From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Feb 2 11:31:14 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:31:14 +0000 Subject: Accessible Live CD update (gfxboot) Message-ID: <43E1ED82.2000704@ubuntu.com> Hi all, Just got back from the Distro sprint in London, where Colin and I had some very productive chats about making the boot process accessible. And a few hours later he had the basic framework in place. ROCK! So, basically when you boot the live CD there are some function-key options at the bottom of the screen: http://www.simplifiedcomplexity.com/images/screenshots/dapper/flight3/gfxboot-theme-splash-big.png The F4 option has now been linked to Accessibility (more options is F5). When pressed you get a pop-up menu with 7 options, corresponding to the 6 categories listed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/Accessibility plus 'Enable everything' You navigate with the keyboard or press a number key (1-7) to activate an option, which will enable a set of pre-defined assistive technologies. The feature should hit the testing CDs next week, including Flight 4. One issue we encountered was that the Festival libs are rather huge, at 40MB, and so we decided to opt for Festival-light instead (at 8MB) for the live CD. After installing the system it would be possible to upgrade to Festival. We need to document this, or ideally make it very easy. Could we get Ubuntu Express to pull it down from the net for users who are using the Live CD with F-light? For those who have used Festival and Festival-light: what are the main differences? Is it just the quality of the voice? We still need to put in some work to make sure we select sensible config options for each of those categories and of course test the AT tools currently in Dapper to make sure they are well behaved. - Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Thu Feb 2 11:41:36 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 22:41:36 +1100 Subject: Accessible Live CD update (gfxboot) In-Reply-To: <43E1ED82.2000704@ubuntu.com> References: <43E1ED82.2000704@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20060202114136.GA7641@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Feb 02, 2006 at 10:31:14PM EST, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Hi all, > > Just got back from the Distro sprint in London, where Colin and I had > some very productive chats about making the boot process accessible. And > a few hours later he had the basic framework in place. ROCK! I read about this, and was going to email you about it. Sounds good! > You navigate with the keyboard or press a number key (1-7) to activate > an option, which will enable a set of pre-defined assistive > technologies. The feature should hit the testing CDs next week, > including Flight 4. So how do totally blind people navigate this? Speech is impossible at this time I am sure. > One issue we encountered was that the Festival libs are rather huge, at > 40MB, and so we decided to opt for Festival-light instead (at 8MB) for > the live CD. After installing the system it would be possible to upgrade > to Festival. We need to document this, or ideally make it very easy. > Could we get Ubuntu Express to pull it down from the net for users who > are using the Live CD with F-light? For those who have used Festival and > Festival-light: what are the main differences? Is it just the quality of > the voice? Have you looked at language/keyboard selection to be spoken? Is d-i still doing this, or is this done with gfxboot/UbuntuExpress? As for flite and festival, IMO the default voice for both is not very pleasant to listen to. There are no real differences between the two. Flite is what its name suggests, a smaller implementation of festival. > We still need to put in some work to make sure we select sensible config > options for each of those categories and of course test the AT tools > currently in Dapper to make sure they are well behaved. I am also thinking of taking the next flite release, and building on what has been done, to make a much more enhanced CD, mainly for those who need speech/Braille. Thanks for the update. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Feb 2 12:39:02 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:39:02 +0000 Subject: Accessible Live CD update (gfxboot) In-Reply-To: <20060202114136.GA7641@localhost.localdomain> References: <43E1ED82.2000704@ubuntu.com> <20060202114136.GA7641@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43E1FD66.4070408@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: >So how do totally blind people navigate this? Speech is impossible >at this time I am sure. > > Yes, generated speech is impossible in the boot loader, though we were talking about using recorded speech files. However, I'm not sure it's worth doing, because once you have selected the fact that you want AT features, the only thing left to do most often is select you language, and so the recorded files would basically be an English voice saying 'Select language X' where X is one of ~40 languages, most of which are not supported in Festival anyway. Currently the CD works like this: You start it up and you get a welcome screen. You can either just press Enter and it will boot completely to Gnome, no questions asked. Alternatively you can press F2 to select a language, F3 for low-end VGA and F4 for various other HW options. Once you have selected those settings, you press Enter and the system boots with no further questions asked. We plan to modify it in the following way: You boot the CD and get the greeter screen and a single beep. In addition to the other options you can now also press F4 for the AT menu. When the menu opens, you hear another beep. On that menu you can select with arrows+enter or simply press a number from 1-7+enter. Upon selection an option you would hear a double beep as confirmation. So, a blind user (having read some basic instructions on the web -- or in an accompanying letter in braille ...). Would insert the CD, boot and wait for the first beep. She would then press F4 (having this information ahead of time) and hear the second beep. Then she would press 3+enter and hear a double beep confirming that the AT system has been enabled. Finally she would press enter to start the boot. The system would then boot completely to Gnome without further questions. Gnopernicus would be enabled from start and would read out the contents of the screen. I think that's fairly simple, and certainly more accessible than any mainstream OS I know of. Optionally, we can do the same for language, so you could press 'F2', followed by 'de'+enter for German. Of course Festival only has support for a handful of languages anyway AFAIK. Also, optionally later on, we could add better support for low-vision users at the boot prompt. You could press F4+2 for the low vision option, and that could then change the fonts in gfxboot to very large, which would then be helpful in selecting language, etc. >Have you looked at language/keyboard selection to be spoken? Is d-i >still doing this, or is this done with gfxboot/UbuntuExpress? > > gfxboot will handle the language question and UbuntuExpress will remember your choice (but also allow you to change it AFAIR). So if you picked the wrong language during boot, you could still change it while installing AFAIU. - Henrik From garycramblitt at comcast.net Thu Feb 2 13:57:59 2006 From: garycramblitt at comcast.net (Gary Cramblitt) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:57:59 -0500 Subject: Accessible Live CD update (gfxboot) In-Reply-To: <43E1ED82.2000704@ubuntu.com> References: <43E1ED82.2000704@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <200602020857.59474.garycramblitt@comcast.net> On Thursday 02 February 2006 06:31, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: >For those who have used Festival and > Festival-light: what are the main differences? Is it just the quality of > the voice? AFAIK, flite supports only English. -- Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad) KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php From acorbeaux at gmail.com Sat Feb 4 23:19:28 2006 From: acorbeaux at gmail.com (Armand CORBEAUX) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 00:19:28 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu: from 1% to 50% Message-ID: <4955482d0602041519s7a16fc2j@mail.gmail.com> Hello with all, I am new in the project of utilisability of Ubuntu. First thing to be made: to explain which I am. I am consultant as councils for the direction of companies, in all spheres of activities. I hoipe that you will not see me as a "nightmare", because I'm neither a developer, neither a programmer, nor having an unspecified relationship to computers, except through mine. I started to know linux with Redhat 3 and I observed the evolutions of the distributions in time. YES Ubuntu is a great distribution, because it's more simple without root session. YES Ubuntu has make an overall progress in term of effectiveness. Now if Ubuntu wishes to make a progress in term of accessibility, the developers must accept the fact that the distribution is addressed to a "stupid" public. Because I wish to contribute to Ubuntu's development, I will give you my ideas, in my next submissions, to make this operating system installable and usable by the generation of our parents, without any questions. I hope that my work will interest you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Sun Feb 5 00:19:58 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 00:19:58 +0000 Subject: Ubuntu: from 1% to 50% In-Reply-To: <4955482d0602041519s7a16fc2j@mail.gmail.com> References: <4955482d0602041519s7a16fc2j@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43E544AE.20900@ubuntu.com> Armand CORBEAUX wrote: > Hello with all, I am new in the project of utilisability of Ubuntu. > First thing to be made: to explain which I am. [...] > Now if Ubuntu wishes to make a progress in term of accessibility, the > developers must accept the fact that the distribution is addressed to > a "stupid" public. Hello Armand, The Ubuntu Accessibility Team deals with making Ubuntu more accessible to users with a range of disabilities. See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team If you are interested in helping us with this topic, we will certainly appreciate your input, esp. with testing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Testing It seems from your message that you might actually be mostly interested in general usability though, in which case the Desktop Team might be your best starting point: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam In any case, welcome to Ubuntu! - Henrik From enrico at enricozini.org Mon Feb 6 11:21:54 2006 From: enrico at enricozini.org (Enrico Zini) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:21:54 +0100 Subject: Wow! It speaks! Message-ID: <20060206112154.GA28691@viaza> Hello, I've finally managed to install a Breezy and play with accessibility technology for the blind. I installed gnopernicus, did the Desktop/Preferences part, enabling screen reading and logged out. Logging in again, I saw that gnopernicus started but I didn't hear any voice. After playing around a while, it suddendly started speaking. It's kind of working, although sometimes the voice stops and after a while it comes back again. How come the voice is so unreliable? Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From themuso at themuso.com Mon Feb 6 11:40:08 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 22:40:08 +1100 Subject: Wow! It speaks! In-Reply-To: <20060206112154.GA28691@viaza> References: <20060206112154.GA28691@viaza> Message-ID: <20060206114008.GA28191@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:21:54PM EST, Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > > I've finally managed to install a Breezy and play with accessibility > technology for the blind. I installed gnopernicus, did the > Desktop/Preferences part, enabling screen reading and logged out. > > Logging in again, I saw that gnopernicus started but I didn't hear any > voice. After playing around a while, it suddendly started speaking. > > It's kind of working, although sometimes the voice stops and after a > while it comes back again. > > How come the voice is so unreliable? You probably still have esd running. The speech is able to be heard at the times when esd is not holding the sound card. Try turning off the sound server in the preferences and then either kill esd, or log out and back in. Hope this helps. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Feb 9 12:32:03 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 12:32:03 +0000 Subject: Live CD and meeting Message-ID: <43EB3643.4090108@ubuntu.com> Hi all, I just tested the latest daily Live CD yesterday and found that it now has the new 'F4' option for accessibility features. Yay! I still can't get over how cool that is :) What other distro (or OS) has that level of support built in from start? OK, so it doesn't actually do anything just yet :/ That's where we have a job to do. We need to identify exactly which applications must be installed with which settings for the different modes. For example AFAIU, to run gnopernicus sucessfully with screen reading, esd must be turned of, so we must ensure that it is off by default in that mode. I'll make a wiki page where we can list these things in detail, so we make sure devs setting it have the info they need. Of course we also have to TEST the individual AT features that will now be available by default. When I tried gnopernicus in Dapper a few days ago it completely broke my X. Anyone have it working? I'll try again in a few days and if it's still broken start filing bugs. I'd like to schedule a meeting for next week, now that we have some important thinks to talk about. Is Wednesday still a good day for everyone? 19.00 UTC? - Henrik From cabrero at udc.es Thu Feb 9 15:33:02 2006 From: cabrero at udc.es (David Cabrero Souto) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 16:33:02 +0100 Subject: head tracker using webcam Message-ID: <20060209153302.GY28377@udc.es> Hello list. Recently I have seen several proyects which have developed a driver to control the pointer in a window system. The particularity of those drivers is that they use a webcam to track de movement of the head of the user. So people with movility impairments can use the movement of their heads instead of a hand-controlled-mouse. The problem is they all are only for windows and closed-source. So my question is: do you known of any equivalent proyect open-source ? Regards. David ----- From enrico at enricozini.org Thu Feb 9 19:04:40 2006 From: enrico at enricozini.org (Enrico Zini) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 20:04:40 +0100 Subject: Reading OpenOffice.org with Gnopernicus Message-ID: <20060209190440.GA4277@marvin.casa> Hello, I've successully managed[1] to have Breezy speak Italian and now I'm looking a bit at the applications. Gedit and Firefox seem to mostly work. Abiword works except the main editing area (kind of useless, but I didn't investigate more). OpenOffice.org didn't work at all, not even the menus. I googled a bit and found that one needs to do things like install a Java to ATK bridge, a Sun JDK and recompile OpenOffice.org. This all looks very scary to start experimenting with (and a recompile of OOo would probably take days on my hardware). Has anyone tried this path and had success? Can it be done with the OOo already in Breezy (or Dapper)? Ciao, Enrico [1] http://www.enricozini.org/blog/eng/breezy-gnopernicus-italian.html -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mhz.chile at gmail.com Thu Feb 9 19:53:50 2006 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez Z.) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 16:53:50 -0300 Subject: Live CD and meeting In-Reply-To: <43EB3643.4090108@ubuntu.com> References: <43EB3643.4090108@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1139514830.8754.48.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> On Thu, 2006-02-09 at 12:32 +0000, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Hi all, > > I just tested the latest daily Live CD yesterday and found that it now > has the new 'F4' option for accessibility features. Yay! I still can't > get over how cool that is :) What other distro (or OS) has that level of > support built in from start? OK, so it doesn't actually do anything just > yet :/ > Well, yesterday I was told by a former SuSe SysAdmin that SuSe had included braille autodetection at booting time when you want to install it :( He said "if you have some special hardware attached to your computer the installation would autodetect it" Anyways, I am very glad Ubuntu is also considering this as one of the key features. > That's where we have a job to do. We need to identify exactly which > applications must be installed with which settings for the different > modes. For example AFAIU, to run gnopernicus sucessfully with screen > reading, esd must be turned of, so we must ensure that it is off by > default in that mode. I'll make a wiki page where we can list these > things in detail, so we make sure devs setting it have the info they need. Great!! Finally I will have a chance to understand the implications of taking care of a11y issues. > I'd like to schedule a meeting for next week, now that we have some > important thinks to talk about. Is Wednesday still a good day for > everyone? 19.00 UTC? > I am just a distant potential help, so whatever you 'active guys' decide I'll try to make it -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. (56+8)7496071 (56+2)3129513 www.ubuntu-cl.org www.edubuntu.org irc.freenode.net | #edubuntu #edubuntu-es www.tecnocimiento.cl/EdubuntuChile [I dream of things that never were and say 'Why Not?'] ID #287183 http://counter.li.org /!\ Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales para evitar conflictos de lectura con otros lectores de correos. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Fri Feb 10 00:44:23 2006 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:44:23 -0500 Subject: Reading OpenOffice.org with Gnopernicus In-Reply-To: <20060209190440.GA4277@marvin.casa> Message-ID: Hi, During my testing I was able to get Breezy to work with Gnopernicus + ATK Bridge + Java Applications (specifically open office worked). It requires a atk-bridge package which I have compiled and built, but have not been able to build into an .deb package. List, can anyone take this project on? I followed the steps correctly in INSTALL, it requires a few symbolic links after an install. If so please contact me. Enrico if nothing else you can build and install yourself 1) grab tarball from website 2) compile 3) link to correct files in your JDK to the atk-bridge (steps described in INSTALL) 4) run gnopernicus + open office If this is all new to you I will do my best to get a deb prepared. Computer Engineering Exams and projects this week are just keeping me up pretty late :). I apologize for my lack of work recently. Current college courses are taking up the majority of my time. I am not sure how much of this semester I will be able to contribute. Thanks! Jason Grieves -----Original Message----- From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Enrico Zini Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:05 PM To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Reading OpenOffice.org with Gnopernicus Hello, I've successully managed[1] to have Breezy speak Italian and now I'm looking a bit at the applications. Gedit and Firefox seem to mostly work. Abiword works except the main editing area (kind of useless, but I didn't investigate more). OpenOffice.org didn't work at all, not even the menus. I googled a bit and found that one needs to do things like install a Java to ATK bridge, a Sun JDK and recompile OpenOffice.org. This all looks very scary to start experimenting with (and a recompile of OOo would probably take days on my hardware). Has anyone tried this path and had success? Can it be done with the OOo already in Breezy (or Dapper)? Ciao, Enrico [1] http://www.enricozini.org/blog/eng/breezy-gnopernicus-italian.html -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini From enrico at enricozini.org Fri Feb 10 01:03:25 2006 From: enrico at enricozini.org ('Enrico Zini') Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 02:03:25 +0100 Subject: Reading OpenOffice.org with Gnopernicus In-Reply-To: <010001c62ddb$22dd3d10$a700a8c0@beast> References: <20060209190440.GA4277@marvin.casa> <010001c62ddb$22dd3d10$a700a8c0@beast> Message-ID: <20060210010325.GA30568@marvin.casa> On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 07:44:23PM -0500, Jason Grieves wrote: > Enrico if nothing else you can build and install yourself > 1) grab tarball from website Which tarball from which website? > If this is all new to you I will do my best to get a deb prepared. Computer > Engineering Exams and projects this week are just keeping me up pretty late > :). Don't worry. If I can get it running I can try to help with making the .deb. Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From themuso at themuso.com Fri Feb 10 09:51:29 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:51:29 +1100 Subject: Live CD and meeting In-Reply-To: <43EB3643.4090108@ubuntu.com> References: <43EB3643.4090108@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20060210095129.GA11780@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 11:32:03PM EST, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Hi all, > > I just tested the latest daily Live CD yesterday and found that it now > has the new 'F4' option for accessibility features. Yay! I still can't > get over how cool that is :) What other distro (or OS) has that level of > support built in from start? OK, so it doesn't actually do anything just > yet :/ Thanks for pointing this out. I have a cron job to sync to the latest daily images, so I will have a look in the next day or so. > That's where we have a job to do. We need to identify exactly which > applications must be installed with which settings for the different > modes. For example AFAIU, to run gnopernicus sucessfully with screen > reading, esd must be turned of, so we must ensure that it is off by > default in that mode. I'll make a wiki page where we can list these > things in detail, so we make sure devs setting it have the info they need. > > Of course we also have to TEST the individual AT features that will now > be available by default. When I tried gnopernicus in Dapper a few days > ago it completely broke my X. Anyone have it working? I'll try again in > a few days and if it's still broken start filing bugs. I tried Gnopernicus on a dapper chroot only two-three days ago, and had no problems. This is not on a dapper install with newest packages mind you, so there still may be problems. I will check this also. > I'd like to schedule a meeting for next week, now that we have some > important thinks to talk about. Is Wednesday still a good day for > everyone? 19.00 UTC? Wednesday/Thursday is fine for me, just mention a time. I won't be able to attend the meeting any earlier than 13:00 UTC. Please keep us posted re the wik page on accessibility implementation. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From themuso at themuso.com Fri Feb 10 09:56:34 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:56:34 +1100 Subject: Live CD and meeting In-Reply-To: <1139514830.8754.48.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> References: <43EB3643.4090108@ubuntu.com> <1139514830.8754.48.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> Message-ID: <20060210095634.GB11780@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 06:53:50AM EST, Mauricio Hernandez Z. wrote: > On Thu, 2006-02-09 at 12:32 +0000, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I just tested the latest daily Live CD yesterday and found that it now > > has the new 'F4' option for accessibility features. Yay! I still can't > > get over how cool that is :) What other distro (or OS) has that level of > > support built in from start? OK, so it doesn't actually do anything just > > yet :/ > > > > Well, yesterday I was told by a former SuSe SysAdmin that SuSe had > included braille autodetection at booting time when you want to install > it :( > > He said "if you have some special hardware attached to your computer the > installation would autodetect it" > > Anyways, I am very glad Ubuntu is also considering this as one of the > key features. As far as I am aware, SuSE actually use a different Braille package to what Debian/Ubuntu has. The most common Braille package, which is what works with gnopernicus etc is called BrlTTY, and yes you do need special hardware, known as a refreshable Braille display connected to use it. Regarding implementation, we need to get BrlTTy booting as early as possible whenever the Braille option is selected. We also need to configure Gnopernicus to use BrlTTY, but this shouldn't be too difficult. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Feb 10 12:44:58 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:44:58 +0000 Subject: Fwd: Voice recognition for GNOME In-Reply-To: References: <43EC7CAC.8070709@sun.com> Message-ID: <43EC8ACA.5030201@ubuntu.com> Calum Benson wrote: > This is a new voice recognition project for GNOME: > http://glec.umanizales.edu.co/index.php/corporate/proyectos/gervoice >> I've took a look at it, and they seem to be using the IBM voice >> recognition engine. BTW, the website is written in Spanish.. If it's the original ViaVoice engine, then I'm afraid it's not really usable as a dictation tool. Dragon Naturally Speaking is only just usable as that IMO, but is of course Windows-only. I wrote a page about my experiences in using Naturally Speaking to pipe speech input from a Windows box into Gnome on Ubuntu via VNC a few months ago: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpeechRecognition It sort of worked. Even though I have little faith in the old ViaVoice engine, I think this new effort might still be worth while doing for several reasons. The worst thing about the Dragon system is it's user interface; it's more of a hindrance than a help. Editing the few mistakes that do occur is very clumsy and breaks your whole train of thought while dictating. If this gnome project can show the way with a much more elegant user interface then I think there is a fair chance that Dragon might make it's engine available on Linux. After all, Linux can be configured for low latency which is very useful for music applications, and likely for voice recognition too. There is work being done on free engines of course, but I think these will need a lot of investment to catch up. Of course IBM is still working away at its voice recognition technology deep in its labs. I expect the next generation will be very much better than what we have seen so far. - Henrik From hoschwald at freakmail.de Sat Feb 11 14:07:00 2006 From: hoschwald at freakmail.de (Henning Oschwald) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 15:07:00 +0100 Subject: Live CD and meeting In-Reply-To: <20060210095634.GB11780@localhost.localdomain> References: <43EB3643.4090108@ubuntu.com> <1139514830.8754.48.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> <20060210095634.GB11780@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060211140739.GA31534@henning.hoschwald.de> Hi, Am Freitag, 10. Februar schrieb Luke Yelavich: > On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 06:53:50AM EST, Mauricio Hernandez Z. wrote: > > Well, yesterday I was told by a former SuSe SysAdmin that SuSe had > > included braille autodetection at booting time when you want to install > > it :( Right, some braille displays (e.g. from Handytech and Papenmeier) are autodetected by whinfo, wich is also part of Debian and Ubuntu. > As far as I am aware, SuSE actually use a different Braille package to > what Debian/Ubuntu has. Yes, SuSE uses SuSE-Blinux, aka SBL. Actually, SBL doesn't offer an API such as brlapi, wich could be used by Gnopernicus. best regards, Henning From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Sat Feb 11 18:45:46 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:45:46 +0100 Subject: Live CD and meeting In-Reply-To: <20060211140739.GA31534@henning.hoschwald.de> References: <43EB3643.4090108@ubuntu.com> <1139514830.8754.48.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> <20060210095634.GB11780@localhost.localdomain> <20060211140739.GA31534@henning.hoschwald.de> Message-ID: <20060211184546.GP4122@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> Henning Oschwald, le Sat 11 Feb 2006 15:07:00 +0100, a écrit : > > As far as I am aware, SuSE actually use a different Braille package to > > what Debian/Ubuntu has. > > Yes, SuSE uses SuSE-Blinux, aka SBL. Actually, SBL doesn't offer an API > such as brlapi, wich could be used by Gnopernicus. Yes. On the long run, we would like to externalize brlapi server's code for letting it to be used by suse-blinux, brass, etc. But it's not near future. Regards, Samuel From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Feb 13 17:38:52 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:38:52 -0000 Subject: [Bug 21541] No support for BRLTTY in Gnopernicus. References: <20060113141323.21012.5884.launchpad@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Message-ID: <20060213173851.1233.90629.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Public bug report changed: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/21541 Comment: Did you try with Dapper and could report back how that works for you? From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Feb 13 18:33:32 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel thibault) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:33:32 -0000 Subject: [Bug 21541] No support for BRLTTY in Gnopernicus. References: <20060113141323.21012.5884.launchpad@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Message-ID: <20060213183332.1459.94077.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Public bug report changed: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/21541 Comment: Hi, Just a notice: brltty doesn't _depend_ on libbraille. It can use it if it is available, but this is not mandatory. Brltty already has a _lot_ of drivers, and I even wonder whether using libbraille provides any better devices support :) (it was rather a proof of concept port). Regards, Samuel From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Feb 13 18:36:45 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:36:45 -0000 Subject: [Bug 21541] No support for BRLTTY in Gnopernicus. References: <20060113141323.21012.5884.launchpad@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Message-ID: <20060213183645.1233.66955.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Public bug report changed: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/21541 Comment: Ahhh, good to know, thanks Samuel. If anybody else can give input on how BRLTTY works with the Dapper gnopernicus (just uploaded 1.0.2), I'd be very happy. From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Feb 13 18:45:39 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:45:39 +0100 Subject: [Bug 21541] No support for BRLTTY in Gnopernicus. In-Reply-To: <20060213183645.1233.66955.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> References: <20060113141323.21012.5884.launchpad@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> <20060213183645.1233.66955.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20060213184539.GA5003@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> And BTW, you don't need to have any braille device for testing brltty. Just use the xw (XWindow) driver. See Documents/README.Gnopernicus and BrailleDrivers/XWindow/README Regards, Samuel From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Feb 13 18:48:05 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel thibault) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:48:05 -0000 Subject: [Bug 21541] No support for BRLTTY in Gnopernicus. References: <20060113141323.21012.5884.launchpad@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> <20060213183645.1233.66955.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20060213184539.GA5003@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> Public bug report changed: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/21541 Comment: And BTW, you don't need to have any braille device for testing brltty. Just use the xw (XWindow) driver. See Documents/README.Gnopernicus and BrailleDrivers/XWindow/README Regards, Samuel From themuso at themuso.com Wed Feb 15 12:17:38 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:17:38 +1100 Subject: Accessibility Team meeting this Wednesday, 19:00 UTC. Message-ID: <20060215121738.GA4620@localhost.localdomain> Hi all Apologies for the late notice, but since nobody spoke up much about the meeting time, Henrik decided that it would be on Wednesday, 19:UTC, that is Thursday morning for me. :) YOu can find the meeting agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda Hope to see you there. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Feb 15 13:26:36 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:26:36 +0000 Subject: Accessibility Team meeting this Wednesday, 19:00 UTC. In-Reply-To: <20060215121738.GA4620@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060215121738.GA4620@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43F32C0C.7050604@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > Apologies for the late notice, but since nobody spoke up much about the > meeting time, Henrik decided that it would be on Wednesday, 19:UTC, that > is Thursday morning for me. :) Ah, sorry about that. I guess I need to be a bit more clear in communicating times to the list (it was posted on the wiki and the Fridge, but I missed the list). I've posted a page in the wiki about the config parameters we need to set for the 6 different live CD sessions using different assistive technology features. Please add details in your areas of expertise and help with testing if you can. Thanks. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/LiveCDsettings - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Feb 15 13:52:23 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:52:23 +0000 Subject: Gnopernicus magnifier in Dapper working? Message-ID: <43F33217.602@ubuntu.com> So after today's update to at-spi I can now run it and start testing AT apps. Yay! The Gnopernicus screen reader seems to work well, but I cannot get the magnifier to work. No crashes or anything, just no show. I'll report a bug, but I wanted to hear from others who have tried it (and who know much more about this than I do). - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Feb 15 14:44:02 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:44:02 +0000 Subject: Large high-contrast mouse cursors Message-ID: <43F33E32.8000108@ubuntu.com> With the high-visibility boot option on the Live CD we should include a large cursor theme (as well as the high contrast theme). So I've tried the 'big-cursor' package, which doesn't seem to do anything (no new cursors appear in Mouse Preferences -> Pointers (it installs a cursor font -- is this an outdated method that doesn't change the cursors in gnome?) 'xcursor-themes' results in very many choices (too many really) of red and white cursors. Trouble is that these are quite transparent, which while it is a cool effect, is probably not ideal for those who need high contrast. Looks like these might be more suitable: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=20568 Can we package these for dapper? - Henrik From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Feb 15 15:22:27 2006 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:22:27 -0500 Subject: Gnopernicus magnifier in Dapper working? In-Reply-To: <43F33217.602@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: Hi, Well currently my dapper partition is broken (again!) but until recently gnome-mag was working fine. I was even able to test Luke's updated gnome-mag debian package which improved performance drastically. I will look into reparing my Dapper and making sure all recent updates do not affect my performance. Do you have a clean install of Dapper? Jason Grieves -----Original Message----- From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Nilsen Omma Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:52 AM To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Gnopernicus magnifier in Dapper working? So after today's update to at-spi I can now run it and start testing AT apps. Yay! The Gnopernicus screen reader seems to work well, but I cannot get the magnifier to work. No crashes or anything, just no show. I'll report a bug, but I wanted to hear from others who have tried it (and who know much more about this than I do). - Henrik -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Feb 15 15:28:22 2006 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:28:22 -0500 Subject: Large high-contrast mouse cursors In-Reply-To: <43F33E32.8000108@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: Big cursors tested and worked in Dapper, I guess I didn't get this on a wiki. They have been replaced as the old cursors in X were not dynamic and required a restart of X to appear. Big-cursor package creates the new cursor but must be specified in the font files, etc. I have the link you have bookmarked from past research. I found those to be good for low vision use. I also feel the xcursor-themes to be pretty good. As a low vision user I can pop into the largest red and at least have better luck than the small black/white ones by default. Maybe I just can't see the transparency? On a clean install of ubuntu, I have a number of accessibility packages I install. The mouse cursors you described below (xcursors and the ones in the link) as well as luke's gnome-mag package. Definitely add whatever we can! If you build it, they will come. Jason Grieves -----Original Message----- From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Nilsen Omma Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:44 AM To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com; ubuntu-desktop at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Large high-contrast mouse cursors With the high-visibility boot option on the Live CD we should include a large cursor theme (as well as the high contrast theme). So I've tried the 'big-cursor' package, which doesn't seem to do anything (no new cursors appear in Mouse Preferences -> Pointers (it installs a cursor font -- is this an outdated method that doesn't change the cursors in gnome?) 'xcursor-themes' results in very many choices (too many really) of red and white cursors. Trouble is that these are quite transparent, which while it is a cool effect, is probably not ideal for those who need high contrast. Looks like these might be more suitable: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=20568 Can we package these for dapper? - Henrik -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Feb 15 15:39:41 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:39:41 +0000 Subject: Gnopernicus magnifier in Dapper working? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43F34B3D.7090804@ubuntu.com> Jason Grieves wrote: > Hi, > > Well currently my dapper partition is broken (again!) but until recently > gnome-mag was working fine. I was even able to test Luke's updated > gnome-mag debian package which improved performance drastically. > Well, that's good news, and those improvements sound great! What are the chances of getting into dapper? Luke? > Do you have a clean install of Dapper? Clean in the sense that it was a Flight 3 install from scratch. But I've updated it along the way and installed various things of course -- Including the nvidia driver -- might that be the problem? - Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Thu Feb 16 11:56:16 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 22:56:16 +1100 Subject: Further problems with speech implementation. Message-ID: <20060216115615.GA10288@localhost.localdomain> Hi all For those who weren't at the meeting, we discussed various aspects of implementation for the live CD, and the GUI install. A couple of issues were raised conserning the implementation of speech for gnopernicus. From further discussion with Daniel Holbach, it seems that there is more to do than first thought. The following is a summary of what has been discussed so far, including the first implementations, up to my conversation this evening. * An option on the gfxboot screen was created for people to select various accessibility profiles to be loaded when the live CD boots. * One of these involves loading a screen reader with synthesized speech for access to GNOME and the installer. * The necessary settings for these profiles to be activated are not yet implemented, but it was decided to put flite on the CD rather than festival, due to disk space constraints, as flite is much smaller. * It was determined that gnome-speech does not have a driver for flite, so an alternate way of interfacing flite with gnopernicus was suggested, this being to use a newly developed driver for gnome-speech to interface with speech-dispatcher. Speech-dispatcher can interface with flite. This would require either waiting for a new gnome-speech release, or patching the current package with CVS code containing the speech-dispatcher driver. * Speech-dispatcher 0.6 has not yet entered Debian sid, and 0.6 is the only version that the gnome-speech driver will work with. In order for us to use it, we need to upgrade the package in universe to 0.6, and get it promoted to main. * In order to prevent festival from being pulled in when gnome-speech is included, we need to split one or both gnome-speech drivers from the core gnome-speech packages to prevent this from happening. Speech-dispatcher itself doesn't have many dependancies, the biggest one being flite. * Daniel mentioned that feature freeze is fast approaching, and all this needs to be packaged up, and tested on all three architectures. So as you can see, this might be more difficult than we first thought. Daniel, if I have missed anything, please bring it up or correct me. Henrik, I am very interested in your opinion about all of this. If anybody else has anything to say, please speak up, as we need to get something sorted for the release ASAP. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Feb 16 13:29:10 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:29:10 +0000 Subject: Further problems with speech implementation. In-Reply-To: <20060216115615.GA10288@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060216115615.GA10288@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43F47E26.200@ubuntu.com> Hi all, To broaden the discussion I've also added in the -devel list. Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > For those who weren't at the meeting, we discussed various aspects of > implementation for the live CD, and the GUI install. A couple of issues > were raised conserning the implementation of speech for gnopernicus. > From further discussion with Daniel Holbach, it seems that there is more > to do than first thought. The following is a summary of what has been > discussed so far, including the first implementations, up to my > conversation this evening. > > * An option on the gfxboot screen was created for people to select > various accessibility profiles to be loaded when the live CD boots. > * One of these involves loading a screen reader with synthesized speech > for access to GNOME and the installer. > * The necessary settings for these profiles to be activated are not yet > implemented, but it was decided to put flite on the CD rather than > festival, due to disk space constraints, as flite is much smaller. > * It was determined that gnome-speech does not have a driver for flite, > so an alternate way of interfacing flite with gnopernicus was suggested, > this being to use a newly developed driver for gnome-speech to interface > with speech-dispatcher. Speech-dispatcher can interface with flite. This > would require either waiting for a new gnome-speech release, or patching > the current package with CVS code containing the speech-dispatcher > driver. > * Speech-dispatcher 0.6 has not yet entered Debian sid, and 0.6 is the > only version that the gnome-speech driver will work with. In order for > us to use it, we need to upgrade the package in universe to 0.6, and get > it promoted to main. > * In order to prevent festival from being pulled in when gnome-speech is > included, we need to split one or both gnome-speech drivers from the > core gnome-speech packages to prevent this from happening. > Speech-dispatcher itself doesn't have many dependancies, the biggest one > being flite. > * Daniel mentioned that feature freeze is fast approaching, and all this > needs to be packaged up, and tested on all three architectures. > > So as you can see, this might be more difficult than we first thought. > Daniel, if I have missed anything, please bring it up or correct me. > > Henrik, I am very interested in your opinion about all of this. If > anybody else has anything to say, please speak up, as we need to get > something sorted for the release ASAP. > I'd like to bring the core developers into the discussion at this point to since we are approaching a crunch point. As I see it, we have 3 options: 1. Pursue the path you describe above of packaging and promoting speech dispatcher along with the gnome drivers. This would land us on approximately the solution we had planned, though it will be tight to get it working in time. Perhaps we can pursue this if we also agree on a reasonable fall-back plan. 2. Upgrade from Festival-lite to the full Festival - This would give us better speech quality and add 6-7 languages, but would require 40MB instead of the 8MB used by f-lite. While this is theoretically possible by removing language packs and/or Windows-FOSS, I doubt it will be given serious consideration because it will have a significant impact for a large number of users (and space is just always tight). Since the space calculations get more detailed as we approach the release date and other things settle in, I also don't think this would be a possible fall-back option. I would of course love to be wrong :) 3. Remove support for screen readers on the Dapper Live CD. This would also mean removing the 'blindness' option from the menu. This is an unfortunate thing to do since the visually impaired community is by far the most active AT user group on Linux and are as such our main target group at this stage (there are other, larger groups, such as the elderly with mild motoric difficulties, but these may not be early adopters in the same way.) It would also not allow us to claim to have the best default AT support among distros (perhaps we still would in some ways, but it wouldn't be such a clear case to make). Orthogonally to these option, we also have the opportunity of creating an AT derivative. This could easily have the full Festival package and perhaps a few additional AT packages like dasher. This could be released shortly after dapper and be made available for download (space can be made by removing the Win-FOSS). There are benefits to this approach, but getting the AT infrastructure support onto the main CDs is still the big prize. Personally, I would like to see us push for option #1 (assuming #2 to be unrealistic) and have #3 as a fall-back. I'm not the best suited to judge what is required to make #1 a reality though. I'd like to hear from Matt and Colin if possible what you thing WRT timeframes and the suitability of the less-than-completely-mature speech dispatcher et al. - Henrik From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Sat Feb 18 21:35:08 2006 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 16:35:08 -0500 Subject: Gnopernicus magnifier in Dapper working? In-Reply-To: <43F34B3D.7090804@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: Hey, Magnifier is working fine. I wanted to commend everyone for the latest packages! Festival seems to work out of the box now! The default magnifier now works in split screen correctly. The Fixes and Damage hooks are still not working properly though. Jason Grieves -----Original Message----- From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Nilsen Omma Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:40 AM To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Gnopernicus magnifier in Dapper working? Jason Grieves wrote: > Hi, > > Well currently my dapper partition is broken (again!) but until recently > gnome-mag was working fine. I was even able to test Luke's updated > gnome-mag debian package which improved performance drastically. > Well, that's good news, and those improvements sound great! What are the chances of getting into dapper? Luke? > Do you have a clean install of Dapper? Clean in the sense that it was a Flight 3 install from scratch. But I've updated it along the way and installed various things of course -- Including the nvidia driver -- might that be the problem? - Henrik -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From melissa at meldraweb.com Sun Feb 19 07:19:52 2006 From: melissa at meldraweb.com (Melissa Draper) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:19:52 +1100 Subject: accessibility & ubuntu Message-ID: <1140333593.12424.2.camel@scorpion> I originally posted the text below to the community chat yesterday, and UbuWu directed me to post it here as well...so I am. Greetings, A few hours ago in the IRC #ubuntu channel, a vision impaired individual asked whether if there was any word-processor type packages that were more user-friendly for vision-impaired people than OpenOffice or Abiword. This person was directed to consult the development team in the #ubuntu-devel channel about possible remedies, and was not taken seriously due to a comment he had made earlier in the #ubuntu channel. First off, I would like to mention that I am aware of the port of Hoary to be accessible approximately a year ago, even before my involvement with Ubuntu began (see here). I am also aware that there is an accessibility team (see here) - although it does not seem to have much of a presence either in the forums or in the freenode IRC network. I am not visually-impaired, but nonetheless believe that this issue is something that should be taken seriously. Vision impairment is something that will strike many of us eventually, and it is unfortunate that some people aquire this problem earlier than others. As an outsider, I would like to make a few suggestions: - Forum: I believe it would be highly beneficial for there to be a sub-forum somewhere for people to post accessibility howtos, and for interested/affected people to ask questions and offer suggestions to each other. - IRC: This would be mainly beneficial for walk-ins, such as the individual tonight, where they can ask a question to people who can help them. Since the catchcry of Ubuntu is 'Linux for Human Beings', it's seems only fair that special effort is taken towards this issue and the existance of the accessibility team is an indication that this is being done. However, it seems silly that such an intitiative is such a hidden force. I would also like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the accessibility team for all their hard work. Although I have not the need for their efforts at this time, one day, I may. Meldra From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Sun Feb 19 08:35:45 2006 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:35:45 -0500 Subject: accessibility & ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1140333593.12424.2.camel@scorpion> Message-ID: Greetings, Thanks for your comments. As a low vision user, I came into Ubuntu around 6 months ago. I felt similarly aggravated with the lack of accessibility, but much as improved since then. Though I do not have a perfect environment setup yet, we are making head way into our projects. I can actually sit 2 feet away from my computer, with my glasses off (20/400 vision!) and work in Firefox and Open Office. All with open source technology. First, a sub-forum for accessibility in the main ubuntu page is asking a lot, even though I'd love to see it. Though I believe we are making much more headway than other distributions, we still do not have a huge following. I believe there was a meeting discussing setting up a forum for separate questions. I do not believe that has been investigated yet. Dapper will be greatly improving accessibility. To begin, the install will be accessible. Second, gnopernicus packages have improved, and speech can be turned on immediately after grabbing gnopernicus. The magnifier still seems to be an issue, but I am working on documentation on how to get it in a usable environment similar to Zoomtext. On the forums I have my signature as proud member of the Accessibility-Team. I should hotlink this to the web pages! I should also post more! Perhaps we can all do this? I have received several emails/Private messages with regards to this in my signature. #ubuntu-accessibility, if I remember correctly. Luke Idles in there and last semester I was in there idled 8 hours a day (while working). Now back at college with a vigorous schedule, I can't seem to stay/get in there. As the project strengthens our presence should increase. I am reminded of a wise philosopher (Field of Dreams) If you build it, they will come. A lot of what you are discussing is support. I think as we get the infrastructure in place, more disabled users will join ranks, etc. Looking forward to what we can continue to accomplish, Jason Grieves -----Original Message----- From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Draper Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 2:20 AM To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: accessibility & ubuntu I originally posted the text below to the community chat yesterday, and UbuWu directed me to post it here as well...so I am. Greetings, A few hours ago in the IRC #ubuntu channel, a vision impaired individual asked whether if there was any word-processor type packages that were more user-friendly for vision-impaired people than OpenOffice or Abiword. This person was directed to consult the development team in the #ubuntu-devel channel about possible remedies, and was not taken seriously due to a comment he had made earlier in the #ubuntu channel. First off, I would like to mention that I am aware of the port of Hoary to be accessible approximately a year ago, even before my involvement with Ubuntu began (see here). I am also aware that there is an accessibility team (see here) - although it does not seem to have much of a presence either in the forums or in the freenode IRC network. I am not visually-impaired, but nonetheless believe that this issue is something that should be taken seriously. Vision impairment is something that will strike many of us eventually, and it is unfortunate that some people aquire this problem earlier than others. As an outsider, I would like to make a few suggestions: - Forum: I believe it would be highly beneficial for there to be a sub-forum somewhere for people to post accessibility howtos, and for interested/affected people to ask questions and offer suggestions to each other. - IRC: This would be mainly beneficial for walk-ins, such as the individual tonight, where they can ask a question to people who can help them. Since the catchcry of Ubuntu is 'Linux for Human Beings', it's seems only fair that special effort is taken towards this issue and the existance of the accessibility team is an indication that this is being done. However, it seems silly that such an intitiative