch-editor: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/keytouch/keytouch-editor_2.0.2-0ubuntu1_i386.deb?download I tested it and it works fine. Do you need something like a source package? - Marvin Raaijmakers On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 13:19 +0100, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello, > > Am Sonntag, den 11.12.2005, 11:41 +0100 schrieb Marvin Raaijmakers: > > Why keyTouch is "better" than other programs of its kind, you can read > > at: http://keytouch.sf.net/ > > I added it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/NewSoftware - hope > I'll find time soon. > > Have a nice day, > Daniel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: