From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Sun Oct 1 10:51:10 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 10:51:10 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63243] Re: Segfault running orca References: <20060930211847.3619.76169.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061001105110.2315.38951.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Thanks for your bug report. Could this be a duplicate of bug 59120? ** Changed in: gnome-speech (Ubuntu) Status: Unconfirmed => Needs Info -- Segfault running orca https://launchpad.net/bugs/63243 From spray at lyx.org Sun Oct 1 11:17:57 2006 From: spray at lyx.org (John Spray) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 11:17:57 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061001111757.3619.2124.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> +1, details attached. ** Attachment added: "Autogenerated crash report" http://librarian.launchpad.net/4566868/_usr_lib_at-spi_at-spi-registryd.1000.crash -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From spray at lyx.org Sun Oct 1 11:19:10 2006 From: spray at lyx.org (John Spray) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 11:19:10 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63332] Gnopernicus crashes References: <20061001111910.2315.97477.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061001111910.2315.97477.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: Autogenerated crash report to be attached -- not doing anything special at time of crash, was in the middle of reporting a window focus change I think. ** Affects: gnopernicus (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: Unconfirmed -- Gnopernicus crashes https://launchpad.net/bugs/63332 From spray at lyx.org Sun Oct 1 11:20:29 2006 From: spray at lyx.org (John Spray) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 11:20:29 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63332] Re: Gnopernicus crashes References: <20061001111910.2315.97477.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061001112029.3619.27348.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Here it is. ** Attachment added: "autogenerated crash report" http://librarian.launchpad.net/4566871/_usr_bin_srcore.1000.crash -- Gnopernicus crashes https://launchpad.net/bugs/63332 From sitsofe at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 12:48:58 2006 From: sitsofe at yahoo.com (Sitsofe Wheeler) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 12:48:58 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63243] Re: Segfault running orca References: <20060930211847.3619.76169.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061001124858.2244.72698.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 59120 *** Wow how sloppy of me. Yup this is a dup of bug 59120. Perhaps the back trace in my crash dump will be of some use... I can't make it much more detailed though unless someone builds a dbg package for gnome-speech though... ** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 59120 Sudden crash (please attach backtraces) -- Segfault running orca https://launchpad.net/bugs/63243 From sitsofe at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 12:49:52 2006 From: sitsofe at yahoo.com (Sitsofe Wheeler) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 12:49:52 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63243] Re: Segfault running orca References: <20060930211847.3619.76169.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061001124952.3663.81150.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 59120 *** Rejecting because this looks like a dup. ** Changed in: gnome-speech (Ubuntu) Status: Needs Info => Rejected -- Segfault running orca https://launchpad.net/bugs/63243 From sitsofe at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 12:50:42 2006 From: sitsofe at yahoo.com (Sitsofe Wheeler) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 12:50:42 -0000 Subject: [Bug 59120] Re: Sudden crash (please attach backtraces) References: <20060906030318.29144.79117.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061001125042.3663.1102.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> There's a partial backtrace in http://librarian.launchpad.net/4564258 /_usr_bin_festival-synthesis-driver.1000.crash ** Bug 63243 has been marked a duplicate of this bug -- Sudden crash (please attach backtraces) https://launchpad.net/bugs/59120 From whsun at mail.ustc.edu.cn Sun Oct 1 13:11:05 2006 From: whsun at mail.ustc.edu.cn (weihai sun) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:11:05 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061001131105.2315.45190.launchpad@gangotri.ubuntu.com> ** Description changed: - the problem report just pops up.... + I have the same bug! + "at-spi-registryd"closed unexpectedly -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Sun Oct 1 14:07:35 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 14:07:35 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061001140735.2244.51789.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The crash report does not contain a backtrace. -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From kb8aey at verizon.net Sun Oct 1 15:43:16 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 10:43:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: I have two questions. Message-ID: <0J6G0056MRO3JLJ9@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, I asked about this before, but maybe the message didn't get out. 1, How do I change the volume in edgy. I don't find a control for this. 2, I am having a hard time trying to enable universe. The following is listed for dapper. Adding Extra Repositories X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0639-4, 09/29/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean To enable the extra repositories: Open System->Administration->Software Properties . Select Add To enable the Universe repository, check the Community Maintained (Universe) button. [Note] Adding this repository will mean that the majority of the Free Software universe will be available to install on your system. This software is supported by a carefully selected group of volunteers within the Ubuntu Community, but is not supported by the core Ubuntu development team and may not include security In edgy there is no software properties. I tried to edit the file, but it is read only. I tried to open the file with administration privileges in terminal and orca stopped speaking. Has anyone been able to do this in edgy. Thanks Mike. From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Sun Oct 1 23:26:14 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 02:26:14 +0300 Subject: eSpeak not Speaking with Speech-Dispatcher although Festival Does: Here're the Logs and Configs Message-ID: <000301c6e5b1$003ba9c0$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi list, Ok I've made some progress now. Thanks to a recent list post I learned how to enable universe which made a big difference. Turned out I didn't have speech-dispatcher installed, though Gnopernicus tried using it. Well now I do, after finding out how Synaptic is used, and have modded some config files. speech-dispatcher worked with Flite a while back but I had the same audio problems as with Festival. Now I'm trying to get it rolling with eSpeak which I've put in my home folder as a binary. speak speaks to a wave file but I cannot get it working with speech dispatcher neither in Gnome via Gnopernicus nor by using the spd-say utility. I can hear no audio when it is supposed to speak. I read about a wave file method which writes out the audio data in a file and plays that. How do you configure this and does it write the file on disk or in memory? As to the configs, here they are heavily snipped (,meaning all comments manually removed and work-wrapping corrected in my Windows terminal emulator). First of all the main config file to which I added espeak and have made no other changes myself (maybe Gnome did some, who knows): vtatila at Sandbox:/etc/speech-dispatcher$ cat speechd.conf IncludePath "/etc/speech-dispatcher/" LogLevel 3 LogFile "/var/log/speech-dispatcher/speech-dispatcher.log" DefaultVolume 100 AddModule "flite" "sd_flite" "flite.conf" "/var/log/speech-dispatcher/flite.log" AddModule "festival" "sd_festival" "festival.conf" "/var/log/speech-dispatcher/festival.log" AddModule "espeak-generic" "sd_generic" "espeak-generic.conf" "/var/log/speech-dispatcher/espeak.log" DefaultModule espeak-generic LanguageDefaultModule "en" "flite" LanguageDefaultModule "cs" "festival" LanguageDefaultModule "es" "festival" Include "clients/emacs.conf" Include "clients/gnome-speech.conf" And now the espeak specific config file. I got this on the Web and copy pasted it. The only thing I've changed is the tilde, as speak is in my home folder. This vtatila is the user I made upon installing Ubuntu and is what I'm currently using. wonder if speech-dispatcher looks into someone else's home. Under which user does it actually run speak? Anyway, here's the config: vtatila at Sandbox:/etc/speech-dispatcher/modules$ cat espeak-generic.conf GenericExecuteSynth \ "echo \"$DATA\" | ~/speak -v $VOICE -s $RATE -a $VOLUME --stdin" AddVoice "en" "male1" "en" AddVoice "en" "male2" "en-b" AddVoice "en" "MALEÂÂ3" "en-d" AddVoice "en" "FEMALE1" "en-f" AddVoice "en" "FEMALE2" "en-fb" AddVoice "en" "FEMALE3" "en-fd" 3AddVoice "en" "CHILD_MALE" "en-c" AddVoice "en" "CHILD_FEMALE" "en-fc" GenericLanguage "en" "english" GenericRateAdd 250 GenericVolumeAdd 10 GenericRateMultiply 100 GenericVolumeMultiply 10 GenericRateForceInteger 1 GenericVolumeForceInteger 1 Debug 0 Finally, here's how the log file looks after trying to use Gnopernicus for a while and running the spd-say command twice. [Mon Oct 2 04:19:54 2006 : 74637] speechd: Reading configuration for pattern emacs:* [Mon Oct 2 04:19:54 2006 : 78147] speechd: Reading configuration for pattern *:gnomespeech:* [Mon Oct 2 04:19:54 2006 : 78219] speechd: Configuration has been read from "/ etc/speech-dispatcher//speechd.conf" [Mon Oct 2 04:19:54 2006 : 78243] speechd: Speech Dispatcher started with 2 o utput modules [Mon Oct 2 04:19:54 2006 : 78296] speechd: Openning socket connection [Mon Oct 2 04:19:54 2006 : 81978] speechd: Speech Dispatcher waiting for client s ... [Mon Oct 2 04:25:09 2006 : 830105] speechd: Connection closed [Mon Oct 2 04:27:09 2006 : 737609] speechd: Connection closed Hope this helps in troubleshooting at least, . -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From garycramblitt at comcast.net Mon Oct 2 03:16:22 2006 From: garycramblitt at comcast.net (Gary Cramblitt) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 23:16:22 -0400 Subject: eSpeak not Speaking with Speech-Dispatcher although Festival Does: Here're the Logs and Configs In-Reply-To: <000301c6e5b1$003ba9c0$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <000301c6e5b1$003ba9c0$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <200610012316.22854.garycramblitt@comcast.net> On Sunday 01 October 2006 19:26, Veli-Pekka Tätilä wrote: > And now the espeak specific config file. I got this on the Web and copy > pasted it. The only thing I've changed is the tilde, as speak is in my home > folder. This vtatila is the user I made upon installing Ubuntu and is what > I'm currently using. wonder if speech-dispatcher looks into someone else's > home. Under which user does it actually run speak? Anyway, here's the > config: > > vtatila at Sandbox:/etc/speech-dispatcher/modules$ cat espeak-generic.conf > GenericExecuteSynth \ > "echo \"$DATA\" | ~/speak -v $VOICE -s $RATE -a $VOLUME --stdin" speech-dispatcher normally runs as user speech-dispatcher, so I doubt it is finding the speak executable. You probably need to change ~ to /home/vtatila. And make sure it has execute privilege for user speech-dispatcher. Or install espeak into the path and remove the "~/". If that doesn't work because of a conflict over the audio device, try this line: GenericExecuteSynth \ "echo \"$DATA\" | /home/vtatila/speak -w /tmp/espeak.wav -v $VOICE -s $RATE -a $VOLUME -p $PITCH --stdin && aplay /tmp/espeak.wav" This creates a temporary wav file and plays it with the alsa aplay utility. -- Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad) From pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr Mon Oct 2 08:26:55 2006 From: pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr (gps48) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:26:55 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63511] firefox crash References: <20061002082655.3619.97156.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061002082655.3619.97156.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: always the same crash on my device AMD 64 when i'm with frenc assistive technologie i can't use firefox more than 1 minute ! thanks GPS ** Affects: at-spi (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: Unconfirmed -- firefox crash https://launchpad.net/bugs/63511 From aaronleventhal at moonset.net Mon Oct 2 00:43:54 2006 From: aaronleventhal at moonset.net (Aaron Leventhal) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 20:43:54 -0400 Subject: A newbie question to firefox users out there In-Reply-To: <451E642A.9070509@ubuntu.com> References: <451E49A4.1050502@kristersplace.ws> <451E642A.9070509@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <452060CA.2000104@moonset.net> It won't just be a matter of updating Firefox. We're going for a long term approach here, that requires updates to the ATK/AT-SPI infrastructure as well as to the screen readers (Orca and LSR). As far as improving document navigation, it will likely require that either the screen readers take control of document navigation (ala JAWS and Window-Eyes), or they install an extension which controls caret navigation. However, I don't want to assume anything about how each screen reader developer plans to move forward. Another idea that has been discussed is just fixing the built-in Firefox caret navigation that people are using now. However, this is way harder than it sounds, and it's already been discussed quite a bit. I don't get much involved in Mozilla keyboard support anymore, but I'd have to warn off anyone who wants to fix that code, since it's in ancient hairy Mozilla layout code. Therefore, I'm recommending the options I stated at the top of this email. The bottom line is that this is a work in progress. The screen reader developers for Orca and LSR have builds of Firefox now where they can see the overhauled AT-SPI support, but they still can't use collections yet (which will allow them very fast access to document structure). We will have to ask the developers of Orca and LSR what they think their ideal schedule would be for a beta, assuming 1) the Firefox overhaul continues well into the polishing phase and 2) we get collections into the infrastructure (although I don't want to assume that all screen reader developers want to use them). - Aaron Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Krister Ekstrom wrote: >> Hi and sorry for the cross posting. >> I understand that blind Ubuntu users use Mozilla Firefox with at least >> moderate success with Orca. I have tried the Firefox that comes with the >> latest Edgy, Bon echo beta 2 and on pages that don't contain tables or >> frames or forms, things seem to work very smoothly, however on pages >> with tables, forms, frames etc the cursor tends to get stuck and either >> i hear the same line spoken over and over or i don't hear anything at >> all. Has anyone else the same experience or is there something somewhere >> in Gnome, Firefox or elsewhere that needs to be changed? >> Thanks for any help. >> > > Hi Krister, > > I believe this is the current state of Firefox access. A major > overhaul of accessibility support is planned for Firefox 3 (which I > guess will be out in 9 months or so?) See the mozilla access page for > more info: http://www.mozilla.org/access/ > > I've taken the liberty of copying in Aaron Leventhal, lead of the > mozilla accessibility effort on this mail, so he can correct any > mistakes I've made :) > > When we start seeing Firefox 3 code that runs reasonably well, I'd > like to see ubuntu packages made available somewhere (or other simple > ways of installing on Ubuntu) so our user community can help test the > bleeding edge for access issues and feed back to the mozilladevs > working on it. > > Henrik > From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Oct 2 08:41:27 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:41:27 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63511] Re: firefox crash References: <20061002082655.3619.97156.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061002084128.2244.78121.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Thanks for your bug report. Can you attach a backtrace of the crash? (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace) - maybe apport caught a crash report of it? ** Changed in: at-spi (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided => Medium Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Desktop Bugs Status: Unconfirmed => Needs Info -- firefox crash https://launchpad.net/bugs/63511 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Oct 2 09:01:15 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:01:15 -0000 Subject: [Bug 35520] Re: gconf-editor crashes adding string to list References: <20060318224452.26204.13434.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061002090115.2315.12178.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Do you still have that issue with Dapper or Edgy? ** Changed in: gail (Ubuntu) Status: Unconfirmed => Needs Info -- gconf-editor crashes adding string to list https://launchpad.net/bugs/35520 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Oct 2 09:25:50 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:25:50 -0000 Subject: [Bug 58701] Re: Calc - AT-SPI causes crash References: <20060903115752.26465.83138.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061002092550.3619.90096.launchpad@gandwana.ubuntu.com> ** Changed in: at-spi (Ubuntu) Assignee: (unassigned) => Matthias Klose Status: Needs Info => Fix Committed -- Calc - AT-SPI causes crash https://launchpad.net/bugs/58701 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Oct 2 09:27:20 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:27:20 -0000 Subject: [Bug 42957] Re: Control mouse with keyboard crash X References: <20060504161938.7739.19480.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061002092721.2315.21493.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Thanks for your bug report. Do you still have the problem with Dapper or Edgy? ** Changed in: Ubuntu Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Desktop Bugs Status: Unconfirmed => Needs Info -- Control mouse with keyboard crash X https://launchpad.net/bugs/42957 From bbourgoi at free.fr Mon Oct 2 12:23:19 2006 From: bbourgoi at free.fr (Brice Bourgoin) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:23:19 -0000 Subject: [Bug 42957] Re: Control mouse with keyboard crash X References: <20060504161938.7739.19480.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061002122319.3663.39698.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> It was with dapper with hard install and with the livecd. I didn't install edgy yet, but with the edgy livecd the problem doesn't occur. What should we do, close the bug or wait for installing edgy to confirm it's fix? -- Control mouse with keyboard crash X https://launchpad.net/bugs/42957 From William.Walker at Sun.COM Mon Oct 2 14:06:28 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 10:06:28 -0400 Subject: a possible change needed. In-Reply-To: <0J6D00101R86KSB8@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6D00101R86KSB8@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <1159797989.28444.82.camel@localhost> Hi Mike: It looks like you've found a bug. Orca used to exit when you logged out from your session, but it appears as though it doesn't do so anymore. I think the reason is that for v1.0.0 we put a script in place to automatically restart Orca if it detected that something bad happened. It looks as though logging out from your session is being treated as one of those bad things. We'll look into this. BTW, If you want to exit Orca, you can press Insert+Q to exit it (the latest stuff in GNOME CVS HEAD brings up a quit dialog, the stuff in v1.0.0 just quits without question). You can also run "orca --quit" from the command line. Hope this helps! Will On Fri, 2006-09-29 at 19:40 -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi when I downloaded some of the games available for my kids, > after starting one and exiting orca no longer speaks. > Logging in again doesn't correct the problem. > Apparently once orca is started if you log out and back in again it is still running. > I had to use ctrl alt back space to kill the gnome session. > My question is can orca be easily shut down. > If not is there a way to set it so it doesn't come back automatic after killing gnome and it restarts. > The box for orca is not checked. > Mike. > From tasadarf at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 14:08:27 2006 From: tasadarf at gmail.com (tasadar_f) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:08:27 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061002140827.3619.85038.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have similar error ** Attachment added: "auto report" http://librarian.launchpad.net/4607343/_usr_lib_at-spi_at-spi-registryd.1000.crash -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Oct 2 14:27:00 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:27:00 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061002142700.2315.36126.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> tasadar_f: your report does not contain a backtrace either. -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From kenny at hittsjunk.net Mon Oct 2 15:20:09 2006 From: kenny at hittsjunk.net (Kenny Hitt) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 10:20:09 -0500 Subject: I have two questions. In-Reply-To: <0J6G0056MRO3JLJ9@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6G0056MRO3JLJ9@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20061002152009.GA24647@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Hi. The volume control is the icon just to the left of the clock on the top pannel. Orca reads it as "icon". You will have to edit /etc/apt/sources.list as root and uncomment the lInes for universe. Although you can do it in a Gnome session, it won't be easy. The best way to edit files in /etc as root is to use the text console and either speakup or brltty as your screen reader. Kenny On Sun, Oct 01, 2006 at 10:43:16AM -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, I asked about this before, but maybe the message didn't get out. > 1, How do I change the volume in edgy. I don't find a control for this. > 2, I am having a hard time trying to enable universe. > The following is listed for dapper. > Adding Extra Repositories > X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0639-4, 09/29/2006), Outbound message > X-Antivirus-Status: Clean > > To enable the extra repositories: > > Open System->Administration->Software Properties . > > Select Add > > To enable the Universe repository, check the Community Maintained (Universe) button. > > [Note] > > Adding this repository will mean that the majority of the Free Software universe will be available to install on your system. This software is supported > by a carefully selected group of volunteers within the Ubuntu Community, but is not supported by the core Ubuntu development team and may not include security > In edgy there is no software properties. > I tried to edit the file, but it is read only. > I tried to open the file with administration privileges in terminal and orca stopped speaking. > Has anyone been able to do this in edgy. > Thanks Mike. > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From kb8aey at verizon.net Mon Oct 2 16:49:24 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:49:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: problems with orca. Message-ID: <0J6I00MW0PEB05E0@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, I tried to use the emac speech with orca and now get no speech. Is there a way to set it back to the default with the keyboard. Thanks Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-0, 10/02/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From researchbase at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 17:00:54 2006 From: researchbase at gmail.com (krishnakant Mane) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 22:30:54 +0530 Subject: new to web page accessibility, want to help in coding. Message-ID: hello, I have been observing a lot of emails asking about the status of firefox accessibility with orca. I have also posted on the same issue a couple of times. I will however like to mention a particular point. it seams that the complete accessibility for firefox wont appear on the desktop for about 1 year at least. so I will like to make my contribution. I have also mentioned this previously that I am a good c and python developer. I want to know how web accessibility works on a conceptual level. I will particularly like to know what approach orca is taking for web accessibility including accessibility for html forms etc. I will then like to get into the firefox accessibility. may be I will do some work from scratch or may be I will like to contribute if it will create any impact on the timeline. Krishnakant From William.Walker at Sun.COM Mon Oct 2 18:05:19 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:05:19 -0400 Subject: new to web page accessibility, want to help in coding. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1159812319.31947.114.camel@localhost> Hi Krishnakant: There will be several interim releases of Firefox (and Orca) between now and the time Firefox 3 is released. In addition, all the work will be done in the public eye so things will not remain mysterious boxes of ooze that are tossed over the wall. If you will be the the Boston area on October 9, there's an accessiblity summit that includes an architectural discussion to it: http://live.gnome.org/Boston2006/AccessibilitySummit We can also try to take some minutes of the summit to help others who won't be able to attend. With respect to Firefox, the thing I'd most like to see fixed is the caret navigation problem. The general message I get from the Firefox accessibility lead is that it's too hard of a problem for them and nobody wants to work on it. In other words, if we want it to work, we need to fix it ourselves (the beauty of open source!!!). Maybe a fresh set of eyes on the problem might yield something. After that, there's differences in between the AT-SPI implementation of the Gecko toolkit of Firefox and the semi-defacto standard implementation in GNOME's GTK+. Part of me wants to wrestle with getting Gecko to do it the GTK way, but the other part of me says to ignore that battle and just work around the differences using the Orca script. Right now, the general feeling I'm getting is that requests of this sort will be too hard for the Firefox team to do, so we're better off spending our time working around the differences via the Orca script for Gecko. In any case, most of this type of stuff just covers the GUI components like push buttons, text areas, etc., which is the least interesting facet of the browser accessibility problem. The most important thing we need to focus on in Orca is interpreting Firefox's AT-SPI implementation when it comes to the document content itself. This is where I expect we'll be spending the bulk of our time. If you have a large amount of experience in interpreting DOM objects, mucking with DHTML, etc., and don't mind using applications such as "at-poke" to pore through big widget hierarchies, you might be able to help us out here. Will On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 22:30 +0530, krishnakant Mane wrote: > hello, > I have been observing a lot of emails asking about the status of > firefox accessibility with orca. > I have also posted on the same issue a couple of times. > I will however like to mention a particular point. > it seams that the complete accessibility for firefox wont appear on > the desktop for about 1 year at least. > so I will like to make my contribution. > I have also mentioned this previously that I am a good c and python developer. > I want to know how web accessibility works on a conceptual level. > I will particularly like to know what approach orca is taking for web > accessibility including accessibility for html forms etc. > I will then like to get into the firefox accessibility. may be I will > do some work from scratch or may be I will like to contribute if it > will create any impact on the timeline. > Krishnakant > From kb8aey at verizon.net Mon Oct 2 18:28:17 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:28:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: anyone know a good ac3 filter Message-ID: <0J6I00L72TZ4Y980@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, I have some video files that have ac-3 sound. Is there a ac3 filter I can download. Thanks Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-0, 10/02/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From cerdiogenes at yahoo.com.br Mon Oct 2 19:03:42 2006 From: cerdiogenes at yahoo.com.br (Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?=) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:03:42 -0300 Subject: anyone know a good ac3 filter In-Reply-To: <0J6I00L72TZ4Y980@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6I00L72TZ4Y980@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <1159815822.5189.1.camel@localhost> Hi, You could install liba52. This is a library for decoding ATSC A/52 streams, that is also known as AC-3. Best regards, Carlos. Em Seg, 2006-10-02 às 13:28 -0500, mike coulombe escreveu: > Hi, I have some video files that have ac-3 sound. > Is there a ac3 filter I can download. Thanks Mike. > X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-0, 10/02/2006), Outbound message > X-Antivirus-Status: Clean > > _______________________________________________________ Novidade no Yahoo! Mail: receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho agora! http://br.mobile.yahoo.com/mailalertas/ From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Mon Oct 2 19:22:41 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 22:22:41 +0300 Subject: Sudo in Gnome, cp & Wildcards, Invert Selection (OT?) Message-ID: <000301c6e658$2458fcc0$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi, And thanks for the tip about the wrong home folder in my last thread. I'm now attempting to fix some things related to that but am running into problems again. I'm trying to move or copy my eSpeak installation from the home folder to usr/bin. It seems my ordinary user account has no rights to do that. So my question is, how do I perform some Gnome commands as the super user such as when copying or editing files? I cannot see a run as command or something similar. I read that there are some sudo frontends such as gksu but have failed to find them. Amazingly the book Beginning Ubuntu Linux, although it gives plenty of examples of using sudo itself, does not cover its graphical equivalent as far as I can tell. SO what's the Gnome equivalent of sudo used in Gnome and how do I use it? All of my sighted LInux friends are using KDE, and they bash Gnome big time wishing that QT4 would catch on. They also seem to know very little about Gnome itself, which is a pitty. Well I'd use KDE myself, if I could. Still waiting for that to happen. I've tried copying via the command-line but managed to mess up something, I think. I ran the following:; /usr/bin$ sudo cp -r ~vtatila/* Password: cp: target `/home/vtatila/speak' is not a directory Mind you my command-line background is in DOs and command-line ports of Windows apps. So in that context it would copy all the files specified by the wildcard to the current folder . But this is Unix. And I realized too late that it Expands wildcards into a flat list of arguments (which always makes me want to draw analogies to passing arrays in Perl subs). The copy syntax is: cp [OPTION]... SOURCE... DIRECTORY So I truely hope it interpreted all the matching files but one as the source and tried to use the last one, as the target folder. SO no real harm done. But not confirming by default, having no undo like the Bin in Windows and not being verbose when you work interactively in the shell is getting on my nerves. I was afraid I did something fatal so obviously root powers aren't really good for me at this point, . At times I can identify very strongly with the Unix haters handbook. Needless to say I'd rather do this stuff via the GUI to play it safe. SO back to my question again, how do I run super-user stuff in Gnome without having to give my ordinary user account too many rights? Also, on a side note, is there an invert selection command in Gnome? It would rock if I need to select all but very few files. Currently my Windows magnifier only tracks the VmWare mouse so it makes many keybord operations in Gnome very difficult to follow because it means manual tracking with the magnified mouse. BTW: Are threads like this OT? I do realize very little about this is truely specific to Linux accessibility. If this is a problem, I'm perfectly willing to take those of my questions, which have no direct bearing on accessibility, to some other newbie-friendly list, too. I can also be less verbose, although generally speaking I liek to compose long mails on most lists, as you might have noticed. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Mon Oct 2 21:49:24 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 00:49:24 +0300 Subject: Speech Works Now, Quic Qs about Dispatcher Tweaking and Magnification Message-ID: <000301c6e66c$a3b2d360$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi, Just reporting that eSPeak speaks with speech-Dispatcher now. Great stuff. I think this is much more intelligible and responsive than Festival is. Now I can start looking into all the GUi tools in Gnome and Ubuntu, getting to know Orca and other such things. One quick question, though: Is there a good, canonical speech-dispatcher config for eSpeak? The one I'm using is old enough not to include pitch at all and it doesn't seem able to use the full range of speech rates either. Any tips about the offsets and multipliers available in eSpeak would be appreciated. I'll look into this on my own, too, now that I can do this properly. I still don't think too highly of the Gnopernicus magnifier. Does Orca include one? I'd relly like to dock it at the bottom of the screen but canot figure out how, in the magnification dialog. After having changed the mouse pointer to a big red one and the desktop background to dark blue the system already feels much better and cozier with the limited sight I still have left. I'm going to try my hand at creating an accessible theme that works well with my sight at some point. let's see if I've got better luck than with Debian a couple of years back. As usual, I'll continue to post regarding any major problems or observations about Ubuntu accessibility. Getting the speech up and running with a screen reader is a huge win for me personally and makes it so much easier to actually start using and troubleshooting the system. This is the second time ever I've gotten a LInux system up to this point and I'm going to make a snapshot of this virtual machine right about now. Done. Thanks to all of you people taking part in these mini threads of mine. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From jsd at clara.co.uk Mon Oct 2 21:54:48 2006 From: jsd at clara.co.uk (Jonathan Duddington) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 22:54:48 +0100 Subject: Sudo in Gnome, cp & Wildcards, Invert Selection (OT?) In-Reply-To: <000301c6e658$2458fcc0$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <000301c6e658$2458fcc0$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <4e6fb393a9jsd@clara.co.uk> In article <000301c6e658$2458fcc0$7901a8c0 at centrino>, Veli-Pekka Tätilä wrote: > It seems my ordinary user account has no rights to do that. So my > question is, how do I perform some Gnome commands as the super user > such as when copying or editing files? I normally use a Ubuntu based system with a KDE front-end (the MEPIS 6 distro), so these things are a bit of a puzzle for me too. On MEPIS, there's a system menu entry for "File Manager - Super User mode", which is what I'd use for this (if you want a GUI interface). It seems that you can do the same on Ubuntu/Gnome by typing the command in the console: sudo nautilus and then giving your password. "nautilus" is the Gnome GUI file manager. > Also, on a side note, is there an invert selection command in Gnome? > It would rock if I need to select all but very few files. In a GUI window? Select all and then CTRL-click on the items that you want to deselect. CTRL-click toggles the selection of an item. I think that's the same as Windows. From jsd at clara.co.uk Mon Oct 2 22:02:31 2006 From: jsd at clara.co.uk (Jonathan Duddington) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:02:31 +0100 Subject: Speech Works Now, Quic Qs about Dispatcher Tweaking and Magnification In-Reply-To: <000301c6e66c$a3b2d360$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <000301c6e66c$a3b2d360$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <4e6fb4489djsd@clara.co.uk> In article <000301c6e66c$a3b2d360$7901a8c0 at centrino>, Veli-Pekka Tätilä wrote: > Just reporting that eSPeak speaks with speech-Dispatcher now. Great > stuff. I think this is much more intelligible and responsive than > Festival is. Is it speaking Finnish yet? :-) > Is there a good, canonical speech-dispatcher config for eSpeak? The one that you listed previously is indeed old. They should be file names in espeak-data/voices. > AddVoice "en" "male1" "en" > AddVoice "en" "male2" "en-b" > AddVoice "en" "MALE3" "en-d" etc. The "en" voice for "male1" is OK, but the other voice names have have changed ("been rationalized" :-) You could try the Speakup mailing list. http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup There are knowledgeable users of Speech Dispatcher plus eSpeak there, and also there has been recent discussion of Orca. From scottyhudson at tds.net Mon Oct 2 13:08:21 2006 From: scottyhudson at tds.net (Scotty Hudson) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:08:21 -0000 Subject: [Bug 56452] Re: Edgy: at-spi Crashes frequently (crash reports no longer necessary) References: <20060815125321.24756.14980.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> <20060923061719.23036.33821.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1159794501.4889.0.camel@ubuntu-main> yes On Sat, 2006-09-23 at 06:17 +0000, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Can I take the silence as "Bug is Fixed"? > -- Edgy: at-spi Crashes frequently (crash reports no longer necessary) https://launchpad.net/bugs/56452 From kb8aey at verizon.net Tue Oct 3 02:11:06 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 21:11:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: does anyone know about espeak. Message-ID: <0J6J006PZFEG3GJ1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi I was told there is a program called e-speak. Does anyone know anything about it and what it will work with. Thanks Mike. From kb8aey at verizon.net Tue Oct 3 05:09:02 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:09:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: I get this arror when using apt-get Message-ID: <0J6J007UQNN1FVX1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Hi when updating apt-get I get a wpg error. At least I think that is what orca is saying. Yet it seems to update because I was able to get the packages I asked for. I never could edit the sources.list file. So I had a sight person enable in the package manager. I assume apt-get uses the same packages. Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-0, 10/02/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Tue Oct 3 05:13:57 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:13:57 +0300 Subject: does anyone know about espeak. References: <0J6J006PZFEG3GJ1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <002d01c6e6aa$bde33250$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi Mike, Well, eSpeak is a smallish open-source speech synth. It is formant based unlike Festival, meaning that it builds up the sound out of sine waves mostly, as opposed to concatenating and interpolating samples of real human speech. You suffer a big hit in naturalness but in return formant voices scale much better, in terms of intelligibility and are much easier to edit. In my experience, formant synths seem to have a smaller memory footprint, too, and are sometimes more responsive or less CPU intensive depending on how complex synthesis is being done. Dolphin's Orpheus and Eti Eloquence in Windows are both formant synths where as the MS, L&H or AT&T synths are not, for example. In Linux, I think eSpeak might be the only software based formant solution. eSpeak is already multi-lingual and I'm working with the author to introduce rudimentary Finnish support to the synth over time, for example. The author is Jonathan Duddington who is also posting on this list and did so just recently. eSPeak is available as a Ubuntu and Debian compatible binary release at Source Forge: http://espeak.sourceforge.net/ eSpeak works, with tweaking, with all the apps supporting speech dispatcher such as Gnopernicus, Orca and Emacs Speak I think. It can also be driven on the command-line. I'm going to add eSpeak on my list of speech synth reviews once I become familiar enough with the program. PS: Hope top-posting as is typical of groups with VI-people, is OK here too. I seem to have done just that out of habit, If not, I can easily switch to heavily snipped in-the-middle posting. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ mike coulombe wrote: > Hi I was told there is a program called e-speak. > Does anyone know anything about it and what it will work with. From peneycad118 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Oct 2 22:08:47 2006 From: peneycad118 at yahoo.co.uk (Michael) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 22:08:47 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061002220847.2315.60106.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I have a similar bug ** Attachment added: "ouput" http://librarian.launchpad.net/4619523/_usr_lib_at-spi_at-spi-registryd.1000.crash -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From bugwatch at bugs.launchpad.net Tue Oct 3 07:45:18 2006 From: bugwatch at bugs.launchpad.net (Bug Watch Updater) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 07:45:18 -0000 Subject: [Bug 59531] Re: Add a 'Quit Orca' button References: <20060908143355.16647.56054.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061003074554.28049.91861.launchpad@gangotri.ubuntu.com> ** Changed in: gnome-desktop (upstream) Status: Confirmed => Fix Released -- Add a 'Quit Orca' button https://launchpad.net/bugs/59531 From stevenk at debian.org Tue Oct 3 08:55:44 2006 From: stevenk at debian.org (Steve Kowalik) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 08:55:44 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061003085544.2315.76678.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I have seen this as well. However, it is problematic to generate a backtrace from at-spi-registryd, as it drops to T state (in ps aux) whenever you attach to it using either gdb or strace, and kill -CONT'ing it does not help, and it actually makes Gnome in general not respond. I am more than willing to help debug this problem, but not while it can't be debugged by the means pointed out in the wiki page you linked to. -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Oct 3 13:19:40 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:19:40 +0200 Subject: Team meeting Message-ID: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> Hello! It's been a long time since we've had a meeting of the Ubuntu Accessibility Team so it would be good to pick up on that again. We've been working away at the items discussed in the meetings this spring though. The main focus of this meeting should be on nailing down the accessibility support for Edgy. This includes testing of Live CDs, AT tools like Orca and onBoard, the general desktop and common applications like OpenOffice, Gaim and Firefox. (as I write this the wiki seems down, but I'll edit this page when it's back: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda) I suggest we *not* talk about new features this time since we really should focus on the above, but we should schedule another meeting after a week or two for that. In the meantime you can post your ideas on this wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Ideas/Edgy+1 on on the list or to the forums (wiki is preferred). It seems Friday might be a good day. Any time from 08.00 GMT to 20.00 GMT would work for me. Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Oct 3 14:00:12 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 16:00:12 +0200 Subject: does anyone know about espeak. In-Reply-To: <002d01c6e6aa$bde33250$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <0J6J006PZFEG3GJ1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> <002d01c6e6aa$bde33250$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <45226CEC.3060600@ubuntu.com> Veli-Pekka Tätilä wrote: > In my experience, formant synths seem to have a smaller memory footprint, > too, and are sometimes more responsive or less CPU intensive depending on > how complex synthesis is being done. > We are considering using eSpeak as the default synth for the next version of the Live CD so that we can fit more languages on the disc. We should make sure that it's easy to install other synths and voices later, such as Festival. I'd also like to look at using mbrola, though that would have to go in 'multiverse' since it's not really 'Free'. I'd be interested to hear people's views on the relative quality of the voices. Some samples can be found here: http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/mbrola.html > > PS: Hope top-posting as is typical of groups with VI-people, is OK here too. > I seem to have done just that out of habit, If not, I can easily switch to > heavily snipped in-the-middle posting. > I'm sure both are fine. I just middle-post from habit now :) Henrik From themuso at themuso.com Tue Oct 3 14:06:00 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 00:06:00 +1000 Subject: Team meeting In-Reply-To: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> References: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061003140600.GA17847@themuso.com> On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 11:19:40PM EST, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Hello! > > It's been a long time since we've had a meeting of the Ubuntu > Accessibility Team so it would be good to pick up on that again. We've > been working away at the items discussed in the meetings this spring though. I was only wondering whether/when we would have another meeting, Friday sounds good. > The main focus of this meeting should be on nailing down the > accessibility support for Edgy. This includes testing of Live CDs, AT > tools like Orca and onBoard, the general desktop and common applications > like OpenOffice, Gaim and Firefox. (as I write this the wiki seems down, > but I'll edit this page when it's back: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda) I'll have a think, and jot things down if I think of them. > I suggest we *not* talk about new features this time since we really > should focus on the above, but we should schedule another meeting after > a week or two for that. In the meantime you can post your ideas on this > wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Ideas/Edgy+1 on on the > list or to the forums (wiki is preferred). Goodo, we still have some specs that were drafted and approved in Paris, but still haven't seen the full light of day. Thats something I wanna see happen this release for a start. :) > It seems Friday might be a good day. Any time from 08.00 GMT to 20.00 > GMT would work for me. I'd rather do it earlier in that time frame, as it is often easier to stay up late, than to have to get up early. Between 10:00 and 15:00 GMT would suit me best. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com Jabber: themuso at jabber.org.au -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Oct 3 14:13:44 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 16:13:44 +0200 Subject: Team meeting In-Reply-To: <20061003140600.GA17847@themuso.com> References: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> <20061003140600.GA17847@themuso.com> Message-ID: <45227018.9010806@ubuntu.com> Luke Yelavich wrote: >> It seems Friday might be a good day. Any time from 08.00 GMT to 20.00 >> GMT would work for me. >> > > I'd rather do it earlier in that time frame, as it is often easier to > stay up late, than to have to get up early. Between 10:00 and 15:00 GMT > would suit me best. > Earlier would actually be preferred for me as well (10.00 GMT, say). It's very bad for the Americas of course, but we can try a different time for the next one. That should be more interesting for most people anyway. Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Oct 3 14:37:34 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:37:34 -0000 Subject: [Bug 58701] Re: Calc - AT-SPI causes crash References: <20060903115752.26465.83138.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061003143734.8352.63484.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> No crashes for several days with your test version, nor with today's update. Marking as fixed. ** Changed in: at-spi (Ubuntu) Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released -- Calc - AT-SPI causes crash https://launchpad.net/bugs/58701 From pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr Tue Oct 3 14:52:50 2006 From: pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr (gps48) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:52:50 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63773] no starting of speech References: <20061003145250.5260.52209.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061003145250.5260.52209.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: i'm on amd 64 and when i want to go to firefox beta 2 i don't have speech ! i'm a french user and ithis bug appears often. ** Affects: gnome-speech (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: Unconfirmed -- no starting of speech https://launchpad.net/bugs/63773 From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Oct 3 16:36:58 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 16:36:58 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061003163658.5185.79791.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I've not had any crashes after today's update. Anyone else? I've tried to stress it a bit by killing and restarting it as well. -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From s.bienlein at gmx.de Tue Oct 3 17:07:48 2006 From: s.bienlein at gmx.de (Simon Bienlein) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 19:07:48 +0200 Subject: Problems when starting orca on live cd Message-ID: <004601c6e70e$746d0ce0$c864a8c0@simonlaptop> Hi, As described on I booted from the Knot-3 cd and then waited for some minutes. After the jingle I pressed Ctrl-Alt-F1. Then, I was asked to login. With which admission data do I have to login to be able to start orca? I couldn't find anything in the forum about this. Maybe, the how-to should be updated in this regard. Best regards, Simon From krister at kristersplace.ws Tue Oct 3 17:29:06 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 19:29:06 +0200 Subject: does anyone know about espeak. In-Reply-To: <45228CB6.8060007@ubuntu.com> References: <0J6J006PZFEG3GJ1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> <002d01c6e6aa$bde33250$7901a8c0@centrino> <45226CEC.3060600@ubuntu.com> <45228A4A.1010405@kristersplace.ws> <45228CB6.8060007@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <45229DE2.1020708@kristersplace.ws> Hi, i didn't think the MBrola was actively developed... Oh well... The Swedish voices were ok, however there weren't much sampled as far as i could see at a fast glance. It'd be cool if these voices could be included in Edgy or a later release of Ubuntu, but we'll have to see if it is able to speak what we want it to speak. I heard somewhere that instead of numbers over 1000 or somesuch it just said "very much" ("väldigt mycket") and that's not so good.:-) Yes, the letter was intended for the list. I'll forward this one since your previous reply is quoted below. Thanks, /Krister Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Krister Ekstrom wrote: >> Hi, >> Too bad there's no speech synth around that's capable of speaking >> Swedish. If i were a programmer, i'd gladly help with making Swedish >> available, but unfortunately i'm not. Hope a swedish synth comes along >> soon, would be cool to be able to switch languages and synths and use a >> Swedish Linux. >> > > Please listen to the Swedish voices here: > http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/mbrola.html and see what you think. We > might be able to put that in a non-free repository. > > > btw, did you intend this for the list? If so you can just forward it. > > Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Oct 3 19:19:47 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 19:19:47 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061003191947.8352.62836.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Meh, spoke too soon. I just got the crash again :( However, some observations: First there are two copies of at-spi- registryd running in gnome, one as user and one as root. When I try tol attach gdb to the user version PID I get a general Gnome freeze as Steve says. If I start KDE from GDM instead of Gnome I get zero copies of at-spi- registryd running (no surprise there). When I then start orca from KDE I get ONE copy of at-spi-registryd and that one accepts a gdb attach. So my plan now is to run that and start lots of gnome apps in Gnome and see if I can provoke a crash. -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From kb8aey at verizon.net Tue Oct 3 19:37:42 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:37:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: is there a way to read a table. Message-ID: <0J6K00476RUTK4Z2@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, using guesswork I was able to install using add remove in gnome. After entering the password there is no speech, but I wait a minute or two, press tab twice and then enter. There is no way to know when it is finished, so I give it a lot of time and then press enter. If all goes well I get speech again when things are turned back over to ad remove. What it says is new applications. Orca then says table, but I don't see a way to read the table with the arrow keys. Has anyone found a way to do this. Thanks Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-1, 10/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From kenny at hittsjunk.net Tue Oct 3 21:20:50 2006 From: kenny at hittsjunk.net (Kenny Hitt) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:20:50 -0500 Subject: is there a way to read a table. In-Reply-To: <0J6K00476RUTK4Z2@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6K00476RUTK4Z2@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20061003212050.GA28927@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> After you finish running add/remove programs, there isn't any thing in the table to read. You really should get orca running as root so you will be able to keep access to the add/remove app after you give it the password. If you don't, you will someday get in trouble because you won't be able to configure a package you install. Kenny On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 02:37:42PM -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, using guesswork I was able to install using add remove in gnome. > After entering the password there is no speech, > but I wait a minute or two, press tab twice and then enter. > There is no way to know when it is finished, > so I give it a lot of time and then press enter. > If all goes well I get speech again when things are turned back over to ad remove. > What it says is new applications. Orca then says table, but I don't see a way to read the table with the arrow keys. > Has anyone found a way to do this. > Thanks Mike. > X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-1, 10/03/2006), Outbound message > X-Antivirus-Status: Clean > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Tue Oct 3 22:40:21 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 00:40:21 +0200 Subject: Team meeting In-Reply-To: <45227018.9010806@ubuntu.com> References: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> <20061003140600.GA17847@themuso.com> <45227018.9010806@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1159915221.5919.0.camel@lovegood> Hello, Am Dienstag, den 03.10.2006, 16:13 +0200 schrieb Henrik Nilsen Omma: > Earlier would actually be preferred for me as well (10.00 GMT, say). I'd be happy with 10:00 UTC too. Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From stevenk at debian.org Wed Oct 4 05:03:38 2006 From: stevenk at debian.org (Steve Kowalik) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 05:03:38 -0000 Subject: [Bug 58660] Re: orca menu item fails to launch References: <20060902235204.30981.45692.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061004050339.5260.87549.launchpad@gangotri.ubuntu.com> ** Changed in: orca (Ubuntu) Sourcepackagename: orca => gnome-orca -- orca menu item fails to launch https://launchpad.net/bugs/58660 From feenixx at hotmail.com Wed Oct 4 05:03:39 2006 From: feenixx at hotmail.com (mlind) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 05:03:39 -0000 Subject: [Bug 58660] orca menu item fails to launch References: <20060902235204.30981.45692.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061004050339.5260.39466.launchpad@canonical@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: Starting orca from menu doesn't work as expected. Process dies after short period of time. I can hear voice asking "Enable echo by word? Enter y or n:", but no visible dialog appears make make this choice. Launching orca from terminal produces: $ orca kill: 190: No such process Welcome to Orca setup. Enable echo by word? Enter y or n: >From ~/.xsession-errors: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/orca/orca.py", line 882, in _showPreferencesConsole module.showPreferencesUI() File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/orca/orca_console_prefs.py", line 296, in showPreferencesUI if not setupSpeech(prefsDict): File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/orca/orca_console_prefs.py", line 213, in setupSpeech speechVoiceChoice) File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/orca/orca_console_prefs.py", line 71, in sayAndPrint return raw_input(text) EOFError: EOF when reading a line ** Affects: gnome-orca (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: Unconfirmed -- orca menu item fails to launch https://launchpad.net/bugs/58660 From rkcole72984 at gmail.com Wed Oct 4 06:14:59 2006 From: rkcole72984 at gmail.com (Robert Cole) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 02:14:59 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Edgy: Orca-Magnifier does not follow scrolling in Firefox Message-ID: <6445c94d0610032314q38520e87reb759dc300ab586f@mail.gmail.com> Hello. I apologize if this is a previously stated issue. I am not sure if this is a bug in Orca-Magnifier or Firefox 2.0Beta 2 Accessibility (which I believe is the default browser in Edgy). Basically, when scrolling on a Web page, the magnifier component of Orca does not show the new contents of the browser window until the mouse pointer is moved (i.e. it does not actively show scrolling). I am unsure of which magnifier (gnome-mag or some other magnifier) is used with Orca, but gnome-mag/Gnopernicus did not have this problem when I tested it. Other than that, the magnifier itself works very well (after changing its default position to a top-horizontal split) Thanks for any help on figuring out where this problem stems from. I'll keep on testing and enjoying Edgy! Take care. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Wed Oct 4 06:20:12 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:20:12 +0300 Subject: Orca Qs, Multiple Gnopernicus and brlTTY Issues, Nautilus Views? Message-ID: <000201c6e77d$267248b0$202a140a@centrino> Hi list, A quick morning post. I'll supply you with the exact prompts later today if it is needed: I'm trying to set up both brlTTY and the gnome-orca package and am running into a similar problem. I've written the BrlTTY config for my Voyager display. When running brlTTY, however, it brailles that it cannot find a text screen at all. I'm using a serial console connected to a Windows terminal emulator on the same machine. In that emu, WIndows speech and Braille work well enough. HOwever, I'd still like to use brlTTY in GNome apps like Orca, Gnopernicus or the terminal without having to give up my serial console. Any tips as to what i need to do? Orca seems to face a similar problem when I run it via the serial console. It blurts out a stack backtrace essentially saying that it cannot find the screen. I've also got other issues with Orca: As Festival still doesn't work, I've edited my speech dispatcher config to use eSpeak by default for English. UPon running orca in the Gnome terminal it prints and speaks that it could find the Linux accessibility system and affter that it comes up with no on-screen or spoken prompt. It just sits there waiting for input and I can type in many lines of it from STDIN without anything happening on screen. Hmm, is Orca designed to work with eSPeak initially as opposed to Festival? If all else fails, is there some Python script or config I can hack at to do all the initial setup things manually. If I run Orca directly in the Gnome run box, it starts but I can see no on-screen manifestation of the app nor nothing in the alt+tab dialog. Pressing ins plus space appears to do nothing, I can see no visible change nor hear any dialog appearing. Other than that Orca seems to track the focus and prompts much more sensibly than Gnopernicus does. Which brings me to my last point, is there some file in which I can change the hotkeys? Better yet would be a laptop specific layout. It is no fun trying to press fn, ins and some piece of the emulated laptop numpad on an HP machine at the same time. Many WINdows readers offer laptop layouts. Gnopernicus has trouble with speech, too. I've written a new speech dispatcher config file which should utilize the full pitch, speed, volume and voice range. Yet only speed and volume parameters in the absolute edit mode affect matters. Toggling the voice or changing the annoyingly high pitch does nothing. I have not looked into the logs yet. But might this be a Gnopernicus issue? I'm more inclined to think it is something in my speech Dispatcher config file at the moment. Oh well, a GUI front end and ssmart apps would prevent such issues. Alan Cooper's views on considerate and smart software come to mind. Last and not least a quick Q about the Gnome file manager Nautilus: Are there accessible alternatives to it in the spirit of Xplorer 2 or Total COmmander? It uses the icon view by default whose hotkeys require that you can see how icons are layed out on screenTHis is less than ideal for me. There's also a details like view but unlike in WIndows, one isn't able to edit the order and visibility of individual columns, oh well. This is a must if you'd like to get decent output with Gnopernicus. Gnopernicus also prefixes every terminal prompt and list item with some initial string, that slows down traversing them. In addition to a good details view I would need a plain list view with only the file name in it. It would be great if you could kill the icons in that, too. Icons add very littel in my GUI experience unless there are large blobs of difference in hue, saturation or luminance. THe actual shape of the icon doesn't matter that much, in a way. Here's my latest speech dispatcher config for eSPeak: espeak-generic.conf: # Supports pitch, speed and volume. GenericExecuteSynth \ "echo \"$DATA\" | speak -v $VOICE -s $RATE -a $VOLUME -p $PITCH --stdin" # Includes all the US English. GenericLanguage "en" "english" # GenericLanguage "fi" "finnish" # The naming of some of the untitled US English voices is a bit ad hoc, oh well. AddVoice "en" "Default" "en" AddVoice "en" "Echo" "en1" AddVoice "en" "fuzzy" "en2" AddVoice "en" "English (3)" "en3" AddVoice "en" "Male (4)" "en4" AddVoice "en" "blocked" "en6" AddVoice "en" "Male (7)" "en7" AddVoice "en" "Old" "en8" AddVoice "en" "Croak" "en-croak" AddVoice "en" "Female" "en-f" AddVoice "en" "Lancashire" "en-n" AddVoice "en" "Female (North)" "en-n-f" AddVoice "en" "English rp" "en-rp" AddVoice "en" "English rp-f " "en-rp-f" AddVoice "en" "English wmids" "en-wm" AddVoice "en" "En-wm-f" "en-wm-f" # Here are the multipliers and offsets for exposing the maximum range and resolution from eSpeak. # dispatcher gives values from -100 to 100 and eSpeak supports: # volume 0 to 200, pitch 0 to 99, rate 80 to 320 Words per min # Thus we derive the fixed-point scaling factor (last two digits fractional), and the offset: GenericRateAdd 200 GenericRateMultiply 120 GenericRateForceInteger 1 GenericPitchAdd 100 GenericPitchMultiply 49 GenericPitchForceInteger 1 GenericVolumeAdd 100 GenericVolumeMultiply 100 GenericVolumeForceInteger 1 Debug 0 Which reminds me, do either Gnopernicus or Orca support switching the language of screen text say from English to Finnish? I'm trying to prototype the Finnish eSPeak support and iwould like to use it in the real world such as in e-mail or the Web. SOrry if this mail comes across as more negative than usual: Getting the speech support working was the big win to me but now I'm having a handful of minor but nevertheless annoying issues I'd lie to fix as soon as possible. None of them actually prevent me from using Linux, which is good all in all. But I gotta go now. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From rkcole72984 at gmail.com Wed Oct 4 07:40:12 2006 From: rkcole72984 at gmail.com (Robert Cole) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 03:40:12 -0400 Subject: Update: Re: Ubuntu Edgy: Orca-Magnifier does not follow scrolling in Firefox Message-ID: <6445c94d0610040040i1bbb8744r16219a527fad58b5@mail.gmail.com> Hello again. I reinstalled Gnopernicus to see if there was a difference in the magnifier's ability to show active scrolling in the Firefox browser window. The settings for the magnifier were what I had set for it in Orca, and it does show active scrolling in Gnoernicus. I don't know if this is the case, but while running with Orca it looks as if the magnifier is not caching as it does with Gnopernicus. I sincerely apologize if this was an already-known issue. Take care. I'll keep working with it tomorrow and see fi I can figure anything out. On 10/4/06, Robert Cole wrote: > > Hello. > > I apologize if this is a previously stated issue. > > I am not sure if this is a bug in Orca-Magnifier or Firefox 2.0Beta 2 > Accessibility (which I believe is the default browser in Edgy). Basically, > when scrolling on a Web page, the magnifier component of Orca does not show > the new contents of the browser window until the mouse pointer is moved ( > i.e. it does not actively show scrolling). I am unsure of which magnifier > (gnome-mag or some other magnifier) is used with Orca, but > gnome-mag/Gnopernicus did not have this problem when I tested it. Other > than that, the magnifier itself works very well (after changing its default > position to a top-horizontal split) > > Thanks for any help on figuring out where this problem stems from. > > I'll keep on testing and enjoying Edgy! > > Take care. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 4 07:49:07 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:49:07 -0000 Subject: [Bug 59531] Re: Add a 'Quit Orca' button References: <20060908143355.16647.56054.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061004074908.8501.2439.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Need to check for Ubuntu release. ** Changed in: gnome-orca (Ubuntu) Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Desktop Bugs Target: None => ubuntu-6.10 -- Add a 'Quit Orca' button https://launchpad.net/bugs/59531 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 4 07:52:01 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:52:01 -0000 Subject: [Bug 59531] Re: Add a 'Quit Orca' button References: <20060908143355.16647.56054.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061004075201.5260.5643.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Hum, I just checked the Upstream bug and the patches (that were accepted in CVS for 2.17.x - YAY) differ from the ones used in here. Any reason why we shouldn't sync with Upstream? -- Add a 'Quit Orca' button https://launchpad.net/bugs/59531 From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 4 09:19:38 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:19:38 -0000 Subject: [Bug 59531] Re: Add a 'Quit Orca' button References: <20060908143355.16647.56054.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061004091938.5185.83912.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I have some minor UI nits with their solution, but the main thing is that they have added a quit button. I'm happy to sync with them and propose further changes directly to upstream later. -- Add a 'Quit Orca' button https://launchpad.net/bugs/59531 From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 4 09:27:55 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:27:55 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu Edgy: Orca-Magnifier does not follow scrolling in Firefox In-Reply-To: <6445c94d0610032314q38520e87reb759dc300ab586f@mail.gmail.com> References: <6445c94d0610032314q38520e87reb759dc300ab586f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45237E9B.9010004@ubuntu.com> Robert Cole wrote: > Hello. > > I apologize if this is a previously stated issue. > > I am not sure if this is a bug in Orca-Magnifier or Firefox 2.0Beta 2 > Accessibility (which I believe is the default browser in Edgy). > Basically, when scrolling on a Web page, the magnifier component of > Orca does not show the new contents of the browser window until the > mouse pointer is moved ( i.e. it does not actively show scrolling). I > am unsure of which magnifier (gnome-mag or some other magnifier) is > used with Orca, but gnome-mag/Gnopernicus did not have this problem > when I tested it. Other than that, the magnifier itself works very > well (after changing its default position to a top-horizontal split) I was going to say that this is probably a Firefox issue, but I'm intigued you say that it worked with gnopernicus. They both use gnome-mag. Was this with the same version of Firefox. I'm copying the orca list in case this is a regression in magnifier support (may be a regression in Firefox?) Henrik From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Wed Oct 4 10:14:34 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 12:14:34 +0200 Subject: BrlTTY / orca In-Reply-To: <000201c6e77d$267248b0$202a140a@centrino> References: <000201c6e77d$267248b0$202a140a@centrino> Message-ID: <20061004101434.GF2703@implementation> Hi, Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Wed 04 Oct 2006 09:20:12 +0300, a écrit : > I'm trying to set up both brlTTY and the gnome-orca package and am running > into a similar problem. I've written the BrlTTY config for my Voyager > display. When running brlTTY, however, it brailles that it cannot find a > text screen at all. I'm using a serial console connected to a Windows > terminal emulator on the same machine. In that emu, WIndows speech and > Braille work well enough. HOwever, I'd still like to use brlTTY in GNome > apps like Orca, Gnopernicus or the terminal without having to give up my > serial console. Any tips as to what i need to do? I don't really understand how your system is set up: it looks like your machine runs Linux, and then run Windows within Linux, via some emulator ; is it vmware, qemu? Samuel From kb8aey at verizon.net Wed Oct 4 12:49:41 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:49:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: possible bug with open office Message-ID: <0J6M005DS3MSRH03@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> Hi I noticed twice when I ran the spell checker in open office it started the document recovery. Is this a known problem. Mike. From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Wed Oct 4 13:45:18 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 16:45:18 +0300 Subject: BrlTTY / orca References: <000201c6e77d$267248b0$202a140a@centrino> <20061004101434.GF2703@implementation> Message-ID: <006b01c6e7bb$57716e30$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi Samuel, You mentioned you didn't quite get how my system is set up. Sorry for not providing enough context in this thread. Here's how things basically work: I'm natively running Windows XP and Dolphin Supernova 7, which is a combined screen reader and magnifier. WIthin WIndows I have a pair of virtual serial ports com 1 and com 2 that are connected like a null-modem cable. Additionally, I'm running VmWare Server 1.01 which runs Ubuntu Dapper as a guest OS. There's a serial port in that Linux virtual machine which is connected to the host machine's com2 port. The last component of the puzzle is the terminal emulator TeraTerm which monitors the com 1 port, that being the other end of the virtual null modem cable. In this setup I gave the following boot parameter even before launching the DApper installer: console=ttyS0 on the virtual machine. So what this amounts to is this: I can run LInux inside Windows. ALl the console output in LInux goes via the virtual null modem cable to my Windows terminal emulator. There my WIndows screen reader is able to both speak and braille everything console related with my speech synth and language of choice (including proper Finnish support). From Dapper's point of view it is just using a serial console. Additionally, I get the Gnome display inside VmWare Server, and can use Supernova's magnification to examine the screen and roughly track the virtual machine mouse. VmWare server also supports USB devices and if my WIndows reader is not using it, the LINux virtual machine can see my Braille display (Tieman Voyager). What I'd like to do would be to get brlTTY working in the graphical GNome session and terminal, which is something that my native Windows screen reader can neither speak nor braille, of course. I've already got Gnopernicus speaking but it says it cannot find the braillle display. So that's my setup. It is pretty complex, actually. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ Samuel Thibault wrote: > Hi, > Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Wed 04 Oct 2006 09:20:12 +0300, a écrit : >> I'm trying to set up both brlTTY and the gnome-orca package and am >> running into a similar problem. I've written the BrlTTY config for >> my Voyager display. When running brlTTY, however, it brailles that >> it cannot find a text screen at all. I'm using a serial console >> connected to a Windows terminal emulator on the same machine. In >> that emu, WIndows speech and Braille work well enough. HOwever, I'd >> still like to use brlTTY in GNome apps like Orca, Gnopernicus or the >> terminal without having to give up my serial console. Any tips as to >> what i need to do? > I don't really understand how your system is set up: it looks like > your machine runs Linux, and then run Windows within Linux, via some > emulator ; is it vmware, qemu? From kb8aey at verizon.net Wed Oct 4 13:48:51 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 08:48:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: help with networks Message-ID: <0J6M00E676DEBY15@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, has anyone played with connecting to a network. I see my network, but at first it says it can't connect because it isn't a folder. However if I press enter a few times it does open the folder. It then does this again for the server I want to connect to. I don't have a password, so is there a setting to correct this. Mike. From kenny at hittsjunk.net Wed Oct 4 14:39:16 2006 From: kenny at hittsjunk.net (Kenny Hitt) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:39:16 -0500 Subject: building elinks with javascript support breaks Gnome Message-ID: <20061004143916.GA4361@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Hi. Since Firefox accessibility still has a ways to go, I do most of my web browsing with elinks. Unfortunately, the Ubuntu elinks package has javascript support disabled. When I try to install the libmozjs-dev package needed to get javascript support in elinks, aptitude wants to remove large parts of gnome to satisfy dependencies. Would it be possible to enable javascript support in the Ubuntu elinks package? If not, does anyone know a way to install the libmozjs-dev package so I can build elinks from source without breaking Gnome? Kenny From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 4 14:46:18 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:46:18 +0200 Subject: Team meeting In-Reply-To: <1159915221.5919.0.camel@lovegood> References: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> <20061003140600.GA17847@themuso.com> <45227018.9010806@ubuntu.com> <1159915221.5919.0.camel@lovegood> Message-ID: <4523C93A.9000202@ubuntu.com> Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello, > > Am Dienstag, den 03.10.2006, 16:13 +0200 schrieb Henrik Nilsen Omma: > >> Earlier would actually be preferred for me as well (10.00 GMT, say). >> > > I'd be happy with 10:00 UTC too. > Right, let's go with that then. I've update the agenda. For those new to IRC see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XChatHowto Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 4 16:01:32 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:01:32 +0200 Subject: building elinks with javascript support breaks Gnome In-Reply-To: <20061004143916.GA4361@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> References: <20061004143916.GA4361@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Message-ID: <4523DADC.4080205@ubuntu.com> Hi Kenny, Could you file a bug explaining the situation here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/elinks/+bugs ? Not sure we can do this for Edgy and there may be good reasons why it was disabled. We might be able to make a separate download available though. Henrik Kenny Hitt wrote: > Hi. > > Since Firefox accessibility still has a ways to go, I do most of my web > browsing with elinks. Unfortunately, the Ubuntu elinks package has > javascript support disabled. When I try to install the libmozjs-dev > package needed to get javascript support in elinks, aptitude wants to > remove large parts of gnome to satisfy dependencies. > > Would it be possible to enable javascript support in the Ubuntu elinks > package? If not, does anyone know a way to install the libmozjs-dev > package so I can build elinks from source without breaking Gnome? > From krister at kristersplace.ws Wed Oct 4 17:00:33 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:00:33 +0200 Subject: building elinks with javascript support breaks Gnome In-Reply-To: <20061004143916.GA4361@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> References: <20061004143916.GA4361@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Message-ID: <1159981233.4767.1.camel@krister-desktop> I can confirm that it is so. I tried to install the necessary components to get the Javascript support and had my gnome removed. I had to install it again, and this removed the javascript components... /Krister On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 09:39 -0500, Kenny Hitt wrote: > Hi. > > Since Firefox accessibility still has a ways to go, I do most of my web > browsing with elinks. Unfortunately, the Ubuntu elinks package has > javascript support disabled. When I try to install the libmozjs-dev > package needed to get javascript support in elinks, aptitude wants to > remove large parts of gnome to satisfy dependencies. > > Would it be possible to enable javascript support in the Ubuntu elinks > package? If not, does anyone know a way to install the libmozjs-dev > package so I can build elinks from source without breaking Gnome? > > Kenny > > From krister at kristersplace.ws Wed Oct 4 17:08:39 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:08:39 +0200 Subject: Team meeting In-Reply-To: <4523C93A.9000202@ubuntu.com> References: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> <20061003140600.GA17847@themuso.com> <45227018.9010806@ubuntu.com> <1159915221.5919.0.camel@lovegood> <4523C93A.9000202@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1159981719.4767.6.camel@krister-desktop> On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 16:46 +0200, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > For those new to IRC see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XChatHowto > Will this chat client work with Orca? I assume it does, but ask anyways. Is this a meeting where everyone's invited? Sorry for the newbyish questions. I just don't wanna stomp in where i don't belong. -- /Krister From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 4 17:15:16 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:15:16 +0200 Subject: Team meeting In-Reply-To: <1159981719.4767.6.camel@krister-desktop> References: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> <20061003140600.GA17847@themuso.com> <45227018.9010806@ubuntu.com> <1159915221.5919.0.camel@lovegood> <4523C93A.9000202@ubuntu.com> <1159981719.4767.6.camel@krister-desktop> Message-ID: <1159982116.7077.2.camel@localhost> Hello Krister, Am Mittwoch, den 04.10.2006, 19:08 +0200 schrieb Krister Ekstrom: > Is this a meeting where everyone's invited? absolutely - it's public and going to be in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From kb8aey at verizon.net Wed Oct 4 18:10:52 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:10:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: how often are updates posted. Message-ID: <0J6M00M6FII3KCO3@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, how often are updates posted. I got some this morning, and when I checked a hour later there were 7 more. Are these posted threw out the day. Also I assume since I am using apt-get and the dist-upgrade that I have to run apt-get update each time before asking for a upgrade. Mike. From kb8aey at verizon.net Wed Oct 4 18:52:56 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:52:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: ho do I see file size. Message-ID: <0J6M004LNKG7JXB7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, at one time I was able to hear the file size and date. I think I had to change it to list view. However I don't see this in the menu settings anymore. Has anyone else done this. Mike. From kenny at hittsjunk.net Wed Oct 4 19:20:34 2006 From: kenny at hittsjunk.net (Kenny Hitt) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 14:20:34 -0500 Subject: ho do I see file size. In-Reply-To: <0J6M004LNKG7JXB7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6M004LNKG7JXB7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20061004192034.GA4768@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Hi. If you mean in nautilus, it is in the view menu. Kenny On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 01:52:56PM -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, at one time I was able to hear the file size and date. > I think I had to change it to list view. > However I don't see this in the menu settings anymore. > Has anyone else done this. > Mike. > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From kenny at hittsjunk.net Wed Oct 4 20:10:22 2006 From: kenny at hittsjunk.net (Kenny Hitt) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 15:10:22 -0500 Subject: building elinks with javascript support breaks Gnome In-Reply-To: <4523DADC.4080205@ubuntu.com> References: <20061004143916.GA4361@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> <4523DADC.4080205@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061004201022.GA5212@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Hi. I filed a request to enable javascript support on the elinks package. I would also like to file a bug on the libmozjs-dev package in case the elinks maintainer doesn't want to enable javascript. If libmozjs-dev can be installed, then I can just build my own elinks from source. I'm not familiar with launchpad, so I can't figure out how to file a bug against libmozjs-dev yet. I'll keep poking around until I figure it out. Kenny On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 06:01:32PM +0200, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Hi Kenny, > > Could you file a bug explaining the situation here: > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/elinks/+bugs ? > > Not sure we can do this for Edgy and there may be good reasons why it > was disabled. We might be able to make a separate download available though. > > Henrik > > Kenny Hitt wrote: > > Hi. > > > > Since Firefox accessibility still has a ways to go, I do most of my web > > browsing with elinks. Unfortunately, the Ubuntu elinks package has > > javascript support disabled. When I try to install the libmozjs-dev > > package needed to get javascript support in elinks, aptitude wants to > > remove large parts of gnome to satisfy dependencies. > > > > Would it be possible to enable javascript support in the Ubuntu elinks > > package? If not, does anyone know a way to install the libmozjs-dev > > package so I can build elinks from source without breaking Gnome? > > > > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 4 20:43:17 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:43:17 +0200 Subject: Team meeting In-Reply-To: <1159981719.4767.6.camel@krister-desktop> References: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> <20061003140600.GA17847@themuso.com> <45227018.9010806@ubuntu.com> <1159915221.5919.0.camel@lovegood> <4523C93A.9000202@ubuntu.com> <1159981719.4767.6.camel@krister-desktop> Message-ID: <45241CE5.3010205@ubuntu.com> Krister Ekstrom wrote: > Will this chat client work with Orca? > It should work, but IRC clients are traditionally a bit tricky because of their non-standard layout and information flow (new entries appearing with time). You might get more mileage from Gaim which Orca has been tweaked for (scripting power!). Please feel free to try it all out ahead of time in our usual gathering place at #ubuntu-accessibility on irc.freenode.net. > Is this a meeting where everyone's invited? > YES! All our team meetings are open to everyone. This one might be rather tightly focused on Edgy testing and fixing but we'll do general introductions and we'll have another meeting soon with more open style brainstorming about the future. > Sorry for the newbyish questions. No worries :) Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 4 20:45:56 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:45:56 +0200 Subject: building elinks with javascript support breaks Gnome In-Reply-To: <20061004201022.GA5212@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> References: <20061004143916.GA4361@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> <4523DADC.4080205@ubuntu.com> <20061004201022.GA5212@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Message-ID: <45241D84.3050606@ubuntu.com> Kenny Hitt wrote: > Hi. > > I filed a request to enable javascript support on the elinks package. I > would also like to file a bug on the > libmozjs-dev package in case the elinks maintainer doesn't want to > enable javascript. If libmozjs-dev can be installed, then I can just > build my own elinks from source. > > I'm not familiar with launchpad, so I can't figure out how to file a bug > against libmozjs-dev yet. I'll keep poking around until I figure it > out. In such cases you can also just file against 'ubuntu' and someone who is more familiar with it can re-assign. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs Henrik From bbourgoi at free.fr Wed Oct 4 20:44:59 2006 From: bbourgoi at free.fr (Brice Bourgoin) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:44:59 -0000 Subject: [Bug 42957] Re: Control mouse with keyboard crash X References: <20060504161938.7739.19480.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061004204459.8501.66939.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have upgraded to Edgy today, and this bug disappear. In fact the drag&drop functionality was simply removed, that is why there is no longer the bug. It's not perfect (missing drag&drop with the keyboard) but it is much better than before! -- Control mouse with keyboard crash X https://launchpad.net/bugs/42957 From j-diggs at comcast.net Wed Oct 4 21:29:21 2006 From: j-diggs at comcast.net (Joanmarie Diggs) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:29:21 -0400 Subject: Team meeting In-Reply-To: <45241CE5.3010205@ubuntu.com> References: <4522636C.6020506@ubuntu.com> <20061003140600.GA17847@themuso.com> <45227018.9010806@ubuntu.com> <1159915221.5919.0.camel@lovegood> <4523C93A.9000202@ubuntu.com> <1159981719.4767.6.camel@krister-desktop> <45241CE5.3010205@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1159997361.5252.2.camel@blockhead.hsd1.nh.comcast.net.> Gaim includes IRC, and Orca does an excellent job of providing access to Gaim! --joanie On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 22:43 +0200, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Krister Ekstrom wrote: > > Will this chat client work with Orca? > > > > It should work, but IRC clients are traditionally a bit tricky From kb8aey at verizon.net Wed Oct 4 21:39:26 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:39:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: a way to change del settings Message-ID: <0J6M00418S5PK8V7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi is there a way to get orca to ask before deleting a file. I noticed when I press del this is done right away. Mike. From themuso at themuso.com Wed Oct 4 22:42:41 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:42:41 +1000 Subject: a way to change del settings In-Reply-To: <0J6M00418S5PK8V7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6M00418S5PK8V7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20061004224241.GA26078@themuso.com> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 07:39:26AM EST, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi is there a way to get orca to ask before deleting a file. > I noticed when I press del this is done right away. The file has actually been moved to the trash. If you navigate the bottom panel, you will find the trash icon as the very right most item on the bottom panel. Hope this helps. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com Jabber: themuso at jabber.org.au -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kb8aey at verizon.net Wed Oct 4 23:14:02 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:14:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: info for new users. Message-ID: <0J6M0052CWJEQUL5@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, what I just discovered may be of use to new users. After entering the view menu of the file browser to change a setting, I explored the other menus. In the file menu there is a option to empty the trash. Just another way you can get to it. Mike. From kb8aey at verizon.net Thu Oct 5 04:01:29 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 23:01:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: need a little info Message-ID: <0J6N007OD9UGJ3QA@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, I notice that when ever I get a apt-update and do dist-upgrade, there is usually something to get. I had someone run the software update before I did this two times and it said the system is up to date. Does any one know why the terminal program gets updates and the update manager says I am up to date. The update manager is working, because it does find updates if I go a day with out doing the other. Mike. From krister at kristersplace.ws Thu Oct 5 08:03:48 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 10:03:48 +0200 Subject: building elinks with javascript support breaks Gnome In-Reply-To: <20061004201022.GA5212@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> References: <20061004143916.GA4361@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> <4523DADC.4080205@ubuntu.com> <20061004201022.GA5212@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Message-ID: <1160035428.4768.4.camel@krister-desktop> Hi Kenny, Actually, i don't think it's libmozjs-dev that causes the problem itself, but rather what it depends on, namely libnspr4. (or was it libnsprd, my braille knowledge seems to be somewhat lacking) I think it's that one that breaks Gnome. because it was when i tried installing that library that it wanted to remove my Gnome. Just a speculation. /Krister On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 15:10 -0500, Kenny Hitt wrote: > Hi. > > I filed a request to enable javascript support on the elinks package. I > would also like to file a bug on the > libmozjs-dev package in case the elinks maintainer doesn't want to > enable javascript. If libmozjs-dev can be installed, then I can just > build my own elinks from source. > > I'm not familiar with launchpad, so I can't figure out how to file a bug > against libmozjs-dev yet. I'll keep poking around until I figure it > out. > > Kenny > > On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 06:01:32PM +0200, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > > Hi Kenny, > > > > Could you file a bug explaining the situation here: > > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/elinks/+bugs ? > > > > Not sure we can do this for Edgy and there may be good reasons why it > > was disabled. We might be able to make a separate download available though. > > > > Henrik > > > > Kenny Hitt wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > > > Since Firefox accessibility still has a ways to go, I do most of my web > > > browsing with elinks. Unfortunately, the Ubuntu elinks package has > > > javascript support disabled. When I try to install the libmozjs-dev > > > package needed to get javascript support in elinks, aptitude wants to > > > remove large parts of gnome to satisfy dependencies. > > > > > > Would it be possible to enable javascript support in the Ubuntu elinks > > > package? If not, does anyone know a way to install the libmozjs-dev > > > package so I can build elinks from source without breaking Gnome? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Thu Oct 5 09:35:49 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 09:35:49 -0000 Subject: [Bug 42957] Re: Control mouse with keyboard crash X References: <20060504161938.7739.19480.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061005093549.8352.33720.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Thanks for following up. Closing the bug. ** Changed in: Ubuntu Status: Needs Info => Fix Released -- Control mouse with keyboard crash X https://launchpad.net/bugs/42957 From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Thu Oct 5 13:35:29 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 16:35:29 +0300 Subject: Orca Issues: Python Runtime Errors, Gnome Panel Crashing Message-ID: <000201c6e883$22ea5460$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi, I'm running Dapper with latest updates applied under VmWare server in Windows. The speech synth is eSpeak via speech-dispatcher and I've commented out the Festival module. Yesterday, I spent some time with Orca with less than stellar results. Here's what I'm experiencing. If I run orca --setup or orca in a normal terminal that's not running in Gnome, Python throws an exception about not finding the display. My COnsole is a serial console from Linux's point of view and actually connected to Teraterm in Windows. Here's the output: Ubuntu 6.06.1 LTS Sandbox ttyS0 Sandbox login: vtatila Password: Last login: Wed Oct 4 09:55:52 2006 on :0 Linux Sandbox 2.6.15-27-386 #1 PREEMPT Sat Sep 16 01:51:59 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux The programs included with the Ubuntu system are free software; the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright. Ubuntu comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by applicable law. vtatila at Sandbox:~$ orca --setup Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/orca", line 25, in ? import orca.orca File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/orca/orca.py", line 20, in ? import gtk File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 45, in ? from _gtk import * RuntimeError: could not open display vtatila at Sandbox:~$ Additionally, I've attempted running orca in Gnome either under its terminal or in the run box directly. In the terminal it starts but complains about an attribute error: vtatila at Sandbox:~$ orca --setup GTK Accessibility Module initialized Could not initialize connection to braille. Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/orca/focus_tracking_presenter.py", line 178, in _createScript script = module.Script(app) AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Script' Here the app waits for input from stdin. You can get out with ins+f12, though. While Orca is running in the Gnome terminal, basic prompts and hotkeys do work more or less both in training and focus tracking mode in the GUI. The one key which does not, though, is ins+space for opening the control panel. That combo speaks nothing in training mode and results in no on-screen activity when you are not in training mode. Lastly, trrying to run Orca directly in the run box gives me an error message box: "gnome-panel has quit ... " Gnome panel appears to Crash and probably takes Orca's GUi with it. At least Orca's panel doesn't appear, similarly to the above case. Sometimes if you hit restart in the gnome panel prompt it comes up with another message: Error i've detected a panel already running and will now exit. And after ok-ing it it one pops up again and again in a seemingly endless loop. So any ideas as to what is causing the gnome panel to crash and is there anything I can do to work-around that? where are the Orca log files kept and should I post them on the list as well? I wonder if there's a proper ORca manual in addition to the Wiki which lists, among other things, the basic keyboard commands. The gnome panel crash I reported does actually occur with Gnopernicus, too, But only sporadically upon executing Nautilus via the run box. I'm baffled as to what might cause this in Gnome, and the unpredictability makes it hard to troubleshoot. Well thanks for any tips or advice you can give about these issues. It is true that Orca is usable without the panel but I'd very much like to get my hands at its settings. Are they managable in the config files directly, by any chance?. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From benjamin.hawkeslewis at gmail.com Thu Oct 5 14:43:24 2006 From: benjamin.hawkeslewis at gmail.com (Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:43:24 -0000 Subject: [Bug 64188] Enabling Orca breaks Gnome on Edgy LiveCD References: <20061005144324.8501.18594.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061005144324.8501.18594.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: Binary package hint: gnome-orca I burnt the latest ISO of the Edgy Live CD on 6 October 2006, verified its integrity, and launched Gnome. Things seemed to be working fine, so I started Orca from the Applications menu. In the setup script, I said "yes" to the first option, "no" to the rest. It said to log out and log in again, which I did. But the Gnome splash screen rectangle (where icons appear as parts of Gnome loaded) remained overlaid on the Desktop. If I selected an application such as Text Editor or Terminal from the menu, a "Launching..." message would appear in the bottom panel, then eventually disappear. No application appeared. ** Affects: gnome-orca (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: Unconfirmed -- Enabling Orca breaks Gnome on Edgy LiveCD https://launchpad.net/bugs/64188 From kb8aey at verizon.net Thu Oct 5 16:25:27 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 11:25:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: where is disk managet in edgy Message-ID: <0J6O007628AFK3VA@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, in dapper there is a disk manager to enable windows partitions. I don't see this in edgy. Does anyone know the correct name of the package to install to get this. I did get the gnome partition manager which is also in dapper but it isn't the tool I am looking for. Mike. From krister at kristersplace.ws Thu Oct 5 16:50:30 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 18:50:30 +0200 Subject: where is disk managet in edgy In-Reply-To: <0J6O007628AFK3VA@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6O007628AFK3VA@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <452537D6.7040507@kristersplace.ws> mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, in dapper there is a disk manager to enable windows partitions. > I don't see this in edgy. Does anyone know the correct name of the package to install to get this. That's a package that i to am interested in getting, so please provide the name to the list. -- /Krister From kb8aey at verizon.net Fri Oct 6 00:55:24 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:55:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: has anyone used orca on dapper. Message-ID: <0J6O002CIVWBIX04@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, I installed dapper on a older drive. So far orca doesn't seem to work. I updated gnome, got orca and gnome orca. I also got the 34 updates. When I had someone look at the screen, they said orca had a message about braille. I was never asked to enable anything when it started. However when gnopernicus started I was asked to enable gnome accessibility. Maybe there is a big difference in the older gnome. Anyway this is just something I wanted to try so I could play with the dapper release. Gnopernicus doesn't work now either. Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-3, 10/05/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From kb8aey at verizon.net Fri Oct 6 01:55:18 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 20:55:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Is there any accessibility in sirver adishon Message-ID: <0J6O00I47YO6DPD2@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, does anyone know if there is any accessibility at all in the server addition of ubuntu. I may be getting some old servers and that would be a good operating system to use. Thanks Mike. From pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr Fri Oct 6 08:57:51 2006 From: pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr (gps48) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 08:57:51 -0000 Subject: [Bug 64303] another bug or always the same References: <20061006085751.8501.11912.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006085751.8501.11912.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: i have everytime i start gnome-orca this bug. /var/crash/_usr_bin_festival-synthesis-driver.1000.crash ** Affects: gnome-speech (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: Unconfirmed -- another bug or always the same https://launchpad.net/bugs/64303 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 6 09:13:31 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 09:13:31 -0000 Subject: [Bug 64303] Re: another bug or always the same References: <20061006085751.8501.11912.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006091331.8352.1829.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 59120 *** Thanks for the bug report. This particular bug has already been reported into our bug tracking system, but please feel free to report any further bugs which you find. ** Changed in: gnome-speech (Ubuntu) Sourcepackagename: gnome-speech => festival Importance: Undecided => Medium Status: Unconfirmed => Rejected ** Changed in: festival (Ubuntu) Sourcepackagename: festival => gnome-speech ** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 59120 Sudden crash (please attach backtraces) -- another bug or always the same https://launchpad.net/bugs/64303 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 6 09:13:59 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 09:13:59 -0000 Subject: [Bug 59120] Re: Sudden crash (please attach backtraces) References: <20060906030318.29144.79117.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006091359.8501.8879.launchpad@gandwana.ubuntu.com> ** Changed in: festival (Ubuntu) Sourcepackagename: festival => gnome-speech ** Bug 64303 has been marked a duplicate of this bug -- Sudden crash (please attach backtraces) https://launchpad.net/bugs/59120 From pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr Fri Oct 6 12:51:58 2006 From: pereira.guy at wanadoo.fr (gps48) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 12:51:58 -0000 Subject: [Bug 64341] bug in speech References: <20061006125158.5185.11434.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006125158.5185.11434.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: anyway a start my computer i have a bug whenb starting gnome-orca speech with this : /var/crash/_usr_lib_at-spi_at-spi- registryd.1000.crash ** Affects: at-spi (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: Unconfirmed -- bug in speech https://launchpad.net/bugs/64341 From themuso at themuso.com Fri Oct 6 13:02:34 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:02:34 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63897] Re: source package will not build on edgy References: <20061004035748.8501.63681.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006130234.8352.59401.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Attached debdiff for review/upload by a MOTU sponsor. Thanks. ** Attachment added: "Debdiff to be reviewed/uploaded." http://librarian.launchpad.net/4686757/speech-tools_1.2.3-9.3_1.2.3-9.3ubuntu1.diff -- source package will not build on edgy https://launchpad.net/bugs/63897 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 6 13:06:19 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:06:19 -0000 Subject: [Bug 64341] Re: bug in speech References: <20061006125158.5185.11434.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006130619.8501.44007.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 62446 *** Thanks for the bug report. This particular bug has already been reported into our bug tracking system, but please feel free to report any further bugs which you find. ** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 62446 at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) ** Changed in: at-spi (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided => Medium Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Desktop Bugs Status: Unconfirmed => Rejected -- bug in speech https://launchpad.net/bugs/64341 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 6 13:05:49 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:05:49 -0000 Subject: [Bug 62446] Re: at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) References: <20060926130440.5066.40072.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006130550.8352.31866.launchpad@gandwana.ubuntu.com> ** Bug 64341 has been marked a duplicate of this bug -- at-spi-registryd crash (please attach backtraces, check crash reports before) https://launchpad.net/bugs/62446 From imbrandon at kubuntu.org Fri Oct 6 13:12:08 2006 From: imbrandon at kubuntu.org (Brandon Holtsclaw) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:12:08 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63897] Re: source package will not build on edgy References: <20061004035748.8501.63681.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006131208.5260.42702.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> thanks Luke, uploaded ** Changed in: speech-tools (Ubuntu) Status: Unconfirmed => Fix Released -- source package will not build on edgy https://launchpad.net/bugs/63897 From themuso at themuso.com Fri Oct 6 13:24:22 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:24:22 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63901] Re: Won't build on edgy References: <20061004042020.8501.67158.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006132423.5260.5183.launchpad@gangotri.ubuntu.com> ** Changed in: festival (Ubuntu) Status: Unconfirmed => Fix Committed -- Won't build on edgy https://launchpad.net/bugs/63901 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 6 13:31:43 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:31:43 -0000 Subject: [Bug 63901] Re: Won't build on edgy References: <20061004042020.8501.67158.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061006133143.8352.27523.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Uploaded - thanks a lot. ** Changed in: festival (Ubuntu) Assignee: (unassigned) => Daniel Holbach Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released -- Won't build on edgy https://launchpad.net/bugs/63901 From parente at gmail.com Fri Oct 6 14:24:51 2006 From: parente at gmail.com (Peter Parente) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:24:51 -0400 Subject: ANNOUNCE: Linux Screen Reader 0.3.0 Message-ID: <5308fd2c0610060724h474fd2fdw7b6f38d51c14f046@mail.gmail.com> ============== * What is it ? ============== The Linux Screen Reader (LSR) project is an open source effort to develop an extensible assistive technology for the GNOME desktop environment. The goal of the project is to create a reusable development platform for building alternative and supplemental user interfaces in support of people with diverse disabilities. The primary use of the LSR platform is to give people with visual impairments access to the GNOME desktop and its business applications (e.g. Firefox, OpenOffice, Eclipse) using speech, Braille, and screen magnification. The extensions packaged with the LSR core are intended to meet this end. However, LSR's rich support for extensions can be used for a variety of other purposes such as supporting novel input and output devices, improving accessibility for users with other disabilities, enabling multi-modal access to the GNOME desktop, and so forth. ================== * What's changed ? ================== A demonstration of LSR 0.3.0 will be presented at the GNOME Accessibility Summit. A screencast of the demo will be posted on the LSR homepage shortly thereafter. The demo will showcase the latest screen reading features of LSR as well as two prototype interfaces for people with cognitive decline and reading disabilities. For users * The new settings dialog allows for configuration of settings defined by a particular device or script as well as the current user profile. For instance, a user can change their speech synthesizer without restarting LSR. * Settings are now persistent across sessions. More settings will be added in future versions. * New keyboard commands are now available such as reading accessible descriptions, reporting text attributes, routing focus and caret, etc. See the list of defined commands at * The LSR review keys now function on web pages in Firefox 3.0. The FirefoxPerk will grow new commands for rich document navigation in future releases. * The Perk chooser dialog allows users to manually load and unload scripts for the current application. This allows users to dynamically load/unload tool scripts at runtime, kind of like Emacs modes. * DECtalk is now supported through gnome-speech. * SpeechDispatcher is now supported. * A script to better support accessible login has been added. Instructions for configuring Fedora Core to start LSR at login are now available in the LSR FAQ. (http://live.gnome.org/LSR/FrequentlyAskedQuestions) For developers * The developer scripting API has grown a tremendous number of new convenience methods. See the epydoc on the LSR homepage for details. * Three developer monitors now exist in LSR for watching raw accessibility events from at-spi, execution of LSR scripts, and I/O streams to devices. * User configurable settings may now be defined by LSR scripts. The settings dialog automatically generates an accessible user interface for changing their values. * Developers can now add new dialogs and debugging monitors to LSR just as they can add scripts and input/output devices. They're all just extensions to LSR. * The command line interface for managing extensions is now simpler. * Extensions may now be added by the root user and made available system-wide, or added by an unprivileged user and available for his/her use only. * The spec is updated to support the building of relocatable RPMs. Translations * en_GB(David Lodge) * vi(Clytie Siddall) * zh_CN(Funda Wang) * pt_BR(Raphael Higino) * sv(Daniel Nylander) For full details, please see the ChangeLog at http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/lsr/ChangeLog?rev=1.29. For an idea of where LSR is headed next, visit http://live.gnome.org/LSR/Timeline ====================== * Where can I get it ? ====================== Source code release and contributed packages: http://live.gnome.org/LSR#downloads For more information, visit the LSR home page: http://live.gnome.org/LSR From William.Walker at Sun.COM Fri Oct 6 14:41:50 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 10:41:50 -0400 Subject: Announcing Orca v2.17.0 Message-ID: <1160145710.22856.5.camel@localhost> =============== * What is Orca? =============== Orca is a free, open source, flexible, and extensible screen reader that provides access to the graphical desktop via user-customizable combinations of speech, braille, and/or magnification. Orca has been been developed by the Sun Microsystems, Inc., Accessibility Program Office via continued engagement with its end users. In fact, the user interface designer for Orca is also a user. Now that Orca is part of the GNOME Desktop, we've decided to adopt the GNOME versioning scheme to make it easier to correlate Orca releases with GNOME releases. As such the Orca 2.17.x series are designated for the GNOME 2.17.x releases. The Orca v2.17.0 release represents a relatively stable tarball containing enhancements and bug fixes done since the release of Orca v1.0.0 for GNOME 2.16 in September. Note that we fully expect to do an Orca v2.17.1 tarball for the GNOME 2.17.1 release the week of October 16th. ================================== * What's changed for Orca v2.17.0? ================================== * Updates to user requirements and functional specification. * Added Orca man pages. * New and improved regression test harness. * Added new Orca main window to allow one to have a GUI option for quitting Orca and invoking the configuration settings. The appearance of this window can be enabled/disabled in the new "General" tab of the configuration dialog. Also added "Apply" button the configuration GUI window. * Added new Orca "Quit" dialog. * Refactor in default.py and other scripts to add isTextArea method to determine if an object is a text area or not. This allows us to deal with the growing number of things that are text areas, but choose to give themselves different roles (e.g., GTK's 'text', OpenOffice's 'paragraph', and Gecko's 'entry'). * Added Gecko.py toolkit script to cover apps that use the Mozilla Gecko toolkit (e.g., Firefox, Thunderbird, Yelp, etc.). Some work done with new Firefox 3 at-spi implementation, but much work is still needed. * Added repeated character count handling (rfe/bug 354469). * Added military spelling (rfe/bug 354460). * Fix for bug 351957: Orca now allows the setting of the source and target displays for magnification. * Fix for bug 351569: no longer hang when gnome-keyring password box appears. * Fix for bug 344192: no longer hang when the "bug buddy" dialog appears. * Fix for bug 355602: $ was being echoed twice in terminal with word echo enabled. * Fix for bug 357150: use 'append' instead of 'extend' to avoid spelling out the 'No focus' message. * Fix for bug 358508: use obj instead of event.source in visualAppearanceChanged for speech. * Fix for bug 353532: provide a workaround for a java-access-bridge bug (bug 355011) where popup menu events are not sent to Orca. * Fix for bug 353531: 'checked'/'unchecked' are no longer reported twice for check boxes in java applications. * Fix for bug 357556: Insert key no longer sticks after running test keystroke files. The hot-key to start/stop recording of keystrokes within Orca has been reverted to just "Pause". Also adjusted the "don't write pause keystrokes" code to recognize F21 (which is the Pause key on my Sun type 6 keyboard). * Partial work on bug 354970: add command_name dictionary from Jorge Sandin (thanks Jorge!). Also refactored the way keybindings and braille bindings are defined and obtained to make it easier to discover and override their definitions. * Partial work on bug 349954: become more cognizant of multibyte UTF-8 characters. * Fix for bug 357509: Flat review now uses the "uppercase" voice settings for uppercase text when navigating by line. * Fix for bug 357507: SayAll now uses the "uppercase" voice settings for uppercase text. * Fix for bug 356970: repeated character count now works with Evolution * Fix for bug 356911: Orca no longer generates a traceback with Numpad-Minus when positioned at the end of a line. * Fix for bug 356179: the test in Orca to determine if the desktop is running now works better. * Fix for bug 340849: Orca now provides an option to allow the user to automatically logout of the GNOME desktop if the gconf accessibility flag wasn't previously enabled before running the setup utility. * Fix for bug 355927: duplicate window titles are now spoken when navigating between them using Alt+Tab. * Fix for bug 350216: "LAYERED_PANE" is no longer in speech context. * Fix for bug 351797: make sure configuration GUI pops to top. * Fix for bug 347128: allow pan buttons to be used on braille display while in learn mode. * Fix for bug 347650: allow a script to determine if it is the active script or not (compare self to orca_state.activeScript). * For for bug 354983: From Rodrigo Moya (THANKS!) to fill in dead code paths in brlmodule.c. * Fix for bug 354487: apostrophe no longer delimits a word boundary. * Fix for bug 354985: gedit script no longer generates a traceback due to a missing import line. * Fix for bug 342602: StarOffice Writer table cell speaking order fixed. * Fix for bug 351826: change orca shell script from sh to bash to allow it to better respond to "kill -HUP" signals. * Fix for bug 352866: add "-q" and "--quit" usage information * Fix for bug 353600: don't require the user to be root when doing a "make distcheck". * New and updated translations (THANKS!): dz Dzongkha Pema Geyleg el Greek Simos Xenitellis es Spanish Francisco Javier F. Serrador et Estonian Priit Laes gl Galician Ignacio Casal Quinteiro th Thai Supranee Thirawatthanasuk and tr Turkish Deniz Kocak and Baris Cicek ===================== * Where can I get it? ===================== You can obtain Orca v2.17.0 in source code form at the following URL: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/orca/2.17/orca-2.17.0.tar.bz2 http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/orca/2.17/orca-2.17.0.tar.gz >From the Sun Microsystems, Inc., Accessibility Program Office, Willie Walker, Project Lead Mike Pedersen, User Interface Design Rich Burridge, Core Development and Scripting Lynn Monsanto, Core Development and Java Platform Support Michele Budris, Program Management From kb8aey at verizon.net Fri Oct 6 17:18:50 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 12:18:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: orca and lsr updated. Message-ID: <0J6Q00LOW5FEQ1N8@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, I see that both orca and lsr have new versions out. Will there be packages we can get using apt-get, or will these be considered software updates and included automatically. Mike. From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 6 17:23:32 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 19:23:32 +0200 Subject: orca and lsr updated. In-Reply-To: <0J6Q00LOW5FEQ1N8@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6Q00LOW5FEQ1N8@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <1160155412.15278.1.camel@localhost> Hello Mike, Am Freitag, den 06.10.2006, 12:18 -0500 schrieb mike coulombe: > Hi, I see that both orca and lsr have new versions out. > Will there be packages we can get using apt-get, orca got an unstable update (2.17.0), which is edgy+1 material. lsr would need a Upstream version freeze exception - I'm sure Luke will have a look at it. Have a nice day, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From William.Walker at Sun.COM Fri Oct 6 17:42:18 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:42:18 -0400 Subject: orca and lsr updated. In-Reply-To: <1160155412.15278.1.camel@localhost> References: <0J6Q00LOW5FEQ1N8@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> <1160155412.15278.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1160156538.22856.25.camel@localhost> Hi Dan et al: The Orca v2.17.0 release is fairly stable and represents stuff we wanted to get get into GNOME 2.16, but ran out of time. :-) We considered making an Orca v2.16.1 tarball for the GNOME 2.16.1 release, but we decided that the changes we wanted to make included GUI and string changes, which were fairly locked down as a part of the GNOME process. All said and done, Orca v2.17.0 should work fine on GNOME 2.16. We also do a portion of our development and testing on Edgy, so we're relatively confident of the stability of Orca v2.17.0 there. Will On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 19:23 +0200, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello Mike, > > Am Freitag, den 06.10.2006, 12:18 -0500 schrieb mike coulombe: > > Hi, I see that both orca and lsr have new versions out. > > Will there be packages we can get using apt-get, > > orca got an unstable update (2.17.0), which is edgy+1 material. lsr > would need a Upstream version freeze exception - I'm sure Luke will have > a look at it. > > Have a nice day, > Daniel > From krister at kristersplace.ws Fri Oct 6 18:01:23 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 20:01:23 +0200 Subject: orca and lsr updated. In-Reply-To: <0J6Q00LOW5FEQ1N8@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6Q00LOW5FEQ1N8@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <1160157683.10789.1.camel@krister-desktop> Hi, At least Orca will, that i'm sure very soon be available as a package. Dunno if LSR is available right now, but if it is, it'll also be upgraded. /Krister On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 12:18 -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, I see that both orca and lsr have new versions out. > Will there be packages we can get using apt-get, > or will these be considered software updates and included automatically. > Mike. > From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Fri Oct 6 22:38:16 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 00:38:16 +0200 Subject: BrlTTY / orca In-Reply-To: <006b01c6e7bb$57716e30$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <000201c6e77d$267248b0$202a140a@centrino> <20061004101434.GF2703@implementation> <006b01c6e7bb$57716e30$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <20061006223816.GA6900@implementation.residence.ens-lyon.fr> Hi, Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Wed 04 Oct 2006 16:45:18 +0300, a écrit : > I'm natively running Windows XP and Dolphin Supernova 7, which is a combined > screen reader and magnifier. WIthin WIndows I have a pair of virtual serial > ports com 1 and com 2 that are connected like a null-modem cable. > Additionally, I'm running VmWare Server 1.01 which runs Ubuntu Dapper as a > guest OS. There's a serial port in that Linux virtual machine which is > connected to the host machine's com2 port. The last component of the puzzle > is the terminal emulator TeraTerm which monitors the com 1 port, that being > the other end of the virtual null modem cable. Ah, ok. I can understand this much better now :) > VmWare server also supports USB devices and if my WIndows reader is not > using it, the LINux virtual machine can see my Braille display (Tieman > Voyager). What I'd like to do would be to get brlTTY working Doesn't this already work? I mean, if you cut down your windows reader, BrlTTY should be able to grab the device, and give you a reading of the console, and once orca/gnopernicus run, get their reading of the gnome session. > I've already got Gnopernicus speaking but it says it cannot find the > braillle display. As gnopernicus probably said, the checklist is - /etc/brlapi.key exists and is not empty. - you have read right on /etc/brlapi.key - brltty is running with API enabled. Another possibility would be to run brltty natively inside windows, and have gnopernicus connect to it through network. A bit tricky, but not that much (you just need to set the BRLAPI_HOSTNAME environment variable to host:0 where you replace "host" by the name of your windows machine, or its IP). Samuel From kb8aey at verizon.net Sat Oct 7 04:36:31 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 23:36:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: getting orca to speak idems in a menu. Message-ID: <0J6R002ID0SVIUN9@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, I notice when I am in the desktop or in the file system orca says how many items are in a directory. However when I press alt f1 and read the menus only the name is spoken. Is there a way to get orca to also tell how many items are in these menus like gnopernicus did. Mike. From gcasse at oralux.org Sat Oct 7 11:15:58 2006 From: gcasse at oralux.org (Gilles Casse) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 13:15:58 +0200 Subject: Oralux repository Message-ID: <17703.35950.355261.677358@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Hello, The Oralux repository is under construction: it currently includes around 30 new packages. This repository includes the MBROLA packages which are proprietary and can not be included in a commercial project without permissions (the license is much more detailled of course). Before including these packages in Oralux, we contacted Dr Thierry Dutoit and the other copyright holders for the MBROLA databases. If possible, the best would be that some of our packages migrate to the repository of major distributions. It might ease for example the multispeech installation and its six related languages. These packages are compliant with a Debian testing (Knoppix 5.0.1 in fact). Igor B. Poretsky kindly proposed his Debian packages (particularly for mbrola). Another source could have been the Brlspeak project since Sebastien François built some of these packages. Lukas Loehrer kindly proposes his eflite/flite packages compliant with ALSA. He also helped to improve some of my multipeech packages. The current Oralux repository is available with these lines in the sources.list file: deb http://oralux.net/packages unstable main non-free contrib deb-src http://oralux.net/packages unstable main non-free contrib Best regards, Gilles -- Oralux http://oralux.org From kb8aey at verizon.net Sat Oct 7 20:39:20 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 15:39:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: password to connect to network Message-ID: <0J6S00FRG9DJPDQ0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, has anyone connected to there ubuntu system from windows. I see the system, and it asks for a user name and password. I assume this should be the same one I use to log in to the edgy system, but that doesn't work. Is there some place I am suppose to set up a user name and password to connect to the edgy computer. Mike. From kb8aey at verizon.net Sun Oct 8 00:12:32 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 19:12:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: want info on programs. Message-ID: <0J6S00L6BJ8VQ0SE@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, does anyone know of a talking or chime clock that works with edgy and orca. Also in the dos days, there were several text games. Are there any of the text game engines anyone knows about that work with orca in linux. I know several of them were ported to linux. Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-5, 10/07/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From kb8aey at verizon.net Sun Oct 8 21:40:11 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:40:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: network passwords Message-ID: <0J6U00CC66UYARQ3@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, I am still having no luck logging on to the ubuntu computer from windows. It wants a user name and password. The one I use to log on to the edgy machine doesn't work. Is there somewhere to set this up. I know in older win98 computers, you did this by putting a password on folders. However I don't see that option here. Mike. From kb8aey at verizon.net Mon Oct 9 00:24:43 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 19:24:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: hsing the help system with orca. Message-ID: <0J6U00H1SEH6FOSA@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> Hi does the help system work with orca. I press f1 and get some speech. But I don't get to any topics. Other times in a ap I do get a listing with numbers, but nothing I try seems to open and read them. If anyone has done this, I would appreciate the commands to make it work. Thanks Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-6, 10/08/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From kb8aey at verizon.net Mon Oct 9 01:15:21 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 20:15:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: seeing the help system with orca. Message-ID: <0J6U00FZ5GTK32OE@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Sorry about that I hit the wrong key in the subject line before. Does the help system work with orca. I press f1 and get some speech. But I don't get to any topics. Other times in a ap I do get a listing with numbers, but nothing I try seems to open and read them. If anyone has done this, I would appreciate the commands to make it work. Thanks Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-6, 10/08/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Mon Oct 9 05:13:29 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:13:29 +0300 Subject: Orca Tracking Issues, Other Qs About It Message-ID: <001601c6eb61$ab5e8010$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi, Some Orca issues. I'm using the latest binary available via apt-get in Dapper. I've found that in some very basic apps tracking fails rather miserably. I wonder if these are known issues and or specific to my machine or if there's anything I can do. I've switched my theme to inverse high contrast 800x600, which is the clearest of the bunch for me, though far from what I'd like. So here are the tracking issues: in Gconf, when you navigate a list of values for a key, such as the list of visible columns for NAutilus, Orca fails to track the selection at all. The same thing, in my experience, with the Gnome panel if you move around the icon view containing all the panels you can add. Orca seems to speak nothing and the flat review keys, which should be changeable for laptops, by the way, just skip over the list of icons completely. That's odd. The third app where I'm having similar issues is a file manager that was recommended to me namely Rox Filer. Tracking does work in the menus and dialogs but nothing is tracked when you select an icon in the main window. That prevents me ffrom using the app in the first place. I don't like Nautilus as it is barely as configurable as WIndows Explorer, which is not much, period. If even garden variety Gnome apps have this bad issues, I wonder how usable the average gnome app would be. At the moment I'm rather sceptical about it. How do GTK1 apps like XMMS look to Orca? I'm a huge Winamp fan, as far as exotic formats go, so would really need access to this app as it is the closest Winamp equivalent you can get. Something which can use XMMS plugs would also do. Lastly, I have noticed that my issue about gnome-panel crashing when trying to run orca in the run box is not specific to that app. When Gnopernicus starts the first time on logging in it works fine. IF I close it down and try rerrunning it in the run box, it crashes the gnoem panel similarly to how running Orca does. Too bad. Which makes me wonder two things. How do you change which app GNome uses as the screen reader? I'd like to have Orca start up when the screen reader box is checked. And also, step by step instructions on how to update or downgrade the gnome panel component, to resolve these issues, would be appreciated. HOpe this can be of help. If you need more version info and such, just ask and I'll dig it up if I know how. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Mon Oct 9 05:47:28 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:47:28 +0300 Subject: Easy Gnome Themming - High-Contrast Is No Good for Me Message-ID: <001a01c6eb66$6ab07aa0$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi, I'd like to be able to customize the colors in a scheme such as high contrast or clear looks to suit my vision. Are there any tutorials, proper specs on where each color is used and info on the language in which the textual theme files are written? I still think this is much harder than it should be. I've Googled and amazingly though people seem to want it badly, check out: http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1740 for example, there's no proper theme editor for even picking the colors for Gnome themes. Even Windows does better in this regard not to mention KDE-. As I am not a fan of custom text files and the command-line, editing the colors in the GUI would be much faster and it would enable one to easily preview any setting changes. If you edit files manually, are there any ways to refresh the theme in real time easily? Another problem I have is that the scheme is not well defined. Some people say you have to dig up the APi documentation to determine what each color does, ouch. That's an unreasonable requirement for end-users, at least would be in the Windows world. That would be bearable but according to some tutorials I've tried reading, e.g: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes One has to define each color for five different states for each control. That seems quite difficult if one only knows how color gets used in Win32, It would be so much easier if some application could optionally derive some of the colors programmatically once you do define the main colors. This is how the theme editor works in some other OSes e.g. the shadow and light colors in WIn32. As to what's wrong with the schemes, here's some info: I'm legally blind but do have a bit of sight left. I mostly use magnification to track the mouse if I need to use it. Even without magnification, though, I can get some of the big picture by looking at the screen. The info includes the approximate position and size of windows and large controls like lists, buttons and groups of radio buttons. That, in turn, gives me a big usability boost, even though I cannot read on-screen text unmagnified. The trouble with all of the Gnome themes is that they don't provide proper contrast between GUI element backgrounds. The contrast between text and dialogs is great but the one between UI element backgrounds is not. In my sight situation, that's a mistake I've seen repeated in numerous high-contrast schemes for various platforms. As an example, let's consider text fields. It is hard for me to tell where a text field is, because its background color is almost the same as that of the window or dialog background. I'd choose turquoise for dialogs and light yellow for the fields. That keeps both field and dialog text readable for me while also making fields stand out from the dialog because of the difference in their background color. Contrast is what primarily matters to me, as a whole, and I also find pure white slightly dazzzling in large quantities. Personally, using a white on a dark blue or black scheme would truely make scroll bars, title bars and push buttons stand out, too. I'm pretty certain my sight situation is rather unique. But on the other hand, I also believe that there are other sight impaired people who would benefit from a significant contrast between GUI element backgrounds. More sight info here: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/sight.html For reference, here's a screenshot showing my current Windows look in a text editor: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/wintheme.PNG I'd like to change the buttons and scroll bars to white on dark blue but that stupid legacy color scheme won't let me. I was kinda hoping LInux didn't have limitations like a shared text color for buttons and dialogs. I know KDE does not, at least. Well any help appreciated as usual. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Mon Oct 9 06:09:08 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:09:08 +0300 Subject: Making the Command-Line Friendlier (DOS-Background) Message-ID: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi list, Are there any tweaks or config files that would make a DOS old-timer feel at home in the Linux command-line? Which shell would you recommend? I've determined that much that I'd like to, the Gnome accessibility isn't quite as rosy as I thought, so I'd better stay in the command-line for a while. However I seem to dislike the defaults a whole lot. LS output is very speech unfriendly, silence on success feels disconcerting, having to specify that you want a confirmation appears to negate its whole point and even the switches are all wrong by default. Ideally I want a friendly, interactive command-line experience and don't mind typing in longer names if they are more mnemonic and or discoverable. Speaking the users language wouldn't be bad either. e.g: cp: cannot stat `foo': No such file or directory Hmm and what do we gain by knowing that a stat system call is used? All the user cares about is that the source file could not be found. So are there bash configs and or other scripts for making the environment more DOS-like in a good way. That is more hand holding, confirmation prompts, verbose command output and a general attitude of not assuming you are a programmer and know what you are doing. I have to dabble as root a little, and that's scary when I don't know exactly how the shell will deal with wild cards or quoting, for example. Needless to say the behavior is quite different from DOS and Win XP to whose odd behaviors and quirks I've gotten used to over the years. I guess this tweak would be just a list of shell aliases basically with -r recursive and -i interactive switches turned on for quite a number of commands. Aliases to DOS names and assuming the current directory is in the path would ease my transformation as well. Any analogies or references you can draw to good old MS-DOS and or Perl programming might help me get some of the concepts quicker. I really like Perl, for quick and dirty jobs, but seem to have an immense dislike for most non-interactive Unix command-line apps and shells. Maybe this is just culture shock and initial change resistance. in particular, SunOS 5 and TCSH as used in our Uni machine is just plain terrible. e.g: grep: illegal option -- help Usage: grep -hblcnsviw pattern file . . . Really helpful. Compare to findstr /? which gives you much more info including what the command actually does. PS: Having learned Perl in WIndows before trying to use Linux, I often feel like hey the shell or editor works like Perl, rather than the other way around, . -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From dana at ubuntustudio.com Mon Oct 9 07:43:29 2006 From: dana at ubuntustudio.com (Dana Olson) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 07:43:29 -0000 Subject: [Bug 56478] gnome-panel dies when screenreader is enabled and... References: <20060815163548.24756.60066.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061009074329.5185.32726.launchpad@canonical@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: OK, in Dapper, if I enable the "Screenreader" option in the Assistive Technology Preferences, gnome-panel (and epiphany) die unexpectedly at certain times. I can reproduce this by doing the following: - Log on to GNOME desktop. - Close Gnoppernicus (optional, doesn't change anything). - Hit ALT+F2, type in xcalc or vncviewer and hit Enter. - gnome-panel crashes. Disabling the Screenreader and restarting GNOME shows this issue disappears. The desired behavior is that gnome-panel does not crash. The other issue is that sometimes Epiphany just crashes too, but doesn't if Screenreader is disabled. ** Affects: gail (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: Unconfirmed -- gnome-panel dies when screenreader is enabled and... https://launchpad.net/bugs/56478 From ajmitch at ihug.co.nz Mon Oct 9 07:43:29 2006 From: ajmitch at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Mitchell) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 07:43:29 -0000 Subject: [Bug 56478] Re: gnome-panel dies when screenreader is enabled and... References: <20060815163548.24756.60066.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061009074329.5185.57347.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Thanks for your bug report. Could you please try to obtain a backtrace by following the instructions on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash. This will greatly aid us in tracking down your problem. ** Changed in: Ubuntu Sourcepackagename: None => gail -- gnome-panel dies when screenreader is enabled and... https://launchpad.net/bugs/56478 From themuso at themuso.com Mon Oct 9 08:59:41 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 08:59:41 -0000 Subject: [Bug 56478] Re: gnome-panel dies when screenreader is enabled and... References: <20060815163548.24756.60066.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061009085941.8501.82089.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This is a known problem in Dapper's version of gnome, and is fixed in the edgy release. ** Changed in: gail (Ubuntu) Status: Unconfirmed => Rejected -- gnome-panel dies when screenreader is enabled and... https://launchpad.net/bugs/56478 From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Oct 9 08:52:01 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 10:52:01 +0200 Subject: Making the Command-Line Friendlier (DOS-Background) In-Reply-To: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> Hi, Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Mon 09 Oct 2006 09:09:08 +0300, a écrit : > LS output is very speech unfriendly, What do you mean? Because it speaks all file names? > silence on success feels disconcerting, Isn't the prompt spoken ? > having to specify that you want a confirmation appears to negate its > whole point and even the switches are all wrong by default. Yes. That's because when you use commands in a shell script, you don't want to have all confirmations printed by default. If you really want a confirmation, you can use another shell than bash (bash is quite limited), and tinker with your $PS1 variable (the command prompt) and the $? variable (the return code, which is 0 in case of success). > Speaking the users language wouldn't be bad either. e.g: > > cp: cannot stat `foo': No such file or directory > > Hmm and what do we gain by knowing that a stat system call is used? All the > user cares about is that the source file could not be found. Well, here that's a concern not really related to accessibility. The problem is that programmers are programmers. But you can report this problem to the package that provides "cp", coreutils. > So are there bash configs and or other scripts for making the environment > more DOS-like in a good way. For some issues yes, for others no. > That is more hand holding, What do you mean ? > confirmation prompts, This you can do it, by having the shell look at the $? variable when returning to prompt, and say "OK" when it is 0. > verbose command output For this it's generally the -v option: cp -v foo bar for instance. You can put alias cp='cp -v' in your .bashrc for this. The problem is that it's quite talkative. Do you really want to hear all files that are being transfered? (That's why it's not enabled by default). > and a general attitude of not assuming you are a programmer and know > what you are doing. As I said, that's quite another problem. Linux was first programmed for programmers, and the difficulty is now to change this. Just submit bugs to the appropriate packages, and this will be corrected. > I have to dabble as root a little, and that's scary when I don't > know exactly how the shell will deal with wild cards or quoting, for > example. You can echo *.foo* before doing rm *.foo* for checking the wild card expansion. > assuming the current directory is in the path This poses security problem: if the current directory contains an "ls" script, then you won't be able to read the directory. Or worse, the script may actually perform "ls", but also mail < /etc/passwd foo at bar.com, etc... So I would really _not_ recommand having this behavior and really always use ./foo instead of just foo. > [I] seem to have an immense dislike for most non-interactive Unix > command-line apps and shells. Maybe this is just culture shock and > initial change resistance. Unfortunately, that's the Unix way of thinking... So yes I'd say it is just a shock. > in particular, SunOS 5 and TCSH as used in our Uni machine is just > plain terrible. e.g: > > grep: illegal option -- help > Usage: grep -hblcnsviw pattern file . . . > > Really helpful. Compare to findstr /? which gives you much more info > including what the command actually does. Indeed. The thing is: unix was initially written for programmers. Microsoft writes software for general public. No wonder why the achievment is not the same. But you can have GNU's coreutils behave friendlier: just report a wishlist to the appropriate packages, and it will be corrected. Note however: don't say "printing `cannot stat foo' sucks !, which is rude to the programmer who wrote the program. Instead, say "could it print `cannot find file foo' please?". Samuel From cbhworld at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 10:47:42 2006 From: cbhworld at gmail.com (Chris Hayes) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 11:47:42 +0100 Subject: Available text-to-speech software for linux Message-ID: <94b38bfa0610090347s3cb6bd2etf45c14ea05bb8e2e@mail.gmail.com> Hey, I was wondering whether there are any broad and up-to-date lists on the internet of what text-to-speech software is available for linux - or whether anyone can reply with a list of them - or offer any suggestions of what ones have the most voices/options or are best for certain reasons. My father is keen to experiment with linux however one of the things he needs me to find is some really good text-to-speech software for him - and both me and him would like to know what's out there, so any replies to this would be great. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Oct 9 11:15:40 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 13:15:40 +0200 Subject: Available text-to-speech software for linux In-Reply-To: <94b38bfa0610090347s3cb6bd2etf45c14ea05bb8e2e@mail.gmail.com> References: <94b38bfa0610090347s3cb6bd2etf45c14ea05bb8e2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061009111540.GL3443@implementation.labri.fr> Hi, LarsWiki probably has a list http://larswiki.atrc.utoronto.ca/wiki Samuel From cbhworld at users.sourceforge.net Mon Oct 9 11:31:21 2006 From: cbhworld at users.sourceforge.net (Chris Hayes) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:31:21 +0100 Subject: Available text-to-speech software for linux In-Reply-To: <20061009111540.GL3443@implementation.labri.fr> References: <94b38bfa0610090347s3cb6bd2etf45c14ea05bb8e2e@mail.gmail.com> <20061009111540.GL3443@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <94b38bfa0610090431q569c0f61yc3d0971c6ab4028@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Samuel, that's fantastic! On 09/10/06, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > Hi, > > LarsWiki probably has a list > http://larswiki.atrc.utoronto.ca/wiki > > Samuel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsd at clara.co.uk Mon Oct 9 12:07:02 2006 From: jsd at clara.co.uk (Jonathan Duddington) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:07:02 +0100 Subject: Available text-to-speech software for linux In-Reply-To: <94b38bfa0610090347s3cb6bd2etf45c14ea05bb8e2e@mail.gmail.com> References: <94b38bfa0610090347s3cb6bd2etf45c14ea05bb8e2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4e73189ddcjsd@clara.co.uk> In article <94b38bfa0610090347s3cb6bd2etf45c14ea05bb8e2e at mail.gmail.com>, Chris Hayes wrote: > Hey, I was wondering whether there are any broad and up-to-date lists > on the internet of what text-to-speech software is available for > linux - or whether anyone can reply with a list of them - or offer > any suggestions of what ones have the most voices/options or are best > for certain reasons. The LarsWiki list is incomplete. There's also eSpeak: http://espeak.sourceforge.net/ You didn't say what language you wanted, but your email's timezone suggests British English, which eSpeak does. "Best for certain reasons"? If you want natural sounding speech then try Festival's large MultiSyn voices: http://www.festvox.org/festival/downloads.html http://www.festvox.org/packed/festival/1.95/VOICES.README For general screen reader use where responsiveness and intelligibility are more important, some people prefer eSpeak. I also prefer it for reading text files and emails, but then I'm probably biased :-) From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Oct 9 12:12:58 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:12:58 +0200 Subject: Available text-to-speech software for linux In-Reply-To: <4e73189ddcjsd@clara.co.uk> References: <94b38bfa0610090347s3cb6bd2etf45c14ea05bb8e2e@mail.gmail.com> <4e73189ddcjsd@clara.co.uk> Message-ID: <20061009121258.GP3443@implementation.labri.fr> Jonathan Duddington, le Mon 09 Oct 2006 13:07:02 +0100, a écrit : > The LarsWiki list is incomplete. There's also eSpeak: > http://espeak.sourceforge.net/ Then please notify LarsWiki people. Samuel From jsd at clara.co.uk Mon Oct 9 12:21:53 2006 From: jsd at clara.co.uk (Jonathan Duddington) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:21:53 +0100 Subject: Available text-to-speech software for linux In-Reply-To: <20061009121258.GP3443@implementation.labri.fr> References: <94b38bfa0610090347s3cb6bd2etf45c14ea05bb8e2e@mail.gmail.com> <4e73189ddcjsd@clara.co.uk> <20061009121258.GP3443@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <4e7319fa1ajsd@clara.co.uk> In article <20061009121258.GP3443 at implementation.labri.fr>, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Jonathan Duddington, le Mon 09 Oct 2006 13:07:02 +0100, a écrit : > > The LarsWiki list is incomplete. There's also eSpeak: > > http://espeak.sourceforge.net/ > Then please notify LarsWiki people. Yes, I'll do that. I hadn't heard of that list before, so thanks for the info. From krister at kristersplace.ws Mon Oct 9 13:23:52 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:23:52 +0200 Subject: Almost ashamed to ask but ... Message-ID: <1160400232.5780.33.camel@krister-desktop> Hey folks, Krister here with another little query for you. I'm trying to play an .mp3 file by selecting it on the Gnome desktop and then hitting the enter key. But instead of nice music, a dialog comes up saying that Totem can't play this type of file since i don't have a decoder for .mp3 installed and my question is what package i should install? I've searched for mp3 decoders, but with no luck at all, probably because i don't know the propper name of the package, so could anyone please shed some light on this? TIA -- /Krister From themuso at themuso.com Mon Oct 9 13:41:42 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:41:42 +1000 Subject: Almost ashamed to ask but ... In-Reply-To: <1160400232.5780.33.camel@krister-desktop> References: <1160400232.5780.33.camel@krister-desktop> Message-ID: <20061009134142.GA26372@themuso.com> On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 11:23:52PM EST, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > Hey folks, > Krister here with another little query for you. > I'm trying to play an .mp3 file by selecting it on the Gnome desktop and > then hitting the enter key. But instead of nice music, a dialog comes up > saying that Totem can't play this type of file since i don't have a > decoder for .mp3 installed and my question is what package i should > install? I've searched for mp3 decoders, but with no luck at all, > probably because i don't know the propper name of the package, so could > anyone please shed some light on this? You need to enable the universe repository, and install the gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad package. Then you will be able to play MP3s. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com Jabber: themuso at jabber.org.au -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kenny at hittsjunk.net Mon Oct 9 13:56:56 2006 From: kenny at hittsjunk.net (Kenny Hitt) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:56:56 -0500 Subject: Almost ashamed to ask but ... In-Reply-To: <1160400232.5780.33.camel@krister-desktop> References: <1160400232.5780.33.camel@krister-desktop> Message-ID: <20061009135656.GA11509@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Hi. Try installing gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 Kenny On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 03:23:52PM +0200, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > Hey folks, > Krister here with another little query for you. > I'm trying to play an .mp3 file by selecting it on the Gnome desktop and > then hitting the enter key. But instead of nice music, a dialog comes up > saying that Totem can't play this type of file since i don't have a > decoder for .mp3 installed and my question is what package i should > install? I've searched for mp3 decoders, but with no luck at all, > probably because i don't know the propper name of the package, so could > anyone please shed some light on this? > TIA > -- > /Krister > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From kb8aey at verizon.net Mon Oct 9 15:22:33 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 10:22:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: reading manuals with orca Message-ID: <0J6V00C0PK1KAFP6@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, has anyone been able to read manuals with orca. In gedit for example. I can read the titles for a subject, but pressing enter or any other key doesn't seem to get me to the text. Does this feature work in orca at this time. Thanks Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-6, 10/08/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Mon Oct 9 15:57:56 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 18:57:56 +0300 Subject: A Bit OT: Making the Command-Line Friendlier (DOS-Background, Long) References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> Samuel Thibault wrote: >> LS output is very speech unfriendly, > What do you mean? Because it speaks all file names? Not really, let me elaborate. Most screen readres have a browse mode for moving around the screen independently of the cursor. In the typical scenario you start examining screen reader output by enabling this browsing mode and then cursoring around the screen in line chunks. Speech is a linear medium with no easy means of skipping over columns of data, and it reads all columns from left to right. WIth this in mind the ls -l ordering and formatting is quite bad. For example: -rw-r--r-- 1 vtatila vtatila 17719 2006-02-16 13:10 License.txt The rights are read first and the file name is the right most column. Because of this one has to either cursor by word to reach the file name or wait for the whole line to be read. The file name should be left most to give the rest of the data, such as the rights, much more significance and context. ls doesn't let you modify the column order at all. I'll probably process the output with Perl if I must. For ideal speech use, columns should be comma or colon separated as they produce a pause in speech within most synths. Spaces do not add any pauses, and thus you get subsequent columns run together in a very fast and confusing speech stream. Further more, the permissions are clear visually or using Braille but not with speech: -rw-r--r-- dash are double you dash are dash dash and so on. The words read, write and execute might convey their meaning much better or simply using the mode in octal i.e: 644. Lastly, although I chose the FInnish time zone and keyboard the locale isnt quite right. The date is:' 2006-02-16 Which is bad as the year changes least often yet is the first thing you'll have to listen to. To follow the principle of most important and or surprising info first, I'd rather seee the dates in the order: dd.mm yy. On the other hand, MOst programmers will never even stop to think of how their textual output sounds with speech as they don't need it. Anyway, I'd appreciate any reformatting scripts people have done to address the ls -l problem so as to not re-invent the wheel. >> silence on success feels disconcerting, > Isn't the prompt spoken ? Nah, I mean the general Unix philosophy of not printing anything but a new line if everything went OK. FOr example, if you messed up with a copy and didn't have the verbose flag on, you would have no easy way to see or undo what was actually copied and where. This is one of the Nielsen heuristics in the GUI-world, visibility of system status. Here's the full list: http://www.useit.com/papers/heuristic/heuristic_list.html Of course, command-languages and power users are another story. ONe has to consider the context of use; you mentioned scripting already. The Unix history of programmer types and dumb terminals does affect matters, too. > when you use commands in a shell script, you don't want to have all > confirmations printed by default. But aren't you using the system mostly interactively? Another option is being verbose and interactive by default and having switches for turning them off typically -q and -y. Or being interactive if the input comes from the user's keyboard. > you can use another shell than bash Which one would be good as far as confirmations go? I've tried Fish but some of its coloring or special chars apparently trips up my emulated VT100. > problem is that programmers are programmers. But you can report this Quite right, I think I might consider reporting, good to know the option is available. >> That is more hand holding, > What do you mean ? Assuming that the user is not a programmer and might be new to the system. LInux is not very discoverable. You just canot guess that cat is short for concatenate or that chmod changes rights. Again I do realize these names are well established and short to type. I'd rather take long and discoverable names Java-style, which could then be predictably shortened based on a unique string prefix. The Perl utility PPM supports this you can type desc or just d in stead of describe. Another classic example of where one would need more help are the manual pages. SOmeone once said that docs written by software engineers tend to be the author's proud and often highly technical account of what's going on in a system and I feel just like that about the Unix manual pages. Why aren't common Unix terms explained or hyperlinked in the man pages? That would make the docs more readable for those new to Unix. For example: GNU find searches the directory tree rooted at each given file name by evaluating the given expression from left to right, according to the rules of precedence (see section OPERATORS), until