is such a hidden force. I would also like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the accessibility team for all their hard work. Although I have not the need for their efforts at this time, one day, I may. Meldra -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From themuso at themuso.com Sun Feb 19 08:49:09 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:49:09 +1100 Subject: accessibility & ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1140333593.12424.2.camel@scorpion> References: <1140333593.12424.2.camel@scorpion> Message-ID: <20060219084909.GA18689@themuso.com> On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 06:19:52PM EST, Melissa Draper wrote: > Greetings, > > A few hours ago in the IRC #ubuntu channel, a vision impaired individual > asked whether if there was any word-processor type packages that were > more user-friendly for vision-impaired people than OpenOffice or > Abiword. This person was directed to consult the development team in the > #ubuntu-devel channel about possible remedies, and was not taken > seriously due to a comment he had made earlier in the #ubuntu channel. > > First off, I would like to mention that I am aware of the port of Hoary > to be accessible approximately a year ago, even before my involvement > with Ubuntu began (see here). I am also aware that there is an > accessibility team (see here) - although it does not seem to have much > of a presence either in the forums or in the freenode IRC network. You will find that just about all, if not most seasoned contributers and developers prefer to use mailing lists, as they tend to be a lot more efficient, due to the fact that when one checks their mail, any posts of interest are right there in their mail box, which they can reply to quickly. As for visibility in the community, there is indeed an IRC channel, #ubuntu-accessibility, although it is rather quiet. The accessibility team is also made up of contributers/developers who also help in other areas of Ubuntu, so are unable to devote as much time as they would like to the team, which includes helping users with problems, etc. As for the forums, I personally would try and frequent them as much as I possibly could, if there was a forum dedicated to accessibility. > I am not visually-impaired, but nonetheless believe that this issue is > something that should be taken seriously. Vision impairment is something > that will strike many of us eventually, and it is unfortunate that some > people aquire this problem earlier than others. I myself have a vision impairement, and am lucky to know enough to get a Linux system set up for myself with accessibility. I share your thoughts re accessibility, however it is an area of software development and usability that is often overlooked. We as a team are certainly trying to address this. > As an outsider, I would like to make a few suggestions: > > - Forum: I believe it would be highly beneficial for there to be a > sub-forum somewhere for people to post accessibility howtos, and for > interested/affected people to ask questions and offer suggestions to > each other. If people have howtos, they are welcome to contribute to the wiki. There is information on the wiki about Ubuntu's Accessibility at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility. As for the forums, see above for my view on this. > - IRC: This would be mainly beneficial for walk-ins, such as the > individual tonight, where they can ask a question to people who can help > them. Again, see above. > I would also like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the > accessibility team for all their hard work. Although I have not the need > for their efforts at this time, one day, I may. Thanks for the suport. We are trying as much as we can to get some form of accessibility included in the next release, however even this is becoming increasingly difficult, as we are waiting for a responce about a couple of issues from people higher up in the distro team, which hasn't happened yet, and feature freeze is less than a week away. If you frequent IRC, please feel free to drop into #ubuntu-accessibility and give me a prod. If I am around, I will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have, or make a note/discuss any suggestions you might have. Thanks once again for taking the time out to send us an email. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Sun Feb 19 11:17:05 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:17:05 +0000 Subject: accessibility & ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1140333593.12424.2.camel@scorpion> References: <1140333593.12424.2.camel@scorpion> Message-ID: <43F853B1.90502@ubuntu.com> Melissa Draper wrote: > I originally posted the text below to the community chat yesterday, and > UbuWu directed me to post it here as well...so I am. > Hi Melissa, Thank you for speaking up on this issue. I've posted a reply in the forums (perhaps we should move the discussion there, to involve ourselves more in the wider community :) ) --- Post in Ubuntu forums at: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=132335 --- - Henrik OK, I've looked at these conversations, and I think this particular instance of a) someone being a bit impatient and unfocused due to being tipsy on a saturday night, b) the common problem of it not always being easy to know where to turn with questions and requests within the Ubuntu community. Turning up in ubuntu-devel drunk on a Saturday night demanding a new feature when most devs are away is probably not going to yield the best result. AFAICT good advice was already given in #ubuntu, namely to try the nano editor. It's very simple, has a large cursor and with the preferences for the terminal you can set the font size as large as you want. But there is a wider question here, which we should probably discuss more seriously: the lack of visibility of the accessibility team. One reason for this is that the AT (assistive technology) features in in Ubuntu really haven't been much to shout about so far. With the versions we have released do date, I would not go around evangelising the Ubuntu platform to visually impaired computer users (except for the few who are interested in development on the bleeding edge). I would be doing them a disservice; IMO they were better off staying with Windows or MacOSX. However, with the release of 6.04 (dapper), this is about to change. We will have the key AT features like screen readers and magnifiers installed by default and even running as an option on the live CD. At that point we should start promoting Ubuntu more widely to the disabled community and get feedback from them on how well it's meeting their needs. If we get an influx of new users with the need for these technologies it would also be helpful to have better sources of documentation and sources of support. WRT documentation, we are working on two documents that will be included on the CD itself and on help.ubuntu.com. First there is a brief introduction to the available features and a more extensive user guide. (both need work, help is appreciated) As for support, we have the ubuntu-accessibility mailing list and a separate #ubuntu-accessibility IRC channel. Both of these have a fairly low level of activity though, mainly because our accessibility team is just quite small still. And also, those may not be everyone's preferred mode of communication. I think a special Assistive Technology sub-forum section would be very useful at this point, as a first point of call for new users with questions about what the possibilities are with the current software. It would be even better if a few members of the existing forum community could help out by answering basic questions. It should only take a few minutes to check out some of our existing AT applications, just to have a rough familiarity with them, and be able to help answer questions. We should also set up a FAQ in the wiki for this purpose. I agree that we in the accessibility team are something of a 'hidden force' as you put it, but this is mainly due to our own limited capacity. The core team of active contributors is small, at 5-6 people perhaps, and we are focusing our energy on getting the features to actually work. We would love to see more involvement from the wider community. Much can be done with, testing, documentation writing and user support. We need more champions in the Forums and elsewhere From themuso at themuso.com Sun Feb 19 22:28:12 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:28:12 +1100 Subject: Speech dispatcher and f-lite in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <43F85A11.7050409@ubuntu.com> References: <43F85A11.7050409@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20060219222811.GA28845@themuso.com> On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 10:44:17PM EST, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Hello, > > I'm writing to ask for your advice on configuring speech dispatcher to > work with gnome-speech and f-lite on Ubuntu dapper (6.04 testing version). > > Our aim is to support screen reading by default on our main live CD > (which gets produced in millions of copies and distributed widely). > Because it is a main-stream product the pressures on disc space are > intense, so we were not able to include Festival as the default > synthesizer, but instead opted for f-lite. As you are probably aware, > this requires us to use speech dispatcher and CVS gnome code. Ok. Packages are ready for testing. I have put up a repository on my webspace. Add the following two lines to your /etc/apt/sources.list file in your dapper installation/chroot. deb http://www.themuso.com/ubuntu/accessibility/ dapper main universe deb-src http://www.themuso.com/ubuntu/accessibility/ dapper main universe Binary packages are available for i386 and powerpc. Amd64 users will have to pull down the source and rebuild, as I don't have access to an amd64 box at this time. You will need to have universe enabled in your sources.list file, as speech-dispatcher has needed depenancies there. If you currently have gnome-speech installed, an upgrade will update this, and will also install speech-dispatcher. You will need to manually enable the speech-dispatcher driver in gnopernicus to use it. You can also test it with the test-speech binary that comes with gnome-speech. Note that the test-speech binary is not included in the standard Debian/Ubuntu gnome-speech packages. Please let me know if there are any problems with the archive, and let us get testing. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From themuso at themuso.com Mon Feb 20 13:40:46 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:40:46 +1100 Subject: Test gnome-mag packages available. Message-ID: <20060220134045.GA7813@themuso.com> Hi all I have made test gnome-mag packages available, with XDamage and XFixes extensions properly included and. Please test this, as it would be good to have a smoother running magnifier in split and full screen modes. Add these lines to your /etc/apt/sources.list file. deb http://www.themuso.com/ubuntu/accessibility/ dapper main universe deb-src http://www.themuso.com/ubuntu/accessibility/ dapper main universe Packages are available for i386 and powerpc, as well as source. Just a note that I will be adding various packages that I am working on to this repo over time, so that we can all give them some good testing for inclusion in the next release/a derivative. Enjoy. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Feb 20 15:25:36 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:25:36 +0000 Subject: Test gnome-mag packages available. In-Reply-To: <20060220134045.GA7813@themuso.com> References: <20060220134045.GA7813@themuso.com> Message-ID: <43F9DF70.3040804@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > I have made test gnome-mag packages available, with XDamage and XFixes > extensions properly included and. Please test this, as it would be good > to have a smoother running magnifier in split and full screen modes. > Cool! It installs and runs well for me. It seems responsive enough, though I don't have much experience with magnifiers. There are also some issues: 1. I don't get a gnopernicus settings window so I can't change settings. 2. The magnification window only fills part of the screen. If you cut the screen in 8 sections, 4 wide and 2 high, my magnifier appears in the top row, second column. I have a wide screen display though, so that might be the cause. 3. It doesn't magnify stuff that is hidden under the magnification area. Other than that, it seems to track the cursor quite well. I'm running i386 dapper on an AMD64 system. - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Feb 20 15:37:43 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:37:43 +0000 Subject: Test gnome-mag packages available. In-Reply-To: <43F9DF70.3040804@ubuntu.com> References: <20060220134045.GA7813@themuso.com> <43F9DF70.3040804@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <43F9E247.1060506@ubuntu.com> Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > 1. I don't get a gnopernicus settings window so I can't change settings. Update: the panel was hiding under the magnification area :) I'll now play with some settings and report back ... - Henrik From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Mon Feb 20 15:52:39 2006 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:52:39 -0500 Subject: Test gnome-mag packages available. In-Reply-To: <43F9DF70.3040804@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: Hi, Those are some of the limitations of the gnome-mag package. 1) the settings window often gets hidden under the magnification window, might want to close gnome-mag and see if it is there. Also magnifier can be invoked from the command line with magnifier. magnifier --help should discuss all parameters. 2) sounds like a bug? Can you get a screenshot? 3) you need to bring in another screen for gnome-mag to correctly utilize the full magnification ability. This can be accomplished through a dummy screen driver or an extra vid card. I've had the chance to continue working on my gnome-mag review/guide. I'm up to like 4-5 pages now. Jason Grieves -----Original Message----- From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Nilsen Omma Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:26 AM To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Test gnome-mag packages available. Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > I have made test gnome-mag packages available, with XDamage and XFixes > extensions properly included and. Please test this, as it would be good > to have a smoother running magnifier in split and full screen modes. > Cool! It installs and runs well for me. It seems responsive enough, though I don't have much experience with magnifiers. There are also some issues: 1. I don't get a gnopernicus settings window so I can't change settings. 2. The magnification window only fills part of the screen. If you cut the screen in 8 sections, 4 wide and 2 high, my magnifier appears in the top row, second column. I have a wide screen display though, so that might be the cause. 3. It doesn't magnify stuff that is hidden under the magnification area. Other than that, it seems to track the cursor quite well. I'm running i386 dapper on an AMD64 system. - Henrik -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Feb 20 21:03:12 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:03:12 +0000 Subject: Test gnome-mag packages available. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43FA2E90.2060406@ubuntu.com> Jason Grieves wrote: > 1) the settings window often gets hidden under the magnification window, > might want to close gnome-mag and see if it is there. Also magnifier can be > invoked from the command line with magnifier. magnifier --help should > discuss all parameters. > Hm. This should be fixable. At least our initial default settings should be set to avoid this. Could not the gnopernicus main window be set to appear in the opposite corner of the magnification area? > 2) sounds like a bug? Can you get a screenshot? > Right, so I've put a screenshot here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/Screenshot-ZoomerOptions.png but basically you can see that it has chosen to set itself at x1=320 x2=639 y1=0 y2=479 My display is set to 1280x800 (which I guess gnopernicus should be able to read out). > 3) you need to bring in another screen for gnome-mag to correctly utilize > the full magnification ability. This can be accomplished through a dummy > screen driver or an extra vid card. I have dual head on my card (d-sub + dvi) and an extra screen so I should be able to set this up. However I guess it's not what were aiming for with the default install on the Live CD. Considering what we know about the default behavior of gnopernicus and the default layout of the ubuntu desktop I suggest we tell the magnifier to start with the zoom window on the right-hand side of the display. Two reasons for this: We don't risk covering the Applications et al. menus and the gnopernicus settings window would tend to appear in the top left area on an otherwise empty desktop. So the settings should be: x1 = DisplayWidth/2 x2 = DiplayWidth y1 = 24 y2 = DisplayHeight-24 Where I've taken the gnome-panel bars to be 24px high top and bottom. When I do that on my system it seems to boot into a usable setup. - Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Tue Feb 21 09:06:24 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:06:24 +1100 Subject: Orca now available. Message-ID: <20060221090624.GA17670@linden.yelavich.home> Hi all The Orca screen reader is now available for download from my repository: deb http://www.themuso.com/ubuntu/accessibility/ dapper main universe deb-src http://www.themuso.com/ubuntu/accessibility/ dapper main universe Again, packages for i386 and powerpc, as well as source. Please let me know if you do not want me to keep announcing these additions. I am doing this so that people who want to test them can do so. Thanks and enjoy. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Feb 21 09:39:46 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:39:46 +0000 Subject: Orca now available. In-Reply-To: <20060221090624.GA17670@linden.yelavich.home> References: <20060221090624.GA17670@linden.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <43FADFE2.4000203@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > The Orca screen reader is now available for download from my repository: > Cool! > Please let me know if you do not want me to keep announcing these > additions. I am doing this so that people who want to test them can do > so. Dude, you are producing these things way faster than we can test them :) But yes, please keep it flowing and keep announcing it. It's all great stuff :) (and our list doesn't suffer from traffic overflow ATM either, so no worries) - Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Tue Feb 21 09:50:16 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:50:16 +1100 Subject: Orca now available. In-Reply-To: <43FADFE2.4000203@ubuntu.com> References: <20060221090624.GA17670@linden.yelavich.home> <43FADFE2.4000203@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20060221095016.GA24315@linden.yelavich.home> On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 08:39:46PM EST, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Luke Yelavich wrote: > >Hi all > >The Orca screen reader is now available for download from my repository: > > > Cool! I have also submitted it to REVU, so with a bit of luck, andn if I get problems sorted out quickly enough, we just might see it in universe for this release. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Feb 22 11:40:27 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:40:27 +0000 Subject: Speech dispatcher and f-lite in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20060219222811.GA28845@themuso.com> References: <43F85A11.7050409@ubuntu.com> <20060219222811.GA28845@themuso.com> Message-ID: <43FC4DAB.5040901@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > Ok. Packages are ready for testing. I have put up a repository on my > webspace. Add the following two lines to your /etc/apt/sources.list file > in your dapper installation/chroot. OK, it all seems to be working. I can select the Speech Dispatcher engine from the gnopernicus voices selection. I can see why the Festival voices are considered better than the f-lite ones, but it does work. Perhaps the default settings are a bit too fast though? (or rather what are our default settings? -- it seems like the 'accelerated' voice is the default) I know that people who are used to these systems tend to set the rate quite high, but perhaps we should go with a conservative default and let people tweak it for performance as they get used to it. - Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Wed Feb 22 12:00:07 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 23:00:07 +1100 Subject: Speech dispatcher and f-lite in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <43FC4DAB.5040901@ubuntu.com> References: <43F85A11.7050409@ubuntu.com> <20060219222811.GA28845@themuso.com> <43FC4DAB.5040901@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20060222120006.GA31768@linden.yelavich.home> On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 10:40:27PM EST, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Luke Yelavich wrote: > >Ok. Packages are ready for testing. I have put up a repository on my > >webspace. Add the following two lines to your /etc/apt/sources.list file > >in your dapper installation/chroot. > OK, it all seems to be working. I can select the Speech Dispatcher > engine from the gnopernicus voices selection. I can see why the Festival > voices are considered better than the f-lite ones, but it does work. > > Perhaps the default settings are a bit too fast though? (or rather what > are our default settings? -- it seems like the 'accelerated' voice is > the default) I know that people who are used to these systems tend to > set the rate quite high, but perhaps we should go with a conservative > default and let people tweak it for performance as they get used to it. When packaging, I didn't touch any settings. As it is Henrik, we haven't heard back from the core guys about whether we should take and implement this approach, or whether not. At this stage, it looks to me like it is a no go. I am willing to stay up a little later if you want to jump on IRC< and we can both talk to Colin/any other core guys together. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From themuso at themuso.com Wed Feb 22 13:39:08 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:39:08 +1100 Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. Message-ID: <20060222133908.GA9724@linden.yelavich.home> Hi all So we have managed to squeeze support in for speech for the liv CD, thanks to Henrik for rounding everybody up when we needed to talk, and thanks to Colin for approving the changes/UVF request. Now, we REALLY NEED to finalize the accessibility profiles, located here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/LiveCDsettings I am charged with writing the script to make all of this happen, and I need to get it written and submitted ASAP. So I strongly urge all of you to please make it a priority to have a look, and let me know if you are happy, or think something should be different. Since I will be offline from Friday morning through to probably Sunday, I would like to have this done by the time I go to bed tomorrow night, which is approximately 24 hours. I can make arrangements to be online over those days, but would rather not if I can help it. So please look over them, and let me know. If you could also help in tracking down what settings have to be altered to make various settings happen, I would also lve to know. Thanks. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ricaradu at gmail.com Wed Feb 22 14:58:30 2006 From: ricaradu at gmail.com (Aurelian Radu) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:58:30 +0200 Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. References: <20060222133908.GA9724@linden.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <001b01c637c0$72ac97c0$bed6ba55@mypc> Hello, In my experience, it's better to place the magnification window at the bottom of the screen, so that it splits the display area horizontally, not vertically. Since the magnifier is mostly used for reading, emphasis should be put on the width, not the height, of the magnification window and the magnified area. On my 1024x768 display I use the following settings: Top = 540 Bottom = 767 Left = 0 Right = 1023. With these settings, the magnifier doesn't hide the GNOME bottom panel, except when the mouse is over the magnification window. Anyway, I removed the bottom panel on my system. The default settings would be more appropriate for reading Japanese writing, I think ;) I use a magnification factor of 8, because I'm very near-sighted. I know that not all visually-impaired people need to use such a high magnification factor, but still I think 2 might be too little. Maybe 3 or 4 should be considered. Unfortunately, gnopernicus is not very accessible from the point of view of changing settings. You need to open no less than four windows in order to change zoomer settings. Every time I use this program I punch myself in the face for not learning to program. Now it's too late, I'm an old dog, and busy to boot. A thousand thanks to Luke and the team for the work they've done so far. I've got more suggestions/questions about gnome-mag, gnopernicus and (why not?) kmag, if anybody wants to hear them. I've been using the great little magnifier that comes with Windows for two years now and I wish GNOME/KDE magnifiers could be as good as that one. Thanks for your time! Aurelian Radu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luke Yelavich" To: "Ubuntu Accessibility Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From ricaradu at gmail.com Wed Feb 22 17:14:55 2006 From: ricaradu at gmail.com (Aurelian Radu) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:14:55 +0200 Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. References: Message-ID: <003401c637d3$815c8830$bed6ba55@mypc> Hello, Jason, and thanks for replying. I'm still using XP and unfortunately I don't think I'll be switching to Ubuntu (or any other Linux distro) any time soon. The main reason is that I can't use gnome-mag and gnopernicus with apps like Firefox and especially OpenOffice.org on Linux. I've installed Ubuntu dozens of times (literally!). First Hoary, then Breezy, then upgraded to Dapper... New versions of gnome-mag and gnopernicus have been released, but they don't seem to be any better than the previous ones. I prefer to use the magnifier in split-screen mode (in the lower third of the display area). And now here are some issues: 1) I thing the default settings with the magnifier splitting the display vertically is not a good idea. I think splitting the screen horizontally makes much more sense. Maybe in the future it will be possible to adjust size and position by dragging the margins, like you do with kmag. 2) The first thing I do after installing gnome-mag and gnopernicus is modify the settings. But after rebooting, sometimes my settings are remembered and sometimes gnopernicus reverts to the default settings. If I turn the crosshair off the program always remebers this settings, but settings like position and zoom factor are not always remembered. It's very annoying to change them every time I boot into Ubuntu or restart gnopernicus. 3) Gnome-mag renders magnified images very poorly, showing black patches and portions of closed windows. I don't think it's a hardware problem, because kmag renders images very clearly. 4) The Firefox bug (focus-stealing to the upper-left corner) is still present in Dapper Flight 4 with FF 1.5.0.1. 5) gnome-mag follows keyboard focus in the terminal, gedit and other GNOME apps (even in gnomeradio!), but not in OOo! I know I need the java access-bridge and then I have to recompile OOo, but that's too much for a non-geek like me. Any chance OOo is going to work with gnome-mag/gnopernicus in the near future? 6) Some apps that DO work with the magnifier are not very good at it. For example, when you type into a text box or search bar, the focus goes to the center of the box/bar, it doesn't really follow your typing. If the text box/search bar is long and you use a high magnification factor, you won't be able to see what you type until you reach the center of the box/bar. 7) Gnopernicus magnifier sometimes crashes nautilus, totem and rhythmbox. There might be other issues. I'll write them down when I will remember/encounter them. Aurelian Radu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Grieves" To: "'Aurelian Radu'" Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:44 PM Subject: RE: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. > Hello, > > I would like to work with you on your gnome-mag issues. I have been > working > (in free time) in a full guide/implementation of gnome-mag in full screen > mode. Have you utilized these features before? I would like to catch up > with you to discuss limitations, features you like, etc. Eventually I > want > to begin working on a side project for a new magnifier. I really feel it > is > important to get a lot of data/input first. > > Sincerely, > > Jason Grieves > > -----Original Message----- > From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com > [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of > Aurelian > Radu > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:59 AM > To: Ubuntu Accessibility Mailing List; Luke Yelavich > Subject: Re: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. > > Hello, > > In my experience, it's better to place the magnification window at the > bottom of the screen, so that it splits the display area horizontally, not > vertically. Since the magnifier is mostly used for reading, emphasis > should > be put on the width, not the height, of the magnification window and the > magnified area. On my 1024x768 display I use the following settings: > > Top = 540 > Bottom = 767 > Left = 0 > Right = 1023. > > With these settings, the magnifier doesn't hide the GNOME bottom panel, > except when the mouse is over the magnification window. Anyway, I removed > the bottom panel on my system. > > The default settings would be more appropriate for reading Japanese > writing, > > I think ;) > > I use a magnification factor of 8, because I'm very near-sighted. I know > that not all visually-impaired people need to use such a high > magnification > factor, but still I think 2 might be too little. Maybe 3 or 4 should be > considered. Unfortunately, gnopernicus is not very accessible from the > point > > of view of changing settings. You need to open no less than four windows > in > order to change zoomer settings. Every time I use this program I punch > myself in the face for not learning to program. Now it's too late, I'm an > old dog, and busy to boot. > > A thousand thanks to Luke and the team for the work they've done so far. > I've got more suggestions/questions about gnome-mag, gnopernicus and (why > not?) kmag, if anybody wants to hear them. I've been using the great > little > magnifier that comes with Windows for two years now and I wish GNOME/KDE > magnifiers could be as good as that one. > > Thanks for your time! > > Aurelian Radu > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Luke Yelavich" > To: "Ubuntu Accessibility Mailing List" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:39 PM > Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. > > >> -- >> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >> > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From jasongrieves at hotmail.com Wed Feb 22 19:52:45 2006 From: jasongrieves at hotmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:52:45 -0500 Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. In-Reply-To: <001b01c637c0$72ac97c0$bed6ba55@mypc> Message-ID: Hello, I have found this experience to be true. I believe this is more usable in the environment, but I do not know if most users would expect a split screen vertically? Do you think low vision users coming from Windows will be expecting a vertical or horizontal split? Will the change affect performance? I think it will be more usable and though it might be a change to begin, in the end it will be a better initial solution for the gnome desktop default behavior. I am always afraid to change default behavior when relating to accessibility however... Jason Grieves -----Original Message----- From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Aurelian Radu Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:59 AM To: Ubuntu Accessibility Mailing List; Luke Yelavich Subject: Re: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. Hello, In my experience, it's better to place the magnification window at the bottom of the screen, so that it splits the display area horizontally, not vertically. Since the magnifier is mostly used for reading, emphasis should be put on the width, not the height, of the magnification window and the magnified area. On my 1024x768 display I use the following settings: Top = 540 Bottom = 767 Left = 0 Right = 1023. With these settings, the magnifier doesn't hide the GNOME bottom panel, except when the mouse is over the magnification window. Anyway, I removed the bottom panel on my system. The default settings would be more appropriate for reading Japanese writing, I think ;) I use a magnification factor of 8, because I'm very near-sighted. I know that not all visually-impaired people need to use such a high magnification factor, but still I think 2 might be too little. Maybe 3 or 4 should be considered. Unfortunately, gnopernicus is not very accessible from the point of view of changing settings. You need to open no less than four windows in order to change zoomer settings. Every time I use this program I punch myself in the face for not learning to program. Now it's too late, I'm an old dog, and busy to boot. A thousand thanks to Luke and the team for the work they've done so far. I've got more suggestions/questions about gnome-mag, gnopernicus and (why not?) kmag, if anybody wants to hear them. I've been using the great little magnifier that comes with Windows for two years now and I wish GNOME/KDE magnifiers could be as good as that one. Thanks for your time! Aurelian Radu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luke Yelavich" To: "Ubuntu Accessibility Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Feb 22 20:11:22 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:11:22 +0000 Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. In-Reply-To: <20060222133908.GA9724@linden.yelavich.home> References: <20060222133908.GA9724@linden.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <43FCC56A.2030204@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > So we have managed to squeeze support in for speech for the liv CD, > thanks to Henrik for rounding everybody up when we needed to talk, and > thanks to Colin for approving the changes/UVF request. > > Now, we REALLY NEED to finalize the accessibility profiles, located > here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/LiveCDsettings > Great Luke, thanks for pushing this forward. I will go and complete items 4,5 and 6 now, which are the ones I know about. I don't know what the config file changes should be for #4, sorry. For #5 I think we just start gok in standard mode. If we need to tweak one or two settings on that later, I'm sure we can. For #6, gok with switch operation, I have a more radical suggestion: I think we should skip it this time around. We haven't given that mode any testing at all, and we probably need special hardware really. That also means removing it from the gfxboot menu. I think it's better to skip it now and re-introduce it when we know it works well. On Aurelian's suggestion of placing the Magnification window at the bottom of the screen, that sounds good to me. It does solve the problem of hiding the application panel and the gnopernicus menu. I'm not the best one to judge this though. - Henrik From melissa at meldraweb.com Thu Feb 23 00:33:00 2006 From: melissa at meldraweb.com (Melissa Draper) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:33:00 +1100 Subject: Channel Bot Message-ID: <1140654780.10273.15.camel@scorpion> Hi, Luke and I had a discussion a few nights back about the possibility of stationing a bot in the channel. The bot will store information that can be spurted on command, similar to how ubotu works. The idea being, that there can be a source of instant information present, even when people are not in the channel, idling in the channel, or not responding to mails, since we all have to sleep sometime, of course. Anyway, if you are all willing to at least try this, I have the bot coded and ready to join the channel at any time. Melissa From themuso at themuso.com Thu Feb 23 01:06:04 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:06:04 +1100 Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. In-Reply-To: <001b01c637c0$72ac97c0$bed6ba55@mypc> References: <20060222133908.GA9724@linden.yelavich.home> <001b01c637c0$72ac97c0$bed6ba55@mypc> Message-ID: <20060223010604.GA21337@linden.yelavich.home> On Thu, Feb 23, 2006 at 01:58:30AM EST, Aurelian Radu wrote: > Hello, > > In my experience, it's better to place the magnification window at the > bottom of the screen, so that it splits the display area horizontally, not > vertically. Since the magnifier is mostly used for reading, emphasis should > be put on the width, not the height, of the magnification window and the > magnified area. On my 1024x768 display I use the following settings: > > Top = 540 > Bottom = 767 > Left = 0 > Right = 1023. Ok, I am going to implement the above settings for now. We may be able to tweak them once or twice more. One thing I was thinking about however, is how are we going to set the positioning of the magnified window when we don't know what screen resolution someone might get when booting the CD, but I guess we will have to worry about that when the time comes. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From themuso at themuso.com Thu Feb 23 01:08:22 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:08:22 +1100 Subject: Mouse cursors. Message-ID: <20060223010822.GB21337@linden.yelavich.home> Hi all While implementing accessibility profile 1, I was unable to find a suitable package/theme that had bigger mouse cursors. There is the big-cursor package, but as I understand it, this package is not directly tied in with GNOME. So if anybody can have a look around and find something we can use, that would be great. Note that it would be preferable if it was a package already in the archive, as we would then have more luck in getting it updated/integrated than we would have trying to put yet another new package in the archive. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ricaradu at gmail.com Thu Feb 23 07:09:20 2006 From: ricaradu at gmail.com (Aurelian Radu) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:09:20 +0200 Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. References: <20060222133908.GA9724@linden.yelavich.home> <001b01c637c0$72ac97c0$bed6ba55@mypc> <20060223010604.GA21337@linden.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <003501c63848$15744520$bed6ba55@mypc> On Thu, Feb 23, 2006 at 01:58:30AM EST, Aurelian Radu wrote: >One thing I was thinking about however, is how are we going to set the >positioning of the magnified window when we don't know what screen >resolution someone might get when booting the CD, but I guess we will >have to worry about that when the time comes. How is the screen positioning set now? How does gnopernicus know that "Left = 511" is the center of my 1024 screen? Maybe gnopernicus sets default position by reading the screen resolution values from xorg.comf? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luke Yelavich" To: "Aurelian Radu" Cc: "Ubuntu Accessibility Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:06 AM Subject: Re: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Feb 23 09:14:57 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:14:57 +0000 Subject: Channel Bot In-Reply-To: <1140654780.10273.15.camel@scorpion> References: <1140654780.10273.15.camel@scorpion> Message-ID: <43FD7D11.3090007@ubuntu.com> Melissa Draper wrote: > Hi, > > Luke and I had a discussion a few nights back about the possibility of > stationing a bot in the channel. The bot will store information that can > be spurted on command, similar to how ubotu works. The idea being, that > there can be a source of instant information present, even when people > are not in the channel, idling in the channel, or not responding to > mails, since we all have to sleep sometime, of course. > > Anyway, if you are all willing to at least try this, I have the bot > coded and ready to join the channel at any time. > Sounds like a good idea in general. So will that trigger on different typical words and if so shall we maintain a list somewhere (so we can add to it and also avoid using them normally)? I could imagine it might get annoying when we are actually using the channel (but let's worry about that if it becomes an issue). Is it easy for other people to turn it off? Can channel ops block the bot (not that we have ops ATM). But most importantly, Melissa: I'd like to extend a warm welcome to the accessibility team. Thanks for getting involved :) - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Feb 23 09:26:57 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:26:57 +0000 Subject: Mouse cursors. In-Reply-To: <20060223010822.GB21337@linden.yelavich.home> References: <20060223010822.GB21337@linden.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <43FD7FE1.7080504@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > While implementing accessibility profile 1, I was unable to find a > suitable package/theme that had bigger mouse cursors. There is the > big-cursor package, but as I understand it, this package is not directly > tied in with GNOME. So if anybody can have a look around and find > something we can use, that would be great. > I think we agreed on this list that this one was actually best suited: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=20568 Unfortunately it isn't packaged yet. - Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Thu Feb 23 09:27:26 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:27:26 +1100 Subject: Accessibility profiles implemented. Message-ID: <20060223092725.GA30961@linden.yelavich.home> Hi all Well, after several hours of digging through gconf, and playing around, I am very happy to say that I have implemented the guts of the 5 accessibility profiles we have settled on. Tollef Fog Heen should have my additions if not now, then in the next few hours. We now just need to wait for the appropriate packages to be put onto the live CD, so we can start testing. I suggest that if you wish to test, you might want to download it in the next few days. Note that the images are updated daily, so if there are problems found, at worst, it might be 3 days till the changes that I make appear on the CD. I will endever to let you know when things are in place, so we as a team can start playing. :) Thanks to Henrik and Daniel once again for helping to make this possible. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Feb 23 09:39:31 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:39:31 +0000 Subject: Mouse cursors. In-Reply-To: <43FD7FE1.7080504@ubuntu.com> References: <20060223010822.GB21337@linden.yelavich.home> <43FD7FE1.7080504@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <43FD82D3.5060709@ubuntu.com> Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > I think we agreed on this list that this one was actually best suited: > http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=20568 > > Unfortunately it isn't packaged yet. > Just tested, they seem to work well. Instructions for installing here: 1. Unzip the file and move the folder "contrastlarge" to ~/.icons/ 2. open the gconf editor 3. change the key /desktop/gnome/peripherals/mouse/cursor_theme to "contrastlarge" 4. log off - Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Feb 23 09:41:26 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:41:26 +0000 Subject: Accessibility profiles implemented. In-Reply-To: <20060223092725.GA30961@linden.yelavich.home> References: <20060223092725.GA30961@linden.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <43FD8346.5040009@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > Well, after several hours of digging through gconf, and playing around, > I am very happy to say that I have implemented the guts of the 5 > accessibility profiles we have settled on. Luke, you are my hero! - Henrik From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Thu Feb 23 10:07:09 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:07:09 +0100 Subject: Final call for info re accessibility profiles. In-Reply-To: <003501c63848$15744520$bed6ba55@mypc> References: <20060222133908.GA9724@linden.yelavich.home> <001b01c637c0$72ac97c0$bed6ba55@mypc> <20060223010604.GA21337@linden.yelavich.home> <003501c63848$15744520$bed6ba55@mypc> Message-ID: <20060223100709.GE4620@implementation.labri.fr> Aurelian Radu, le Thu 23 Feb 2006 09:09:20 +0200, a écrit : > On Thu, Feb 23, 2006 at 01:58:30AM EST, Aurelian Radu wrote: > > >One thing I was thinking about however, is how are we going to set the > >positioning of the magnified window when we don't know what screen > >resolution someone might get when booting the CD, but I guess we will > >have to worry about that when the time comes. > > How is the screen positioning set now? How does gnopernicus know that "Left > = 511" is the center of my 1024 screen? Maybe gnopernicus sets default > position by reading the screen resolution values from xorg.comf? It may ask this information from the X server From melissa at meldraweb.com Thu Feb 23 10:24:18 2006 From: melissa at meldraweb.com (Melissa Draper) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:24:18 +1100 Subject: Channel Bot In-Reply-To: <43FD7D11.3090007@ubuntu.com> References: <1140654780.10273.15.camel@scorpion> <43FD7D11.3090007@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1140690258.10273.41.camel@scorpion> Henrik et al, I have now unleashed the bot into the channel. On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 09:14 +0000, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Sounds like a good idea in general. So will that trigger on different > typical words and if so shall we maintain a list somewhere (so we can > add to it and also avoid using them normally)? It will work similarly to ubotu, in terms of people asking, rather than it just randomly spewing info. Commands for everyone are as follows: .help <-- this will make the bot list the general commands .info topic <-- this will make the bot search for information that matches the topic name .admin <-- although a general command, it's not listed in .help Admin commands: (at this time, admins for the bot are Luke, Henrik, Daniel Holbach and of course, myself) .addinfo "topic" information .updateinfo "topic" information .delinfo "topic" .addadmin name .deladmin name In the admin commands, topic is the keyword for the info, information is well... the information, name is the nick of the admin. Also, please remember to use " and not ' > I could imagine it might get annoying when we are actually using the > channel (but let's worry about that if it becomes an issue). Is it easy > for other people to turn it off? Can channel ops block the bot (not that > we have ops ATM). Fear not, all commands for the bot must be the first thing in the said line, and they all start with a period. So in normal conversation, it shouldnt be a problem, unless you like starting your lines with .info ;) > But most importantly, Melissa: I'd like to extend a warm welcome to the > accessibility team. Thanks for getting involved :) Thankyou Henrik. I'm just glad I can be of assistance. Since my sight is still good, my opinion on alot of things will be irrelevent, however, I am willing to help out with other things, such as the new channel bot :) Melissa. From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Feb 24 12:14:27 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:14:27 +0000 Subject: Festival vs. F-lite file sizes (installed) Message-ID: <43FEF8A3.9050103@ubuntu.com> Hi list, We seem to be having some last minute confusion with regard to the Festival and F-lite options for speech support on the Live CD. For some reason it was assumed that Festival would require 40MB of installed space, while F-lite would only require 8MB. However, it turned out that F-lite was not supported directly by gnome-speech and so we needed to add speech-dispatcher to make it work. Unfortunately, this takes the total to 17MB. apt-cache show festival now only shows 7.3MB (and with dev packages removed it's more like 4.8MB) So the confusion is now complete ... is Festival really that small? and if so why should we not simply go with Festival? We get better sound and can avoid the unstable gnome-speech CVS and speech dispatcher. What are we missing from this picture? :) - Henrik From mhz.chile at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 13:32:12 2006 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez Z.) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:32:12 -0300 Subject: Festival vs. F-lite file sizes (installed) In-Reply-To: <43FEF8A3.9050103@ubuntu.com> References: <43FEF8A3.9050103@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1140787932.6943.115.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> Good, I can finally give opinion on something! :D IMHO, if this is the first time we'll ship something for a11y, this should give the best impresion immediately. If we ship something we know it is not the best, we may endup having desertors instead of fans accepting a new product and waiting til this gets better in 6 more months (spring time?). Having said that, I'd vote for Festival, no doubt, and even if it is too fat, then I'd still include if we consider it is a 'must application', and prefer to not include some other apps. Basically, my point is that if we ship few apps. but with excellent performance for target users they will easily see we our serious about a11y technology but we are limited to 700 MB cd. So once users provide feedback, we can disscuss with them about the chances to change one app for lighter ones. -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. (56+8)7496071 (56+2)3129513 www.ubuntu-cl.org www.edubuntu.org irc.freenode.net | #edubuntu #edubuntu-es www.tecnocimiento.cl/EdubuntuChile [I dream of things that never were and say 'Why Not?'] ID #287183 http://counter.li.org /!\ Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales para evitar conflictos de lectura con otros lectores de correos. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mhz.chile at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 13:32:31 2006 From: mhz.chile at gmail.com (Mauricio Hernandez Z.) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:32:31 -0300 Subject: Accessibility profiles implemented. In-Reply-To: <43FD8346.5040009@ubuntu.com> References: <20060223092725.GA30961@linden.yelavich.home> <43FD8346.5040009@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1140787952.6943.116.camel@b2175.lacasa.org> On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 09:41 +0000, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Luke Yelavich wrote: > > Hi all > > Well, after several hours of digging through gconf, and playing around, > > I am very happy to say that I have implemented the guts of the 5 > > accessibility profiles we have settled on. > Luke, you are my hero! > +1 _o/ \o/ \o_ (a cheer for Luke, Daniel and Henrik) -- Cordialmente, Mauricio Hernandez Z. (56+8)7496071 (56+2)3129513 www.ubuntu-cl.org www.edubuntu.org irc.freenode.net | #edubuntu #edubuntu-es www.tecnocimiento.cl/EdubuntuChile [I dream of things that never were and say 'Why Not?'] ID #287183 http://counter.li.org /!\ Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales para evitar conflictos de lectura con otros lectores de correos. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pdm at brailcom.org Fri Feb 24 16:14:01 2006 From: pdm at brailcom.org (Milan Zamazal) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:14:01 +0100 Subject: Festival vs. F-lite file sizes (installed) References: <43FEF8A3.9050103@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <87fym8pwdy.fsf@blackbird.zamazal.org> >>>>> "HNO" == Henrik Nilsen Omma writes: HNO> For some reason it was assumed that Festival would require 40MB HNO> of installed space, while F-lite would only require HNO> 8MB. However, it turned out that F-lite was not supported HNO> directly by gnome-speech and so we needed to add HNO> speech-dispatcher to make it work. Unfortunately, this takes HNO> the total to 17MB. On Debian, the following applies: - libflite1 is 13 MB. - Flite and Speech Dispatcher itself are small, but they both depend on libflite1. - AFAIK Speech Dispatcher needs only libflite1, not flite itself. - libflite1 contains several voices. If only one 8 kHz voice was retained, its size would reduce to about 5 MB. - AFAIK you don't have to install both Speech Dispatcher and flite -- libflite1 does all what's needed for Speech Dispatcher. - 8 MB may be size of plain Festival without any voices. - 8 kHz Festival English diphone voices are about 3 MB each, 16kHz diphone voices are about 6 MB each. So flite can indeed be about 8 MB, Festival can require about 12 MB with a single 8kHz voice or about 15 MB with a single 16 kHz voice. Festival is much more customizable and supports several languages. Using Speech Dispatcher only because it supports flite is not a very good idea IMHO. Speech Dispatcher is about managing speech messages, but GNOME technologies currently don't use its advantages at all (there is a full featured Speech Dispatcher Emacs client and Speech Dispatcher support for Speakup). Regards, Milan Zamazal From themuso at themuso.com Mon Feb 27 07:36:56 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:36:56 +1100 Subject: Accessibility team meeting. Message-ID: <20060227073656.GA15467@linden.yelavich.home> Hi all I think it is about time we had another accessibility team meeting. A lot has been happneing in the past week, and a lot still needs to be done in order for us to get accessibility happening for the Live CD. I would like us to get together so we can discuss in real-time what has been done, and what we need to do, regarding settings for packages, etc. Wednesday aroud 19:00 UTC is when I would like to have it, but please speak up if you would like us to have the meeting at any other time. I will put some topics for discussion up on the meeting agenda page. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Feb 27 09:29:44 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:29:44 +0000 Subject: Accessibility team meeting. In-Reply-To: <20060227073656.GA15467@linden.yelavich.home> References: <20060227073656.GA15467@linden.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <4402C688.6010900@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: > I would like us to get together so we can discuss in real-time what has > been done, and what we need to do, regarding settings for packages, etc. > Sounds good. It's been quite a ride. A lot of activity and a bit of confusion :) > Wednesday aroud 19:00 UTC is when I would like to have it, but please > speak up if you would like us to have the meeting at any other time. Good time for me. - Henrik