Disappointed with Gutsy live (long)

Wed Oct 24 18:59:20 UTC 2007

Just re-downloaded it and tried it again and it seems to work fine in a vm 
session, am going to install it and test it finally.  The install method is 
still the same I tried to do it from the desktop didn't work.  I do notice 
like Debra that the install dialogue isn't read automatically like it was in 
previous versions.  I'll file this as a bug soon.

Mike
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
To: "Mike Reiser" <metalhead1009000 at gmail.com>
Cc: <debee at jfcl.com>; <ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Gutsy live (long)

> I'm probably going to pass on this version entirely.  A new version ought 
> to come with accessibility improvements beyond gutsy that may be worth 
> installing.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Mike Reiser wrote:
>
>> I've tried it in a vm on windows and natively on the cd and no luck in 
>> eather case.  I think we should wait until it is finally confirmed that 
>> the cd works properly.
>>
>> Mike
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
>> To: "Mike Reiser" <metalhead1009000 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: <debee at jfcl.com>; <ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: Disappointed with Gutsy live (long)
>>
>>
>>> I read over on the speakup list of another failed attempt to get the 
>>> system upgraded from feisty to gutsy using the CD if memory serves. 
>>> Apparently not all the hardware that was on the computer was supported 
>>> by gutsy so dpkg went into a Catch #22 situation where further upgrading 
>>> is blocked because dpkg couldn't install a package correctly and 
>>> completely.
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Mike Reiser wrote:
>>>
>>> >  I share your disappointments, I can't even get the live CD to work 
>>> > here. We've been basically excluded from the testing phase of this 
>>> > version also.
>>> >
>>> >  Mike
>>> >   ----- Original Message -----
>>> >   From: Deborah Norling
>>> >   To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> >   Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:06 PM
>>> >   Subject: Disappointed with Gutsy live (long)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >  I like Ubuntu, because as they say, it usually "just works". I run a 
>>> > feisty-based server and helped my sighted husband set up MythTV on a 
>>> > pre-release of Gutsy.
>>> >
>>> >  That's why I'm particularly disappointed with the newly released 
>>> > Gutsy live desktop CD. I'm posting this in detail in hopes that I've 
>>> > just missed something crucial.
>>> >
>>> >  I played with the Feisty live CD back in March and April of this 
>>> > year, before and after it was released. I never successfully installed 
>>> > Feisty using Orca. I had no trouble at all with Ubuntu (any version) 
>>> > if I stuck to the alternate or server install CD, and installed using 
>>> > the serial port. But the problems I had with Feisty six months ago 
>>> > seem to still be occurring.
>>> >
>>> >  Serial ports are disappearing from desktops so I want to be able to 
>>> > use Linux without needing to depend on speakup, hardware synthesizers 
>>> > or serial consoles. At this point Linux is a hobby; I work as a 
>>> > Windows computer tech for a college. But I hope to eventually ditch 
>>> > Windows and even find employment working in a non-windows environment.
>>> >
>>> >  I boot the Gutsy live desktop CD and press F5 for the access options. 
>>> > I press 3 or arrow down to it, to activate Orca. I press ENTER twice 
>>> > and wait a couple of minutes.
>>> >
>>> >  Orca runs, and it seems to be working as well as it ever worked. It 
>>> > can't read help, which would seem to be the first thing a new user 
>>> > would want to do, but OpenOffice does work, so I presume it is happy 
>>> > with my hardware.
>>> >
>>> >  I run brltty by quitting orca, running gnome-terminal, typing sudo su 
>>> > and on the next command line typing "brltty -bauto -d/dev/ttyUSB0".
>>> >
>>> >  Brltty runs, but says the screen is not in text mode. Ok, guess even 
>>> > in a terminal, we aren't in text mode.
>>> >
>>> >  It would be nice if this was better documented; the need to run 
>>> > brltty for Braille support, even though Braille support is already 
>>> > checked in the Orca preferences, the fact that even in gnome-terminal 
>>> > the screen is presumably not text-based, and the fact that help isn't 
>>> > working. I can add to the wiki of course. but would beginners know to 
>>> > look there? What about a readme on the CD, which auto-starts in 
>>> > Windows with a screen that's basically advertising for Ubuntu with no 
>>> > real information. Or maybe just a how-to page on the Ubuntu site that 
>>> > covers all this. I am eager to improve the docs, but I have to get it 
>>> > running first and know what I'm doing.
>>> >
>>> >  Another disappointment: this is still brltty 3.72. The Orca wiki 
>>> > states that it's better to use 3.8 because it can be compiled with the 
>>> > python bindings -- so why is an older, less effective version on this 
>>> > new live CD?
>>> >
>>> >  I run Orca again and now it is communicating with brltty. Python 
>>> > bindings or not, it seems to show everything in Braille just fine.
>>> >
>>> >  On my Windows PC, I search the internet for information about 
>>> > installing Gutsy using Orca. Lots of info about conflicts with 
>>> > different versions of portaudio,  forum postings  about how cool it is 
>>> > that Ubuntu is accessible, but no definitive tutorial or how-to on 
>>> > installing. A few days ago, I found lots more information on fixing 
>>> > MythTV problems. It's disappointing that  there is so little 
>>> > information as I do believe strongly in RTFM.
>>> >
>>> >  I've already tried the Install icon from the desktop with my husband 
>>> > reading the screen. He confirms that the install runs, but Orca can 
>>> > only echo keystrokes, it reads nothing in the install dialogs.
>>> >
>>> >  I locate instructions on installing Feisty with Orca, the same wiki 
>>> > page I've myself contributed to. I follow those instructions, running 
>>> > gnome-terminal, typing sudo su, quitting orca, then running orca again 
>>> > with orca --disable-setup --disable main-window. I next type ubiquity, 
>>> > and the install runs, but still, Orca can't read any of it. Not even 
>>> > in flat review does it see anything.
>>> >
>>> >  Between these tests I've done alt-ctrl-backspace to kill the X 
>>> > session, and brltty remains active, informing me that default boot 
>>> > scripts are being run. Each time Orca does automatically load and work 
>>> > with Braille. It crashes once, but I get it back easily, and the 
>>> > system seems generally stable.
>>> >
>>> >  At one point, I try running gparted as root, and though ps confirms 
>>> > that gparted is running, Orca can't read its screen either. Is orca 
>>> > only really able to let me access just a few "productivity" apps? I 
>>> > saw that Sun at CSUN had done a session on MythTV with Orca last year, 
>>> > so I'd expected Orca to work with a wide variety of software.
>>> >
>>> >  I've tried this on several PCS and I can't figure out if Orca is 
>>> > really this undeveloped or I'm doing something wrong.
>>> >
>>> >  I've looked on the wiki at what I presume are the latest release 
>>> > notes; they discuss details like the spell-checker working better in 
>>> > OpenOffice, Firefox 2 vs 3  and the bugginess of acroread. I'm 
>>> > grateful that so much hard work has gone in to working with the 
>>> > Firefox developers and scripting applications like Gaim, But I now 
>>> > just want to read the install dialogs.
>>> >
>>> >  In theory, since X is client-server based, since all information is 
>>> > openly available, and because a whole ton of people are working hard 
>>> > on this project, Orca should be miles ahead of Windows screen readers 
>>> > like JAWS. I'm disappointed; I really want to ditch Windows, but how 
>>> > can I if access is this flaky still?
>>> >
>>> >   --Debee
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> 
>>> >   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >   --
>>> >   Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list
>>> >   Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> >   https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
>>> >
>> 