the outcome is known (the left hand side is false for and operations, true for or), at which point find moves on to the next file name. This sentence says three or four things in a long, hard-to-understand style with two sets of parentheses in it. What is essential to me as a user is that: find selects files or folders based on a condition and runs one or more actions for each selected item, letting you apply the same command for a number of items. SOmetimes terse formalism has its place but find isn't a good example of that. The K&R book and many perldoc pages are, if you ask me. I think all this talk about Boolean logic, operators and precedence is mentioned too early. It is programmer terminology, too. Supposing one doesn't know programming, which I do, where do you find a definition of what is an operand or what precedence means? Shouldn't the manual pages be for people who don't know how to use the apps? To be frank, there are loads of Web tutorials and books about Unix which help a lot. All these questions remind me, are there explanations of shell commands geared towards say Windows or DOS programmers, or folks knowing ANSI C with no assumed Unix-knowledge? Sometimes that would be highly useful. I like the tone in this excellent Ubuntu package tutorial: http://www.monkeyblog.org/ubuntu/installing.html and here's a Wiki I found which answers many of the Ubuntu questions I've had including the admin rights in Gnome: http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Dapper > alias cp='cp -v' Just out of curiosity, can you still override that verbose flag on the command-line if the need be? > Do you really want to hear all files that are being transfered? Often I do. However, I tend to scan down the list and interrupt the speech frequently. > echo *.foo* Ah thanks. SO that would be something like: print join "\n", <*.foo*>; In Perl. >> [I] seem to have an immense dislike for most non-interactive Unix >> command-line apps and shells. Maybe this is just culture shock and >> initial change resistance. > Unfortunately, that's the Unix way of thinking Yep, that's why I'd really like to see an accessible GUI. Mind you've I've spend the last eight years or so in a GUi environment mostly. In that context, I like being able to do things without having to constantly think of how to do them. Another problem of mine, is that when I'm doing basic file operations I don't think of it as programming and don't like to deal with complexity and programmer terms. IF I need to do anything more advanced I'll usually turn to automation or Perl and in that contextshare the programmer mindset willingly. I guess this is an attitude issue once again. On a side note, Is there anything like the NOrton Tree for LInux? That's one of the first impressive DOS utils I fondly recall as a kid. > Microsoft writes software for general public. As does Apple, and many modern Unix apps are ment to be used by everyone. Which reminds me, do you know any console editors which would have both a menu bar (like Edit), and also hotkeys that are familiar to Windows or Gnome users? The closest vague matches I've found so far are Nano and Joe. > Note however: don't say "printing `cannot stat foo' sucks !, Won't do that, thanks for reminding me, . -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Oct 9 16:31:23 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 18:31:23 +0200 Subject: A Bit OT: Making the Command-Line Friendlier (DOS-Background, Long) In-Reply-To: <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Mon 09 Oct 2006 18:57:56 +0300, a écrit : > Samuel Thibault wrote: > >> LS output is very speech unfriendly, > > What do you mean? Because it speaks all file names? > WIth this in mind the ls -l ordering and formatting is quite bad. For > example: > > -rw-r--r-- 1 vtatila vtatila 17719 2006-02-16 13:10 License.txt Ah, I though would were criticizing the bare ls output. Well, yes, Unix' ls -l has been giving the file name at the far right for ages, but you can ask for an option which would put it at the far left. > Lastly, although I chose the FInnish time zone and keyboard the locale isnt > quite right. The date is:' > > 2006-02-16 > > Which is bad as the year changes least often yet is the first thing you'll > have to listen to. To follow the principle of most important and or > surprising info first, I'd rather seee the dates in the order: dd.mm yy. Just use the --time-style=locale option. Again, the standard unix way is to use the format above. > On the other hand, MOst programmers will never even stop to think of how > their textual output sounds with speech as they don't need it. The problem is _not_ to have programmers start thinking about this, but to provide them information so that they can put themselves in your place. Please don't consider that programmers are necessarily lazy. They are just _unable_ to know how they should do things. They have _never_ seen a braille device, and have _never_ heard a speech synthesizer, and even less know how all this may work. So just explain them how things should rather be done, and they'll implement that. > Anyway, I'd appreciate any reformatting scripts people have done to > address the ls -l problem so as to not re-invent the wheel. I'm not aware of any. I'd say you should ask coreutils' maintainer to add an option for choosing the exact format. Or explain him a format that would be suitable for speech. > >> silence on success feels disconcerting, > > Isn't the prompt spoken ? > Nah, I mean the general Unix philosophy of not printing anything but a new > line if everything went OK. That's what all Unix users are used to. You can't compete that. > > when you use commands in a shell script, you don't want to have all > > confirmations printed by default. > But aren't you using the system mostly interactively? Not really. I think twice before typing enter, and that's fine (that's why there is usually no "undelete" command in Unix, btw). > Another option is being verbose and interactive by default and > having switches for turning them off typically -q and -y. Or being > interactive if the input comes from the user's keyboard. Yes, this is what some distributions do by default, and I don't like it But you can do this for yourself. > > you can use another shell than bash > Which one would be good as far as confirmations go? zsh is fine. > >> That is more hand holding, > > What do you mean ? > Assuming that the user is not a programmer and might be new to the system. > LInux is not very discoverable. You just canot guess that cat is short for > concatenate or that chmod changes rights. Indeed, you need an introduction manual for this. There are plenty of them in libraries. Unix in general has the "read documentation, then work" philosophy, you can't compete that. > Another classic example of where one would need more help are the manual > pages. SOmeone once said that docs written by software engineers tend to be > the author's proud and often highly technical account of what's going on in > a system and I feel just like that about the Unix manual pages. Why aren't > common Unix terms explained or hyperlinked in the man pages? Because that's not how documentation works. Manual pages are reference documentation (i.e. "oh, how was this option named btw?"), not introduction documentation (info pages, books and teachers are there for this). Note: yes, there also are the info pages, that apparently (and unfortunately) few people know. Type info coreutils for instance, for having an introduction to coreutils tools. > This sentence says three or four things in a long, hard-to-understand style > with two sets of parentheses in it. Well, you're welcome to rephrase it and submit it > Shouldn't the manual pages be for people who don't know how to use the > apps? Historically speaking, no. Now, if you want this to change, just work on it ;) > > alias cp='cp -v' > Just out of curiosity, can you still override that verbose flag on the > command-line if the need be? Apparently unfortunately no. But you can skip the alias by using \cp foo bar > Another problem of mine, is that when I'm doing basic file operations > I don't think of it as programming and don't like to deal with > complexity and programmer terms. Well, the shell is indeed from the ground considered as a programming language... > On a side note, Is there anything like the NOrton Tree for LInux? That's one > of the first impressive DOS utils I fondly recall as a kid. Mmm, I can't remember exactly which one this was, maybe mc (midnight commander) and other such tools may fit your needs? > do you know any console editors which would have both a menu bar > (like Edit), and also hotkeys that are familiar to Windows or Gnome > users? The closest vague matches I've found so far are Nano and Joe. Yes. > > Note however: don't say "printing `cannot stat foo' sucks !, > Won't do that, thanks for reminding me, . Ah, that reminds me: ":)" is indeed probably not quite well read by speech synthesis, but most people will always use it. Solutions are needed for this too... Samuel From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Oct 9 16:34:45 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 18:34:45 +0200 Subject: A Bit OT: Making the Command-Line Friendlier (DOS-Background, Long) In-Reply-To: <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <20061009163445.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> Samuel Thibault, le Mon 09 Oct 2006 18:31:23 +0200, a écrit : > > This sentence says three or four things in a long, hard-to-understand style > > with two sets of parentheses in it. > > Well, you're welcome to rephrase it and submit it Don't take me wrong: I'm not too lazy to do it, but I'm just unable to do it, because as it is currently, this sentence is fine to me... So yes, documentation needs to be done by not-so-technical people. Samuel From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Mon Oct 9 18:21:16 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 21:21:16 +0300 Subject: A Bit OT: Making the Command-Line Friendlier (DOS-Background, Long) References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi Samuel, Thanks for your reply. I'll snip pretty much and only comment some conclusions and other points you raise. Samuel Thibault wrote: > Ah, I thought would were criticizing the bare ls output. Well, yes, Now that you got me going about this, I am, . I mean it lists multiple files on a line and most people cursor stuff in line chunks using console screen readres. So what I'll use in stead nearly always is ls -1. And I'd like to make that the default including piping it to the more or less commands. Well, does the alias syntax you showed me also work for zsh? Guess I should install it and read the manual. > Just use the --time-style=locale option. Again, the standard unix way is > to use the format above. Is that the C-locale? > The problem is _not_ to have programmers start thinking about this, > but to provide them information so that they can put themselves in your > place. I agree most of the time. SOmtimes it seems accessibility and usability conflict with each other, and in those cases usability is likely to win. For example, separating by commas would be easier to parse in once head with speech or in most scripting languages, but most people will find spaces look nicer. > Please don't consider that programmers are necessarily lazy. They are sometimes. One such thing are error messages. I sometimes write scripts in which error handling is the first thought that comes to mind stuff like: open my $file, '>', $name or die "cannot open $name because $!.\n"; and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The thing is: It is true that the file canot be opened but from the user's point of view it might very well be a save as operation. IN which case you should talk about saving as or writing a file as opposed to opening it. GUI people will think open refers to the open dialog. > So just explain them how things should rather be done, That's a good basic strategy I've used in Windows. The advantage in there is that tab order and focus handling are expected to work. If they don't, it is not exclusively an accessibility issue and fixing it is easy to justify. The same thing with Gnome. > think twice before typing enter Hmmm, I still don't like this. I mean, people are bound to make mistakes and I often do something and think afterwords. That's why, despite being a GUI power-user, I find the Bin extremely useful. In the GUI, it doesn't confirm deletion but if I notice that somethihng went wrong, ctrl+z brings it back. I suppose this will also work with Gnome, seeing how thoroughly they've cloned WIndows. > (that's why there is usually no "undelete" command in Unix, btw). And no decent script to implement a recycle bin, right? To be real affective I suppose one would have to hook into the underlying sys calls to have this work in apps in addition to just shells. >> Which one would be good as far as confirmations go? > zsh is fine. You mentioned later on that staying in the shell is considered almost programming and I said I don't like to do that in casual file management but do like Perl, actually. So if CSH has C-like syntax and ZSH includes Perlish regular expressions, is there a Perl shell? I think I read about some such project but they aren't actively being developed. > Unix in general has the "read documentation, thenwork" philosophy, you > can't compete that. Yeah, I've noticed. And often it means read the whole documentation, experiment, read it again and then succesfully use the command. This is totally unlike Unix but I've been toying around with the idea of a shell that was as polite as a Mac and had friendly pseudo object-oriented commands and named parameters ala Python. Something that's aimed at people who can just sit down at a terminal, type in help and be using the thing in minutes. Not as powerful as Unix would be, but you could certainly make such a shell much more powerful than the puny command.com. I suppose fish is currently about the friendliest shell there is. Unix users tend to be power-users and those who prefer the GUI try to avoid the command-line but will ultimately fail. This is one of the big disappointments to me. You need text config files and the shell as soon as something does not have a front-end or is not thought to be important enough to be configured by the average user. A major annoyance is that this includes Gnome themes, which are important for low-vision folks for accessibility's sake. > Manual pages are reference documentation ( Arrgh, that's quite bad really. Fortunately GUI apps have a sounder philosophy in this. No-one expects you to absolutely master an app based on a pure menu reference, for example. I know the comparison is a bit unfair but needless to say, I really don't liek this philosophy. Fortunately, the Unix man pages aren't exactly reference like, either. They are often tens of screenfuls and go into quite a lot of detail only they aren't quite thorough enough for new users, > introduction documentation (info pages, books and teachers are there Howabout Wikis? It would be great if ordinary users could instruct each other in using commands. You could then add analogies to DOS, Mac, common programming languages including Qbasic etc... > unfortunately) few people know. Type info coreutils for instance, for Thanks, will try that. HOW widely are these available? >> This sentence says three or four things in a long, >> hard-to-understand style with two sets of parentheses in it. > Well, you're welcome to rephrase it and submit it > because as it is currently, this sentence is fine to me... > yes, documentation needs to be done by not-so-technical people. Quite right. I could actually find loads and loads of other similar examples. This might not match the Unix philosophy but when wearing my user hat, I don't care how something works as long as it works. Dir is documented like this so it says: /S Displays files in specified directory and all subdirectories. That's all you need to know. Unix man pages go further and state that: -R, --recursive list subdirectories recursively Which makes sense for programmers, computer science folk and mathematicians but leaves the rest wondering what they might have missed. I find the DOS version clearer. I mean how many end users need to know whether the algorithm is recursive or not? You hardly ever run out of stack space anyway. None of the GUI tools I've seen use the term recursive, and I consider this a good thing. > Mmm, I can't remember exactly which one this was, maybe mc (midnight > commander) and other such tools may fit your needs? I tried MC a couple of days back and my WIndows screen reader didn't track the focus in the terminal emulator. It is probably quite a complex app for console screen readers. Are anyone else having better luck say with Yasr or Speakup? The Norton tree is simply a scrolling ASCII tree of directories in which you can navigate with arrows and go to a dir with enter. > ":)" is indeed probably not quite well read by speech synthesis, Colon right paren. Yup that's why I use pseudo HTMl tags myself. But this would be bad as a global abbreviation. Some programming construct is probably using it. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Oct 9 18:49:30 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:49:30 +0200 Subject: A Bit OT: Making the Command-Line Friendlier (DOS-Background, Long) In-Reply-To: <009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> <009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Mon 09 Oct 2006 21:21:16 +0300, a écrit : > So what I'll use in stead nearly always is ls -1. Yeah, that's a usual option for accessibility. > And I'd like to make that the default including piping it to the more > or less commands. ls always uses -1 when piped (for permitting | xargs for instance). > Well, does the alias syntax you showed me also work for zsh? Yes: alias is a standard sh command, so pretty all shells have it. > > Just use the --time-style=locale option. Again, the standard unix way is > > to use the format above. > Is that the C-locale? Exactly. Using --time-style=locale makes ls use your own language/country combinaison's locale. > > The problem is _not_ to have programmers start thinking about this, > > but to provide them information so that they can put themselves in your > > place. > I agree most of the time. SOmtimes it seems accessibility and usability > conflict with each other, and in those cases usability is likely to win. For > example, separating by commas would be easier to parse in once head with > speech or in most scripting languages, but most people will find spaces look > nicer. And programmers wouldn't even have thought about using commas (I wouldn't). The problem is really "accessibility of accessibility" (i.e. providing programmers access to the accessible way of thinking). > > Please don't consider that programmers are necessarily lazy. > They are sometimes. One such thing are error messages. Well, here, yes > > (that's why there is usually no "undelete" command in Unix, btw). > And no decent script to implement a recycle bin, right? Indeed. But gnome & co implement it of course. > To be real affective I suppose one would have to hook into the > underlying sys calls to have this work in apps in addition to just > shells. IIRC it was developped, but never really to the point of being usable. > is there a Perl shell? I think I read about some such project but they > aren't actively being developed. Possibly, yes. > You need text config files and the shell as soon as something does > not have a front-end or is not thought to be important enough to be > configured by the average user. Well, at least you have a relatively simple text config (with doc). On windows you'd have to dig into the registry... > > Manual pages are reference documentation ( > Arrgh, that's quite bad really. Fortunately GUI apps have a sounder > philosophy in this. No-one expects you to absolutely master an app based on > a pure menu reference, for example. I know the comparison is a bit unfair > but needless to say, I really don't liek this philosophy. But once learned, this is a very efficient approach. Yes, it means learning. Well, yes, bare unix will probably be for programmers for long. > > introduction documentation (info pages, books and teachers are there > Howabout Wikis? There are on the web. > > unfortunately) few people know. Type info coreutils for instance, for > Thanks, will try that. HOW widely are these available? What do you mean by "widely"? Any distribution will for sure provide them. Now, do all packages have such documentation? GNU packages, yes, because that's in their development policy. Else, not so much, unfortunately. BTW, maybe you'l find pinfo easier for browsing info pages. > /S Displays files in specified directory and all subdirectories. > -R, --recursive list subdirectories recursively > > Which makes sense for programmers, computer science folk and mathematicians > but leaves the rest wondering what they might have missed. I find the DOS > version clearer. Yes, just to repeat myself: unix was meant for programmers ; DOS, for real users... > > Mmm, I can't remember exactly which one this was, maybe mc (midnight > > commander) and other such tools may fit your needs? > I tried MC a couple of days back and my WIndows screen reader didn't track > the focus in the terminal emulator. It is probably quite a complex app for > console screen readers. Oh, maybe you should use the accessible version which has proper cursor routing: amc. > The Norton tree is simply a scrolling ASCII tree of directories in which you > can navigate with arrows and go to a dir with enter. Ok. I don't know such program. Samuel From kb8aey at verizon.net Mon Oct 9 19:38:24 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 14:38:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: anyway to stop orca from speaking. Message-ID: <0J6V00CSBVW0ALA7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, when doing a dist upgrade through apt-get, is there a way to keep orca from speaking all the time. Mike. From kenny at hittsjunk.net Tue Oct 10 10:27:41 2006 From: kenny at hittsjunk.net (Kenny Hitt) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 05:27:41 -0500 Subject: anyway to stop orca from speaking. In-Reply-To: <0J6V00CSBVW0ALA7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6V00CSBVW0ALA7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20061010102740.GA13091@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Hi. I can think of two ways. You can press insert-s to silence speech system wide in Orca. Insert-s again will turn speech back on again. You can also just minimize the terminal window running the dist-upgrade. When it is minimized, it won't speak. Hope this helps. Kenny On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 02:38:24PM -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, when doing a dist upgrade through apt-get, > is there a way to keep orca from speaking all the time. > Mike. > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Tue Oct 10 11:00:31 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:00:31 +0300 Subject: Making the Command-Line Friendlier References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> <009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> Message-ID: <003301c6ec5b$5108ad20$7901a8c0@centrino> Hi Samuel, not really OT any more, so subject changed. Samuel Thibault wrote: > Yes: alias is a standard sh command, so pretty all shells have it. A good tip, thanks. I'll try reading the sh man page to see what else it has got. > The problem is really "accessibility of accessibility" That's quite right. I view the ability to customize apps to one's needs, be they GUI or CLI, as a big part of accessibility. The beauty of Unix is, of course, that even if the original format would be bad in terms of accessibility, you can reformat all you like by piping stuff to other commands. Perl is what I'm going to use mostly as I kno and like it. And it works in Windows, too. > Indeed. But gnome & co implement it of course. I'm glad they did. I suppose KDE has one, too. DOes the Gnome trash also handle terminals running on the desktop? > Well, at least you have a relatively simple text config (with doc). > On windows you'd have to dig into the registry... True true, I don't like that either. Gnome's Gconf app is a cleaner implementation with a much better GUI and naming than Regedit. The trouble is that ORca doesn't trakc my selection in trying to edit a list of items in Gconf such as the visible columns in Nautilus. > What do you mean by "widely"? Any distribution will for sure provide > them. Now, do all packages have such documentation? GNU packages, > yes, because that's in their development policy. Else, not so much, OK good to know. That was just what I ment by widely that is how many apps have them and you seem to have already answerd that. Good. > BTW, maybe you'l find pinfo easier for browsing info pages. Just installed it. INfo is quite nice, info core-utils gives a clear categorization of what the various shell commands operate on, for example. Kind of like perlfunc is for Perl, for an analogy. > Oh, maybe you should use the accessible version which has proper > cursor routing: amc. Hmm in which repository is this? I've enabled Universe through the GUI but still cannot find it: Building dependency tree... Done E: Couldn't find package amc -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Tue Oct 10 12:07:52 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:07:52 +0200 Subject: Making the Command-Line Friendlier In-Reply-To: <003301c6ec5b$5108ad20$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> <009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> <003301c6ec5b$5108ad20$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <20061010120752.GK3384@implementation.labri.fr> Hi, Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 14:00:31 +0300, a écrit : > > Indeed. But gnome & co implement it of course. > I'm glad they did. I suppose KDE has one, too. DOes the Gnome trash also > handle terminals running on the desktop? No, it can only intercept gnome actions, not actions of applications running in a gnome terminal. > > Oh, maybe you should use the accessible version which has proper > > cursor routing: amc. > Hmm in which repository is this? I've enabled Universe through the GUI but > still cannot find it: > Building dependency tree... Done > E: Couldn't find package amc It's probably not packaged in ubuntu, it is available at http://www.mistigri.org/~yan/projs/amc/ It is a french page, but you'll find "Télécharger" Samuel From krister at kristersplace.ws Tue Oct 10 12:13:09 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:13:09 +0200 Subject: A Bit OT: Making the Command-Line Friendlier (DOS-Background, Long) In-Reply-To: <20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> <009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> Message-ID: <1160482390.4769.18.camel@krister-desktop> On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:49 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Mon 09 Oct 2006 21:21:16 +0300, a écrit : > > You need text config files and the shell as soon as something does > > not have a front-end or is not thought to be important enough to be > > configured by the average user. > > Well, at least you have a relatively simple text config (with doc). On > windows you'd have to dig into the registry... > True, but in Linux you also have Webmin, which can configure much of the system from a web interface. > > > Manual pages are reference documentation ( > > Arrgh, that's quite bad really. Fortunately GUI apps have a sounder > > philosophy in this. No-one expects you to absolutely master an app based on > > a pure menu reference, for example. I know the comparison is a bit unfair > > but needless to say, I really don't liek this philosophy. > > But once learned, this is a very efficient approach. Yes, it means > learning. Well, yes, bare unix will probably be for programmers for > long. > Yes and it's sad because unix/Linux is a powerful system but unless it doesn't get user friendlier, which it works on, it's gonna be kinda hard to convinse windows folks to leave Windows... > > > unfortunately) few people know. Type info coreutils for instance, for > > Thanks, will try that. HOW widely are these available? > > What do you mean by "widely"? Any distribution will for sure provide > them. Now, do all packages have such documentation? GNU packages, yes, > because that's in their development policy. Else, not so much, > unfortunately. > And in some cases, the info pages point to man pages. > BTW, maybe you'l find pinfo easier for browsing info pages. > Thanks for the tip. Have installed it now and will have a look at it. > > > Mmm, I can't remember exactly which one this was, maybe mc (midnight > > > commander) and other such tools may fit your needs? > > I tried MC a couple of days back and my WIndows screen reader didn't track > > the focus in the terminal emulator. It is probably quite a complex app for > > console screen readers. > > Oh, maybe you should use the accessible version which has proper cursor > routing: amc. > Where can you obtain this? I checked but Ubuntu didn't have it. On another not, would it be at all possible for Brltty to have some kind of option to track other cursors than the standard system cursor, for example the soft cursor found in MC? > > The Norton tree is simply a scrolling ASCII tree of directories in which you > > can navigate with arrows and go to a dir with enter. > > Ok. I don't know such program. > There's a simple file manager whos name i can't quite remember, but i think it was something like Pilot. -- /Krister From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Tue Oct 10 12:23:44 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:23:44 +0200 Subject: A Bit OT: Making the Command-Line Friendlier (DOS-Background, Long) In-Reply-To: <1160482390.4769.18.camel@krister-desktop> References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> <009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> <1160482390.4769.18.camel@krister-desktop> Message-ID: <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> Krister Ekstrom, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 14:13:09 +0200, a écrit : > > But once learned, this is a very efficient approach. Yes, it means > > learning. Well, yes, bare unix will probably be for programmers for > > long. > > > Yes and it's sad because unix/Linux is a powerful system but unless it > doesn't get user friendlier, which it works on, it's gonna be kinda hard > to convinse windows folks to leave Windows... I'm talking about unix, not gnome. You can very well be a windows folk using a GNU/Linux system through gnome, you won't need to have the unixish way of thinking. > Where can you obtain this? I checked but Ubuntu didn't have it. > On another not, would it be at all possible for Brltty to have some kind > of option to track other cursors than the standard system cursor, for > example the soft cursor found in MC? The problem with "soft cursor" is precisely that it is "soft": only MC knows about it. The correction is quite simple: just have MC route the "hard" cursor just like the "soft" one. That's precisely what AMC does. In general, if a text application behaves like MC, just send an email to the author, it will probably not be very hard to fix that. Samuel From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Tue Oct 10 13:47:59 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:47:59 +0300 Subject: Semi OT: Unix Philosophy and Accessibility, MIDI Seqs, Editors and Devel Tools References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino><20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr><006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino><20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr><009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino><20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr><1160482390.4769.18.camel@krister-desktop> <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> Samuel Thibault wrote: > Krister Ekstrom, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 14:13:09 +0200, a écrit : >> Yes and it's sad because unix/Linux is a powerful system but unless >> it doesn't get user friendlier, which it works on, it's gonna be >> kinda hard to convinse windows folks to leave Windows... > I'm talking about unix, not gnome. You can very well be a windows > folk using a GNU/Linux system through gnome, you won't need to have > the unixish way of thinking. Hmm, let me insert a couple of comments. FIrst of all, the text-based LInux philosophy isn't quite as good as one might initially think. There seem to be about a zillion app specific config file formats out there and the general attitude is that the user is perfectly capable and willing to invest the time and effort to write his or her configs. A unified config file format would be good and OK for quick hacks, but the DOS attitued is that a textual frontend is always preferrable to config files. Again these are user culture differences. personally, I've got a practical attitude to computing. I use the OS because it's got software I need for doing stuff e.g. driving MIDI synths, recording multi-track audio or word processing to mention a few things. ARe there any accessible MIDI sequencers for Linux that have a GUI, for example? Something akin to QWS the Quick WIndows Sequencer would be preferrable and I wouldn't mind scripting either. In this context of using applications, editing configs can seem pointless unless it means concrete productivity or performance boostts e.g. less visual clutter, the ability to remove media directly or lower audio latency etc... Personally, I think you cannot rely on Gnome full time if you've got any special requirements like accessibility. In no time, you must work in the console and deal with cryptic commands and imposed Unix philosophy. I'm beginning to feel that LInux isn't quite ready for mainstream blind folks just yet. Accessibility is one big thing: basic Gnome apps have quite bad issues, GTK 2 and the up-coming QT4 are the only accessible libs and there are lots of folk who seem to think all blind folks like a command-language best. I'm not part of that lot, for example, and am not the only one. The reason why I installed Linux this time was to do development work in it as I'm attending a Unix programming course using Gnome. One reason for staying in the console is that I haven't found graphical development tools yet. Eclipse appears to use some custom Java GUI and I'd be positively surprised if that's accessible with Orca. Any tools you could recommend for writing C-apps and editing Gnome GUis? By the way, I've been looking into simple console editors lately and neither Nano nor Joe is quite as interactive as I'd like. My DOS memories include ASCII-graphical menubars and menus, arrow based commands for marking lines of text and MODAL dialogs for setting colors, opening or saving files and so on. Is this level of interactivity and visual feedback too much to ask from a console Linux app, . I'm waiting for some Orca bugs to be fixed and apparently need to work in the console. Speaking of Orca, someone just filed the bug I reported here about Gnome panel crashing. Excellent. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Tue Oct 10 14:05:55 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:05:55 +0200 Subject: Semi OT: Unix Philosophy and Accessibility, MIDI Seqs, Editors and Devel Tools In-Reply-To: <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <20061010140555.GX3384@implementation.labri.fr> Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 16:47:59 +0300, a écrit : > personally, I've got a practical attitude to computing. I use the OS > because it's got software I need for doing stuff e.g. driving MIDI synths, > recording multi-track audio or word processing to mention a few things. ARe > there any accessible MIDI sequencers for Linux that have a GUI, for example? There are both MIDI sequencers with a textual UI and a graphical UI > Any tools you could recommend for writing C-apps and editing Gnome > GUis? For editing Gnome GUIs, glade should be accessible. Samuel From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Tue Oct 10 14:23:19 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:23:19 +0300 Subject: Software: MIDI Seqs, Graphical Devel Tools References: <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010140555.GX3384@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <002901c6ec77$a55d3410$7901a8c0@centrino> Samuel Thibault wrote: > There are both MIDI sequencers with a textual UI and a graphical UI Good to know. Graphical would be my cup of tea. So Which ones do work with Orca? Of course, in my case this is just an experimental setup. I'm not sure at all how well Linux and VmWare will handle a MIDI Man MIDI Sport 4x4 and what the realtime performance is like in a VM. We'll see. I'm considering Windows virtualization under OS X so if virtual machine's can't handle real-time audio apps, that might have repurcussions onOS X usage, too. Are there any soft synths with which I could compose an play GM pieces? Something like the GS Wavetable Synth except with low latency. That would be the easiest option compared to trying to move all of my synths to a virtual LInux box at once. >> Any tools you could recommend for writing C-apps and editing Gnome >> GUis? > For editing Gnome GUIs, glade should be accessible. Is it text based or graphical, by the way. It is not that big a difference in this case. I'm wearing my progremmer hat and thus am willing to edit make files, resource scripts and such. Of course, I've been spoiled by Visual Studio so graphical debugging would rock, too. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Tue Oct 10 14:26:47 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:26:47 +0200 Subject: Software: MIDI Seqs, Graphical Devel Tools In-Reply-To: <002901c6ec77$a55d3410$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010140555.GX3384@implementation.labri.fr> <002901c6ec77$a55d3410$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <20061010142647.GY3384@implementation.labri.fr> Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 17:23:19 +0300, a écrit : > >> Any tools you could recommend for writing C-apps and editing Gnome > >> GUis? > > For editing Gnome GUIs, glade should be accessible. > Is it text based or graphical, by the way. It is not that big a difference > in this case. I'm wearing my progremmer hat and thus am willing to edit make > files, resource scripts and such. Of course, I've been spoiled by Visual > Studio so graphical debugging would rock, too. Since it is for graphical interfaces, glade is graphical. Mmm, that said, since it involves putting buttons on windows, it might not be so accessible. Samuel From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Tue Oct 10 15:16:43 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:16:43 +0300 Subject: Software: Graphical Devel Tools References: <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010140555.GX3384@implementation.labri.fr> <002901c6ec77$a55d3410$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010142647.GY3384@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <003401c6ec7f$1afe8f50$7901a8c0@centrino> Samuel Thibault wrote: > Veli-Pekka Tätilä, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 17:23:19 +0300, a écrit : >>>> Any tools you could recommend for writing C-apps and editing Gnome >>>> GUis? >>> For editing Gnome GUIs, glade should be accessible. >> Is it text based or graphical, by the way. It is not that big a >> difference in this case. > Since it is for graphical interfaces, glade is graphical. Well, you can never tell even for graphical Linux apps, . Actually I do have a bit of sight left so I can probably use my host-side magnifier to magnify the VmWare screen and drag drop controls in a GUI. That's the easiest method for me in Windows, although it is much slower than for the sighted. At any rate, the ability to use the GUI editor dialogs with Orca, and hotkeys for moving or selecting particular controls, would help as well. PS: The Perlish shell appears to be psh. Just installed it. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From lists at janc.be Tue Oct 10 18:17:48 2006 From: lists at janc.be (Jan Claeys) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:17:48 +0200 Subject: Software: MIDI Seqs, Graphical Devel Tools In-Reply-To: <20061010142647.GY3384@implementation.labri.fr> References: <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010140555.GX3384@implementation.labri.fr> <002901c6ec77$a55d3410$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010142647.GY3384@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <1160504269.14213.42.camel@localhost> Op dinsdag 10-10-2006 om 16:26 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Samuel Thibault: > Since it is for graphical interfaces, glade is graphical. Glade-the-application is graphical, but .glade files are just XML of course. I'm not sure what's easiest to edit for someone who's blind? -- Jan Claeys From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Tue Oct 10 18:28:42 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:28:42 +0200 Subject: Software: MIDI Seqs, Graphical Devel Tools In-Reply-To: <1160504269.14213.42.camel@localhost> References: <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010140555.GX3384@implementation.labri.fr> <002901c6ec77$a55d3410$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010142647.GY3384@implementation.labri.fr> <1160504269.14213.42.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20061010182842.GB4731@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> Jan Claeys, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 20:17:48 +0200, a écrit : > Op dinsdag 10-10-2006 om 16:26 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Samuel > Thibault: > > Since it is for graphical interfaces, glade is graphical. > > Glade-the-application is graphical, but .glade files are just XML of > course. I'm not sure what's easiest to edit for someone who's blind? As usual with XML, .glade files are more storage files than editable files :) From lists at janc.be Tue Oct 10 18:44:18 2006 From: lists at janc.be (Jan Claeys) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:44:18 +0200 Subject: Software: MIDI Seqs, Graphical Devel Tools In-Reply-To: <20061010182842.GB4731@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> References: <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010140555.GX3384@implementation.labri.fr> <002901c6ec77$a55d3410$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010142647.GY3384@implementation.labri.fr> <1160504269.14213.42.camel@localhost> <20061010182842.GB4731@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> Message-ID: <1160505859.14213.50.camel@localhost> Op dinsdag 10-10-2006 om 20:28 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Samuel Thibault: > Jan Claeys, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 20:17:48 +0200, a écrit : > > Glade-the-application is graphical, but .glade files are just XML of > > course. I'm not sure what's easiest to edit for someone who's blind? > > As usual with XML, .glade files are more storage files than editable > files :) Well, there are some general XML editors that show the XML structure as a tree (a bit like the "widget tree view" in glade, that could be useful too). -- Jan Claeys From lists at janc.be Tue Oct 10 18:44:33 2006 From: lists at janc.be (Jan Claeys) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:44:33 +0200 Subject: Semi OT: Unix Philosophy and Accessibility, MIDI Seqs, Editors and Devel Tools In-Reply-To: <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> <009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> <1160482390.4769.18.camel@krister-desktop> <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <1160505874.14213.52.camel@localhost> Op dinsdag 10-10-2006 om 16:47 uur [tijdzone +0300], schreef Veli-Pekka Tätilä: > By the way, I've been looking into simple console editors lately and neither > Nano nor Joe is quite as interactive as I'd like. My DOS memories include > ASCII-graphical menubars and menus, arrow based commands for marking lines > of text and MODAL dialogs for setting colors, opening or saving files and so > on. Is this level of interactivity and visual feedback too much to ask from > a console Linux app, . You might want to have a look at fte-console and/or fte-terminal. -- Jan Claeys From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Tue Oct 10 19:16:01 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:16:01 +0200 Subject: Software: MIDI Seqs, Graphical Devel Tools In-Reply-To: <1160505859.14213.50.camel@localhost> References: <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010140555.GX3384@implementation.labri.fr> <002901c6ec77$a55d3410$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061010142647.GY3384@implementation.labri.fr> <1160504269.14213.42.camel@localhost> <20061010182842.GB4731@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> <1160505859.14213.50.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20061010191601.GC4731@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> Jan Claeys, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 20:44:18 +0200, a écrit : > Op dinsdag 10-10-2006 om 20:28 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Samuel > Thibault: > > Jan Claeys, le Tue 10 Oct 2006 20:17:48 +0200, a écrit : > > > Glade-the-application is graphical, but .glade files are just XML of > > > course. I'm not sure what's easiest to edit for someone who's blind? > > > > As usual with XML, .glade files are more storage files than editable > > files :) > > Well, there are some general XML editors that show the XML structure as > a tree (a bit like the "widget tree view" in glade, that could be useful > too). Yes, but XML files tend to have bigger and bigger trees. And in the case of .glade files, tree items don't necessarily have any logical order (since only the graphical output is what the programme usually expect). Samuel From jasongrieves at gmail.com Wed Oct 11 04:00:23 2006 From: jasongrieves at gmail.com (Jason Grieves) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 00:00:23 -0400 Subject: gnome-mag + edgy eft + composite Message-ID: <001001c6ece9$c753f0a0$6601a8c0@grievesbeast> FYI all, lets give Carlos some credit and testing! Looking great on my laptop over here!!! http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1603086#post1603086 The gnome-mag file is available in the second post. I didn't want to make a deb right now to interfere with edgy upstream. This will install to /usr/local. The command to use is given, which enables composite, full screen, mouse following, and "pushing" the screen Thanks, Jason Grieves -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 11 14:22:29 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:22:29 -0000 Subject: [Bug 59531] Re: Add a 'Quit Orca' button References: <20060908143355.16647.56054.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061011142230.19386.7880.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> gnome-orca (1.0.0-0ubuntu3) edgy; urgency=low . * debian/patches/10-quit-button-bug-59531.dpatch: - applied patches from Malone: #59531, thanks Chris Jones for working on this. ** Changed in: gnome-orca (Ubuntu) Status: In Progress => Fix Released -- Add a 'Quit Orca' button https://launchpad.net/bugs/59531 From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Oct 12 09:03:54 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:03:54 +0200 Subject: Oralux repository In-Reply-To: <17703.35950.355261.677358@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <17703.35950.355261.677358@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <452E04FA.3090201@ubuntu.com> Hi Gilles! Thanks for letting us know about this! Sorry for not responding sooner (things are a bit hectic these days). It is very interesting to hear of your repository, including the mbrola packages. This would be a great addition to our offering as well. I've just tested your repository -- I'm able to install mbrola and voices happily in Edgy (though I'm not sure how to activate/use them). We're working on a specification for multilingual support (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/MultilingualSpeechSynthesis) where mbrola would fit in well. I guess some work is still needed to make it integrate well with Orca or speech dispatcher so that it will be very simple for the user to switch from one synth to another. We should also talk about shared repository hosting. We have good capacity in terms of hardware and bandwith so we can help with that. We also have a separate 'commercial' repository where non-free things can go. Henrik Gilles Casse wrote: > Hello, > > The Oralux repository is under construction: it currently includes > around 30 new packages. > > This repository includes the MBROLA packages which are proprietary and > can not be included in a commercial project without permissions (the > license is much more detailled of course). Before including these > packages in Oralux, we contacted Dr Thierry Dutoit and the other > copyright holders for the MBROLA databases. > > If possible, the best would be that some of our packages migrate to the > repository of major distributions. > > It might ease for example the multispeech installation and its six > related languages. > > These packages are compliant with a Debian testing (Knoppix 5.0.1 in > fact). > > Igor B. Poretsky kindly proposed his Debian packages (particularly for > mbrola). Another source could have been the Brlspeak project since > Sebastien François built some of these packages. > > Lukas Loehrer kindly proposes his eflite/flite packages compliant with > ALSA. He also helped to improve some of my multipeech packages. > > The current Oralux repository is available with these lines in the > sources.list file: > > deb http://oralux.net/packages unstable main non-free contrib > deb-src http://oralux.net/packages unstable main non-free contrib > > > Best regards, > > Gilles > > > From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 13 14:40:37 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:40:37 -0000 Subject: [Bug 65921] Re: gnome accessibility: Uncontrolable by keyboard References: <20061013124833.3013.52405.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061013144037.3013.16582.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Thanks for your bug report. Which version of Ubuntu do you use? ** Changed in: gnome-applets (Ubuntu) Sourcepackagename: gnome-applets => control-center Importance: Undecided => Low Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Desktop Bugs Status: Unconfirmed => Needs Info -- gnome accessibility: Uncontrolable by keyboard https://launchpad.net/bugs/65921 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 13 14:39:55 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:39:55 -0000 Subject: [Bug 65920] Re: gnome accessibility: Messes up keyboard References: <20061013124701.19386.86635.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061013143956.3126.57556.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Thanks for your bug report. Which version of Ubuntu do you use? ** Changed in: gnome-applets (Ubuntu) Sourcepackagename: gnome-applets => control-center Importance: Undecided => Low Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Desktop Bugs ** Changed in: control-center (Ubuntu) Status: Unconfirmed => Needs Info -- gnome accessibility: Messes up keyboard https://launchpad.net/bugs/65920 From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 13 14:40:11 2006 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:40:11 -0000 Subject: [Bug 65918] Re: gnome accessibility: Wrong name References: <20061013124508.3126.63812.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061013144011.3126.7085.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Thanks for your bug report. Which version of Ubuntu do you use? ** Changed in: gnome-applets (Ubuntu) Sourcepackagename: gnome-applets => control-center Importance: Undecided => Low Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Desktop Bugs Status: Unconfirmed => Needs Info -- gnome accessibility: Wrong name https://launchpad.net/bugs/65918 From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 13 15:34:46 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:34:46 -0000 Subject: [Bug 65920] Re: gnome accessibility: Messes up keyboard References: <20061013124701.19386.86635.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061013153446.3013.74178.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I see the same thing on Edgy (near RC). It's the slow keys dialog that does it. I have sticky keys enabled and when I open Gedit after this dialog pops up I am not able to type into it before it's closed. I agree that these dialogs are generally bad and need to be redesigned. I'll spec it up for Edgy+1. ** Changed in: control-center (Ubuntu) Assignee: Ubuntu Desktop Bugs => Henrik Nilsen Omma Status: Needs Info => Confirmed -- gnome accessibility: Messes up keyboard https://launchpad.net/bugs/65920 From edward.cesena at imperial.edu Fri Oct 13 16:43:10 2006 From: edward.cesena at imperial.edu (Eddieduce) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:43:10 -0000 Subject: [Bug 55566] Re: The greeter application appears to be crashing with "Enable accessible login" References: <20060808025135.9092.32799.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061013164311.19052.45512.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> In my case, Ubuntu 6.06 with all updates, I had been doing a re-install and first noticed that the VNC remote connection was automatically changed to "localhost:0", withought an option to change it. I then proceded to going to Administration\Login Window to enable and attempt remote connection throught this feature. Here are the settings I had made: (None listed items had been left as default) Remote * Style: Same as Local * Welcome Message: Default Accessibility * Enable Accessible Login while at the same time setting a picture for which there is no option to disable it. I attempted the recomendation to swith themes but that did not duplicated the specified and desired results after a restart. -Eddieduce -- The greeter application appears to be crashing with "Enable accessible login" https://launchpad.net/bugs/55566 From edward.cesena at imperial.edu Fri Oct 13 16:52:12 2006 From: edward.cesena at imperial.edu (Eddieduce) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:52:12 -0000 Subject: [Bug 55566] Re: The greeter application appears to be crashing with "Enable accessible login" References: <20060808025135.9092.32799.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061013165212.19052.48448.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> .... Site controler, notice that my signiature is out of place. .... The error message that is displayed is: "The greeter application appears to be crashing. Attempting to use a different one." Screen saver still works. -Eddieduce -- The greeter application appears to be crashing with "Enable accessible login" https://launchpad.net/bugs/55566 From jani.monoses at gmail.com Fri Oct 13 17:07:02 2006 From: jani.monoses at gmail.com (Jani Monoses) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:07:02 +0300 Subject: xubuntu liveCD options Message-ID: Hello based on what the ubuntu live CD is doing when a11y is enabled I am looking at a set of good defaults for xfce to provide at least some options on the xubuntu CD. If anyone is runnig xfce please let me know what do you think a good equivalent for the v1 option is (lesser visual impairment) For now I set the HighContrast icon theme the HighContrastLargePrint gtk theme, and a 48 pixels large whiteglass cursor just like ubuntu. I don't know which xfwm4 window manager theme and background image and style would be best so any suggestions are welcome. If you have a setup you think would be generally useful please send me the gtk.xml,xfwm4.xml and desktop.xml files from under ~/.config/xfce4/mcs_settings as that is where user prefs are kept. thanks Jani From gcasse at oralux.org Fri Oct 13 21:25:01 2006 From: gcasse at oralux.org (Gilles Casse) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 23:25:01 +0200 Subject: Oralux repository In-Reply-To: <452E04FA.3090201@ubuntu.com> References: <17703.35950.355261.677358@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <452E04FA.3090201@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <17712.1069.984038.206561@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Hello Henrik, Thank you for your answer. This repository can help for example to install Multispeech as offered in the Oralux CD. The package is named multispeech-oralux . Multispeech is the multilingual speech server for Emacspeak written by Igor B. Poretsky. This speech server requires Emacspeak 24 offered in Debian testing: http://packages.debian.org/testing/editors/emacspeak Igor originally proposed an automatic Russian/English detection embedded in Multispeech itself. This feature is not offered with the others languages. Our language switching support for Emacspeak using Multispeech or IBM TTS is quite basic at the moment: the user holds a function key for switching to the next language. We hope if time allows to associate a language by buffer. If I remember well speechd-el proposes already this feature. I realize once more how the accessibility technologies are varied, and this is good for the users. It would be also quite interesting to be able to take in account the lang attribute when reading a web page. I guess that these features have their analogy in Orca or LSR. Best regards, Gilles -- Oralux http://oralux.org From henrik at ubuntu.com Sat Oct 14 08:57:34 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:57:34 -0000 Subject: [Bug 55566] Re: The greeter application appears to be crashing with "Enable accessible login" References: <20060808025135.9092.32799.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061014085734.3013.43035.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Accessible login has not been properly tested on Ubuntu, and it seems to be a topic that has gone a bit stale upstream in gnome as well. There are instructions on getting it working here: http://www.gnome.org/learn/access-guide/latest/sysadmin-27.html but they are far from user friendly and possibly out of date. Turning on accessible login by default was discussed at the gnome Boston summit and we have a spec for Edgy+1 on it as well: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/AccessGDM -- The greeter application appears to be crashing with "Enable accessible login" https://launchpad.net/bugs/55566 From henrik at ubuntu.com Sat Oct 14 09:00:32 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 09:00:32 -0000 Subject: [Bug 55566] Re: The greeter application appears to be crashing with "Enable accessible login" References: <20060808025135.9092.32799.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061014090032.19052.23978.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Marking this as Confirmed and as wishlist, since are really looking for a Just Works version of accessible login, which has never existed. The settings give the impression that it has, but that is misleading. ** Changed in: gdm (Ubuntu) Importance: Medium => Wishlist Assignee: Ubuntu Desktop Bugs => Accessibility Status: Needs Info => Confirmed -- The greeter application appears to be crashing with "Enable accessible login" https://launchpad.net/bugs/55566 From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi Sat Oct 14 09:47:27 2006 From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (=?iso-8859-15?Q?Veli-Pekka_T=E4til=E4?=) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:47:27 +0300 Subject: Friendly Editors: fte-console and fte-terminal References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino><20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr><006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino><20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr><009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino><20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr><1160482390.4769.18.camel@krister-desktop><20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr><001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> <1160505874.14213.52.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <000501c6ef75$c54ae5f0$7901a8c0@centrino> Jan Claeys wrote: > Veli-Pekka Tätilä wrote: >> By the way, I've been looking into simple console editors lately and >> neither Nano nor Joe is quite as interactive as I'd like. My DOS >> memories include ASCII-graphical menubars and menus, arrow based >> commands for marking lines of text and MODAL dialogs for setting >> colors, opening or saving files and so on. Is this level of >> interactivity and visual feedback too much to ask from a console >> Linux app, . > You might want to have a look at fte-console and/or fte-terminal. Thanks for the tips. I've installed both now but the trouble is I cannot find them. The commands fte-console or fte-terminal do nothing and neither do man or info with either name come up with anything useful. I used the locate command and found some docs in usr/share but only a readme file. So where is the full manual and how to run these apps in the first place? Most links and pages I was able to Google about these editors were down. ALthough it seems the the fte foldable text editors have been available for multiple platforms and some people have reviewed them favorably. Any help appreciated. I wonder if the author's e-mail address is valid. I might try that too, at some point. -- With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi) Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ From William.Walker at Sun.COM Sat Oct 14 16:12:08 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:12:08 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Announcing Orca v2.17.1] Message-ID: <1160842328.24193.17.camel@ubuntu> FYI...Orca v2.17.1 was posted today. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Willie Walker Subject: Announcing Orca v2.17.1 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:09:57 -0400 Size: 4053 URL: From lists at janc.be Sat Oct 14 17:44:29 2006 From: lists at janc.be (Jan Claeys) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:44:29 +0200 Subject: Friendly Editors: fte-console and fte-terminal In-Reply-To: <000501c6ef75$c54ae5f0$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <001e01c6eb69$71bec920$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009085201.GD3443@implementation.labri.fr> <006a01c6ebbb$b2e93f00$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009163123.GC3443@implementation.labri.fr> <009d01c6ebcf$b8a3fbb0$7901a8c0@centrino> <20061009184930.GA5212@bouh.residence.ens-lyon.fr> <1160482390.4769.18.camel@krister-desktop> <20061010122344.GN3384@implementation.labri.fr> <001501c6ec72$b5cf81e0$7901a8c0@centrino> <1160505874.14213.52.camel@localhost> <000501c6ef75$c54ae5f0$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <1160847870.15153.43.camel@localhost> Op zaterdag 14-10-2006 om 12:47 uur [tijdzone +0300], schreef Veli-Pekka Tätilä: > Jan Claeys wrote: > > You might want to have a look at fte-console and/or fte-terminal. > Thanks for the tips. I've installed both now but the trouble is I cannot > find them. The commands fte-console or fte-terminal do nothing and neither > do man or info with either name come up with anything useful. I used the > locate command and found some docs in usr/share but only a readme file. You can only use one of them at the same time, and it is started as 'fte' ('fte-console' and 'fte-terminal' each use a different way to display things on the screen). -- Jan Claeys From kb8aey at verizon.net Sun Oct 15 05:22:06 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:22:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: info on open office writer. Message-ID: <0J7500F0ZW8TUCZ0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, are there still issues when running open office writer with orca. I had the following experience after getting updates today. When I ran the spell checker and it found no misspellings it worked fine. However when it did find a miss spelled word I lost speech. After restarting it wanted to run the recovery. I tried the same thing with a older version of lsr that is installed and of course it didn't read as much as orca, but open office didn't hang. So I assume the issue is with open office and orca. Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0641-4, 10/13/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From opera at home.se Fri Oct 13 20:47:18 2006 From: opera at home.se (Gustaf) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:47:18 -0000 Subject: [Bug 65921] Re: gnome accessibility: Uncontrolable by keyboard References: <20061013124833.3013.52405.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061013204718.19052.64092.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> edgy -- gnome accessibility: Uncontrolable by keyboard https://launchpad.net/bugs/65921 From opera at home.se Fri Oct 13 20:47:02 2006 From: opera at home.se (Gustaf) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:47:02 -0000 Subject: [Bug 65920] Re: gnome accessibility: Messes up keyboard References: <20061013124701.19386.86635.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061013204702.3013.59627.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> edgy -- gnome accessibility: Messes up keyboard https://launchpad.net/bugs/65920 From opera at home.se Fri Oct 13 20:46:33 2006 From: opera at home.se (Gustaf) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:46:33 -0000 Subject: [Bug 65918] Re: gnome accessibility: Wrong name References: <20061013124508.3126.63812.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061013204633.19052.25355.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> edgy -- gnome accessibility: Wrong name https://launchpad.net/bugs/65918 From davidwcowell at cox.net Sun Oct 15 19:10:33 2006 From: davidwcowell at cox.net (DavidCowell) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:10:33 -0000 Subject: [Bug 66295] inaccurate documentation References: <20061015191033.19386.94653.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061015191033.19386.94653.malonedeb@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: Binary package hint: kttsd ktts documentation states that files may be read from kate: ««Highlight the text you want spoken and choose Tools->Speak Text on the main menu.»» There is no such option under «Tools» in kate 2.5.2 ** Affects: kdeaccessibility (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: Unconfirmed -- inaccurate documentation https://launchpad.net/bugs/66295 From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Oct 16 10:20:04 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:20:04 +0200 Subject: Edgy+1 Accessibility planning meeting Message-ID: <45335CD4.2010708@ubuntu.com> Hello! Time: Oct, 23rd, 19:00 UTC Place: #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda We recently had an Accessibility team meeting where we focused on getting the Edgy Eft release tested and polished. We also did a quick round of introductions, which was great! The past week members of the access team worked closely with core Ubuntu developers to iron out the last wrinkles in our accessibility stack, with good results. Edgy Eft is looking to be a highly accessible and usable release! But we can do more! At the next meeting we'll primarily discuss what new features we should add to Edgy+1 and beyond. I have started on a list of specifications here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs Please help flesh those out with use cases and ideas or add your own. These specs will be discussed in detail at the Mountain View development summit Nov. 5-10. We should also talk about how we should organise ourselves as a team. Planning and development is one aspect, but there is also testing, documentation writing, and user support in the forum and mailing lists. We already have some good participation in these areas, but we should discuss structuring it better and making it easier for new participants to help. One or two people to take charge of Accessibility documentation, mailing list support and forum support would be great IMO! We'll be joined by two of our Team/Community experts in Ubuntu for this meeting Daniel and Jono, so I look forward to some excellent advice on this :) We've changed the time of this meeting to make it easier for people in the Americas to participate (which unfortunately makes it a bad time in Australia, sorry). Henrik ps. Sorry for cross-posting, but I expect there may be readers of gnome-accessibility who might want to stop by and give some input on future developments. From s.bienlein at gmx.de Mon Oct 16 10:22:10 2006 From: s.bienlein at gmx.de (Simon Bienlein) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:22:10 +0200 Subject: BRLTTY ignores option for attributes table Message-ID: <001b01c6f10c$f111e060$c864a8c0@simonlaptop> Hi, I tested BRLTTY and Orca with the ubuntu cd of October 8. After the jingle, I pressed strg+alt+F1 and entered the following command: sudo brltty -a text.de -b ht -d ttyS0 The German attributes table was not loaded. Is this a bug or did I do something wrong? Best regards, Simon From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Oct 16 10:37:52 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:37:52 +0200 Subject: New development mailing list Message-ID: <45336100.40607@ubuntu.com> Hello! At the last meeting we decided to create a new mailing list focused on accessibility development. The existing list will continue as before but will be used for more general discussion and support questions. This should make the existing list less intimidating to new posters by moving some of the more technical discussions, while providing a place where we can have long development debates ;) You can sign up for the new list here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility-devel Bug mail will now be directed at the -devel list. Sign up and join the development talks for Edgy+1! Henrik From j-diggs at comcast.net Mon Oct 16 16:18:59 2006 From: j-diggs at comcast.net (Joanmarie Diggs) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:18:59 -0400 Subject: gnome-panel crash (was Re: [Fwd: Announcing Orca v2.17.1]) In-Reply-To: <1161000781.8040.64.camel@ubuntu> References: <1160842279.24193.15.camel@ubuntu> <35131.151.41.77.150.1160991008.squirrel@151.41.77.150> <1161000781.8040.64.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <1161015539.32084.15.camel@gumby> Hi Will, folks (CCing ubuntu-accessibility for good measure). > gnome-panel seems to crash a lot and quite spontaneously on Ubuntu, Phew! I was starting to think I had personally managed to muck something up really well. > more information about what you might be doing at the time of the > crash? I cannot reproduce it reliably, which is why I haven't filed anything on launchpad yet. However, two things *seem* to be the case: 1. Orca is running 2. I shove the mouse out of the way because something has gained focus and the mouse pointer (or a tooltip) is visually blocking what I want to look at. I am *nearly positive* that the crash does not occur unless I move the mouse, but moving the mouse doesn't reliably cause the crash. I'm *pretty sure* that it doesn't occur when I'm not using Orca, but since Orca is running nearly all of the time I cannot be certain.... Take care. Joanie From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Oct 17 10:13:54 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:13:54 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu accessibility (mini) summit Nov. 5-10 Message-ID: <4534ACE2.9050406@ubuntu.com> Invitation to participate: Ubuntu is organising it's 6-monthly development summit on Nov. 5-10 at the Google headquarters in Mountain View California. As part of that we are putting together a mini accessibility summit to discuss steps we can take in the next 6-12 months to take access on the Free desktop forward. In addition to the Ubuntu developers there will be some participants from the Sun, IBM and Google accessibility teams and many other community members. It's an open event so anyone with a desire to contribute to the accessibility effort is encouraged to participate, either in person or via IRC, or by contributing to the specifications on the wiki. Unfortunately the application deadline for Canonical-sponsored travel and accommodation has long since passed, but if you are able to make your own way there you are very welcome! The main page for the summit is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView It will be located at the Google complex at 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, California. (You'll see the event referred to as 'UDS-MTV' -- Ubuntu Development Summit - Mountain View) A partial list of guests is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Attendees (feel free to add yourself to it if you want to participate and drop me an email so I can coordinate topics). On this page I've started a list of possible topics for discussion in the accessibility field: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs Feel free to expand on any of those topics or to to add your own (but please do so using the spec format: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate) I should explain a bit about the structure of the event because it's rather different from most conferences. At the summit there will generally not be any talks to large audiences but mostly work in small groups. It's directly development-focused, as the name suggest, looking mainly an the next 6-month cycle, planning features and writing detailed specifications. After the meeting there is a 1-2 week period where the remaining specs are completed and approved and we decide which ones will go forward as targets for the next edition of Ubuntu. From then on it's all about feature implementation. I hope this summit can compliment the Boston Gnome accessibility summit held recently in that we take a few points from there and develop them in more detail, looking toward an implementation in the next cycle or two (of Gnome/Ubuntu). See this page for the agenda and minutes for that meeting: http://live.gnome.org/Boston2006/AccessibilitySummit The agenda for the Ubuntu meeting will be comprised of proposed specifications. The (very preliminary) list of topics to be discussed at UDS-MTV is shown here: https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv The schedule will change as we approach the summit, and new specifications are added. Once more specs are approved for the meeting the list will likely grow to about 150 entries. These will each be discussed in one or more hour-long sessions, of which 6-8 may run in parallel at any one time. The schedule for each day of the summit will be decided that same morning based on what topics need further discussion, who is involved and what their schedule is like. It's scheduled semi-automatically (using launchpad but with human tweaks). If you are attending and have particular interests you should (a) register an account in launchpad (an account used in the Ubuntu wiki will work), (b) subscribe yourself to the topics you are interested in and (c) let the organisers (claire.newman AT canonical.com in this case) know of any time constraints you have. It may seem confusing that times for the discussions are not settled before the meeting. It is done in this way to make the meeting more flexible and allow extra time for those meetings that need it. The meetings are also very informal, with typically 5-10 people sitting around a table. Some may just be listening in or working on their laptops :) Each topic will typically have one or more free discussion sessions followed by a drafting session where a detailed specification is written, all in the Ubuntu wiki. The drafting session may be held with just one or two people, possibly including someone off-site just writing on the wiki. Participants will of course gather outside of these meeting times to discuss topics that interest them as at any conference, and many developers simply spend most of the time hacking, coding up prototypes of new features and working together. To prepare for the physical meeting we will hold one or more virtual ones as needed, starting with an IRC meeting next Monday: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/593 Please join us if you want to contribute to the initial planning of the Ubuntu Edgy+1 accessibility features. Henrik Nilsen Omma Ubuntu Accessibility Coordinator From Peter.Korn at Sun.COM Tue Oct 17 18:01:01 2006 From: Peter.Korn at Sun.COM (Peter Korn) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:01:01 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu accessibility (mini) summit Nov. 5-10 In-Reply-To: <4534ACE2.9050406@ubuntu.com> References: <4534ACE2.9050406@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <45351A5D.6010603@sun.com> Hi Henrik, Having just been at the GNOME Summit (and GNOME Accessibility Summit Day) last week, I very much appreciate the flexibility of being able to pull together a discussion any day of the conference, as ideas gel (and as running into others spark ideas). We held a couple of very useful accessibility conversations because of that. That said, it was tremendously useful to have a formal day focused on accessibility. Doing that ensured that all interested stakeholders were in attendance - and we got an awful lot done that way (and have had similar success doing this with a KDE accessibility within the larger aKademy conferences). Also, by advertising it in advance, other groups who had some interest in accessibility as well as their primary focus knew when they could met with all of the accessibility folks and where to find them. Finally, for those who care about accessibility but who are otherwise not deeply involved in Ubuntu, having a focused day makes it easier to "get away from our day jobs" to participate in the discussions. So, I would like to propose that we designate one day during the Ubuntu summit as an accessibility focus day. For purely selfish reasons, I'd like to suggest that day be Monday November 6th (since I'll be on a plane on the 7th). This isn't to prevent accessibility discussions from happening other days, but to encourage that many of them happen that day. Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > Invitation to participate: > > Ubuntu is organising it's 6-monthly development summit on Nov. 5-10 at > the Google headquarters in Mountain View California. As part of that we > are putting together a mini accessibility summit to discuss steps we can > take in the next 6-12 months to take access on the Free desktop forward. > > In addition to the Ubuntu developers there will be some participants > from the Sun, IBM and Google accessibility teams and many other > community members. It's an open event so anyone with a desire to > contribute to the accessibility effort is encouraged to participate, > either in person or via IRC, or by contributing to the specifications on > the wiki. Unfortunately the application deadline for Canonical-sponsored > travel and accommodation has long since passed, but if you are able to > make your own way there you are very welcome! > > The main page for the summit is here: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView It will be > located at the Google complex at 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain > View, California. (You'll see the event referred to as 'UDS-MTV' -- > Ubuntu Development Summit - Mountain View) > > A partial list of guests is here: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Attendees > (feel free to add yourself to it if you want to participate and drop me > an email so I can coordinate topics). > > On this page I've started a list of possible topics for discussion in > the accessibility field: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs > Feel free to expand on any of those topics or to to add your own (but > please do so using the spec format: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate) > > I should explain a bit about the structure of the event because it's > rather different from most conferences. At the summit there will > generally not be any talks to large audiences but mostly work in small > groups. It's directly development-focused, as the name suggest, looking > mainly an the next 6-month cycle, planning features and writing detailed > specifications. After the meeting there is a 1-2 week period where the > remaining specs are completed and approved and we decide which ones will > go forward as targets for the next edition of Ubuntu. From then on it's > all about feature implementation. > > I hope this summit can compliment the Boston Gnome accessibility summit > held recently in that we take a few points from there and develop them > in more detail, looking toward an implementation in the next cycle or > two (of Gnome/Ubuntu). See this page for the agenda and minutes for that > meeting: http://live.gnome.org/Boston2006/AccessibilitySummit > > The agenda for the Ubuntu meeting will be comprised of proposed > specifications. The (very preliminary) list of topics to be discussed at > UDS-MTV is shown here: https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv > The schedule will change as we approach the summit, and new > specifications are added. Once more specs are approved for the meeting > the list will likely grow to about 150 entries. These will each be > discussed in one or more hour-long sessions, of which 6-8 may run in > parallel at any one time. > > The schedule for each day of the summit will be decided that same > morning based on what topics need further discussion, who is involved > and what their schedule is like. It's scheduled semi-automatically > (using launchpad but with human tweaks). If you are attending and have > particular interests you should (a) register an account in launchpad (an > account used in the Ubuntu wiki will work), (b) subscribe yourself to > the topics you are interested in and (c) let the organisers > (claire.newman AT canonical.com in this case) know of any time > constraints you have. > > It may seem confusing that times for the discussions are not settled > before the meeting. It is done in this way to make the meeting more > flexible and allow extra time for those meetings that need it. The > meetings are also very informal, with typically 5-10 people sitting > around a table. Some may just be listening in or working on their laptops :) > > Each topic will typically have one or more free discussion sessions > followed by a drafting session where a detailed specification is > written, all in the Ubuntu wiki. The drafting session may be held with > just one or two people, possibly including someone off-site just writing > on the wiki. > > Participants will of course gather outside of these meeting times to > discuss topics that interest them as at any conference, and many > developers simply spend most of the time hacking, coding up prototypes > of new features and working together. > > To prepare for the physical meeting we will hold one or more virtual > ones as needed, starting with an IRC meeting next Monday: > http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/593 Please join us if you want to > contribute to the initial planning of the Ubuntu Edgy+1 accessibility > features. > > > Henrik Nilsen Omma > Ubuntu Accessibility Coordinator > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list > gnome-accessibility-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list > From teemu.pasanen at ksshp.fi Wed Oct 18 06:17:22 2006 From: teemu.pasanen at ksshp.fi (Pasanen Teemu) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:17:22 +0300 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <5CFAED3E25F5E94E84199A01B4517E1701EFA9C9@KSSMAIL2.shp.ks> Hi there, my name is Teemu Pasanen and I am from Finland. I am Medical Engineer with a soul. Currently I am working at KSSP (hospital society) as technical advisor for small group, that pretty much tryes to solve different kind of problems in communication and in everyday life for handicap people. I learned about Accessibility Team when I first learned about Ubuntu, I became a linux user few days ago. What gave a impact to search the team and will to help anyway I can, was a simple program I stumbled upon Ubuntus installation... On screen keyboard as a default program in Linux. Needless to say that usually it's the first program we need to apply for our clients. Skills that I can offer to this society are in technical documenting, testing and general expertice/knowledge on mental and physical disorders, example CP and MS. Also I can get hold on different types of therapists and information if needed. My education includes basic techical knowledge with some medical knowledge (statistic, dynamic, physiology, anatomy, ergonomy). I am not a much of a programmer nor yet know much about Linux (still learning). So here I am, not much but still... I do what I can and help Accessibility Team and via that the people who really needs the services. Regards Teemu Pasanen, B.Sc Medical Engineering KSSHP/Tikoteekki email. teemu.pasanen at ksshp.fi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 18 10:42:52 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:42:52 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu accessibility (mini) summit Nov. 5-10 In-Reply-To: <45351A5D.6010603@sun.com> References: <4534ACE2.9050406@ubuntu.com> <45351A5D.6010603@sun.com> Message-ID: <4536052C.1010509@ubuntu.com> Peter Korn wrote: > > > So, I would like to propose that we designate one day during the > Ubuntu summit as an accessibility focus day. For purely selfish > reasons, I'd like to suggest that day be Monday November 6th (since > I'll be on a plane on the 7th). This isn't to prevent accessibility > discussions from happening other days, but to encourage that many of > them happen that day. > If there is general agreement on this we can certainly organise something to this effect within the framework of the overall event. And Monday seems like a good day. If we can work out amongst ourselves what topics we would like to cover on that day and who will be participating we can feed this into the scheduler and get a day packed with accessibility topics. I'm sure several of these topics will need multiple sessions though, so it will be natural to continue the detailed implementation sessions later in the week. I think it's important that we work within the schedule of UDS as much as possible so that other developers can join in. Most of those reading this will already know the value of accessibility, while it may be new to other UDS participants. The more of them we can include in talks the better. I'm hoping that a lot of the wider picture work was done at the Boston summit and that we can try to bring some of those conclusions to the wider development community at this event, in small sessions focused on concrete implementation plans. To help get ourselves organised, I've made a table of participants here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/UDS-MTV . Please add details about yourself if you are participating, either on-site or remotely. Henrik From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 18 13:48:49 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:48:49 +0200 Subject: BRLTTY ignores option for attributes table In-Reply-To: <001b01c6f10c$f111e060$c864a8c0@simonlaptop> References: <001b01c6f10c$f111e060$c864a8c0@simonlaptop> Message-ID: <453630C1.2080300@ubuntu.com> Simon Bienlein wrote: > Hi, > > > > I tested BRLTTY and Orca with the ubuntu cd of October 8. After the > jingle, I pressed strg+alt+F1 and entered the following command: > > sudo brltty -a text.de -b ht -d ttyS0 > > > > The German attributes table was not loaded. Is this a bug or did I do > something wrong? > I'm not very familiar with brltty, but it seems like -a wants the full path to the attributes table. The default path mentioned in /etc/brltty.conf is used (the /etc/brltty/) in ubuntu. Perhaps the filename needs to be text.de.tbl ? Henrik From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Wed Oct 18 14:11:33 2006 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:11:33 +0200 Subject: BRLTTY ignores option for attributes table In-Reply-To: <453630C1.2080300@ubuntu.com> References: <001b01c6f10c$f111e060$c864a8c0@simonlaptop> <453630C1.2080300@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20061018141133.GL3421@implementation.labri.fr> Hi, Henrik Nilsen Omma, le Wed 18 Oct 2006 15:48:49 +0200, a écrit : > Simon Bienlein wrote: > > I tested BRLTTY and Orca with the ubuntu cd of October 8. After the > > jingle, I pressed strg+alt+F1 and entered the following command: > > > > sudo brltty -a text.de -b ht -d ttyS0 > > > > > > > > The German attributes table was not loaded. Is this a bug or did I do > > something wrong? > > I'm not very familiar with brltty, but it seems like -a wants the full > path to the attributes table. Simon, are you sure you're talking about the attribute table (-a), and not about the text table (-t)? What I guess you want is brltty -t de -a attributes.tbl Samuel From gk4 at austin.ibm.com Wed Oct 18 17:22:31 2006 From: gk4 at austin.ibm.com (George Kraft) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:22:31 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu accessibility (mini) summit Nov. 5-10 In-Reply-To: <4536052C.1010509@ubuntu.com> References: <4534ACE2.9050406@ubuntu.com> <45351A5D.6010603@sun.com> <4536052C.1010509@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1161192151.6765.101.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> On Wed, 2006-10-18 at 12:42 +0200, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > If there is general agreement on this we can certainly organise > something to this effect within the framework of the overall event. > And Monday seems like a good day. > > If we can work out amongst ourselves what topics we would like to > cover on that day and who will be participating we can feed this into > the scheduler and get a day packed with accessibility topics. I'm sure > several of these topics will need multiple sessions though, so it will > be natural to continue the detailed implementation sessions later in > the week. If you can, try to push as much as you can into the beginning of the week. I'll attend the 6th and 7th. -- George (gk4) From William.Walker at Sun.COM Wed Oct 18 18:38:33 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:38:33 -0400 Subject: Orca Tracking Issues, Other Qs About It In-Reply-To: <001601c6eb61$ab5e8010$7901a8c0@centrino> References: <001601c6eb61$ab5e8010$7901a8c0@centrino> Message-ID: <1161196713.17070.163.camel@ubuntu> Hi: Thanks for your interest in Orca. > Some Orca issues. I'm using the latest binary available via apt-get in > Dapper. Thanks for helping test Orca and for bringing issues to our attention. It would probably be best if you brought these discussions to the orca-list at gnome.org list: http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list In addition, if you could keep it to one problem per e-mail, it would help everyone track the problems better. Multiple unrelated problems in the same e-mail message with a generic subject makes it really difficult to track problems. As a hint: really long messages containing lots of different questions tend to sit in my inbox for a long time since I know they are going to take a lot of time to respond to. Short messages with specific points and specific subjects tend to have the quickest turnaround. > I've found that in some very basic apps tracking fails rather > miserably. I wonder if these are known issues and or specific to my machine > or if there's anything I can do. I've switched my theme to inverse high > contrast 800x600, which is the clearest of the bunch for me, though far from > what I'd like. When you say "tracking", are you referring to speech, magnification, braille? In addition, you need to be very specific about the app(s) you are trying to use. Some of them are not accessible. > So here are the tracking issues: > in Gconf, when you navigate a list of values for a key, such as the list of > visible columns for NAutilus, Orca fails to track the selection at all. I'm very puzzled. Can you give more specific example(s) (in a new thread on orca-list at gnome.org) of what you're doing and what's not working? These may seem like the same problem, but they're probably different. > The > same thing, in my experience, with the Gnome panel if you move around the > icon view containing all the panels you can add. Orca seems to speak nothing > and the flat review keys, Again, I'm not really sure about what you're doing here. I think you're talking about the "Add to Panel" dialog you get when you select "Add to Panel..." from the gnome-panel? If so, there may be a bug in the accessibility implementation of the icon view being presented by this dialog and we should enter a bug against gnome-panel. Can you provide specific steps to reproduce the problem (in a new thread on orca-list at gnome.org)? > which should be changeable for laptops, by the > way, We definitely agree that customization is needed. This is being worked on: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=354970 > The third app where I'm having similar issues is a file manager that was > recommended to me namely Rox Filer. Tracking does work in the menus and > dialogs but nothing is tracked when you select an icon in the main window. > That prevents me ffrom using the app in the first place. I don't like > Nautilus as it is barely as configurable as WIndows Explorer, which is not > much, period. I've not seen the problem you are describing with Nautilus. I need more detail with what you are doing and the problems you are seeing. In addition, you might try using the list view in Nautilus. You can enable this by bringing up the Edit->Preferences dialog and selecting "List View" in the "View new folders using:" combo box. I'm not familiar with Rox Filer. Where did you obtain it and how do you run it? > If even garden variety Gnome apps have this bad issues, I wonder how usable > the average gnome app would be. At the moment I'm rather sceptical about it. I realize you are probably frustrated with Orca right now. We want to help. I think we can work through these things, but we definitely need more specific detail about problems that you are running into. Without this, both of us will be frustrated and we'll have trouble getting anywhere. ;-) > How do GTK1 apps like XMMS look to Orca? I'm a huge Winamp fan, as far as > exotic formats go, so would really need access to this app as it is the > closest Winamp equivalent you can get. Something which can use XMMS plugs > would also do. I don't think the GTK1 toolkit supports the accessibility infrastructure (AT-SPI), so any assistive technology relying on the AT-SPI will not be able to access it. There may be an alternative to XMMS, though. I use my computer about 11hrs day for work only and get relatively little joy out of it, so I'm the wrong person to ask about for entertainment and other diversions on the machine. ;-) Other folks on the orca-list may be able to point you to more accessible applications, though. > Lastly, I have noticed that my issue about gnome-panel crashing when trying > to run orca in the run box is not specific to that app. When Gnopernicus > starts the first time on logging in it works fine. IF I close it down and > try rerrunning it in the run box, it crashes the gnoem panel similarly to > how running Orca does. Too bad. Yeah - something is very odd with gnome-panel on Ubuntu. It seems to be quite depressed and commits suicide frequently and without warning. I think the Ubuntu guys are taking it to therapy, though: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-accessibility/2006-October/001260.html > Which makes me wonder two things. How do you > change which app GNome uses as the screen reader? Orca is the default screen reader for GNOME. > I'd like to have Orca > start up when the screen reader box is checked. It should do so as of GNOME 2.16 (and Ubuntu Edgy). Is this not happening for you? > And also, step by step > instructions on how to update or downgrade the gnome panel component, to > resolve these issues, would be appreciated. I think keeping an eye on the Ubuntu updates would be the thing to do. Henrik, if you're keeping an eye on this thread - are you aware of the gnome-panel crashing issue on Ubuntu. If so, do you have any information on it? Hope this helps, Will From William.Walker at Sun.COM Wed Oct 18 19:03:01 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:03:01 -0400 Subject: getting orca to speak idems in a menu. In-Reply-To: <0J6R002ID0SVIUN9@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6R002ID0SVIUN9@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <1161198181.11282.1.camel@ubuntu> Hi Mike: For Orca v2.17.1, Rich added this as part of the "Where am I" functionality you get with KP_Enter. Hope this helps! Will On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 23:36 -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, I notice when I am in the desktop or in the file system > orca says how many items are in a directory. > However when I press alt f1 and read the menus only the name is spoken. > Is there a way to get orca to also tell how many items are in these menus like gnopernicus did. > Mike. > From henrik at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 18 20:29:55 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:29:55 +0200 Subject: Installing Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <9042E3CA-0C47-4818-A2A1-1EAC63BF3A50@thewordnerd.info> References: <9042E3CA-0C47-4818-A2A1-1EAC63BF3A50@thewordnerd.info> Message-ID: <45368EC3.7060606@ubuntu.com> Nolan Darilek wrote: > Hello, seems this list gets quite a few Ubuntu questions. Hopefully > it's OK if I toss out one more. Hopefully it's quick with a simple > solution. :) > You could also try the ubuntu list at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility It's read by many of the same people, but at least there all ubuntu questions are on-topic. > I decided to wipe my older Ubuntu install and try installing from the > live CD. For some reason, GDM seems to start but I'm not getting the > usual login sound, and I can see enough to note that the screen has > various shades of blue, which doesn't jive with my experiences from > before. :) > Hm, blue? Are you sure it's not Xubuntu? :) Is this the Live CD booting up or after install? > I've burned and booted the live CD, gotten Orca running and played > with a few applications. Things seem to work. Clicking the > installation icon on the desktop seems to kill speech, however. I see > that another window has opened, but it doesn't speak and I can't seem > to get Orca to offer any indications of focus change. Sorta reminds > me of the behavior when I'd run some graphical application requiring > sudo. > That is precisely because the installer runs as sudo. Unfortunately we won't get this to Just Work for this release, but the work-around is fairly simple: run both Orca and the installer as root: * Open a terminal and Enter 'sudo su' * Kill the running version of orca * Enter 'orca &' in the root terminal * Enter 'ubiquity' to launch the installer * When installation is complete you will be prompted to reboot > Any idea as to what might be happening? I've looked at the forum, but > all indications seem to point to simply clicking "install." This is > with a current live CD as of late last night/early this morning. I've > tried both running orca manually, and via the "press F5, then 3" > method, thinking that perhaps this performed additional configuration > steps which I'd missed. > You might even need to get a more recent version because a few days ago we had a fix in the installer that would launch Orca as root before starting itself, but the results were messy, so we decided that documenting a workaround would be better. -- Actually your existing CD should work as well if you kill the running version of Orca just before launching the installer. Henrik From William.Walker at Sun.COM Wed Oct 18 21:25:02 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:25:02 -0400 Subject: seeing the help system with orca. In-Reply-To: <0J6U00FZ5GTK32OE@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J6U00FZ5GTK32OE@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <1161206702.11282.18.camel@ubuntu> Hi Mike: I just played around with this a little bit. Yelp is an odd little application, and I notice that it *is* accessible via orca if you start orca after yelp starts. But, orca doesn't do a good job with it if orca is started before yelp starts. Since the latter is the normal operating mode of a user, we definitely need to fix this. I've logged a bug here: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363242 Thanks! Will On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 20:15 -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > Sorry about that I hit the wrong key in the subject line before. > Does the help system work with orca. > I press f1 and get some speech. > But I don't get to any topics. > Other times in a ap I do get a listing with numbers, but nothing I try seems to open and read them. > If anyone has done this, I would appreciate the commands to make it work. > Thanks Mike. > X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-6, 10/08/2006), Outbound message > X-Antivirus-Status: Clean > > From William.Walker at Sun.COM Wed Oct 18 22:32:52 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:32:52 -0400 Subject: seeing the help system with orca. In-Reply-To: <1161206702.11282.18.camel@ubuntu> References: <0J6U00FZ5GTK32OE@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> <1161206702.11282.18.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <1161210772.28891.4.camel@ubuntu> FYI, I just checked in a fix to handle yelp's sudden personality change: the main cause was that yelp was changing its name and id on us. BTW, to "wake" yelp up until this fix is available, you should be able to Alt+Tab away from the help window and then Alt+Tab back to it. When you do this, Orca should be able to access yelp a little better. Will On Wed, 2006-10-18 at 17:25 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > Hi Mike: > > I just played around with this a little bit. Yelp is an odd little > application, and I notice that it *is* accessible via orca if you start > orca after yelp starts. But, orca doesn't do a good job with it if orca > is started before yelp starts. Since the latter is the normal operating > mode of a user, we definitely need to fix this. I've logged a bug here: > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363242 > > Thanks! > > Will > > On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 20:15 -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > > Sorry about that I hit the wrong key in the subject line before. > > Does the help system work with orca. > > I press f1 and get some speech. > > But I don't get to any topics. > > Other times in a ap I do get a listing with numbers, but nothing I try seems to open and read them. > > If anyone has done this, I would appreciate the commands to make it work. > > Thanks Mike. > > X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0640-6, 10/08/2006), Outbound message > > X-Antivirus-Status: Clean > > > > From s.bienlein at gmx.de Thu Oct 19 12:24:36 2006 From: s.bienlein at gmx.de (Simon Bienlein) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:24:36 +0200 Subject: BRLTTY ignores option for attributes table References: <001b01c6f10c$f111e060$c864a8c0@simonlaptop> <453630C1.2080300@ubuntu.com> <20061018141133.GL3421@implementation.labri.fr> Message-ID: <002501c6f379$8b50d280$c864a8c0@simonlaptop> Hi Samuel, Yes, you are right of course. I switched the options. The option -t was not shown to me when I read the manpage via SSH under windows. At least not the first line - I had to maximize the window. At my short test, the indication of option -t was enough. Simon From nowindows at terrencevak.net Thu Oct 19 20:34:37 2006 From: nowindows at terrencevak.net (nowindows at terrencevak.net) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:34:37 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Installing Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <45368EC3.7060606@ubuntu.com> References: <9042E3CA-0C47-4818-A2A1-1EAC63BF3A50@thewordnerd.info> <45368EC3.7060606@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: Thanks!! I was loking for that but it didn't seem to be coming up with google. Terrence From terrence at terrencevak.net Thu Oct 19 21:38:20 2006 From: terrence at terrencevak.net (terrence at terrencevak.net) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:38:20 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Accessibility in Xubuntu? Message-ID: HEllo, all. I've got Xubuntu installed on an eMachine computer with 160 MB of ram and a 433 mhz processor. My question is, how do I get accessibility going on it? I'd tried regular Ubuntu, but it seemed sluggish, and the latest version hardly did anything. So someone suggested xubuntu. But it doesn't seem to have any accessibility with it. Is there any accessibility for xubuntu? Thanks, Terrence -- When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace. A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love. ___________________________________________________________________________ AIM: terrencevane; Yahoo: terrencevak; MSN: ganvira at hotmail.com; icq: 467073979; LJ: terrencevane From jbsn at aapt.net.au Fri Oct 20 04:24:47 2006 From: jbsn at aapt.net.au (Jan and Bertil Smark Nilsson) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:24:47 +1000 (EST) Subject: Problems booting Edgy Message-ID: Greetings, When I boot my latest Version of Edgy, press F5 and then 3, I hear nothing. This could be due to the fact that I've two sound cards in my HP Pavillion, the original Riptide, which used not to work in Linux 2.6 at all, and an SB Live, which I added for that particular reason. The Riptide still doesn't work even though it's supposed to and gives every indication of doing so. However, that seems to be the preferred sound card by the loader. When I run a player and choose the SB Live as sound device, it works well. However, something is wrong. Orca hasn't loaded and When I run dmesg, I get a number of lines saying hdc command error. I've no problems booting Knoppix or GRML. Anybody any ideas? Regards, Bertil Smark Nilsson From jani.monoses at gmail.com Fri Oct 20 07:22:59 2006 From: jani.monoses at gmail.com (Jani Monoses) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:22:59 +0300 Subject: Accessibility in Xubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: terrence at terrencevak.net wrote: > HEllo, all. I've got Xubuntu installed on an eMachine computer > with 160 MB of ram and a 433 mhz processor. My question is, how do I get > accessibility going on it? I'd tried regular Ubuntu, but it seemed > sluggish, and the latest version hardly did anything. So someone > suggested xubuntu. But it doesn't seem to have any accessibility with it. > Is there any accessibility for xubuntu? There is a patch to add a11y support to the xubuntu edgy liveCD but which did not make it for the release candidate. I hope it can make the release though, it is very non-intrusive. The sticky/mouse keys and onboard work well in Xfce but orca's magnifier and speech synthesis is not as supported as by gnome applications. Which a11y features do you need? Jani From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 20 09:34:49 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:34:49 +0200 Subject: Problems booting Edgy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45389839.2050909@ubuntu.com> Jan and Bertil Smark Nilsson wrote: > Greetings, > > When I boot my latest Version of Edgy, press F5 and then 3, I hear > nothing. Just to be clear: you are pressing F5, 3, Enter, Enter, and you hear the CD drive spin up to boot right? There are unfortunately no sounds on the F5 menu. If you don't hear any sound on startup you likely have a sound card problem. In that case you may want to seek help on the general ubuntu-user mailing list or the forums. Have you tried the same CD on a different computer? Henrik From jbsn at aapt.net.au Sun Oct 22 00:43:38 2006 From: jbsn at aapt.net.au (Jan and Bertil Smark Nilsson) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:43:38 +1000 (EST) Subject: Problems booting Edgy In-Reply-To: <45389839.2050909@ubuntu.com> References: <45389839.2050909@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: Hello, On Fri, 20 Oct 2006, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Jan and Bertil Smark Nilsson wrote: >> Greetings, >> >> When I boot my latest Version of Edgy, press F5 and then 3, I hear >> nothing. > Just to be clear: you are pressing F5, 3, Enter, Enter, and you hear the > CD drive spin up to boot right? There are unfortunately no sounds on the > F5 menu. Yes. I've had assistance from my sighted wife, just to make sure. > If you don't hear any sound on startup you likely have a sound card > problem. In that case you may want to seek help on the general > ubuntu-user mailing list or the forums. Have you tried the same CD on a > different computer? I do have a soundcard problem. I've both a Riptide card and an SB Live card in the computer. The Riptide card doesn't workwith my Etch distribution, so I assume that it would be the same with Ubuntu. However, Ubuntu goes for the Riptide card. I'd be able to get around that by specifying another device later on. After booting I end up with a screen that says "examples" and "install". If I press alt-f1 or alt-f2 nothing happens. I'm able to go a text terminal and run brltty. I can then ascertain that Orca hasn.t loaded by doing ps -C orca. I don't have another suitable computer, so I haven't tried that yet. However, this is not the first Ubuntu live CD that won't run. I've no problems with Knoppix or grml. Regards, Bertil From kb8aey at verizon.net Mon Oct 23 01:20:47 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:20:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: lsr new version` Message-ID: <0J7K009TKEEMUVW0@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, will the new version of lsr be available soon threw apt-get. I would like to give it a try. Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0643-0, 10/22/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From themuso at themuso.com Mon Oct 23 02:05:13 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:05:13 +1000 Subject: lsr new version` In-Reply-To: <0J7K009TKEEMUVW0@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J7K009TKEEMUVW0@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20061023020513.GA17188@themuso.com> On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:20:47AM EST, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, will the new version of lsr be available soon threw apt-get. > I would like to give it a try. It won't be in the official Ubuntu repositories until the next version of Ubuntu gets under way, so not for a month or so. However, I do intend to make some unofficial packages available of newer software like Orca and LSR once edgy is released. If you can wait a week or so, you will be able to give LSR a try. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com Jabber: themuso at jabber.org.au -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kb8aey at verizon.net Mon Oct 23 18:49:18 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:49:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: new version of ubuntu Message-ID: <0J7L007S3QY6YSW4@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, from what I have red, edgy is to be released at the end of this week. What I would like to know is how long after a release does the first daily live CD of the next version come out. Also will the installer on the desktop work with orca in the next version when it is in it's early stages. I found edgy to be a big step forward in accessibility, and am sure the next version will be even better. Mike. From francesco.fumanti at gmx.net Wed Oct 25 12:15:54 2006 From: francesco.fumanti at gmx.net (Francesco Fumanti) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:15:54 +0200 Subject: harmonizing on-screen keyboard progress Message-ID: Hello David, I assume you are talking about onboard.You can find the current specs about onboard here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/SOK However, any idea is welcome and if you post in this list or in the accessibility forum, the onboard team will take notice. Here is the accessibility forum: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=145 By the way, here is the start-thread of onboard (formerly known as sok) in the accessibility forum: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=192758 But you are free to start new threads with your ideas and concerns. Have a nice day. frafu >Henrik, All, > >Hi. I'm just wondering if it might be helpful for everyone involved or >interested in free/open-source on-screen keyboard (or alternative input >software) development to get together in one place or on one phone call >to educate each other on our plans and ideas for best serving our users. > >Thoughts? > >cheers, >David From William.Walker at Sun.COM Wed Oct 25 16:41:09 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:41:09 -0400 Subject: Orca not stopping talking In-Reply-To: <1161792846.5842.9.camel@ubuntu> References: <17726.50078.338913.550269@zart.inside.urnet.com.au> <20061025022504.GA23410@taylor.homelinux.net> <17726.52723.678549.846932@zart.inside.urnet.com.au> <1161786428.11855.36.camel@ubuntu> <1161792846.5842.9.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <1161794469.5842.17.camel@ubuntu> One more data point: the problem doesn't seem to exist on Solaris, so I'm guessing this might be specific to Ubuntu. :-( I'm CC'ing the Ubuntu Accessibility List to see if anyone there might have an idea. Furthermore, in experimenting with this, we noticed that my laptop (a Toshiba Tecra where I need to chord Fn+F11 to turn NumLock on and off) exhibits the dreaded "you must monkey with AccessX settings to bring events back to life even if you reboot the machine" whereas a system with a regular keyboard (more specifically, a Ubuntu system with a Sun keyboard) will recover just fine if you turn off NumLock. Will On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 12:14 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > Well...to add more to this...restarting the X Server and even rebooting > didn't solve the problem. I needed to go into the Keyboard Preferences > dialog and muck around with AccessX settings - I enabled StickyKeys and > then disabled it and things seemed to come back to life. Very very odd. > > We're looking at this on Solaris to see if the problem exists there, > too. If it doesn't, I think this might be a Ubuntu problem, but I have > no idea how or what is making this happen. > > Will > > On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 10:27 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > > Very odd. I just checked with debugging enabled in Orca and it seems as > > though Orca no longer get keyboard events from the AT-SPI once you've > > mucked with the NumLock key. As a result, Orca won't interrupt speech > > on a key press since it's not getting any key presses. > > > > I can also verify this with the src/tools/record_keystrokes.py module in > > the orca sources, and it looks like NumLock is toxic for me - once I've > > enabled it, I'm hosed and need to restart the X server. > > > > Will > > > > On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 12:37 +1000, Bart Bunting wrote: > > > Lorenzo, > > > > > > Thanks for the tip, it seems that that was my problem! > > > > > > Does anyone know why this is so? Is it intended behaviour or a bug or > > > sideefect? > > > > > > Wow Orca is much more useful when you can stop speech! > > > > > > Bart > > > > > > > > > Lorenzo Taylor writes: > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > > > It seems that if the numlock is on Orca will not interrupt. I'm not > > > > sure why this is or if this is even your problem, but the last time this > > > > happened to me I found out my numlock was on. If in fact it is on and > > > > you turn it off the problem should go away. > > > > > > > > HTH, > > > > Lorenzo > > > > - -- > > > > I've always found anomalies to be very relaxing. It's a curse. > > > > - --Jadzia Dax: Star Trek Deep Space Nine (The Assignment) > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) > > > > > > > > iD8DBQFFPssAG9IpekrhBfIRApuLAKDH8m9t3Cnxv4oqduNwT17UdjUxvgCgqiNL > > > > T2vVo3FFlHik+LdFoEnobHY= > > > > =9tm3 > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Orca-list mailing list > > > > Orca-list at gnome.org > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Orca-list mailing list > > > Orca-list at gnome.org > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > > _______________________________________________ > Orca-list mailing list > Orca-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list From themuso at themuso.com Thu Oct 26 11:19:52 2006 From: themuso at themuso.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:19:52 +1000 Subject: Thanks to all. Message-ID: <20061026111952.GA10249@themuso.com> Hi all On behalf of the Accessibility Team, I would like to thank everybody who has helped in any way during this Ubuntu release cycle. This is the most accessible release of any Linux distribution to date, and things can only get better from here! I have plans on making an audio tutorial over the coming months for Ubuntu edgy. If anybody has any ideas as to what they would like to hear about in the tutorial, please let me know, and I will do what I can to include the relevant information. Happy Edgy release, and enjoy! -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso at themuso.com Jabber: themuso at jabber.org.au -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kb8aey at verizon.net Thu Oct 26 13:39:51 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:39:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: downloading the latest version Message-ID: <0J7Q000QTWMEQYW2@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, is there a site I can get the latest image of the CD from with out using a torant. The ones I found show the CD from yesterday. Thanks Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0643-4, 10/26/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean From j_greenhouse at hotmail.com Thu Oct 26 13:58:07 2006 From: j_greenhouse at hotmail.com (Jochen boutens) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:58:07 +0000 Subject: Enhance spell checking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm glad to see spellchecking is implemented in more and more programs un the standard desktop. [quote]According to the latest dyslexia research from the National Institutes of Health, dyslexia affects 20 percent of Americans (and about the same percentage of people in other countries.) (source http://www.bartonreading.com/dys.html )[quote] Problem: Spellchecking only works for the default language in programs like Gaim, Xchat, Firefox etc. But most people use multiple languages to communicate. For instance, many people on this list do not have English as there first language, but they do like spell checking in English. There should be a standard way in applications to switch between languages for spellchecking. Perhaps it could even be possible to auto detect what language the user is typing in, and use the proper language checks. Spellchecking should be enabled where possible and should support all the languages selected in language support. After suggesting this on the wiki, we discussed it on the last IRC meeting, it was well received. Perhaps we could write a general spec about it and someone is willing to discuss it on UDS Mountain View. Should this be proposed on the dev-mailing list? _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail From William.Walker at Sun.COM Thu Oct 26 14:13:29 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:13:29 -0400 Subject: [u-a-dev] Thanks to all. In-Reply-To: <20061026111952.GA10249@themuso.com> References: <20061026111952.GA10249@themuso.com> Message-ID: <1161872009.11788.7.camel@ubuntu> Of course you Ubuntu guys deserve many thanks for taking accessibility seriously. Thanks for your dedication and support! Will On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 21:19 +1000, Luke Yelavich wrote: > Hi all > On behalf of the Accessibility Team, I would like to thank everybody who > has helped in any way during this Ubuntu release cycle. This is the most > accessible release of any Linux distribution to date, and things can > only get better from here! > > I have plans on making an audio tutorial over the coming months for > Ubuntu edgy. If anybody has any ideas as to what they would like to hear > about in the tutorial, please let me know, and I will do what I can to > include the relevant information. > > Happy Edgy release, and enjoy! From kb8aey at verizon.net Thu Oct 26 14:35:38 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:35:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: getting the latest cd. Message-ID: <0J7Q006CDZ7D0HCE@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, maybe I asked to soon. Since the release was today, would the CD from yesterday be considered the latest. I noticed the torent files are with todays date, but the iso files show yesterdays date. Mike. From henrik at ubuntu.com Thu Oct 26 15:56:18 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:56:18 +0200 Subject: getting the latest cd. In-Reply-To: <0J7Q006CDZ7D0HCE@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J7Q006CDZ7D0HCE@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <4540DAA2.4070409@ubuntu.com> mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, maybe I asked to soon. > Since the release was today, > would the CD from yesterday be considered the latest. > I noticed the torent files are with todays date, > but the iso files show yesterdays date. > Both should be fine. They are likely identical. The latest can be found here: http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/6.10/ Henrik From terrence at terrencevak.net Fri Oct 27 06:11:35 2006 From: terrence at terrencevak.net (terrence at terrencevak.net) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 22:11:35 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Need advice/Question on Current Release Message-ID: Hey there, all, I tried the newest release, and have had little/no success with it. The install script doesn't run when I click on it and my computer freezes up. Also, running orca from console 1 told me it couldn't find the display or something like tat, and/or told me that watchdog detected something bad, and running it from within Gnome didn't produce *anything*. Someone over on the gnome-accessibility list, I think it was, suggested that some of my issues stemmed from the fact that I only had a PC with 433 mhz and 160 MB of ram, and had suggested I try Xubuntu. However, I haven't seemed to have much luck getting accessibility going on that. So my questions are these: (1) *Can* I get Ubuntu up and running on my system even if it does only have 160 MB of ram? (2) If Xubuntu would be a solution for an old PC like this one, how would I get it accessible? and (3) What *is* the best option for such a PC as I've described? I've been using Oralux as my main distro, but there's things that Oralux can't do that I'd need X to accomplish. Thanks, Terrence -- When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace. A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love. ___________________________________________________________________________ AIM: terrencevane; Yahoo: terrencevak; MSN: ganvira at hotmail.com; icq: 467073979; LJ: terrencevane From henrik at ubuntu.com Fri Oct 27 12:27:33 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:27:33 +0200 Subject: Enhance spell checking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4541FB35.6000006@ubuntu.com> Jochen boutens wrote: > > After suggesting this on the wiki, we discussed it on the last IRC meeting, > it was well received. Perhaps we could write a general spec about it and > someone is willing to discuss it on UDS Mountain View. > Should this be proposed on the dev-mailing list? > Hi Jochen, I found a similar spec that will be discussed at UDS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConsolidateSpellingLibs You should subscribe to in in launchpad: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/consolidate-spell-checkers and add a suitable use case. Henrik From bethko at gmail.com Fri Oct 27 13:54:23 2006 From: bethko at gmail.com (Beth Koenig) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 06:54:23 -0700 Subject: Need advice/Question on Current Release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ac229cc0610270654x74ee214fu84e22b27da936a44@mail.gmail.com> It sounds like you need an alt disk. It's not the live disk but it's what used to be called the install disk until they got the install to work from the live disk. So now it's called an alt disk, or at least thats what I call it. It's good for installing on older systems. You should be able to download a copy on the edgy download page. Grrr... I can never remember urls. Beth Koenig bethko at gmail.com On 10/26/06, terrence at terrencevak.net wrote: > Hey there, all, > I tried the newest release, and have had little/no success with > it. The install script doesn't run when I click on it and my computer > freezes up. Also, running orca from console 1 told me it couldn't find > the display or something like tat, and/or told me that watchdog detected > something bad, and running it from within Gnome didn't produce *anything*. > Someone over on the gnome-accessibility list, I think it was, suggested > that some of my issues stemmed from the fact that I only had a PC with > 433 mhz and 160 MB of ram, and had suggested I try Xubuntu. However, I > haven't seemed to have much luck getting accessibility going on that. So > my questions are these: (1) *Can* I get Ubuntu up and running on my system > even if it does only have 160 MB of ram? (2) If Xubuntu would be a > solution for an old PC like this one, how would I get it accessible? and > (3) What *is* the best option for such a PC as I've described? I've been > using Oralux as my main distro, but there's things that Oralux can't do > that I'd need X to accomplish. > > Thanks, > Terrence > > -- > When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace. > A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of > love. > ___________________________________________________________________________ > AIM: terrencevane; Yahoo: terrencevak; MSN: ganvira at hotmail.com; icq: > 467073979; LJ: terrencevane > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From kb8aey at verizon.net Fri Oct 27 14:41:14 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:41:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: need info on the next version Message-ID: <0J7S003ABU4PS3GD@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, just wondered when the first live CD of edgy 1 will be out. As I remember the first disc of edgy was out soon after dapper. I was surprised how soon it came out. Anyway I just wondered. You are doing a great job on this operating system. If help is needed with having a basic guide made for new users, I would be glad to work on that project. Mike. From lists at janc.be Fri Oct 27 22:07:16 2006 From: lists at janc.be (Jan Claeys) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:07:16 +0200 Subject: Need advice/Question on Current Release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1161986837.11907.109.camel@localhost> Op donderdag 26-10-2006 om 22:11 uur [tijdzone -0800], schreef terrence at terrencevak.net: > I tried the newest release, and have had little/no success with > it. The install script doesn't run when I click on it and my computer > freezes up. Also, running orca from console 1 told me it couldn't find > the display or something like tat, and/or told me that watchdog detected > something bad, and running it from within Gnome didn't produce *anything*. > Someone over on the gnome-accessibility list, I think it was, suggested > that some of my issues stemmed from the fact that I only had a PC with > 433 mhz and 160 MB of ram, and had suggested I try Xubuntu. However, I > haven't seemed to have much luck getting accessibility going on that. So > my questions are these: (1) *Can* I get Ubuntu up and running on my system > even if it does only have 160 MB of ram? (2) If Xubuntu would be a > solution for an old PC like this one, how would I get it accessible? and > (3) What *is* the best option for such a PC as I've described? I've been > using Oralux as my main distro, but there's things that Oralux can't do > that I'd need X to accomplish. Like Beth suggested, it should be possible to install Ubuntu using the alternative install CD, but I don't know if the alternative installer is accessible, so you might need some help to do the installation. I have used Ubuntu with GNOME on a Pentium MMX 166MHz with 64 MiB RAM (it was really slow, but worked), but I don't know how much extra RAM is needed for the accessibility extras (speech synthesis etc.). -- Jan Claeys From kb8aey at verizon.net Sat Oct 28 03:14:32 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:14:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: just a idea Message-ID: <0J7T00E8ZT06DYW5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Hi,I was using a computer at a friends house today and had a idea. Would it be possible to make a version of ubuntu that could run from a usb drive. This way a student or anyone for that matter could take their operating system with them. I was thinking about a mini version that would contain one of the screen readers, orca or lsr, a word processor, gedit will probably work and a few other basic tools. I don't know how small a system like this could be, but I can see it would be very useful. Just a thought, Mike. From bethko at gmail.com Sat Oct 28 06:02:04 2006 From: bethko at gmail.com (Beth Koenig) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 23:02:04 -0700 Subject: Fwd: just a idea In-Reply-To: <8ac229cc0610272300q5c323ac1oaec8540dcc2fcae5@mail.gmail.com> References: <0J7T00E8ZT06DYW5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> <8ac229cc0610272300q5c323ac1oaec8540dcc2fcae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8ac229cc0610272302m33b46431lc6336ff63a8442e9@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Beth Koenig Date: Oct 27, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: Re: just a idea To: mike coulombe Cc: ubuntu You can put a vmware virtual machine on a thumb drive with a copy of vmware player. All you have to do is install the vm player and use it to access you os on the thumb drive. I suggest a 2mb drive for that so you have room for documents and stuff. On 10/27/06, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi,I was using a computer at a friends house today and had a idea. > Would it be possible to make a version of ubuntu that could run from a usb drive. > This way a student or anyone for that matter could take their operating system with them. > I was thinking about a mini version that would contain one of the screen readers, > orca or lsr, a word processor, gedit will probably work > and a few other basic tools. > I don't know how small a system like this could be, > but I can see it would be very useful. > Just a thought, Mike. > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From steve at fullmeasure.co.uk Sat Oct 28 06:13:20 2006 From: steve at fullmeasure.co.uk (Steve Lee) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 07:13:20 +0100 Subject: just a idea In-Reply-To: <8ac229cc0610272302m33b46431lc6336ff63a8442e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <0J7T00E8ZT06DYW5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> <8ac229cc0610272300q5c323ac1oaec8540dcc2fcae5@mail.gmail.com> <8ac229cc0610272302m33b46431lc6336ff63a8442e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6a4dbccf0610272313j2fd8b82bl929ace4a498f80c1@mail.gmail.com> I guess something like http://portableapps.com/ should be workable for linux as app installation is generally simpler (no registry). -- Steve Lee www.fullmeasure.co.uk www.oatsoft.org On 10/28/06, Beth Koenig wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Beth Koenig > Date: Oct 27, 2006 11:00 PM > Subject: Re: just a idea > To: mike coulombe > Cc: ubuntu > > > You can put a vmware virtual machine on a thumb drive with a copy of > vmware player. All you have to do is install the vm player and use it > to access you os on the thumb drive. I suggest a 2mb drive for that so > you have room for documents and stuff. > > On 10/27/06, mike coulombe wrote: > > Hi,I was using a computer at a friends house today and had a idea. > > Would it be possible to make a version of ubuntu that could run from a usb drive. > > This way a student or anyone for that matter could take their operating system with them. > > I was thinking about a mini version that would contain one of the screen readers, > > orca or lsr, a word processor, gedit will probably work > > and a few other basic tools. > > I don't know how small a system like this could be, > > but I can see it would be very useful. > > Just a thought, Mike. > > > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > -- -- Steve Lee www.fullmeasure.co.uk From steve at fullmeasure.co.uk Sat Oct 28 07:28:38 2006 From: steve at fullmeasure.co.uk (Steve Lee) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 08:28:38 +0100 Subject: Minor start up accessibility issue Message-ID: <6a4dbccf0610280028u74685464mc478886dca729101@mail.gmail.com> This may be specific to my system as I upgraded my laptop edubuntu installation to Ubuntu 6.10 which I guess means it may now not be quite a complete ubuntu or edubuntu setup (there was no option to upgrade to edubuntu 6.10). When I boot up the progress bar has extremely low contrast, in fact I can hardly see the change. It is also rather small on my 1280x800. In addition the text to 'press enter' at the end of shutdown is high contrast but very small. I also note the progress text has vanished but I'm guessing that is deliberate due to the new init or screen reader compatibility. Yeah I know it's trivial, but every little helps. Otherwise it looks like a good upgrade apart from DHCP not starting on boot but that's gone away now. Hasn't fixed my broken sound though. -- Steve Lee www.fullmeasure.co.uk www.oatsoft.org From steve at fullmeasure.co.uk Sat Oct 28 07:47:08 2006 From: steve at fullmeasure.co.uk (Steve Lee) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 08:47:08 +0100 Subject: just a idea In-Reply-To: <6a4dbccf0610272313j2fd8b82bl929ace4a498f80c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <0J7T00E8ZT06DYW5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> <8ac229cc0610272300q5c323ac1oaec8540dcc2fcae5@mail.gmail.com> <8ac229cc0610272302m33b46431lc6336ff63a8442e9@mail.gmail.com> <6a4dbccf0610272313j2fd8b82bl929ace4a498f80c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6a4dbccf0610280047w2c20c497mf6b3423e86b00379@mail.gmail.com> Actually could the LiveCD image be made to work on a USB key? It would be great if users could carry their AT setup with them from machine to machine. That implies the same OS/Distro on each machine or standards. Ideally just the config would be carried but the portable apps way would allow 'installation'. -- Steve Lee www.oatsoft.org www.fullmeasure.co.uk On 10/28/06, Steve Lee wrote: > I guess something like http://portableapps.com/ should be workable for > linux as app installation is generally simpler (no registry). > > -- Steve Lee > www.fullmeasure.co.uk > www.oatsoft.org > > On 10/28/06, Beth Koenig wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Beth Koenig > > Date: Oct 27, 2006 11:00 PM > > Subject: Re: just a idea > > To: mike coulombe > > Cc: ubuntu > > > > > > You can put a vmware virtual machine on a thumb drive with a copy of > > vmware player. All you have to do is install the vm player and use it > > to access you os on the thumb drive. I suggest a 2mb drive for that so > > you have room for documents and stuff. > > > > On 10/27/06, mike coulombe wrote: > > > Hi,I was using a computer at a friends house today and had a idea. > > > Would it be possible to make a version of ubuntu that could run from a usb drive. > > > This way a student or anyone for that matter could take their operating system with them. > > > I was thinking about a mini version that would contain one of the screen readers, > > > orca or lsr, a word processor, gedit will probably work > > > and a few other basic tools. > > > I don't know how small a system like this could be, > > > but I can see it would be very useful. > > > Just a thought, Mike. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > > > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > > > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > > > > -- > -- Steve Lee > www.fullmeasure.co.uk > From krister at kristersplace.ws Sat Oct 28 08:39:15 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 10:39:15 +0200 Subject: just a idea In-Reply-To: <0J7T00E8ZT06DYW5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J7T00E8ZT06DYW5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <1162024755.25047.2.camel@krister-desktop> Maybe some of the gurus out there can answer this better, but can't Xubuntu be used in such a way or is it too big to put on a usb stick or such? /Krister On Fri, 2006-10-27 at 22:14 -0500, mike coulombe wrote: > Hi,I was using a computer at a friends house today and had a idea. > Would it be possible to make a version of ubuntu that could run from a usb drive. > This way a student or anyone for that matter could take their operating system with them. > I was thinking about a mini version that would contain one of the screen readers, > orca or lsr, a word processor, gedit will probably work > and a few other basic tools. > I don't know how small a system like this could be, > but I can see it would be very useful. > Just a thought, Mike. > > From terrence at terrencevak.net Sat Oct 28 21:06:44 2006 From: terrence at terrencevak.net (Terrence van Ettinger) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:06:44 -0800 Subject: Using Orca with Evolution Message-ID: <1162069605.26509.8.camel@graphics.gci.net> hello there, all, Thanks for the advice on getting Ubuntu going on my dinosaur PC. The alternate install did turn out to have accessibiity features, and I'm probably going to switch my OSes around as soon as I get up the gumption to do all the backing up of my other hard drive necessary to keep from losing my files when I install Ubuntu onto the other hard drive. Although...if the hard drive I'm installing onto is already a Linux partition, is it possible to install without having do delete the data? Now to my main question. Is there a key that will let me automatically read the whole of an e-mail message? I can read my e-mails well enough by using the review keys, but ideally I'd prefer to be able to read the message in ne go. Thanks, Terrence From clever9 at oralux.org Sat Oct 28 20:50:00 2006 From: clever9 at oralux.org (Cleverson) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:50:00 -0200 Subject: Ubuntu versus Oralux and other questions Message-ID: <001301c6fad2$ba3ca2d0$0201a8c0@cleverson> Hello all I am blind and live in Brazil. I started to get envolved with Linux about one year ago. I have made some contributions to Oralux project, especially translating documents to Brazilian Portuguese language. Currently, I have Oralux installed on my hard drive, though I haven't migrated my complete desktop yet. I would like to know about some differences between Oralux and the recently-released Ubuntu 6.10. To be more specific, my questions for the moment are as follows: 1. Is it true that Orca screen reader is able to read console applications, such as Speakup or yasr would? If not, does ubuntu already contain a console screen reader such as Speakup included in the live CD and properly set? 2. Is it already possible to get eSpeak synthesiser to work with some screen reader, whether Orca, Speakup, Emacspeak, or another one? This is important because one of my difficulties to migrate to Linux is the lack of Brazilian Portuguese voices (currently there's only one MBROLA-based), and I'm contributing with a new Portuguese voice for eSpeak. That's it for the moment. I hope to contribute in some way with accessibility on Ubuntu. Many thanks, Cleverson From researchbase at gmail.com Sun Oct 29 15:37:53 2006 From: researchbase at gmail.com (krishnakant Mane) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:07:53 +0530 Subject: need the latest instructions for orca and edgy, any link? Message-ID: hello all, I have just got the edgy cd and now looking at some howto which I can follow. for an older unstable version of orca, I followed http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=246334 but it says that the page is obsolit and there will be a new page. now since edgy has finally been released, I will like to know if there are any updates to have orca run (not just on the live cd but on a permenent basis). I followed f5 and then 3 for accessibility. orca did not speak up. may be some sound card problem? but after I fix that problem, will this be the way to start orca? will it then run every time my system boots? or are there different sets of instructions for configuring and starting orca on an installed edgy machine? how is the installer doing now? can I use it? I am totally blind and can only depend on the speach system. thanking all. Krishnakant. From j-diggs at comcast.net Sun Oct 29 16:34:00 2006 From: j-diggs at comcast.net (Joanmarie Diggs) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:34:00 -0500 Subject: Orca need the latest instructions for orca and edgy, any link? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1162139640.4791.4.camel@pokey> Hi Krishnakant. Funny you should ask. Yesterday afternoon, I added some docs to the Orca wiki. Take a look at the following: http://live.gnome.org/Orca/UbuntuEdgyEft Hopefully it's what you're looking for. If not, or if you have any suggestions/corrections/what have you, do please let me know. Take care. Joanie On Sun, 2006-10-29 at 21:07 +0530, krishnakant Mane wrote: > hello all, > I have just got the edgy cd and now looking at some howto which I can follow. > for an older unstable version of orca, I followed > http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=246334 > but it says that the page is obsolit and there will be a new page. > now since edgy has finally been released, I will like to know if there > are any updates to have orca run (not just on the live cd but on a > permenent basis). > I followed f5 and then 3 for accessibility. > orca did not speak up. > may be some sound card problem? > but after I fix that problem, will this be the way to start orca? > will it then run every time my system boots? or are there different > sets of instructions for configuring and starting orca on an installed > edgy machine? > how is the installer doing now? can I use it? I am totally blind and > can only depend on the speach system. > thanking all. > Krishnakant. > _______________________________________________ > Orca-list mailing list > Orca-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list From henrik at ubuntu.com Mon Oct 30 12:12:20 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:12:20 +0100 Subject: need the latest instructions for orca and edgy, any link? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4545EC24.6060006@ubuntu.com> Hi, I think the best guide is currently in the Orca wiki: http://live.gnome.org/Orca/UbuntuEdgyEft (thanks Joanmarie!) Henrik krishnakant Mane wrote: > hello all, > I have just got the edgy cd and now looking at some howto which I can follow. > for an older unstable version of orca From kb8aey at verizon.net Mon Oct 30 23:56:17 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:56:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: installing the server cd Message-ID: <0J7Z0061R3TR28M1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, how hard is it to install the server CD. I have a computer I want to use as a server. Also is there a way to get a screen reader installed. What I need to know is after it is installed does it come up to a point where you can type apt-get and install yasr. Mike. From clever9 at oralux.org Mon Oct 30 23:31:24 2006 From: clever9 at oralux.org (Cleverson) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:31:24 -0200 Subject: eSpeak and Screen readers? Message-ID: <000601c6fc7b$ead78e50$0201a8c0@cleverson> Hello all First, thanks Terrence who answered my previous question regarding access to terminal apps in Ubuntu using Orca. Now I'd like to know if it's already possible to use eSpeak as a soft synth with some screen reader, or if it will be soon. I'm helping to develope a Brazilian Portuguese voice for eSpeak. Me and brazilian people in general will certainly take much advantage of it when it's available and manageable by a screen reader under Linux. Many thanks Cleverson From gcasse at oralux.org Tue Oct 31 02:17:47 2006 From: gcasse at oralux.org (Gilles Casse) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 03:17:47 +0100 Subject: eSpeak and Screen readers? In-Reply-To: <000601c6fc7b$ead78e50$0201a8c0@cleverson> References: <000601c6fc7b$ead78e50$0201a8c0@cleverson> Message-ID: <17734.45643.562839.681351@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Hello Cleverson, >From my side, this is the first time I meet such a TTS: fully free (GPL) and where new languages can be added relatively easily. As far as I know, Orca may currently use eSpeak through speech-dispatcher. By default in Ubuntu, Orca relies on gnome-speech rather than speech-dispatcher. I guess that gnome-speech has no eSpeak driver at the moment. So the user currently has to tweak a little bit his system for using eSpeak. In principle, another solution could be also an eSpeak speech server from Emacspeak :-). Cheers, Gilles -- Oralux http://oralux.org From researchbase at gmail.com Tue Oct 31 05:13:46 2006 From: researchbase at gmail.com (krishnakant Mane) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:43:46 +0530 Subject: Orca need the latest instructions for orca and edgy, any link? In-Reply-To: <4545EC24.6060006@ubuntu.com> References: <4545EC24.6060006@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: good documentation. I can't find the changes though. I am particularly interested in the accessibility development at the open office side. as I had mentioned previously, formatting information like bold and italics is not spoken out. has the problem been fixt? further more reading an entire document reads by line pauses not sentence pauses. I hoep most problems are fixt. I haven't got a machine yet to install ubuntu 6.10, but managed to run the live cd. could not test much as the machine obviously responded slow. Krishnakant. From terrence at terrencevak.net Tue Oct 31 06:39:28 2006 From: terrence at terrencevak.net (Terrence van Ettinger) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:39:28 -0900 Subject: Too much output from Orca Message-ID: <1162276770.11522.9.camel@thexbox.gci.net> Is there a way to get Orca not to blab the title in Firefox whenever I hit the tab key? It's kind of awkward to constantly have to wait for the title end to see where the focus is. Also, is there a down-to-earth explanation of the review keys of orca somewhere? Thanks, Terrence From kenny at hittsjunk.net Tue Oct 31 10:48:44 2006 From: kenny at hittsjunk.net (Kenny Hitt) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 04:48:44 -0600 Subject: eSpeak and Screen readers? In-Reply-To: <000601c6fc7b$ead78e50$0201a8c0@cleverson> References: <000601c6fc7b$ead78e50$0201a8c0@cleverson> Message-ID: <20061031104844.GA14700@blackbox.hittsjunk.net> Hi. You can use espeak as the synth with any screen reader that has speech-dispatcher support. The 2 screan readers I know of that can use speech-dispatcher are speakup and orca. Hope this helps. Kenny On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 09:31:24PM -0200, Cleverson wrote: > Hello all > > First, thanks Terrence who answered my previous question regarding > access to terminal apps in Ubuntu using Orca. > > Now I'd like to know if it's already possible to use eSpeak as a soft > synth with some screen reader, or if it will be soon. > > I'm helping to develope a Brazilian Portuguese voice for eSpeak. Me and > brazilian people in general will certainly take much advantage of it > when it's available and manageable by a screen reader under Linux. > > Many thanks > > Cleverson > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From henrik at ubuntu.com Tue Oct 31 11:13:27 2006 From: henrik at ubuntu.com (Henrik Nilsen Omma) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:13:27 +0100 Subject: installing the server cd In-Reply-To: <0J7Z0061R3TR28M1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0J7Z0061R3TR28M1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <45472FD7.40304@ubuntu.com> mike coulombe wrote: > Hi, how hard is it to install the server CD. > I have a computer I want to use as a server. > Also is there a way to get a screen reader installed. > What I need to know is after it is installed does it come up to a point where you can type apt-get and install yasr. > Your best bet might be to install the standard desktop version of Ubuntu with Gnome and Orca. Set nit up and the run it as a server without the GUI. Henrik From krister at kristersplace.ws Tue Oct 31 11:25:29 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:25:29 +0100 Subject: Weird problem on my Ubuntu system Message-ID: <454732A9.5020202@kristersplace.ws> Hi folks. First, i'm sorry for the cross posting, but i am at a loss now, and don't know what to do and maybe if one don't know the other one will. I have a wierd problem, to say the least on my Ubuntu system (Latest Edgi, Orca from Cvs and ESpeak but it also occurrs on Festival). The problem i'm having is that every time i go into a menu in Gnome, and it doesn't matter which menu and then arrow down a couple steps, the system crashes and Bug buddy comes up with an error report. This started happening last sunday and as far as i know, i didn't do anything in particular to make this start happening. I'm no programmer, so the techy side of the problem is something i don't understand, unfortunately so can't give you any hacker details. I have a bug buddy error report with most debug symbols in place that i could attach should someone want it, but as i said, me i'm at a loss as to what gives here. Thanks in advance for any hints, questions or info you could pass my way. /Krister From William.Walker at Sun.COM Tue Oct 31 13:37:25 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:37:25 -0500 Subject: Orca docs and support for Firefox (was Re: Too much output from Orca) In-Reply-To: <1162276770.11522.9.camel@thexbox.gci.net> References: <1162276770.11522.9.camel@thexbox.gci.net> Message-ID: <1162301845.31595.107.camel@ubuntu> Hi Terrence: The current support for Firefox 2 is definitely not anything I'd want to call compelling access: it kind of works, but is clunky and doesn't work well for many real world web pages. Earlier this year, we needed to make choice for focusing our efforts to web access, and both the Orca and Firefox teams agreed that we would not focus on Firefox 2 for accessibility. Instead, the focus for compelling access is Firefox 3 (due in spring '07). We're working very hard on this right now, and I hope that we will have skeletal stuff available for testing well before the end of the year. With respect to keyboard commands, there's a web page here: http://live.gnome.org/Orca/KeyboardCommands In addition, you can put Orca in a learn mode that allows you to press key combinations on the keyboard and braille display. In learn mode, Orca speaks and brailles the action that would have been taken by Orca if learn mode were not on. To enter learn mode: Insert+F1. To exit: escape. You may also be interested http://live.gnome.org/Orca in general as well as this page: http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions In addition, I encourage you to join the orca-list where Orca-specific discussion happens: http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Hope this helps, Will (Orca project lead) On Mon, 2006-10-30 at 21:39 -0900, Terrence van Ettinger wrote: > Is there a way to get Orca not to blab the title in Firefox whenever I > hit the tab key? It's kind of awkward to constantly have to wait for > the title end to see where the focus is. Also, is there a down-to-earth > explanation of the review keys of orca somewhere? > > Thanks, > Terrence > > From parente at gmail.com Tue Oct 31 13:44:24 2006 From: parente at gmail.com (Peter Parente) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:44:24 -0500 Subject: eSpeak and Screen Readers? Message-ID: <5308fd2c0610310544u858261erfa9eb933727f69d8@mail.gmail.com> Lorenzo T. indicated on the gnome accessibility mailing list that he managed to get eSpeak working in LSR via Speech Dispatcher. Here's a link to his post. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2006-October/msg00038.html Pete From William.Walker at Sun.COM Tue Oct 31 14:04:04 2006 From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:04:04 -0500 Subject: Orca Weird problem on my Ubuntu system In-Reply-To: <454732A9.5020202@kristersplace.ws> References: <454732A9.5020202@kristersplace.ws> Message-ID: <1162303444.31595.126.camel@ubuntu> Hi Krister: I'm going to guess this is gnome-panel crashing. It has a very sad outlook on life and randomly kills itself when it sees an assistive technology running. When one looks at the 492 open bugs on gnome-panel, 35 of them have "crash" in their summary, so I'm guessing gnome-panel is doing some rather complex things that are hard to get right. :-( One of my mottos is "if you want something done right, OR AT ALL, you have to do it yourself." As such, we (the Orca team) may need to be the ones to track this problem down and propose a patch to the gnome-panel folks. If someone else has time and wants to take the lead on this, I have no problem with them doing so. ;-) ;-) ;-) Will On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 12:25 +0100, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > Hi folks. > First, i'm sorry for the cross posting, but i am at a loss now, and > don't know what to do and maybe if one don't know the other one will. > I have a wierd problem, to say the least on my Ubuntu system (Latest > Edgi, Orca from Cvs and ESpeak but it also occurrs on Festival). > The problem i'm having is that every time i go into a menu in Gnome, and > it doesn't matter which menu and then arrow down a couple steps, the > system crashes and Bug buddy comes up with an error report. This started > happening last sunday and as far as i know, i didn't do anything in > particular to make this start happening. I'm no programmer, so the techy > side of the problem is something i don't understand, unfortunately so > can't give you any hacker details. I have a bug buddy error report with > most debug symbols in place that i could attach should someone want it, > but as i said, me i'm at a loss as to what gives here. > Thanks in advance for any hints, questions or info you could pass my way. > /Krister > _______________________________________________ > Orca-list mailing list > Orca-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list From krister at kristersplace.ws Tue Oct 31 14:41:52 2006 From: krister at kristersplace.ws (Krister Ekstrom) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:41:52 +0100 Subject: Orca Weird problem on my Ubuntu system In-Reply-To: <1162303444.31595.126.camel@ubuntu> References: <454732A9.5020202@kristersplace.ws> <1162303444.31595.126.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <454760B0.5050700@kristersplace.ws> You are right, Will, it seems to be Gnome-panel that acts up. The problem got solved when i installed the regular, not the cvs version of Orca. Too bad, because i really loved the way the "users and groups" bug was solved. The only thing that didn't work, was that Orca didn't anounce the changed status of the check box when pressing the space bar, otherwise it worked fine, but i can't use it, since something goes wrong between orca and gnome-panel. /Krister Willie Walker wrote: > Hi Krister: > > I'm going to guess this is gnome-panel crashing. It has a very sad > outlook on life and randomly kills itself when it sees an assistive > technology running. When one looks at the 492 open bugs on gnome-panel, > 35 of them have "crash" in their summary, so I'm guessing gnome-panel is > doing some rather complex things that are hard to get right. :-( > > One of my mottos is "if you want something done right, OR AT ALL, you > have to do it yourself." As such, we (the Orca team) may need to be the > ones to track this problem down and propose a patch to the gnome-panel > folks. If someone else has time and wants to take the lead on this, I > have no problem with them doing so. ;-) ;-) ;-) > > Will > > On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 12:25 +0100, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >> Hi folks. >> First, i'm sorry for the cross posting, but i am at a loss now, and >> don't know what to do and maybe if one don't know the other one will. >> I have a wierd problem, to say the least on my Ubuntu system (Latest >> Edgi, Orca from Cvs and ESpeak but it also occurrs on Festival). >> The problem i'm having is that every time i go into a menu in Gnome, and >> it doesn't matter which menu and then arrow down a couple steps, the >> system crashes and Bug buddy comes up with an error report. This started >> happening last sunday and as far as i know, i didn't do anything in >> particular to make this start happening. I'm no programmer, so the techy >> side of the problem is something i don't understand, unfortunately so >> can't give you any hacker details. I have a bug buddy error report with >> most debug symbols in place that i could attach should someone want it, >> but as i said, me i'm at a loss as to what gives here. >> Thanks in advance for any hints, questions or info you could pass my way. >> /Krister >> _______________________________________________ >> Orca-list mailing list >> Orca-list at gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > From clever9 at oralux.org Tue Oct 31 21:24:18 2006 From: clever9 at oralux.org (Cleverson) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:24:18 -0200 Subject: More Accessibility in Ubuntu DVD? Message-ID: <003101c6fd33$157d7220$0201a8c0@cleverson> Hello, I'd like to know if there is in Ubuntu DVD a larger number of pre-configured accessibility features than in Desktop CD, namely some Screen Reader other than Orca and some Synthesiser. I'm evaluating what's the best image for me to download. If the DVD environment doesn't differ from the CD, I'll download the CD and install aditional software from the Internet when I need it latter. Thanks Cleverson From clever9 at oralux.org Tue Oct 31 21:24:53 2006 From: clever9 at oralux.org (Cleverson) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:24:53 -0200 Subject: eSpeak and Screen readers? Message-ID: <003201c6fd33$15c50270$0201a8c0@cleverson> Hello all Thanks Gilles, Kenny and Peter for answering me. Yes, I have also found eSpeak method of managing languages straightly simple, especially when compared to other synths I knew. If Speech Dispatcher can manage eSpeak, then it's already possible to work with eSpeak under Speakup and Orca, am I right? If so, then I could get it to work under Oralux + Epsakup and Ubuntu + Orca, I guess. So, what are the steps necessary to get Speech Dispatcher to work with eSpeak? Thank you! Cleverson From kb8aey at verizon.net Sun Oct 29 14:21:06 2006 From: kb8aey at verizon.net (mike coulombe) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 08:21:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: alternate install cd Message-ID: <0J7W00C1SIJ5NBW5@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Hi, is there any accessibility at all in the alternate install CD. For example a screen reader like yasr. Mike. X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0643-8, 10/27/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean