From pstowe at gmail.com Thu Apr 1 00:09:39 2010 From: pstowe at gmail.com (Penelope Stowe) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:09:39 -0400 Subject: Reviving the Accessibility Team - meeting? Message-ID: Hiya, I've been looking around on what there is for the Accessibility Team on the wiki and reading e-mails, along with chatting with Luke on IRC (in #ubuntu-accessibility) and it strikes me that we need to create a solid Accessibility Team in the community. Not only will doing so help future new-users (or existing users who develop a disability), but a cohesive team means a stronger voice in the Ubuntu community as a whole. I'd like to propose having a meeting sometime the week of April 11-17 in #ubuntu-accessibility on freenode on IRC to come up with some foundation for getting the Accessibility Team going. If there are issues with doing a meeting on IRC not being accessible, feel free to suggest other places for the meeting. If you're interested in having a meeting, please send the list or me an e-mail with the days/times that week you're available and I'll try to find a time that works for the most people. I think in this meeting we should discuss putting together a blueprint for things we want to and think we can get done during the Lucid+1 cycle. I also think it might be nice to start to look at a roadmap and goals for the team in a long term. I'm going to send a separate e-mail to the list (not tonight, but later this week) with some of my ideas for things we could do and I hope other people will think about it as well so we can get some discussion going! Thanks! Penelope From weavermicha at googlemail.com Thu Apr 1 03:26:14 2010 From: weavermicha at googlemail.com (michael weaver) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:26:14 +0100 Subject: upgrading ubuntu Message-ID: <4bb4105a.8507cc0a.15df.ffffad45@mx.google.com> i think i am going to have to wwait until there is a bit more of a stable lucid or until final release and just do a fresh install of ubuntu. as i don't have the technical knowledge to be able to install speakup i don't know if an upgrade would be easier via a text terminal and i have not had any luck creating the file to be able to get accessible admin as regards the gui and i don't always have a sighted person around to be able to at least see if an upgrade is actually working. i remember once trying to do an upgrade where my local linux group used to hold meetings which i don't think has happened for a while because the main people have moved areas to leeds and the like and it would have taken to long to upgrade anyway but when i had someone look at what i was doing, they seemmed to think that the upgrade had not started when i went through the alt plus f2 update-manager dash d because when i had entered on ok, i seemed to have to tab to another upgrade button without speech access, hit enter on it and possibly had to re-type my password. it is like the interface for update-manager is slightly different with upgrading from that of updating where if you just do a standard up-date, you can tab around and get orca feedback to say that you have updates and when you hit the install and are maybe asked for the password, away it goes and downloads them whereas with the upgrade, you see that the upgrade is there if you run the update-manager from alt f2 with the dash d command at the end, it shows you the upgrade notes, you hit the upgrade button, you enter the password and ok it and i think to someone with sight you have to locate the upgrade button again which someone without sight can't access because i think a dialogue box pops up with buttons for check for updates, upgrade, and cancel and you have to go to the correct button and enter on the upgrade and possibly re-type admin password, ok and then it starts. i think that is what confuses people without sight like it is a double confirmation, when you see the notes about the new release you can accept and it is like it brings up another dialogue box after you first ok your password like "are you sure you want to do this." i think i only found this out because the chap who was trying to help me said the upgrade hadn't started even though i had chosen the upgrade button, entered my password and hit ok. i think if i knew perhaps the number of tabbs when i have to get to the upgrade button in the dialogue box where orca doesn't appear to read i could possibly do it but without a family who are not linux users and with me not having a sighted partner or any sighted family member around looking at the pc or laptop screens for me i am only guessing there is this second dialogue appears before the actual upgrade is actually started. From glen.m.darby at virgin.net Thu Apr 1 06:34:11 2010 From: glen.m.darby at virgin.net (Glen Darby) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:34:11 +0100 Subject: Accessibility Meeting Message-ID: <1270103651.2237.10.camel@glen-desktop> Hi, I would dearly like to be involved in the meeting if it comes together. I work with disabled and have been trying to look for a linux type version of "EZ Keys" which uses a single switch to access the computer. I programme a little and pick up quite fast and would be willing to be involved in the project but would need advice on where to start etc. I would be free 11th, 12th, 17th, Between 11-2 on 13th, between 10-3:30 on 14th, between 9-12:30 on 15th. Any reply would be appreciated, even if you say it is not what the meetings for, just so I know. Many thanks. Glen Darby. -- Brixham Activity Services e: glen.m.darby at virgin.net e: hayley.darby at virgin.net T: 01803 883799 w: brixhamactivityservices.co.uk From leoquant at ubuntu.com Thu Apr 1 12:39:08 2010 From: leoquant at ubuntu.com (leoquant) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 14:39:08 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu-accessibility Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BB493EC.1090807@ubuntu.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ubuntu-accessibility-request at lists.ubuntu.com schreef: > Send Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list submissions to > ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ubuntu-accessibility-request at lists.ubuntu.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ubuntu-accessibility-owner at lists.ubuntu.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ubuntu-accessibility digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Reviving the Accessibility Team - meeting? (Penelope Stowe) > 2. upgrading ubuntu (michael weaver) > 3. Accessibility Meeting (Glen Darby) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:09:39 -0400 > From: Penelope Stowe > Subject: Reviving the Accessibility Team - meeting? > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hiya, > > I've been looking around on what there is for the Accessibility Team > on the wiki and reading e-mails, along with chatting with Luke on IRC > (in #ubuntu-accessibility) and it strikes me that we need to create a > solid Accessibility Team in the community. Not only will doing so help > future new-users (or existing users who develop a disability), but a > cohesive team means a stronger voice in the Ubuntu community as a > whole. > > I'd like to propose having a meeting sometime the week of April 11-17 > in #ubuntu-accessibility on freenode on IRC to come up with some > foundation for getting the Accessibility Team going. If there are > issues with doing a meeting on IRC not being accessible, feel free to > suggest other places for the meeting. If you're interested in having a > meeting, please send the list or me an e-mail with the days/times that > week you're available and I'll try to find a time that works for the > most people. > > I think in this meeting we should discuss putting together a blueprint > for things we want to and think we can get done during the Lucid+1 > cycle. I also think it might be nice to start to look at a roadmap and > goals for the team in a long term. > > I'm going to send a separate e-mail to the list (not tonight, but > later this week) with some of my ideas for things we could do and I > hope other people will think about it as well so we can get some > discussion going! > > Thanks! > Penelope > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:26:14 +0100 > From: michael weaver > Subject: upgrading ubuntu > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Message-ID: <4bb4105a.8507cc0a.15df.ffffad45 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > i think i am going to have to wwait until there is a bit more of > a stable lucid or until final release and just do a fresh install > of ubuntu. > as i don't have the technical knowledge to be able to install > speakup i don't know if an upgrade would be easier via a text > terminal and i have not had any luck creating the file to be able > to get accessible admin as regards the gui and i don't always > have a sighted person around to be able to at least see if an > upgrade is actually working. > i remember once trying to do an upgrade where my local linux > group used to hold meetings which i don't think has happened for > a while because the main people have moved areas to leeds and the > like and it would have taken to long to upgrade anyway but when i > had someone look at what i was doing, they seemmed to think that > the upgrade had not started when i went through the alt plus f2 > update-manager dash d because when i had entered on ok, i seemed > to have to tab to another upgrade button without speech access, > hit enter on it and possibly had to re-type my password. > it is like the interface for update-manager is slightly different > with upgrading from that of updating where if you just do a > standard up-date, you can tab around and get orca feedback to say > that you have updates and when you hit the install and are maybe > asked for the password, away it goes and downloads them whereas > with the upgrade, you see that the upgrade is there if you run > the update-manager from alt f2 with the dash d command at the > end, it shows you the upgrade notes, you hit the upgrade button, > you enter the password and ok it and i think to someone with > sight you have to locate the upgrade button again which someone > without sight can't access because i think a dialogue box pops up > with buttons for check for updates, upgrade, and cancel and you > have to go to the correct button and enter on the upgrade and > possibly re-type admin password, ok and then it starts. > i think that is what confuses people without sight like it is a > double confirmation, when you see the notes about the new release > you can accept and it is like it brings up another dialogue box > after you first ok your password like "are you sure you want to > do this." > i think i only found this out because the chap who was trying to > help me said the upgrade hadn't started even though i had chosen > the upgrade button, entered my password and hit ok. > i think if i knew perhaps the number of tabbs when i have to get > to the upgrade button in the dialogue box where orca doesn't > appear to read i could possibly do it but without a family who > are not linux users and with me not having a sighted partner or > any sighted family member around looking at the pc or laptop > screens for me i am only guessing there is this second dialogue > appears before the actual upgrade is actually started. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:34:11 +0100 > From: Glen Darby > Subject: Accessibility Meeting > To: Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Message-ID: <1270103651.2237.10.camel at glen-desktop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hi, > I would dearly like to be involved in the meeting if it comes together. > I work with disabled and have been trying to look for a linux type > version of "EZ Keys" which uses a single switch to access the computer. > > I programme a little and pick up quite fast and would be willing to be > involved in the project but would need advice on where to start etc. > > I would be free 11th, 12th, 17th, Between 11-2 on 13th, between 10-3:30 > on 14th, between 9-12:30 on 15th. > > Any reply would be appreciated, even if you say it is not what the > meetings for, just so I know. > > Many thanks. > > Glen Darby. > > Hi, I would very much encourage this idea of Penelope, and would also be glad to get more involved in reviving the team. kind regards leoquant -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFLtJPsbcC9IXrx7bMRAuxjAJ9dS24PjvqVbl8WQslIb719Ws6WBwCfUe1z /iNAui9kE1MYAS8yL8pfB/c= =6GEd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Thu Apr 1 18:49:31 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 14:49:31 -0400 Subject: [orca-list] lucid and login In-Reply-To: References: <4bad3222.9804cc0a.3ba0.614f@mx.google.com> <4BB4E215.5080807@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Bill! Can one work around the gksu problem by starting ubiquity in a terminal, with 'sudo'? On Apr 1, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Bill Cox wrote: > You need to enable orca at the boot screen using this special magic sequence: > So, in summary: > > space every 3-4 seconds for 30 seconds, then F5, 3, and enter twice. > > If you do this, Orca should come up talking. However, there's still > some bugs in gksu, which is used by ubiquity. If you install this on > your hard drive, installation may stop talking half way through. If > this happens, reboot and try again from the beginning. > > Bill From waywardgeek at gmail.com Thu Apr 1 18:52:33 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:52:33 -0400 Subject: [orca-list] lucid and login In-Reply-To: References: <4bad3222.9804cc0a.3ba0.614f@mx.google.com> <4BB4E215.5080807@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, you can get around the gksu problem. In a terminal, run: sudo /usr/lib/ubiquity/bin/ubiquity Don't run the script in /usr/bin/ubiquity. That's the script that calls gksu. In Vinux, we patch this script to use sudo. Bill On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Dave Hunt wrote: > Hi Bill! > > Can one work around the gksu problem by starting ubiquity in a terminal, with 'sudo'? > > > On Apr 1, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Bill Cox wrote: > >> You need to enable orca at the boot screen using this special magic sequence: >> So, in summary: >> >> space every 3-4 seconds for 30 seconds, then F5, 3, and enter twice. >> >> If you do this, Orca should come up talking.  However, there's still >> some bugs in gksu, which is used by ubiquity.  If you install this on >> your hard drive, installation may stop talking half way through.  If >> this happens, reboot and try again from the beginning. >> >> Bill > > _______________________________________________ > Orca-list mailing list > Orca-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. > The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions > Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp > From vilmar at informal.com.br Thu Apr 1 20:15:08 2010 From: vilmar at informal.com.br (jose vilmar estacio de souza) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:15:08 -0300 Subject: no more login sound Message-ID: <4BB4FECC.5040804@informal.com.br> Hi all, Today, after I update my ubuntu 10.04 installation, the login sound no longer is played. after the login From vilmar at informal.com.br Fri Apr 2 07:21:15 2010 From: vilmar at informal.com.br (jose vilmar estacio de souza) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 04:21:15 -0300 Subject: speakup under ubuntu 10.04 Message-ID: <4BB59AEB.5040402@informal.com.br> Hi all, I tried installing and using speakup in ubuntu 10.04 but did not have much lucky. The installation process went smoothly but when attempting using speakup problems began. 1. No feedback in the login screen. 2. After logging in, it is very dificult to understand what is spoken, especially if we are typing. Seems the same problem that the orca had with pulseaudio. Any tips or suggestions? Thanks. From phillw at phillw.net Fri Apr 2 07:51:26 2010 From: phillw at phillw.net (Phill Whiteside) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 08:51:26 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu-accessibility Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <4BB493EC.1090807@ubuntu.com> References: <4BB493EC.1090807@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: Hi, I'm interested in Accessibiltiy issues, and do keep an eye out for developments etc. I've posted and replied to a couple of threads in the assistive & accessiblity forum http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=145 My personal musings are over at http://forum.phillw.net/viewforum.php?f=14 I would really like for someone, somewhere to try to give guidance as to where things should be going. With a bit of notice, I am available 24/7 365 days. Regards, Phill. On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 1:39 PM, leoquant wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > ubuntu-accessibility-request at lists.ubuntu.com schreef: > > Send Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list submissions to > > ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > ubuntu-accessibility-request at lists.ubuntu.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > ubuntu-accessibility-owner at lists.ubuntu.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Ubuntu-accessibility digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Reviving the Accessibility Team - meeting? (Penelope Stowe) > > 2. upgrading ubuntu (michael weaver) > > 3. Accessibility Meeting (Glen Darby) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:09:39 -0400 > > From: Penelope Stowe > > Subject: Reviving the Accessibility Team - meeting? > > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > Hiya, > > > > I've been looking around on what there is for the Accessibility Team > > on the wiki and reading e-mails, along with chatting with Luke on IRC > > (in #ubuntu-accessibility) and it strikes me that we need to create a > > solid Accessibility Team in the community. Not only will doing so help > > future new-users (or existing users who develop a disability), but a > > cohesive team means a stronger voice in the Ubuntu community as a > > whole. > > > > I'd like to propose having a meeting sometime the week of April 11-17 > > in #ubuntu-accessibility on freenode on IRC to come up with some > > foundation for getting the Accessibility Team going. If there are > > issues with doing a meeting on IRC not being accessible, feel free to > > suggest other places for the meeting. If you're interested in having a > > meeting, please send the list or me an e-mail with the days/times that > > week you're available and I'll try to find a time that works for the > > most people. > > > > I think in this meeting we should discuss putting together a blueprint > > for things we want to and think we can get done during the Lucid+1 > > cycle. I also think it might be nice to start to look at a roadmap and > > goals for the team in a long term. > > > > I'm going to send a separate e-mail to the list (not tonight, but > > later this week) with some of my ideas for things we could do and I > > hope other people will think about it as well so we can get some > > discussion going! > > > > Thanks! > > Penelope > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:26:14 +0100 > > From: michael weaver > > Subject: upgrading ubuntu > > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > Message-ID: <4bb4105a.8507cc0a.15df.ffffad45 at mx.google.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > i think i am going to have to wwait until there is a bit more of > > a stable lucid or until final release and just do a fresh install > > of ubuntu. > > as i don't have the technical knowledge to be able to install > > speakup i don't know if an upgrade would be easier via a text > > terminal and i have not had any luck creating the file to be able > > to get accessible admin as regards the gui and i don't always > > have a sighted person around to be able to at least see if an > > upgrade is actually working. > > i remember once trying to do an upgrade where my local linux > > group used to hold meetings which i don't think has happened for > > a while because the main people have moved areas to leeds and the > > like and it would have taken to long to upgrade anyway but when i > > had someone look at what i was doing, they seemmed to think that > > the upgrade had not started when i went through the alt plus f2 > > update-manager dash d because when i had entered on ok, i seemed > > to have to tab to another upgrade button without speech access, > > hit enter on it and possibly had to re-type my password. > > it is like the interface for update-manager is slightly different > > with upgrading from that of updating where if you just do a > > standard up-date, you can tab around and get orca feedback to say > > that you have updates and when you hit the install and are maybe > > asked for the password, away it goes and downloads them whereas > > with the upgrade, you see that the upgrade is there if you run > > the update-manager from alt f2 with the dash d command at the > > end, it shows you the upgrade notes, you hit the upgrade button, > > you enter the password and ok it and i think to someone with > > sight you have to locate the upgrade button again which someone > > without sight can't access because i think a dialogue box pops up > > with buttons for check for updates, upgrade, and cancel and you > > have to go to the correct button and enter on the upgrade and > > possibly re-type admin password, ok and then it starts. > > i think that is what confuses people without sight like it is a > > double confirmation, when you see the notes about the new release > > you can accept and it is like it brings up another dialogue box > > after you first ok your password like "are you sure you want to > > do this." > > i think i only found this out because the chap who was trying to > > help me said the upgrade hadn't started even though i had chosen > > the upgrade button, entered my password and hit ok. > > i think if i knew perhaps the number of tabbs when i have to get > > to the upgrade button in the dialogue box where orca doesn't > > appear to read i could possibly do it but without a family who > > are not linux users and with me not having a sighted partner or > > any sighted family member around looking at the pc or laptop > > screens for me i am only guessing there is this second dialogue > > appears before the actual upgrade is actually started. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:34:11 +0100 > > From: Glen Darby > > Subject: Accessibility Meeting > > To: Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > Message-ID: <1270103651.2237.10.camel at glen-desktop> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > Hi, > > I would dearly like to be involved in the meeting if it comes together. > > I work with disabled and have been trying to look for a linux type > > version of "EZ Keys" which uses a single switch to access the computer. > > > > I programme a little and pick up quite fast and would be willing to be > > involved in the project but would need advice on where to start etc. > > > > I would be free 11th, 12th, 17th, Between 11-2 on 13th, between 10-3:30 > > on 14th, between 9-12:30 on 15th. > > > > Any reply would be appreciated, even if you say it is not what the > > meetings for, just so I know. > > > > Many thanks. > > > > Glen Darby. > > > > > Hi, > > I would very much encourage this idea of Penelope, and would also be > glad to get more involved in reviving the team. > > kind regards > > leoquant > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFLtJPsbcC9IXrx7bMRAuxjAJ9dS24PjvqVbl8WQslIb719Ws6WBwCfUe1z > /iNAui9kE1MYAS8yL8pfB/c= > =6GEd > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vilmar at informal.com.br Fri Apr 2 12:03:32 2010 From: vilmar at informal.com.br (jose vilmar estacio de souza) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:03:32 -0300 Subject: no more login sound In-Reply-To: <4BB4FECC.5040804@informal.com.br> References: <4BB4FECC.5040804@informal.com.br> Message-ID: <4BB5DD14.9080901@informal.com.br> Hi I found the problem. The alert volume in the sound effects page of the sound preferences were to low. On 04/01/2010 05:15 PM, jose vilmar estacio de souza wrote: > Hi all, > Today, after I update my ubuntu 10.04 installation, the login sound no > longer is played. > after the login > > From waywardgeek at gmail.com Fri Apr 2 20:11:35 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 16:11:35 -0400 Subject: I think I fixed Firefox Message-ID: I've tracked down the structural navigation issue with Firefox and Orca, and submitted a patch to the Mozilla guys. I would like to go ahead and patch firefox and make it available through the Vinux PPA, so Vinux users can start testing it. Hopefully there aren't any more bugs in Orca navigation, and hopefully I haven't created any new ones! I'm keeping my fingers crossed. If it works out ok, I'd love to see Ubuntu Lucid's firefox get fixed as well. The bug report is at: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/process_bug.cgi Bill From vilmar at informal.com.br Sat Apr 3 05:20:35 2010 From: vilmar at informal.com.br (jose vilmar estacio de souza) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 02:20:35 -0300 Subject: [orca-list] I think I fixed Firefox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BB6D023.5030107@informal.com.br> Hi, When I click in the link to access the bug, the bug is not shown and I receive the following: You apparently didn't choose any bugs to modify. On 04/02/2010 05:11 PM, Bill Cox wrote: > I've tracked down the structural navigation issue with Firefox and > Orca, and submitted a patch to the Mozilla guys. I would like to go > ahead and patch firefox and make it available through the Vinux PPA, > so Vinux users can start testing it. Hopefully there aren't any more > bugs in Orca navigation, and hopefully I haven't created any new ones! > I'm keeping my fingers crossed. If it works out ok, I'd love to see > Ubuntu Lucid's firefox get fixed as well. The bug report is at: > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/process_bug.cgi > > Bill > _______________________________________________ > Orca-list mailing list > Orca-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. > The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions > Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp > From waywardgeek at gmail.com Sun Apr 4 10:38:08 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 06:38:08 -0400 Subject: Firefox patch, testing and further work Message-ID: I've uploaded a version of Firefox to the Vinux/Ubuntu Lucid PPA. Anyone testing Vinux 3.0 Beta should run 'sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade'. This should install the patched version of firefox for testing with Orca. Unfortunately, there are still some navigation issues with Orca. I find it works a bit better with "Grab focus on objects" disabled in the Firefox settings. If someone more familiar with Orca could look into the problems on the Python end, I'll support them on the Firefox C++ end. One example of a navigation goober is using Control+Tab to switch to another tab. Orca remains on the previous tab, and navigation keys just read old tab. Users more familiar with Orca than me could probably find more issues. Thanks, Bill From vilmar at informal.com.br Sun Apr 4 13:19:56 2010 From: vilmar at informal.com.br (jose vilmar estacio de souza) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 10:19:56 -0300 Subject: [orca-list] Firefox patch, testing and further work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BB891FC.90500@informal.com.br> Hi, Perhaps a dumb question, but is it possible to test in my 64-bit ubuntu lucid installation? Thanks. On 04/04/2010 07:38 AM, Bill Cox wrote: > I've uploaded a version of Firefox to the Vinux/Ubuntu Lucid PPA. > Anyone testing Vinux 3.0 Beta should run 'sudo apt-get update; sudo > apt-get upgrade'. This should install the patched version of firefox > for testing with Orca. > > Unfortunately, there are still some navigation issues with Orca. I > find it works a bit better with "Grab focus on objects" disabled in > the Firefox settings. If someone more familiar with Orca could look > into the problems on the Python end, I'll support them on the Firefox > C++ end. One example of a navigation goober is using Control+Tab to > switch to another tab. Orca remains on the previous tab, and > navigation keys just read old tab. Users more familiar with Orca than > me could probably find more issues. > > Thanks, > Bill > _______________________________________________ > Orca-list mailing list > Orca-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. > The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions > Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp > From hammera at pickup.hu Sun Apr 4 13:41:48 2010 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 15:41:48 +0200 Subject: [orca-list] Firefox patch, testing and further work In-Reply-To: <4BB891FC.90500@informal.com.br> References: <4BB891FC.90500@informal.com.br> Message-ID: <4BB8971C.5020909@pickup.hu> Hy Jose, Of course Yes, this is easy. You do following command if the vinux/vinux-lucid repository is not containing with your Lucid system: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:vinux/vinux-lucid After this, run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade command. With PPA repositoryes the build farm always maked an i386 and a 64bit build with uploaded packages if the debian/control file the architecture field is any. Attila From vilmar at informal.com.br Sun Apr 4 14:04:32 2010 From: vilmar at informal.com.br (jose vilmar estacio de souza) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 11:04:32 -0300 Subject: [orca-list] Firefox patch, testing and further work In-Reply-To: <4BB8971C.5020909@pickup.hu> References: <4BB891FC.90500@informal.com.br> <4BB8971C.5020909@pickup.hu> Message-ID: <4BB89C70.9010007@informal.com.br> Thanks. As I said in my message, a dumb question HEHEHE. It is installed. As a first observation, if I press h key and the tab key, the link focused is a link before the header. I am not sure if it happens in all pages but can be reproduced at http://schuchert.wikispaces.com/JPA+Tutorial+1+-+Getting+Started On 04/04/2010 10:41 AM, Hammer Attila wrote: > Hy Jose, > > Of course Yes, this is easy. > You do following command if the vinux/vinux-lucid repository is not > containing with your Lucid system: > sudo add-apt-repository ppa:vinux/vinux-lucid > After this, run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade command. > With PPA repositoryes the build farm always maked an i386 and a 64bit > build with uploaded packages if the debian/control file the architecture > field is any. > > Attila > > From tcross at rapttech.com.au Mon Apr 5 03:01:27 2010 From: tcross at rapttech.com.au (Tim Cross) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:01:27 +1000 (EST) Subject: espeak and pulseaudio Message-ID: <20100405.130127.726295733805625181.tcross@rapttech.com.au> I've recently spent time getting espeak working with emacspeak on a Ubuntu 9.10 system with pulseAudio. I initially had problems with the emacspeak espeak driver truncating speech, dropping words and occasional segmentation faults. I hought it was a problem with the tclespeak.so library used by the emacspeak espeak driver. However, I was able to reproduce some of the issues with the espeak program included in the espeak package. I downloaded the latest version of espeak from the sourceforge page and built it against the portaudio 19 libraries and experienced the same problems. I then re-built the libesepak and espeak programs linked against pulseaudio rather than portaudio by changing the defines in the espeak Makefile. This has resolved all the issues I was encountering and it has improved the quality of the speech that is generated. Although it took a fair amount of work to get a good pulseAudio configuration working, I now have a very functional setup. I now plan to get speech-dispatcher running. I have a few questions which I'm hoping others on this list can help clarify. 1. Given that ubuntu is moving to pulseAudio based configuration, why is espeak and libespeak still being built against portaudio rather than pulseaudio? Is this just to provide more flexibility an enable espeak to run on both pulseaudio and non-pulseaudio based setups or are there other issues with linking against pulseaudio that I'm unaware of and which might bite me further down the track? As it seems there are issues when running espeak built against portaudio under a pulseAudio configuraiton, is there justification for having two different packages, one built against portaudio and one built against pulse? 2. I've seen some posts regarding patches to speech-dispatcher and other related work and was wondering if I'm better off running with the ubuntu Karmic packages, sources from the 'official' speech-dispatcher repository or some other source? (I seem to remember seeing a reference to a separate unofficial speech-dispatcher bzr repository on launchpad, but don't have a specific URI). 3. I've seen lots of reports of people having major issues with running pulseAudio. While I found numerous issues with getting it to work well on my system, it now seems to be working really well. Have I just been extremely lucky or are all the reports maily the result of pulseAudio being a little complex to get working well or are there real issues I'm not aware of? Are there issues with using pulseAudio and speech-dispatcher? thanks, Tim From pstowe at gmail.com Mon Apr 5 16:24:08 2010 From: pstowe at gmail.com (Penelope Stowe) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:24:08 -0400 Subject: Accessibility Meeting In-Reply-To: <1270103651.2237.10.camel@glen-desktop> References: <1270103651.2237.10.camel@glen-desktop> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 2:34 AM, Glen Darby wrote: > > Any reply would be appreciated, even if you say it is not what the > meetings for, just so I know. To be honest, I want to partially hold a meeting so that we can figure out what people do want to do and what we can do as a team. For example, I feel like we need more documentation on the wiki, especially for newer releases. Also more documentation that puts in one place that's easily accessible (like the wiki) what the options are for different types of accessibility programs. Glen, I think what you're asking about may be a more upstream type project than one for Ubuntu, however, as a team we may have more resources for where such programs exist or where it's already being worked on that you could help out. I really would just like to see a more unified voice of what we want and a plan of action for what we can do both to fix things for ourselves and to get other people interested. Maybe we could work to get a Hug Day that focuses on accessibility bugs or something. I'm just throwing out ideas, anyway. I'm going to probably set a date and time tonight (so if anyone on the list who hasn't weighed in with a date and time, would like to, please e-mail them either to the list or me privately by about 22:00 UTC today. Once we have a date and time I'll send out an e-mail and blog about it. Thanks! Penelope From laura at lczajkowski.com Mon Apr 5 16:38:18 2010 From: laura at lczajkowski.com (Laura Czajkowski) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:38:18 +0100 Subject: Accessibility Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <1270103651.2237.10.camel@glen-desktop> Message-ID: <4BBA11FA.20006@lczajkowski.com> On 05/04/10 17:24, Penelope Stowe wrote: > On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 2:34 AM, Glen Darby wrote: > >> Any reply would be appreciated, even if you say it is not what the >> meetings for, just so I know. >> > To be honest, I want to partially hold a meeting so that we can figure > out what people do want to do and what we can do as a team. > > For example, I feel like we need more documentation on the wiki, > especially for newer releases. Also more documentation that puts in > one place that's easily accessible (like the wiki) what the options > are for different types of accessibility programs. > > Glen, I think what you're asking about may be a more upstream type > project than one for Ubuntu, however, as a team we may have more > resources for where such programs exist or where it's already being > worked on that you could help out. > > I really would just like to see a more unified voice of what we want > and a plan of action for what we can do both to fix things for > ourselves and to get other people interested. Maybe we could work to > get a Hug Day that focuses on accessibility bugs or something. > > I'm just throwing out ideas, anyway. > > I'm going to probably set a date and time tonight (so if anyone on the > list who hasn't weighed in with a date and time, would like to, please > e-mail them either to the list or me privately by about 22:00 UTC > today. > > Once we have a date and time I'll send out an e-mail and blog about it. > > Thanks! > Penelope > > I'm free any evening this week after 7pm UTC for a meeting Laura -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/czajkowski http://www.lczajkowski.com Skype: lauraczajkowski From waywardgeek at gmail.com Mon Apr 5 17:09:42 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:09:42 -0400 Subject: Accessibility Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <1270103651.2237.10.camel@glen-desktop> <4BBA11FA.20006@lczajkowski.com> Message-ID: So long as we'er putting ideas out there, I would like to bring up the possibility of using Vinux as a testing ground for accessibility. One of my goals in working with Vinux is to feed new technologies into ubuntu once debugged and proven. Bill On Apr 5, 2010 12:38 PM, "Laura Czajkowski" wrote: On 05/04/10 17:24, Penelope Stowe wrote: > On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 2:34 AM, Glen Darby From themuso at ubuntu.com Tue Apr 6 00:37:16 2010 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 10:37:16 +1000 Subject: I think I fixed Firefox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100406003716.GD1965@strigy.yelavich.home> On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 07:11:35AM EST, Bill Cox wrote: > I've tracked down the structural navigation issue with Firefox and > Orca, and submitted a patch to the Mozilla guys. I would like to go > ahead and patch firefox and make it available through the Vinux PPA, > so Vinux users can start testing it. Hopefully there aren't any more > bugs in Orca navigation, and hopefully I haven't created any new ones! > I'm keeping my fingers crossed. If it works out ok, I'd love to see > Ubuntu Lucid's firefox get fixed as well. The bug report is at: If you would like to see this addressed in Ubuntu, please file a bug against the firefox package in Launchpad. Luke From themuso at ubuntu.com Tue Apr 6 00:50:06 2010 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 10:50:06 +1000 Subject: espeak and pulseaudio In-Reply-To: <20100405.130127.726295733805625181.tcross@rapttech.com.au> References: <20100405.130127.726295733805625181.tcross@rapttech.com.au> Message-ID: <20100406005006.GE1965@strigy.yelavich.home> On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 01:01:27PM EST, Tim Cross wrote: > I now plan to get speech-dispatcher running. I have a few questions which I'm > hoping others on this list can help clarify. > > 1. Given that ubuntu is moving to pulseAudio based configuration, why is > espeak and libespeak still being built against portaudio rather than > pulseaudio? Is this just to provide more flexibility an enable espeak to run > on both pulseaudio and non-pulseaudio based setups or are there other issues > with linking against pulseaudio that I'm unaware of and which might bite me > further down the track? As it seems there are issues when running espeak built > against portaudio under a pulseAudio configuraiton, is there justification for > having two different packages, one built against portaudio and one built > against pulse? Espeak is built against portaudio v19 because it allows the espeak command-line binary to be used without the need for pulseaudio. Yes I am aware that portaudio isn't helping, but its better than no espeak command-line binary working at all unless you run pulse. Unfortunately its too late to address this for lucid, but I am seriously considering building two versions of espeak, one against portaudio, one against pulse, for lucid+1 and beyond. Ultimately I think espeak should move to a platform specific solution, i.e use the best liraries for individual platforms, but thats a lot more work. > 2. I've seen some posts regarding patches to speech-dispatcher and other > related work and was wondering if I'm better off running with the ubuntu > Karmic packages, sources from the 'official' speech-dispatcher repository or > some other source? (I seem to remember seeing a reference to a separate > unofficial speech-dispatcher bzr repository on launchpad, but don't have a > specific URI). If you are going to use lucid in the future, I suggest you use lucid's speech-dispatcher packages, as they have had a significant rework, in terms of pulseaudio output, and should work much better than the packages in karmic. > > 3. I've seen lots of reports of people having major issues with running > pulseAudio. While I found numerous issues with getting it to work well on my > system, it now seems to be working really well. Have I just been extremely > lucky or are all the reports maily the result of pulseAudio being a little > complex to get working well or are there real issues I'm not aware of? Are > there issues with using pulseAudio and speech-dispatcher? Pulseaudio has really pushed the boundaries in the last few years, exposing many bugs both in audio drivers, and in the userspace library layer. A lot of people have experienced teething problems, which are largely sorted now, except for a few corner cases with less common hardware. You shoudln't have any problems now,unless you are using hardware that has weird behavior, i.e Creative sound hardware, or pro audio sound cards. Luke From j.schmude at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 01:13:34 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:13:34 -0400 Subject: espeak and pulseaudio In-Reply-To: <20100406005006.GE1965@strigy.yelavich.home> References: <20100405.130127.726295733805625181.tcross@rapttech.com.au> <20100406005006.GE1965@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <4BBA8ABE.2040303@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 A question about this. Given that there's no official way to disable Pulseaudio in Ubuntu, why is it important that the espeak command-line binary work without it? Ubuntu seems to be going full-speed ahead with Pulse as the audio subsystem. I don't see any problem with that, but with this being the case why worry about things working without Pulseaudio? They sure haven't concerned themselves much about that in other parts of the system, i.e. GNOME no longer has a non-pulse volume control which means that you cannot adjust the volume without dropping to the CLI if Pulse is not running. Wav file generation from the command-line binary, if that's what you're worried about, will work with or without Pulseaudio being loaded, and the current situation hardly works when Pulseaudio *is* loaded which is most of the time. Can you clarify this please? On 04/05/2010 08:50 PM, Luke Yelavich wrote: > > Espeak is built against portaudio v19 because it allows the espeak command-line binary to be used without the need for pulseaudio. Yes I am aware that portaudio isn't helping, but its better than no espeak command-line binary working at all unless you run pulse. > > Unfortunately its too late to address this for lucid, but I am seriously considering building two versions of espeak, one against portaudio, one against pulse, for lucid+1 and beyond. Ultimately I think espeak should move to a platform specific solution, i.e use the best liraries for individual platforms, but thats a lot more work. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAku6ir4ACgkQybLrVJs+Wi6BpgCdF1/qgqHOnIcFBRAy50ySpvve oRYAnA774vNVQ/oWUf7TEExGZbzENiIn =e2GU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tcross at rapttech.com.au Tue Apr 6 02:19:55 2010 From: tcross at rapttech.com.au (Tim Cross) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:19:55 +1000 (EST) Subject: espeak and pulseaudio In-Reply-To: <20100406005006.GE1965@strigy.yelavich.home> References: <20100405.130127.726295733805625181.tcross@rapttech.com.au> <20100406005006.GE1965@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <20100406.121955.1570135797229156963.tcross@rapttech.com.au> > On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 01:01:27PM EST, Tim Cross wrote: >> I now plan to get speech-dispatcher running. I have a few questions which I'm >> hoping others on this list can help clarify. >> >> 1. Given that ubuntu is moving to pulseAudio based configuration, why is >> espeak and libespeak still being built against portaudio rather than >> pulseaudio? Is this just to provide more flexibility an enable espeak to run >> on both pulseaudio and non-pulseaudio based setups or are there other issues >> with linking against pulseaudio that I'm unaware of and which might bite me >> further down the track? As it seems there are issues when running espeak built >> against portaudio under a pulseAudio configuraiton, is there justification for >> having two different packages, one built against portaudio and one built >> against pulse? > > Espeak is built against portaudio v19 because it allows the espeak command-line binary to be used without the need for pulseaudio. Yes I am aware that portaudio isn't helping, but its better than no espeak command-line binary working at all unless you run pulse. > > Unfortunately its too late to address this for lucid, but I am seriously considering building two versions of espeak, one against portaudio, one against pulse, for lucid+1 and beyond. Ultimately I think espeak should move to a platform specific solution, i.e use the best liraries for individual platforms, but thats a lot more work. > OK, thats what I thought. I am quite surprised how much better espeak is performing and how much better the speech is now I've re-built against pulseAudio. I would agree that for pulseAudio based systems, a package linked against pulseAudio and one linked against portAudio for non-pulse systems would be the best way to go, though I can understand the additional work this will require and the problems that brings. >> 2. I've seen some posts regarding patches to speech-dispatcher and other >> related work and was wondering if I'm better off running with the ubuntu >> Karmic packages, sources from the 'official' speech-dispatcher repository or >> some other source? (I seem to remember seeing a reference to a separate >> unofficial speech-dispatcher bzr repository on launchpad, but don't have a >> specific URI). > > If you are going to use lucid in the future, I suggest you use lucid's speech-dispatcher packages, as they have had a significant rework, in terms of pulseaudio output, and should work much better than the packages in karmic. OK, I was going to upgrade to lucid as soon as it is released, so I'll go that way. I want to be using a fairly recent SD version as I'd like to investigate adding a SD module to emacspeak. I'm not sure how practicle this will be as the emacspeak 'protocol' is somewhat ad hoc and I'm not sure how well it can be mapped to what is required for SD. While I expect emacspeak's author will be open to suggestions regarding mods etc, a complete change is unlikely. At the moment, I'm working on another related project which I think will improve the support emacspeak has for different TTS backends and as part of that process, I'm trying to document the protocol. I hope to be in a better position to evaluate an SD interface within the next couple of months. >> >> 3. I've seen lots of reports of people having major issues with running >> pulseAudio. While I found numerous issues with getting it to work well on my >> system, it now seems to be working really well. Have I just been extremely >> lucky or are all the reports maily the result of pulseAudio being a little >> complex to get working well or are there real issues I'm not aware of? Are >> there issues with using pulseAudio and speech-dispatcher? > > Pulseaudio has really pushed the boundaries in the last few years, exposing many bugs both in audio drivers, and in the userspace library layer. A lot of people have experienced teething problems, which are largely sorted now, except for a few corner cases with less common hardware. You shoudln't have any problems now,unless you are using hardware that has weird behavior, i.e Creative sound hardware, or pro audio sound cards. > Just my luck, the three sound cards I have to work with are a Creative SB Audigy 4, an Audigy SE and an Intel HDA. The Audigy SE and Intel HDA are on a 64 bit system. I've got them working well with pulse (I added the sound developers PPA and am running the later pulse packages). The trickiest part was getting the sample rates and formats correct for the Audigy SE and getting everything to behave consistently re: two cards that would come up in different orders after a boot. The Audigy 4 (running Debian rather than Ubuntu) is working well, but I had to do a custom .asoundrc to get that working correctly. However, it is 32 bit and I'm not running espeak on that system (using the IBM TTS). For future reference, is there a site or some other resource that gives some indication of what sound cards are best or which drivers have the best support etc. I've looked in the past, but never found anything. I did find some info on Creative cards having problems with timer based scheduling etc, but I've not experienced any problems of that type. Settig tsched to off, as suggested in some docs, had no noticable impact. The most important change I made to pulse was to set the sample rate to 48k and change the format to s32le rather than s16le and ensuring pulse was running with high priority realtime scheduling. Once that was done, all has worked really well and I'm quite impressed with the functionality that pulse provides. thanks, Tim From waywardgeek at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 12:21:22 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 08:21:22 -0400 Subject: I think I fixed Firefox In-Reply-To: <20100406003716.GD1965@strigy.yelavich.home> References: <20100406003716.GD1965@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: Thanks, Luke. I will file a bug in launchpad. Unfortunately, while my patch fixes the worst structural navigation problems, there are still major issues. The Bookmarks dialog becomes inaccessible, and there are some other more minor navigation goobers. I think I'll need to dive into the code in more depth. Bill On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Luke Yelavich wrote: > On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 07:11:35AM EST, Bill Cox wrote: >> I've tracked down the structural navigation issue with Firefox and >> Orca, and submitted a patch to the Mozilla guys.  I would like to go >> ahead and patch firefox and make it available through the Vinux PPA, >> so Vinux users can start testing it.  Hopefully there aren't any more >> bugs in Orca navigation, and hopefully I haven't created any new ones! >>  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  If it works out ok, I'd love to see >> Ubuntu Lucid's firefox get fixed as well.  The bug report is at: > > If you would like to see this addressed in Ubuntu, please file a bug against the firefox package in Launchpad. > > Luke > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From pstowe at gmail.com Thu Apr 8 01:04:13 2010 From: pstowe at gmail.com (Penelope Stowe) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 21:04:13 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Accessibility Meeting: Tuesday 13 April at 21:00 UTC Message-ID: Hiya, So I looked at people's responses for times they could make and it looks like the time the most people can make is 21:00 UTC (22:00 BST) next Tuesday. The meeting will be in #ubuntu-accessibility on irc.freenode.net . If you wish to attend, but are unfamiliar with IRC, please let me know and I'll do my best to assist you with it! I will be setting up an agenda page on the wiki for this meeting and will e-mail the group with the link once it's up. Please feel free to respond to this e-mail if you have items you wish to have discussed or opinions on what we should be doing as a group (both broad ideas and more narrow ones are welcome). Two things I feel are important are starting to create some direction for the accessibility team and starting to create a blueprint and a roadmap for the project. I'm really hoping that we can get some things set enough that a session at the Ubuntu Developer Summit in May would make sense as I know several people attending, along with myself, who would be interested. I look forward to having as many of you as possible at the meeting! ~Penelope Pendulum on IRC From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Fri Apr 9 02:43:22 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 22:43:22 -0400 Subject: Netbook recommendations? Message-ID: I know this isn't an accessibility query per-se, but any suggestions of a netbook on which Karmic or Lucid will run well are appreciated. Thanks, Dave From david at rustytelephone.net Fri Apr 9 02:47:01 2010 From: david at rustytelephone.net (David Sexton) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 08:17:01 +0530 Subject: Accessible mail clients Message-ID: I am really getting fedup with evolution, which other mail clients are accessible with orca? David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tcross at rapttech.com.au Fri Apr 9 03:13:35 2010 From: tcross at rapttech.com.au (Tim Cross) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:13:35 +1000 (EST) Subject: Netbook recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100409.131335.700508606816799027.tcross@rapttech.com.au> Coincidentally, I loaded the Karmic netbook remix on an ASUS EEEPC last night. This was the 10 in screen version. The only issue I had was with the wireless. It has the RT9040 card and I needed to add a PPA to get that driver. I've not installed any adaptive tech stuff yet, but espeak appears to work fine. The 10 inch version seems more usable than the 7 inch version I did have. The keyboard keys are just that little bit larger. Batter life seems much much better than it was in the older model. At just under $300 Australian, I think its pretty good value. Now all I have to do is get it out of my wife's hands and I'll be able to see what its like with speech! I'm now a little less angry over the dickheads who broke into my house on Tuesday night and stole my old EEEPC! Tim > I know this isn't an accessibility query per-se, but any suggestions of a netbook on which Karmic or Lucid will run well are appreciated. > > Thanks, > > > Dave > > > > > -- From j.schmude at gmail.com Fri Apr 9 04:46:34 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 00:46:34 -0400 Subject: Netbook recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BBEB12A.4050109@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Dave I have an Asus Eee PC 1005PE and love it. It runs Karmic out of the box, though backported sound and wireless drivers need to be installed to get the best performance out of those devices. I tried upgrading to Lucid, but something went wrong though I suspect I just picked a bad time to attempt it and got a broken package or two. It has great battery life, runs the latest Atom processor, and is a very solid machine all around. The only downside is it comes with Windows 7 starter, but I just wiped it clean. hth On 04/08/2010 10:43 PM, Dave Hunt wrote: > I know this isn't an accessibility query per-se, but any suggestions of a netbook on which Karmic or Lucid will run well are appreciated. > > Thanks, > > > Dave > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAku+sSoACgkQybLrVJs+Wi6JPACfdZEy7FWHkXGlro6LxmUley1r 9RMAmgPWXm3o3+t6CarYO4SbRJ4MAnvk =AM0h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From waywardgeek at gmail.com Fri Apr 9 08:51:04 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 04:51:04 -0400 Subject: Accessible mail clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think I've read more positive comments about Thunderbird than anything else. Bill On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, David Sexton wrote: > I am really getting fedup with evolution, which other mail clients are > accessible with orca? > > David > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > From hgs at dmu.ac.uk Fri Apr 9 09:02:36 2010 From: hgs at dmu.ac.uk (Hugh Sasse) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 10:02:36 +0100 (BST) Subject: Accessible mail clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've not had chance to maintain this list in ages, but something useful may lurk here: http://www.tech.dmu.ac.uk/~hgs/e-mail/#clients I was not driven by accessibility when I wrote it, and use large print rather than speech, so YMMV. You might find the curses based clients such as Alpine accessible. Alpine isn't on there (yet), it's at: http://www.washington.edu/alpine/ Hugh On Fri, 9 Apr 2010, David Sexton wrote: > I am really getting fedup with evolution, which other mail clients are > accessible with orca? > > David > > From hammera at pickup.hu Sat Apr 10 15:06:45 2010 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 17:06:45 +0200 Subject: When I would like do USB startup disk and using Orca, my desktop is unresponsive when I click make startup disk button Message-ID: <4BC09405.7030901@pickup.hu> Dear List, In Lucid, when I would like make an USB startup disk with usb-creator-gtk application and Orca is running, if I click make startup disk button, at-spi registri crash happening and my desktop is unresponsive. In Vinux Mailing List Tony Sales and another users confirmed my problem in Lucid and Ubuntu 9.10, because he tryed what happening if Orca is not running before clicking the make startup disk button. If Orca is not running, at-spi registri is not crash, and usb-creator-gtk application is wonderful do the startup disk. If Orca is running when I clicking the make startup disk button, and at-spi registri crash is happening, usb-creator-gtk application copying I think 53 MB about 15 minute. I wroted this problem with a bugreport and wroted the reproducation steps: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/560069 Unfortunately apport-cli tool is not see any useful informations, but when I try logout normal with sighted assistance, in logout window seeing at-spi registri is crashed, and only possible logout with logout anyway button. Attila From j.schmude at gmail.com Sun Apr 11 02:43:08 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 22:43:08 -0400 Subject: notification area in Lucid? Message-ID: <4BC1373C.4090401@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all Well, I upgraded one of my machines to Lucid from Karmic. Long story short, the upgrade went seriously south. Somehow the upgrade managed to remove gnome-session, nautilus, and other essential packages. I got that all sorted out, but now I'm having a less serious issue. My notification area only has one icon, the network connections icon. The others I should have, specifically battery status, bluetooth, and volume, are missing. My question though is: are they really missing or is this a navigation issue with the notification area in Lucid or GNOME 2.30? I can't tell. Anyone else having notification area trouble or is this another thing that went south on my upgrade? If it's gone south, any idea how to fix it? I've checked all the icon preferences and they are still correct, so the icons should be there and maybe they are. Thanks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvBNzwACgkQybLrVJs+Wi66QgCdEUcodZrWYeaCSLzaf06UgZnC rbYAnio5PlTMxCYaeCGlm4FzjkBObmMB =uM5P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From j.schmude at gmail.com Sun Apr 11 02:52:00 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 22:52:00 -0400 Subject: never mind last msg Message-ID: <4BC13950.7020005@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all Well, that's life for you. I no sooner send a message asking for help than I find what I was looking for. Sorry about that. Anyway, I found them, they've been merged into the indicator applet. I must note though that this does have some rather serious accessibility concerns, specifically that once you keyboard navigate into the indicator applet you cannot get out without the aid of Orca's flat review. This was the case ever since the indicator applet was introduced but I never paid it much mind given that it wasn't ever used much before. This is easy enough to reproduce, arrow into the indicator applet with the right arrow then escape out. You'll be stuck between the indicator applet and the clock, and can't tab away nor can you press ctrl+alt+d or any other focus-switching keystroke. The only way I've found to get out is to right click with flat review then press esc. Once done, you're out of the sticky point. Speaking of the clock, I've noticed something not too pleasant about that too though this is most likely an issue in GNOME 2.30 itself and not Ubuntu specifically. The clock no longer reads the time, instead I just hear the "click to view your appointments and tasks" tooltip. This is less than helpful. And yes, I know about putting a script in orca-customizations.py, but that's not the point. Is this one an Ubuntu or a GNOME issue upstream? I suspect the latter but right now I don't have any other 2.30 systems to test it. Other than this though, Lucid is a much needed improvement on my netbook. In particular, without Hal polling the hardware all the time, my power consumption has gone down by 3 watts (a big deal on this netbook) and battery life has gone way up. I just might reach the advertised 14 hours now. :D -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvBOU8ACgkQybLrVJs+Wi5cFQCeLPg0uHslpU2Jzb7YtopV8H7/ ml4AnR2nMKWPTznS8CxY0Hxul8L4XvV+ =XqgO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rakesh_ambati at yahoo.com Sun Apr 11 05:17:57 2010 From: rakesh_ambati at yahoo.com (Arky) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 10:47:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: never mind last msg In-Reply-To: <4BC13950.7020005@gmail.com> References: <4BC13950.7020005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <677666.23975.qm@web94807.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- Speaking of the clock, I've noticed something not too > pleasant about that too though this is most likely an issue in GNOME 2.30 > itself and not Ubuntu specifically. The clock no longer reads the time, > instead I just hear the "click to view your appointments and tasks" tooltip. > This is less than helpful. And yes, I know about putting a script > in orca-customizations.py, but that's not the point. Is this one an > Ubuntu or a GNOME issue upstream? I suspect the latter but right now I > don't Hi, The clock is regression problem in newer gnome. You can track it here https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581351 Cheers --arky Rakesh 'arky' Ambati| IT Consultant| http://www.braillewithoutborders.org | Blog: http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Yahoo! Messenger. Download Now! http://messenger.yahoo.com/download.php From weavermicha at googlemail.com Sun Apr 11 08:48:33 2010 From: weavermicha at googlemail.com (michael weaver) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 09:48:33 +0100 Subject: lucid very promising Message-ID: <4bc18ab7.8507cc0a.7d04.ffffaea1@mx.google.com> after reading the latest posts about running ubuntu lucid with speech, i now have the beta installed on my laptop. it seems very promising with the login screen seeming to be more accessible and although i got a crash in it, it appears the ubuntu software centre also seems to work better with speech. however i have not been able to as yet access the wifi icon for networks so i am having to run my laptop off the ethanet cable for my bt router. From weavermicha at googlemail.com Sun Apr 11 09:24:23 2010 From: weavermicha at googlemail.com (michael weaver) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 10:24:23 +0100 Subject: ubuntu lucid Message-ID: <4bc1931d.8109cc0a.5802.ffffb044@mx.google.com> i have had a bit more of a look at the software centre in lucid and it just appears to say "image" so it may still be inaccessible when choosing software. From cesano at gmail.com Sun Apr 11 09:23:34 2010 From: cesano at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Cristian_C=C9SPEDES_O=2E?=) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:23:34 +0200 Subject: lucid very promising In-Reply-To: <4bc18ab7.8507cc0a.7d04.ffffaea1@mx.google.com> References: <4bc18ab7.8507cc0a.7d04.ffffaea1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, 2010/4/11, michael weaver: > after reading the latest posts about running ubuntu lucid with > speech, i now have the beta installed on my laptop. > it seems very promising with the login screen seeming to be more > accessible Could you tell me how to have GDM accessible? I have not been using Ubuntu for a time and I don't know if there have had changes in the procedure to run accessibility tools. We select that in the menu pressing F6 or is now GDM autommatically accessible out of the box without using F6 menu? If not automatically, why? Are there problems to do that? Have a nice day, Cristian From weavermicha at googlemail.com Sun Apr 11 14:18:48 2010 From: weavermicha at googlemail.com (michael weaver) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:18:48 +0100 Subject: backup problem in ubuntu Message-ID: <4bc1d81d.1090cc0a.0e70.ffffb88b@mx.google.com> i am having a problem backing up files using deja-dup which i have installed on my laptop with lucid beta 2. i get the error message "backup failed" and "this location is already mounted." i tried sending my backup to a re-writable dvd. what am i doing wrong or if this error message keeps coming up how do i resolve it? From linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com Sun Apr 11 16:44:05 2010 From: linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com (Alex H.) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:44:05 -0500 Subject: lucid very promising In-Reply-To: References: <4bc18ab7.8507cc0a.7d04.ffffaea1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I hope Lucid is as good as everybody says, Karmic didn't impress me and I've stuck with Jaunty. I'll try it out soon as I'm interested to see what's changed. On 4/11/10, Cristian CÉSPEDES O. wrote: > Hi, > > 2010/4/11, michael weaver: >> after reading the latest posts about running ubuntu lucid with >> speech, i now have the beta installed on my laptop. >> it seems very promising with the login screen seeming to be more >> accessible > > Could you tell me how to have GDM accessible? I have not been using > Ubuntu for a time and I don't know if there have had changes in the > procedure to run accessibility tools. We select that in the menu > pressing F6 or is now GDM autommatically accessible out of the box > without using F6 menu? If not automatically, why? Are there problems > to do that? > > Have a nice day, > > Cristian > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com Sun Apr 11 16:46:17 2010 From: linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com (Alex H.) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:46:17 -0500 Subject: ubuntu lucid In-Reply-To: <4bc1931d.8109cc0a.5802.ffffb044@mx.google.com> References: <4bc1931d.8109cc0a.5802.ffffb044@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, I know this isn't really a solution to the problem, but in my brief use of Karmic, I just used apt-get from a terminal to get apps or remove them. Still, that doesn't fix the not accessible software Center. At least Add/Remove worked.... Alex On 4/11/10, michael weaver wrote: > i have had a bit more of a look at the software centre in lucid > and it just appears to say "image" so it may still be > inaccessible when choosing software. > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From eduardgrebe at gmail.com Sun Apr 11 17:01:49 2010 From: eduardgrebe at gmail.com (Eduard Grebe) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:01:49 +0200 Subject: Dear All Message-ID: Is there an accessibility team on launchpad? How do you generally coordinate work and track accessibility-related bugs and feature requests? Best Eduard -- Sent from handheld - pls excuse brevity and bad typing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjk at teamcharliesangels.com Sun Apr 11 17:22:27 2010 From: cjk at teamcharliesangels.com (Charlie Kravetz) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:22:27 -0600 Subject: Dear All In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100411112227.54640bc8@teamcharliesangels.com> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:01:49 +0200 Eduard Grebe wrote: > Is there an accessibility team on launchpad? How do you generally coordinate > work and track accessibility-related bugs and feature requests? > > Best > Eduard > > -- > Sent from handheld - pls excuse brevity and bad typing. I just joined both the launchpad team and this mailing list. The references I have found on the wiki[1] appear to need to be updated, however, there may be some valid information. The launchpad team[2] does exist and does use launchpad to track bugs[3], with a couple of bugs in need of some help. I will be looking the bugs today or tomorrow. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team [2] https://launchpad.net/~accessibility [3] https://bugs.launchpad.net/~accessibility -- Charlie Kravetz Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/] Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com] From weavermicha at googlemail.com Sun Apr 11 19:10:34 2010 From: weavermicha at googlemail.com (Michael Weaver) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:10:34 +0100 Subject: wifi working in Lucid Message-ID: <1271013034.1905.3.camel@michael-laptop> Wifi Does appear to be now working in Lucid. After downloading the updates for Beta 2 I managed to locate my Wireless network icon so was able to enter my key for my wireless router. From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Mon Apr 12 04:05:35 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:05:35 -0400 Subject: Booting Asus EEEPC 111 HA from USB Message-ID: <4BC29C0F.5080708@verizon.net> Hello List! I Just acquired the subject netbook; it is equipped with Win XP home. In the Ubuntu community docs, it is suggested that hitting the escape key, during power-on, will bring up the list of bootable devices, from which I should be able to choose the USB stick. This does not happen. The machine boots immediately into Win. I've also tried using f2 to enter setup. My sighted helper has looked in the user manual for this machine, and can find nothing about how to get into bios setup. Thanks for anyy help! Best Regards, Dave Hunt From j.schmude at gmail.com Mon Apr 12 05:57:25 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 01:57:25 -0400 Subject: Booting Asus EEEPC 111 HA from USB In-Reply-To: <4BC29C0F.5080708@verizon.net> References: <4BC29C0F.5080708@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4BC2B645.8090201@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Dave You need to be quick, very quick, to get the USB boot menu. Begin hitting esc directly after you hit the power key, even before the disks start spinning. This is necessary to get past the quickboot feature which, if enabled as it is by default, skips much of the boot sequence and boots directly onto the hd. On some netbooks, such as the 1005PE that I have, it may take you several tries to hit it fast enough. That quickboot feature is very quick indeed on some models. Once in the boot menu, USB is the second choice so hitting down arrow once should get you there. Note. If you want to leave the quickboot feature enabled for use with Ubuntu, leave the EFI partition (Ubuntu installer sometimes says it's unknown) at the end of the disk in place. This is where the information for quickboot is stored. Otherwise, erase the partition and quickboot won't bother you again. Personally, I like quickboot as it does shave five seconds or so off of the boot process. However, if you upgrade the memory or otherwise change your netbook's internal configuration in any way, you'll need to erase and remake the quickboot partition so the new information can be stored there. hth On 04/12/2010 12:05 AM, Dave Hunt wrote: > Hello List! > > I Just acquired the subject netbook; it is equipped with Win XP home. > In the Ubuntu community docs, it is suggested that hitting the escape > key, during power-on, will bring up the list of bootable devices, from > which I should be able to choose the USB stick. This does not happen. > The machine boots immediately into Win. I've also tried using f2 to > enter setup. My sighted helper has looked in the user manual for this > machine, and can find nothing about how to get into bios setup. > Thanks for anyy help! > > > Best Regards, > > > Dave Hunt > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvCtkUACgkQybLrVJs+Wi5tXQCfTel6UGH73C+1JXA2qMje+HzF 08wAn1lNHy1vlY3McK2UTrzH2DkBzLf5 =Hz0y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tcross at rapttech.com.au Mon Apr 12 06:15:48 2010 From: tcross at rapttech.com.au (Tim Cross) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:15:48 +1000 (EST) Subject: Booting Asus EEEPC 111 HA from USB In-Reply-To: <4BC29C0F.5080708@verizon.net> References: <4BC29C0F.5080708@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20100412.161548.1632614999870496121.tcross@rapttech.com.au> Hi David, I recently installed ubuntu remix on an asus and initially had a similar issue. What I had to do was enter bios setup with f2, select the boot section of the bios, enable the usb stick as a second drive and set the boot order to use that drive to boot from before the built-in asus hard drive. Then save your changes and exit the bios. You may need to then reboot and the system should boot from the usb stick. If it still fails, you may want to try and verify the usb stick is correctly setup with a boot image. HTH Tim > Hello List! > > I Just acquired the subject netbook; it is equipped with Win XP home. > In the Ubuntu community docs, it is suggested that hitting the escape > key, during power-on, will bring up the list of bootable devices, from > which I should be able to choose the USB stick. This does not happen. > The machine boots immediately into Win. I've also tried using f2 to > enter setup. My sighted helper has looked in the user manual for this > machine, and can find nothing about how to get into bios setup. > Thanks for anyy help! > > > Best Regards, > > > Dave Hunt > > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From hammera at pickup.hu Mon Apr 12 07:03:06 2010 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:03:06 +0200 Subject: In future, not possible accept international keyboard combinations with now Disabled importanter GNOME keyboard shortcuts if accessible install is happening with access=v3 option? Message-ID: <4BC2C5AA.10303@pickup.hu> Dear List, Few days ago, Bill Cox, Anthony Sales and me talking following bigger longer time purpose: Now, when not accessibility specialized accessible Ubuntu based distributions installation is happening with access=v3 option (screen reader mode), lot of GNOME keyboard shortcuts is default disabled. We have got some ydea, with we don't no the Ubuntu-accessibility community accepts or not accepts: In longer time, possible very good purpose do international talked default define standard keyboard shortcuts with the default disabled GNOME keybindings: The big advantage with this purpose: In future, if a visual impaired user installing any Ubuntu based distribution with access=v3 option, this international standardized keystrokes setting during installation the target system, so, the keyboard shortcuts is equals with all Ubuntu based distributions if screen reader mode choosed during installation, independent the used language and used keyboard layout if this is possible. The minimal ydea standard keystrokes is following: 1. Now, in gnome-keybinding-properties preference tool, in accessibility section have following keybinding shortcut names: Toggle Screen Reader, Toggle Magnifyer, Toggle On-screen Keyboard. Need add following item: Launch Orca. This item is now missing. This new added keybinding command in future need run orca --replace command, and need define for example following general keystroke with this new item during installation with target system: Ctrl+Alt+o So, when this is happening, have a standard keystroke to restart Orca with any time with all Ubuntu based distributions. Luke, what GNOME module developers need do this feature request to add this now missing keybinding command name? 2. Need define importanter compiz-related disabled keybindings for example with Super+any keyboard commands, this is importanter with Compiz magnifyer users I think, but I not using Compiz magnifyer. Bill, complete you this part with your ydea? The bigger ydea, this is optional if the Ubuntu Accessibility community want: I think need define international standard keystrokes with following keybinding command names, this command names already part of gnome-keybinding-properties preference tool (not need do any feature request with GNOME developers), but now not defined any keybinding by default: Following keystrokes is only example keystrokes, based on Vinux actual keybindings list with GNOME section: Toggle fullscreen mode Control + Shift + F Toggle maximization state Control + Shift + X Maximise window vertically Control + Shift + A Maximise window horizontally Control + Shift + Z Launch calculator Control + Shift + L Launch e-mail client Control + Shift + E Launch web browser Control + Shift + W Home folder Control + Shift + H run terminal Control + Shift + T (I think now this command in Ubuntu default defined with Control+Alt+t) Note: I think need change the launch terminal and launch web browser example keybinding with Ctrl+Alt based keystroke, because ctrl+Shift+t is defined opening a new tab with gnome-terminal, and Ctrl+Shift+w keyboard combination closes the new tab in gnome-terminal by default. The technical specification with do this fix is very easy: This keybinding setting during installation is easy to do. When need define this international talked standard keystrokes during installation, in casper source package the ubiquity-hooks/30accessibility script in blindness profile section, this is easy to do when script do accessibility related configurations with target system. For example, I welcome working this fix with next developing cicle, if have a general Ubuntu-accessibility community accept keystroke list. Of course, this is longer time purpose if the Ubuntu-accessibility community accept this ydea (solid or bigger ydea), with sure possible do with next or next+1 Ubuntu final version. I hope this feature realizing with any developing cicle, but I absolute agree if the community not want this standardization. Attila From themuso at ubuntu.com Tue Apr 13 01:07:59 2010 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:07:59 +1000 Subject: Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher Message-ID: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> I am writing to announce a fork of speech-dispatcher, the open source text-to-speech framework, initially developed by Brailcom as a part of the freebsoft project, http://www.freebsoft.org. The fork also includes other important components of the speech stack, including speechd-up, the connector between speakup and speech-dispatcher, and the speech-dispatcher java bindings. As you may have guessed from the subject, the fork is now called OpenTTS. OpenTTS refers to both the speech server, API and documentation, as well as the umbrella project as a whole. The other projects mentioned above have also been given new names, speechd-up is now known as OSpeakup, and speechd-java is now known as OpenTTS-java. Why Fork Speech Dispatcher and Related Projects? One of the fundamental freedoms granted by the GPL is the freedom to publish one's modifications to the source code of a software product. Sometimes, such publication takes the form of a fork, in which the modified product is developed separately from the original. In this case, we've chosen to make forks of software initially produced by the Brailcom group. We'll describe our reasons for doing that below. The Brailcom group had a great idea. They wanted to provide a system or user-level service to control synthetic speech. That was Speech Dispatcher. They created libraries to ease the task of communicating with that service, so that it would be possible for programmers to speech-enable their applications , simply by calling output functions provided by one of these libraries. For several years, Brailcom actively maintained and promoted Speech Dispatcher and the software associated with it. They innovated, and the community at large was slow to adopt. Over time, projects within the accessibility community began to embrace Speech Dispatcher. It is now the preferred speech synthesis backend of the Orca screenreader. The Speakup screenreader can control many software-based text-to-speech engines with the help of Speech Dispatcher and a small connector program. One advantage of that strategy is that Orca and Speakup can cooperatively use the same text-to-speech engine. The key point is that many projects have adopted Speech Dispatcher, to a greater or lesser extent. As time passed, the tables turned. The most recent official release of Speech Dispatcher was made in the summer of 2008. The developers began taking less and less of a role in the project. The source code moved from a CVS repository to git in 2009. During much of that year, active development took place in a repository hosted by Luke Yelavich. Mr. Yelavich even produced several unofficial "release candidate" versions of Speech Dispatcher. Unfortunately, the official release process is stalled. In an effort to clarify the current status of the software, members of the community contacted Brailcom. Replies to these requests for information were somewhat non-committal. In effect, Brailcom stated that they were interested in developing Speech Dispatcher, but they had no current plans. That, in short, is why we forked. Members of the open-source accessibility community need and want an actively-developed speech framework. The OpenTTS project hopes to fulfill that need by carrying forward the vision set forth by Brailcom. The OpenTTS.org website is now live, although there is not much there at the moment. The site will be expanded in the near future to add areas for documentation, and feature specification tracking, to help developers better outline and indicate what the next release of OpenTTS will contain. You will also find a link to our mailing lists, where you can discuss OpenTTS development. We welcome all contributors from the community who wish to help us further develope the OpenTTS framework, and encourage any interested contributors to join the opentts-dev mailing list. To get more information on this list, or other lists relating to OpenTTS, please go to http://lists.opentts.org. We also especially welcome any Brailcom staff who wish to contribute to the project. I plan to announce the focus for OpenTTS development over the next 6 months very soon, and will do so on the opentts-dev mailing list (see above), and the website, so please stay tuned for more information. Should you have any questions, please feel free to subscribe to the opentts-users mailing list, and ask away. Commonly asked questions will be put up on the website for all to read. Finally, I'd like to thank Chris Brannon and William Hubbs for their hard work so far in helping get things off the ground, particularly with code cleanup and re-organisation. I would also like to thank all of those in the community who supported going ahead with the fork, you know who you are. I sincerely hope that from here on out, we can create a text to speech framework that can rival those available for proprietary operating systems, as well as creating a framework that all application developers feel comfortable working with. Text to speech is important for more than just those with a disability, it is very useful for many other people for many different tasks. Lets give them a reason to want to use it. Luke Yelavich OpenTTS project lead. From avalon at friendofpooh.com Tue Apr 13 05:09:40 2010 From: avalon at friendofpooh.com (A) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 08:09:40 +0300 Subject: Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher In-Reply-To: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> References: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: Who's project lead or is there a committee? Sorry but it is not obvious from the announcement who's having the final word on decisions. Thanks. On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: > I am writing to announce a fork of speech-dispatcher, the open source text-to-speech framework, initially developed by Brailcom as a part of the freebsoft project, http://www.freebsoft.org. The fork also includes other important components of the speech stack, including speechd-up, the connector between speakup and speech-dispatcher, and the speech-dispatcher java bindings. As you may have guessed from the subject, the fork is now called OpenTTS. OpenTTS refers to both the speech server, API and documentation, as well as the umbrella project as a whole. The other projects mentioned above have also been given new names, speechd-up is now known as OSpeakup, and speechd-java is now known as OpenTTS-java. > > Why Fork Speech Dispatcher and Related Projects? > > One of the fundamental freedoms granted by the GPL is the freedom to publish one's modifications to the source code of a software product.  Sometimes, such publication takes the form of a fork, in which the modified product is developed separately from the original. In this case, we've chosen to make forks of software initially produced by the Brailcom group. We'll describe our reasons for doing that below. > > The Brailcom group had a great idea.  They wanted to provide a system or user-level service to control synthetic speech.  That was Speech Dispatcher. They created libraries to ease the task of communicating with that service, so that it would be possible for programmers to speech-enable their applications , simply by calling output functions provided by one of these libraries.  For several years, Brailcom actively maintained and promoted Speech Dispatcher and the software associated with it. They innovated, and the community at large was slow to adopt. > > Over time, projects within the accessibility community began to embrace Speech Dispatcher.  It is now the preferred speech synthesis backend of the Orca screenreader. The Speakup screenreader can control many software-based text-to-speech engines with the help of Speech Dispatcher and a small connector program. One advantage of that strategy is that Orca and Speakup can cooperatively use the same text-to-speech engine.  The key point is that many projects have adopted Speech Dispatcher, to a greater or lesser extent. > > As time passed, the tables turned. The most recent official release of Speech Dispatcher was made in the summer of 2008.  The developers began taking less and less of a role in the project.  The source code moved from a CVS repository to git in 2009.  During much of that year, active development took place in a repository hosted by Luke Yelavich.  Mr. Yelavich even produced several unofficial "release candidate" versions of Speech Dispatcher. Unfortunately, the official release process is stalled. In an effort to clarify the current status of the software, members of the community contacted Brailcom. Replies to these requests for information were somewhat non-committal.  In effect, Brailcom stated that they were interested in developing Speech Dispatcher, but they had no current plans. > > That, in short, is why we forked.  Members of the open-source accessibility community need and want an actively-developed speech framework. The OpenTTS project hopes to fulfill that need by carrying forward the vision set forth by Brailcom. > > The OpenTTS.org website is now live, although there is not much there at the moment. The site will be expanded in the near future to add areas for documentation, and feature specification tracking, to help developers better outline and indicate what the next release of OpenTTS will contain. You will also find a link to our mailing lists, where you can discuss OpenTTS development. > > We welcome all contributors from the community who wish to help us further develope the OpenTTS framework, and encourage any interested contributors to join the opentts-dev mailing list. To get more information on this list, or other lists relating to OpenTTS, please go to http://lists.opentts.org. We also especially welcome any Brailcom staff who wish to contribute to the project. > > I plan to announce the focus for OpenTTS development over the next 6 months very soon, and will do so on the opentts-dev mailing list (see above), and the website, so please stay tuned for more information. Should you have any questions, please feel free to subscribe to the opentts-users mailing list, and ask away. Commonly asked questions will be put up on the website for all to read. > > Finally, I'd like to thank Chris Brannon and William Hubbs for their hard work so far in helping get things off the ground, particularly with code cleanup and re-organisation. I would also like to thank all of those in the community who supported going ahead with the fork, you know who you are. > > I sincerely hope that from here on out, we can create a text to speech framework that can rival those available for proprietary operating systems, as well as creating a framework that all application developers feel comfortable working with. Text to speech is important for more than just those with a disability, it is very useful for many other people for many different tasks. Lets give them a reason to want to use it. > > > Luke Yelavich > OpenTTS project lead. > > _______________________________________________ > Speechd mailing list > Speechd at lists.freebsoft.org > http://lists.freebsoft.org/mailman/listinfo/speechd > From j.schmude at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 06:13:02 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 02:13:02 -0400 Subject: speakup integration? Message-ID: <4BC40B6E.9070209@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all Are there any plans to have Speakup on the text-based installer disks in the future so as to facilitate the installation of Ubuntu Server, for example? There are speakup packages in Ubuntu and, while they're not the absolute latest git sources, they do compile and work fine even on the latest Lucid kernel. Could there be a move towards this planned in the future? The reasons Ubuntu dropped speakup several years ago were valid at the time, but perhaps it's time to reconsider it now. Not being able to install Ubuntu server independently is quite a disadvantage. Any thoughts? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvEC24ACgkQybLrVJs+Wi55hgCggZDt++MkUnDKfGNS5uZY6QuE dxgAn0d2Zevaz3Vm+MNeRUUeDdHQMm2x =iyhE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Tue Apr 13 07:41:01 2010 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:41:01 +0200 Subject: speakup integration? In-Reply-To: <4BC40B6E.9070209@gmail.com> References: <4BC40B6E.9070209@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100413074101.GF5162@const.famille.thibault.fr> Jacob Schmude, le Tue 13 Apr 2010 02:13:02 -0400, a écrit : > Are there any plans to have Speakup on the text-based installer disks in > the future so as to facilitate the installation of Ubuntu Server, for > example? Just to mention that Debian has speakup on its installer disks since Etch (along the graphical installer for space reason). So the code exists, just pick it up. Samuel From milton at tomaatnet.nl Tue Apr 13 09:33:23 2010 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (milton) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:33:23 +0200 Subject: speech in textconsole Message-ID: <1271151203.2556.4.camel@milton-desktop> Dear List, With Ubuntu 9.10 and Orca 2.30 working as an end user; entering a console with ctrl + alt + F1 and typing my username and password, how can I get speech in there? Thank you for your help. Regards, Milton From pstowe at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 13:21:30 2010 From: pstowe at gmail.com (Penelope Stowe) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:21:30 -0400 Subject: REMINDER: Meeting Today Message-ID: Hi, Just a reminder that there is a meeting today at 21:00 UTC (that's 22:00 BST for those of you who, like me, get confused during daylight savings time). The meeting will be in #ubuntu-accessibility. I look forward to seeing all of you there! Penelope From hammera at pickup.hu Tue Apr 13 13:38:49 2010 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:38:49 +0200 Subject: REMINDER: Meeting Today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BC473E9.60708@pickup.hu> Hy, Will be have a public log file after the meeting is end? Have a topic list? Attila From linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 13:50:30 2010 From: linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com (Alex H.) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:50:30 -0400 Subject: speech in textconsole In-Reply-To: <1271151203.2556.4.camel@milton-desktop> References: <1271151203.2556.4.camel@milton-desktop> Message-ID: Hi, You need to install something like Speakup or Yasr, which are screen review programs for the console. Speakup is definitely in an advanced stage and works quite well, and installing this is pretty easy in Karmic. Look at http://stormdragon.us and there's an article called Speakup Revisited this gives instructions for installing in Karmic. HTH Alex On 4/13/10, milton wrote: > Dear List, > With Ubuntu 9.10 and Orca 2.30 working as an end user; > entering a console with ctrl + alt + F1 > and typing my username and password, > how can I get speech in there? > Thank you for your help. > Regards, > Milton > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From pstowe at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 14:00:11 2010 From: pstowe at gmail.com (Penelope Stowe) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:00:11 -0400 Subject: REMINDER: Meeting Today In-Reply-To: <4BC473E9.60708@pickup.hu> References: <4BC473E9.60708@pickup.hu> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Hammer Attila wrote: > Hy, > > Will be have a public log file after the meeting is end? Yes. I'm either going to do a manual meeting log or if I have time today see if I can get MootBot set up. > Have a topic list? Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda Penelope From waywardgeek at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 17:01:08 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:01:08 -0400 Subject: [orca-list] Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher In-Reply-To: References: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: Luke is project lead, though I believe a couple of others may also have authority to commit changes. However, Luke has to date worked to form consensus on the opentts-dev mailing list before making significant changes. Progress in the last several weeks has been truly outstanding, and I for one am happy that opentts is in good hands, and that I probably wont have to go digging into this code anymore :-) Bill On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 1:09 AM, A wrote: > Who's project lead or is there a committee? Sorry but it is not > obvious from the announcement who's having the final word on > decisions. > > Thanks. > > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: >> I am writing to announce a fork of speech-dispatcher, the open source text-to-speech framework, initially developed by Brailcom as a part of the freebsoft project, http://www.freebsoft.org. The fork also includes other important components of the speech stack, including speechd-up, the connector between speakup and speech-dispatcher, and the speech-dispatcher java bindings. As you may have guessed from the subject, the fork is now called OpenTTS. OpenTTS refers to both the speech server, API and documentation, as well as the umbrella project as a whole. The other projects mentioned above have also been given new names, speechd-up is now known as OSpeakup, and speechd-java is now known as OpenTTS-java. >> >> Why Fork Speech Dispatcher and Related Projects? >> >> One of the fundamental freedoms granted by the GPL is the freedom to publish one's modifications to the source code of a software product.  Sometimes, such publication takes the form of a fork, in which the modified product is developed separately from the original. In this case, we've chosen to make forks of software initially produced by the Brailcom group. We'll describe our reasons for doing that below. >> >> The Brailcom group had a great idea.  They wanted to provide a system or user-level service to control synthetic speech.  That was Speech Dispatcher. They created libraries to ease the task of communicating with that service, so that it would be possible for programmers to speech-enable their applications , simply by calling output functions provided by one of these libraries.  For several years, Brailcom actively maintained and promoted Speech Dispatcher and the software associated with it. They innovated, and the community at large was slow to adopt. >> >> Over time, projects within the accessibility community began to embrace Speech Dispatcher.  It is now the preferred speech synthesis backend of the Orca screenreader. The Speakup screenreader can control many software-based text-to-speech engines with the help of Speech Dispatcher and a small connector program. One advantage of that strategy is that Orca and Speakup can cooperatively use the same text-to-speech engine.  The key point is that many projects have adopted Speech Dispatcher, to a greater or lesser extent. >> >> As time passed, the tables turned. The most recent official release of Speech Dispatcher was made in the summer of 2008.  The developers began taking less and less of a role in the project.  The source code moved from a CVS repository to git in 2009.  During much of that year, active development took place in a repository hosted by Luke Yelavich.  Mr. Yelavich even produced several unofficial "release candidate" versions of Speech Dispatcher. Unfortunately, the official release process is stalled. In an effort to clarify the current status of the software, members of the community contacted Brailcom. Replies to these requests for information were somewhat non-committal.  In effect, Brailcom stated that they were interested in developing Speech Dispatcher, but they had no current plans. >> >> That, in short, is why we forked.  Members of the open-source accessibility community need and want an actively-developed speech framework. The OpenTTS project hopes to fulfill that need by carrying forward the vision set forth by Brailcom. >> >> The OpenTTS.org website is now live, although there is not much there at the moment. The site will be expanded in the near future to add areas for documentation, and feature specification tracking, to help developers better outline and indicate what the next release of OpenTTS will contain. You will also find a link to our mailing lists, where you can discuss OpenTTS development. >> >> We welcome all contributors from the community who wish to help us further develope the OpenTTS framework, and encourage any interested contributors to join the opentts-dev mailing list. To get more information on this list, or other lists relating to OpenTTS, please go to http://lists.opentts.org. We also especially welcome any Brailcom staff who wish to contribute to the project. >> >> I plan to announce the focus for OpenTTS development over the next 6 months very soon, and will do so on the opentts-dev mailing list (see above), and the website, so please stay tuned for more information. Should you have any questions, please feel free to subscribe to the opentts-users mailing list, and ask away. Commonly asked questions will be put up on the website for all to read. >> >> Finally, I'd like to thank Chris Brannon and William Hubbs for their hard work so far in helping get things off the ground, particularly with code cleanup and re-organisation. I would also like to thank all of those in the community who supported going ahead with the fork, you know who you are. >> >> I sincerely hope that from here on out, we can create a text to speech framework that can rival those available for proprietary operating systems, as well as creating a framework that all application developers feel comfortable working with. Text to speech is important for more than just those with a disability, it is very useful for many other people for many different tasks. Lets give them a reason to want to use it. >> >> >> Luke Yelavich >> OpenTTS project lead. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speechd mailing list >> Speechd at lists.freebsoft.org >> http://lists.freebsoft.org/mailman/listinfo/speechd >> > _______________________________________________ > orca-list mailing list > orca-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. > The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions > Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp From nolan at thewordnerd.info Tue Apr 13 20:19:51 2010 From: nolan at thewordnerd.info (Nolan Darilek) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:19:51 -0500 Subject: Interesting Lucid regression Message-ID: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> Just took the plunge to Lucid today and am mostly impressed. It is hands-down the fastest release yet WRT speech. Furthermore, I'm glad that Thunderbird 3.0 is finally included, as I was running from the Mozilla daily PPA to get accessible 64-bit builds, which wasn't ideal for several reasons. I'm noticing an interesting regression, however. I installed Lucid on my netbook and everything went fine. I then installed it on my desktop, and now some formerly accessible things aren't, and some things that supposedly aren't accessible are. Let me explain. If I press alt-f2 I get nothing spoken. Alt-tabbing away and back speaks "Run application inaccessible." But I can't get anything to speak. If I press ctrl-alt-tab, I hear "top expanded edge panel inaccessible. Menubar." So immediately after telling me that it is inaccessible, Orca reads the contents just fine. I can also tab around and get speech feedback, more or less, with the exception of other regressions and issues that have been noted here previously. The main application menu is also inaccessible. I can't arrow around, hear things spoken, etc. Interestingly enough, I don't seem to experience any of these issues on my desktop. The major difference between the two is that the desktop is 64-bit while the netbook is only 32. Is there a 64-bit regression with some packages currently? Thanks. From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Tue Apr 13 20:45:21 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:45:21 -0400 Subject: Booting Asus EEEPC 111 HA from USB In-Reply-To: <20100412.161548.1632614999870496121.tcross@rapttech.com.au> References: <4BC29C0F.5080708@verizon.net> <20100412.161548.1632614999870496121.tcross@rapttech.com.au> Message-ID: <4BC4D7E1.7080608@verizon.net> Hello List! I have tyhe netbook able to boot from the usb, now. When I use a flash drive with the standard Karmic, I can boot, but am not able to do an accessible login. that is, the "enter, f5, 3, enter, enter" sequence, does not give me an accessible login with Orca talking. I can manually launch Orca. I'm taken through that setup. When asked to login again, I use "ubuntu", with no password. The login never happens. Once, the login happened, but I could not get speech out of Orca. In case it makes a difference, I used unetbootin to create the usb volume from the '.iso' image. Perhaps, I did something wrong in unetbootin? I find that program for Win almost inaccessible. Is there a beter utility? Is there a better Linux image I should use? Thanks, Dave On 4/12/2010 2:15 AM, Tim Cross wrote: > Hi David, > > I recently installed ubuntu remix on an asus and initially had a similar > issue. What I had to do was enter bios setup with f2, select the boot section > of the bios, enable the usb stick as a second drive and set the boot order to > use that drive to boot from before the built-in asus hard drive. Then save > your changes and exit the bios. You may need to then reboot and the system > should boot from the usb stick. If it still fails, you may want to try and > verify the usb stick is correctly setup with a boot image. > > HTH > > From quoteordersorders at penandpaper.co.za Tue Apr 13 11:19:38 2010 From: quoteordersorders at penandpaper.co.za (Leland Levine) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:49:38 +0530 Subject: thank you! Message-ID: <045959570.49235169337713@penandpaper.co.za> Look like a million dollars and impress your girlfriends, business associates and friends. 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URL: From hackingkk at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 17:22:42 2010 From: hackingkk at gmail.com (hackingKK) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 22:52:42 +0530 Subject: [orca-list] Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher In-Reply-To: References: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <4BC4A862.8080602@gmail.com> Before this gets into a long thread, can we please take this off the list? it was ok till announcements and congratulating the team but I think the discussion is not going with contect to Orca. Perhaps the blinux could be the proper place for this thread and further discussion. Happy hacking. Krishnakant. On Tuesday 13 April 2010 10:31 PM, Bill Cox wrote: > Luke is project lead, though I believe a couple of others may also > have authority to commit changes. However, Luke has to date worked to > form consensus on the opentts-dev mailing list before making > significant changes. Progress in the last several weeks has been > truly outstanding, and I for one am happy that opentts is in good > hands, and that I probably wont have to go digging into this code > anymore :-) > > Bill > > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 1:09 AM, A wrote: > >> Who's project lead or is there a committee? Sorry but it is not >> obvious from the announcement who's having the final word on >> decisions. >> >> Thanks. >> >> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: >> >>> I am writing to announce a fork of speech-dispatcher, the open source text-to-speech framework, initially developed by Brailcom as a part of the freebsoft project, http://www.freebsoft.org. The fork also includes other important components of the speech stack, including speechd-up, the connector between speakup and speech-dispatcher, and the speech-dispatcher java bindings. As you may have guessed from the subject, the fork is now called OpenTTS. OpenTTS refers to both the speech server, API and documentation, as well as the umbrella project as a whole. The other projects mentioned above have also been given new names, speechd-up is now known as OSpeakup, and speechd-java is now known as OpenTTS-java. >>> >>> Why Fork Speech Dispatcher and Related Projects? >>> >>> One of the fundamental freedoms granted by the GPL is the freedom to publish one's modifications to the source code of a software product. Sometimes, such publication takes the form of a fork, in which the modified product is developed separately from the original. In this case, we've chosen to make forks of software initially produced by the Brailcom group. We'll describe our reasons for doing that below. >>> >>> The Brailcom group had a great idea. They wanted to provide a system or user-level service to control synthetic speech. That was Speech Dispatcher. They created libraries to ease the task of communicating with that service, so that it would be possible for programmers to speech-enable their applications , simply by calling output functions provided by one of these libraries. For several years, Brailcom actively maintained and promoted Speech Dispatcher and the software associated with it. They innovated, and the community at large was slow to adopt. >>> >>> Over time, projects within the accessibility community began to embrace Speech Dispatcher. It is now the preferred speech synthesis backend of the Orca screenreader. The Speakup screenreader can control many software-based text-to-speech engines with the help of Speech Dispatcher and a small connector program. One advantage of that strategy is that Orca and Speakup can cooperatively use the same text-to-speech engine. The key point is that many projects have adopted Speech Dispatcher, to a greater or lesser extent. >>> >>> As time passed, the tables turned. The most recent official release of Speech Dispatcher was made in the summer of 2008. The developers began taking less and less of a role in the project. The source code moved from a CVS repository to git in 2009. During much of that year, active development took place in a repository hosted by Luke Yelavich. Mr. Yelavich even produced several unofficial "release candidate" versions of Speech Dispatcher. Unfortunately, the official release process is stalled. In an effort to clarify the current status of the software, members of the community contacted Brailcom. Replies to these requests for information were somewhat non-committal. In effect, Brailcom stated that they were interested in developing Speech Dispatcher, but they had no current plans. >>> >>> That, in short, is why we forked. Members of the open-source accessibility community need and want an actively-developed speech framework. The OpenTTS project hopes to fulfill that need by carrying forward the vision set forth by Brailcom. >>> >>> The OpenTTS.org website is now live, although there is not much there at the moment. The site will be expanded in the near future to add areas for documentation, and feature specification tracking, to help developers better outline and indicate what the next release of OpenTTS will contain. You will also find a link to our mailing lists, where you can discuss OpenTTS development. >>> >>> We welcome all contributors from the community who wish to help us further develope the OpenTTS framework, and encourage any interested contributors to join the opentts-dev mailing list. To get more information on this list, or other lists relating to OpenTTS, please go to http://lists.opentts.org. We also especially welcome any Brailcom staff who wish to contribute to the project. >>> >>> I plan to announce the focus for OpenTTS development over the next 6 months very soon, and will do so on the opentts-dev mailing list (see above), and the website, so please stay tuned for more information. Should you have any questions, please feel free to subscribe to the opentts-users mailing list, and ask away. Commonly asked questions will be put up on the website for all to read. >>> >>> Finally, I'd like to thank Chris Brannon and William Hubbs for their hard work so far in helping get things off the ground, particularly with code cleanup and re-organisation. I would also like to thank all of those in the community who supported going ahead with the fork, you know who you are. >>> >>> I sincerely hope that from here on out, we can create a text to speech framework that can rival those available for proprietary operating systems, as well as creating a framework that all application developers feel comfortable working with. Text to speech is important for more than just those with a disability, it is very useful for many other people for many different tasks. Lets give them a reason to want to use it. >>> >>> >>> Luke Yelavich >>> OpenTTS project lead. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speechd mailing list >>> Speechd at lists.freebsoft.org >>> http://lists.freebsoft.org/mailman/listinfo/speechd >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> orca-list mailing list >> orca-list at gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list >> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. >> The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html >> The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions >> Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines >> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org >> Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp >> > _______________________________________________ > orca-list mailing list > orca-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. > The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions > Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp > > From themuso at ubuntu.com Tue Apr 13 21:02:24 2010 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:02:24 +1000 Subject: Interesting Lucid regression In-Reply-To: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> References: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> Message-ID: <20100413210224.GA2172@strigy.yelavich.home> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 06:19:51AM EST, Nolan Darilek wrote: > If I press alt-f2 I get nothing spoken. Alt-tabbing away and back speaks > "Run application inaccessible." But I can't get anything to speak. > > If I press ctrl-alt-tab, I hear "top expanded edge panel inaccessible. > Menubar." So immediately after telling me that it is inaccessible, Orca > reads the contents just fine. I can also tab around and get speech > feedback, more or less, with the exception of other regressions and > issues that have been noted here previously. I ran into this a week or so back. It seems there is a race condition affecting the startup of the desktop. Some things are not starting till after at-spi has done what it needs to do to make thigns accessible. When it stopped for me, I thought that another update fixed it somehow. Now I know there is more than one person affected, I'll pursue this, and I should be able to get a fix in before the final release. I will file a bug, and let you know the bug number, so you can confirm this as affecting more than one person. I will probably also need your help in testing a fix. Thanks for bringing this up. Luke From nolan at thewordnerd.info Tue Apr 13 21:11:37 2010 From: nolan at thewordnerd.info (Nolan Darilek) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:11:37 -0500 Subject: Interesting Lucid regression In-Reply-To: <20100413210224.GA2172@strigy.yelavich.home> References: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> <20100413210224.GA2172@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <4BC4DE09.1060608@thewordnerd.info> Cool, glad that it isn't just me, or something botched in the upgrade. Orca started speaking another language halfway through and I thought that Ctulhu had me for sure. Speaking of oddness, this happens only on my desktop as well. For the first few seconds after logging into my desktop, my audio is horribly crackly. It sounds like an old arcade game or something, 8-bit and poor quality. It clears up fairly quickly, usually within a minute or two, but it's odd nonetheless. I do have a bluetooth headset which I occasionally use, and when testing speech-dispatcher I received errors about not being able to initialize that, so I wonder if this may be the cause? I've since deleted the pairing but have yet to reboot to see if that fixed it. In any case, I thought that I'd mention it in case anyone else may have noticed it. From j.schmude at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 21:44:23 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:44:23 -0400 Subject: Interesting Lucid regression In-Reply-To: <4BC4DE09.1060608@thewordnerd.info> References: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> <20100413210224.GA2172@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC4DE09.1060608@thewordnerd.info> Message-ID: <4BC4E5B7.4060509@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi I can confirm both issued discussed so far, though the audio crackling happens only on my netbook and not my desktop, and clears up within a second. I've done a little bit of investigating and it seems to be a resampling issue. Changing the resample method in Pulseaudio from speex-float-1 to speex-float-3 (the typical Pulse default) seems to clear it up. I'm not sure why this is affecting only one of my machines, and it definitely started with Lucid. The at-spi issue I'm having on all of my Lucid machines. Sometimes I have to kill X to log out several times before everything starts in the right order. On 04/13/2010 05:11 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote: > Cool, glad that it isn't just me, or something botched in the upgrade. > Orca started speaking another language halfway through and I thought > that Ctulhu had me for sure. > > Speaking of oddness, this happens only on my desktop as well. For the > first few seconds after logging into my desktop, my audio is horribly > crackly. It sounds like an old arcade game or something, 8-bit and poor > quality. It clears up fairly quickly, usually within a minute or two, > but it's odd nonetheless. > > I do have a bluetooth headset which I occasionally use, and when testing > speech-dispatcher I received errors about not being able to initialize > that, so I wonder if this may be the cause? I've since deleted the > pairing but have yet to reboot to see if that fixed it. In any case, I > thought that I'd mention it in case anyone else may have noticed it. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvE5bYACgkQybLrVJs+Wi6LAQCfSmcD9fnlUKadNpgt5N9TAIm2 XlkAn0k9R1ZX/FLhTZdmZ2xZr68ZXa87 =Dtng -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From themuso at ubuntu.com Tue Apr 13 22:24:24 2010 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:24:24 +1000 Subject: Interesting Lucid regression In-Reply-To: <4BC4E5B7.4060509@gmail.com> References: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> <20100413210224.GA2172@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC4DE09.1060608@thewordnerd.info> <4BC4E5B7.4060509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100413222424.GC2172@strigy.yelavich.home> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 07:44:23AM EST, Jacob Schmude wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi > I can confirm both issued discussed so far, though the audio crackling > happens only on my netbook and not my desktop, and clears up within a > second. I've done a little bit of investigating and it seems to be a > resampling issue. Changing the resample method in Pulseaudio from > speex-float-1 to speex-float-3 (the typical Pulse default) seems to > clear it up. I'm not sure why this is affecting only one of my machines, > and it definitely started with Lucid. > The at-spi issue I'm having on all of my Lucid machines. Sometimes I > have to kill X to log out several times before everything starts in the > right order. RIght, will let everyone know the bug when I have it filed. Luke From tcross at rapttech.com.au Tue Apr 13 23:51:42 2010 From: tcross at rapttech.com.au (Tim Cross) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:51:42 +1000 (EST) Subject: Interesting Lucid regression In-Reply-To: <4BC4DE09.1060608@thewordnerd.info> References: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> <20100413210224.GA2172@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC4DE09.1060608@thewordnerd.info> Message-ID: <20100414.095142.88549142762326518.tcross@rapttech.com.au> Your description of poor quality sound for a short time after you first login sounds very similar to the issues I had with portAudio initially. In my case it was because portAudio wasn't able to obtain high priority for its processes or use realtime scheduling. Given that in the first little time after logging in, your system is often doing a bit of work still setting things up and the load can be higher than average, this could be affecting sound quality if portaudio doesn't have the right scheduling privileges. Grepping for pulsaudio in /var/log/messages should tell you if this is the case or not. On my system, pulseaudio reports whether it has been able to obtain the necessary priority and scheduling privileges. HTH Tim > Cool, glad that it isn't just me, or something botched in the upgrade. > Orca started speaking another language halfway through and I thought > that Ctulhu had me for sure. > > Speaking of oddness, this happens only on my desktop as well. For the > first few seconds after logging into my desktop, my audio is horribly > crackly. It sounds like an old arcade game or something, 8-bit and poor > quality. It clears up fairly quickly, usually within a minute or two, > but it's odd nonetheless. > > I do have a bluetooth headset which I occasionally use, and when testing > speech-dispatcher I received errors about not being able to initialize > that, so I wonder if this may be the cause? I've since deleted the > pairing but have yet to reboot to see if that fixed it. In any case, I > thought that I'd mention it in case anyone else may have noticed it. > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From j.schmude at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 00:12:59 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:12:59 -0400 Subject: Interesting Lucid regression In-Reply-To: <20100414.095142.88549142762326518.tcross@rapttech.com.au> References: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> <20100413210224.GA2172@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC4DE09.1060608@thewordnerd.info> <20100414.095142.88549142762326518.tcross@rapttech.com.au> Message-ID: <4BC5088B.7080901@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi I can't speak for others, but portaudio isn't the issue on my particular system as speech dispatcher uses Pulseaudio directly regardless of whether Espeak is compiled for portaudio. Speech dispatcher obtains the audio data and sends it over the backend you specify. On top of that, I'm using ibmtts not espeak as my primary engine which doesn't touch Portaudio at all. As I said, on my system it appeared to be a resampling issue and changing Pulseaudio's resample method to one of slightly higher quality dealt with the problem, though why this only started happening with the new Pulseaudio in Lucid I've not been able to determine. On 04/13/2010 07:51 PM, Tim Cross wrote: > > Your description of poor quality sound for a short time after you first login > sounds very similar to the issues I had with portAudio initially. > > In my case it was because portAudio wasn't able to obtain high priority for > its processes or use realtime scheduling. Given that in the first little time > after logging in, your system is often doing a bit of work still setting > things up and the load can be higher than average, this could be affecting > sound quality if portaudio doesn't have the right scheduling privileges. > > Grepping for pulsaudio in /var/log/messages should tell you if this is the > case or not. On my system, pulseaudio reports whether it has been able to > obtain the necessary priority and scheduling privileges. > > HTH -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvFCIsACgkQybLrVJs+Wi5YHwCfaCY+raU25cWU/7NqVNTZRJ4R UgYAn23xxcjOl9tPskEVlGemeuqAttIU =ATuf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From phillw at phillw.net Wed Apr 14 01:05:59 2010 From: phillw at phillw.net (Phillip Whiteside) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 02:05:59 +0100 Subject: REMINDER: Meeting Today In-Reply-To: References: <4BC473E9.60708@pickup.hu> Message-ID: Hi, sorry I could not make it, if you would email to the group when you have the meeting log available. Thanks, Phill. On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Penelope Stowe wrote: > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Hammer Attila wrote: > > Hy, > > > > Will be have a public log file after the meeting is end? > > Yes. I'm either going to do a manual meeting log or if I have time > today see if I can get MootBot set up. > > Have a topic list? > > Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda > > Penelope > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.schmude at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 01:45:59 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:45:59 -0400 Subject: indicator applet? Message-ID: <4BC51E57.1000606@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Can anyone else confirm that, when focused, indicator applet locks the keyboard focus to the right half of the panel until you either click with flat review or the physical mouse to get out? Given indicator applet's increased importance in Lucid, can this be seriously looked into? It is, if not limited to my systems alone for some reason, an accessibility issue that seriously degrades the desktop experience. Thanks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvFHlcACgkQybLrVJs+Wi6oCgCeIm96wIuTwboZwlKqof5B7ETu GU8Ani+6K7NeyRVko2cpxGjAY3YYaisY =/iN8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nolan at thewordnerd.info Wed Apr 14 02:05:31 2010 From: nolan at thewordnerd.info (Nolan Darilek) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:05:31 -0500 Subject: indicator applet? In-Reply-To: <4BC51E57.1000606@gmail.com> References: <4BC51E57.1000606@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BC522EB.8020103@thewordnerd.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yes, I can definitely confirm it. This same behavior also exists in the applet that lets me lock the screen, log out, etc.--not sure of its name. Has anyone filed a bug on this? I've just been living with it, but you're right, it is more important in Lucid and having to right-click every time I want to check my battery status or whatnot is going to get annoying fast. If not, it would be great if earlier adopters filed these sorts of bugs. I honestly didn't see the point of this applet until today, and thought that it was a gnome-panel issue, but seeing as these two are the only applets which behave this way, that doesn't seem to be the case, and it's probably going to be tough or impossible to fix this so late. On 04/13/2010 08:45 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote: > Hi > Can anyone else confirm that, when focused, indicator applet locks the > keyboard focus to the right half of the panel until you either click > with flat review or the physical mouse to get out? Given indicator > applet's increased importance in Lucid, can this be seriously looked > into? It is, if not limited to my systems alone for some reason, an > accessibility issue that seriously degrades the desktop experience. > Thanks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvFIusACgkQIaMjFWMehWIAJgCeMqiKXQW5SiegdUXa4axlaWBs kRsAn25XDAOEOhhlkFLmuceshEZWyRCj =Cgen -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From themuso at ubuntu.com Wed Apr 14 05:01:10 2010 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:01:10 +1000 Subject: Interesting Lucid regression In-Reply-To: <20100413222424.GC2172@strigy.yelavich.home> References: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> <20100413210224.GA2172@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC4DE09.1060608@thewordnerd.info> <4BC4E5B7.4060509@gmail.com> <20100413222424.GC2172@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <20100414050110.GA17304@strigy.yelavich.home> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 08:24:24AM EST, Luke Yelavich wrote: > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 07:44:23AM EST, Jacob Schmude wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hi > > I can confirm both issued discussed so far, though the audio crackling > > happens only on my netbook and not my desktop, and clears up within a > > second. I've done a little bit of investigating and it seems to be a > > resampling issue. Changing the resample method in Pulseaudio from > > speex-float-1 to speex-float-3 (the typical Pulse default) seems to > > clear it up. I'm not sure why this is affecting only one of my machines, > > and it definitely started with Lucid. > > The at-spi issue I'm having on all of my Lucid machines. Sometimes I > > have to kill X to log out several times before everything starts in the > > right order. > > RIght, will let everyone know the bug when I have it filed. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at-spi/+bug/562776 Please add to the bug about your experiences etc. Its marked as a critical bug for 10.04, and the more people who weigh in that it is an issue, the more likely the release team will allow it to be a blocker for the release. Luke From j.schmude at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 05:03:53 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 01:03:53 -0400 Subject: indicator applet? In-Reply-To: <4BC522EB.8020103@thewordnerd.info> References: <4BC51E57.1000606@gmail.com> <4BC522EB.8020103@thewordnerd.info> Message-ID: <4BC54CB9.4060309@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/13/2010 10:05 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote: > Has anyone filed a bug on this? I've just been living with it, but > you're right, it is more important in Lucid and having to right-click > every time I want to check my battery status or whatnot is going to get > annoying fast. Searching launchpad turned up this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/+bug/334533 It was filed a while ago but activity on it seems to have gone dormant. Should we perhaps liven it up again? This is precisely the issue we're still experiencing. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvFTLkACgkQybLrVJs+Wi5rWgCfYh7ob54/IF32bSDlXOqk+mDc bjkAnRyM610r/Ad463QkTf8aIBWBze4P =dvPp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pstowe at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 11:07:37 2010 From: pstowe at gmail.com (Penelope Stowe) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:07:37 -0400 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs Message-ID: Hi, For all of you who missed the meeting, the full logs are now up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingLogs/20100413 I'll get minutes and other notes out later today. Penelope From waywardgeek at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 11:55:02 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:55:02 -0400 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the log. I agree 100% with Luke's goals for the next release. If it will help, we can do some early user-testing in Vinux alpha/beta releases based on the next Ubuntu release. I'll throw in two more wishes for the next release. First, can we bind starting Orca to Control+Alt+o, and have it work both at the gdm screen and while logged in? That way, blind users would be able to start Orca on a public Ubuntu machine. Second, would it be possible for Control+Alt+o to bring up Orca on the first screen of the Live CD installer, where we ask the user for his language preference? Now that this is a Gnome dialog, it may be possible. I'm willing to try and get this working if it's just a manpower issue. I think with Lucid Ubuntu has matched the best of the major Linux distros in terms of a11y, but with the changes proposed by Luke, it will have a clear lead. Kudos to Luke and the rest of the a11y team for an outstanding job on Lucid! Bill On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Penelope Stowe wrote: > Hi, > > For all of you who missed the meeting, the full logs are now up on > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingLogs/20100413 > > I'll get minutes and other notes out later today. > > > Penelope > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From themuso at ubuntu.com Wed Apr 14 12:37:52 2010 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:37:52 +1000 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100414123752.GC2139@strigy.yelavich.home> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 09:55:02PM EST, Bill Cox wrote: > Thanks for the log. I agree 100% with Luke's goals for the next > release. If it will help, we can do some early user-testing in Vinux > alpha/beta releases based on the next Ubuntu release. Feel free to do this if you wish. > I'll throw in two more wishes for the next release. First, can we > bind starting Orca to Control+Alt+o, and have it work both at the gdm > screen and while logged in? That way, blind users would be able to > start Orca on a public Ubuntu machine. Second, would it be possible > for Control+Alt+o to bring up Orca on the first screen of the Live CD > installer, where we ask the user for his language preference? Now > that this is a Gnome dialog, it may be possible. I'm willing to try > and get this working if it's just a manpower issue. Impossible to do unless at-spi is running all the time. I suggest you take that up with upstrea if you think it should be run 100% of the time in all user GNOME desktops. > I think with Lucid Ubuntu has matched the best of the major Linux > distros in terms of a11y, but with the changes proposed by Luke, it > will have a clear lead. Kudos to Luke and the rest of the a11y team > for an outstanding job on Lucid! Thanks, much appreciated. Luke From hammera at pickup.hu Wed Apr 14 15:20:33 2010 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:20:33 +0200 Subject: Interesting Lucid regression In-Reply-To: <20100414050110.GA17304@strigy.yelavich.home> References: <4BC4D1E7.8020701@thewordnerd.info> <20100413210224.GA2172@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC4DE09.1060608@thewordnerd.info> <4BC4E5B7.4060509@gmail.com> <20100413222424.GC2172@strigy.yelavich.home> <20100414050110.GA17304@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <4BC5DD41.20302@pickup.hu> Dear List, I think have an another possible critical important Orca or at-spi related bug, anybody try look this problem? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/560069 If Orca is running, impossible to use usb-creator-gtk application with Ubuntu Lucid. For example, this application is important if a netbook user would like do an installer pendrive from another machine if not have external CDRW drive. Now, only useful workaround to exit Orca before the user clicking the make startup disk button. Unfortunately, this problem is always reproducable my machine, but impossible to access need important crash related data, because apport-cli nothing see my machine with related this problem. I think Orca debug.out not showing any important information, I looked. Only interesting (newer I see) information is following after Orca spokening cancel button: ---------> QUEUEING EVENT object:children-changed:remove Entire debug.out after cancel button spokening string containing this line. Attila From etali at myth-games.com Wed Apr 14 15:48:51 2010 From: etali at myth-games.com (etali) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:48:51 +0100 Subject: Just joined, how can I help? Message-ID: <4BC5E3E3.6030707@myth-games.com> Hi all, I've just joined this list (thanks, Pendulum!). I saw the first half of the meeting last night, but had to skip out early due to a family crisis. Sorry about that! I'd like to help out in any way I can. I don't have any disabilities myself, but it's still an issue I care about. I used to work with people with mobility issues, and I have friends that are partially sighted. This is just a quick "hello", I'm off to read the minutes now, and I hope I can help out in some way. Best Regards, -- Lesley Harrison From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Wed Apr 14 15:51:21 2010 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:51:21 +0200 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100414155121.GO5023@const.bordeaux.inria.fr> Bill Cox, le Wed 14 Apr 2010 07:55:02 -0400, a écrit : > I'll throw in two more wishes for the next release. First, can we > bind starting Orca to Control+Alt+o, Control-alt-o may not be the best choice. Sure, it makes sense for "O"rca, but what if a distro wants to ship another screen reader ? Ideally the shortcut shouldn't depend on a particular project name, but rather on the kind of effect you want: if you want speech, e.g. ctrl-alt-s. I've been thinking about trying to standardize shortcuts, so that you wouldn't even have to know whether the public box is windows, linux, darwin, or their respective installers, etc. Samuel From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Wed Apr 14 16:23:44 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:23:44 -0400 Subject: Accessible Ubuntu Install Impossible on Asus Netbook Message-ID: <4BC5EC10.3000106@verizon.net> Hi, List! I've tried various flavors of Ubuntu on this machine, with none of which can I get an accessible install. I made the usb install media with unetbootin in Windows. When I boot any of them, I do not get a chance to choose language, accessibility options, etc. Rather, they boot directly into Ubuntu desktop. If I start Orca, I'm taken through that setup. After setup, I log back in as ubuntu, with no password. Orca will not start automatically, no matter the setting of this option in setup. Once orca is starrted, I try the installer. The installer comes up as inaccesible to Orca. The rest of the desktop works as expected. I had none of this trouble when booting from cdrom. From j.schmude at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 16:29:40 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:29:40 -0400 Subject: Accessible Ubuntu Install Impossible on Asus Netbook In-Reply-To: <4BC5EC10.3000106@verizon.net> References: <4BC5EC10.3000106@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4BC5ED74.8060108@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Dave This sounds like a problem with the way unetbootin creates the USB stick's boot loader configuration. I can tell you from experience that USB boot drives created with Ubuntu's USB creator work fine and have the boot sequence you'd expect from the CD. Why not create your Ubuntu USB drive with that tool instead? There is, of course, also the option of getting an external CD or DVD drive if nothing else works for you and you can't use Ubuntu's usb-creator for some reason. On 04/14/2010 12:23 PM, Dave Hunt wrote: > Hi, List! > > I've tried various flavors of Ubuntu on this machine, with none of which > can I get an accessible install. I made the usb install media with > unetbootin in Windows. When I boot any of them, I do not get a chance > to choose language, accessibility options, etc. Rather, they boot > directly into Ubuntu desktop. If I start Orca, I'm taken through that > setup. After setup, I log back in as ubuntu, with no password. Orca > will not start automatically, no matter the setting of this option in > setup. Once orca is starrted, I try the installer. The installer comes > up as inaccesible to Orca. The rest of the desktop works as expected. > I had none of this trouble when booting from cdrom. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvF7XMACgkQybLrVJs+Wi4atQCggOhJX6bjvx0aGnyovkA34MeQ lSsAnA2VS1rBfnFT92G+or1EqOFdJsO+ =EvJ8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 16:31:08 2010 From: linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com (Alex H.) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:31:08 -0500 Subject: Accessible Ubuntu Install Impossible on Asus Netbook In-Reply-To: <4BC5EC10.3000106@verizon.net> References: <4BC5EC10.3000106@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Dave, This might be possible depending on if you have an external USB disk drive. Maybe install Ubuntu with the external drive to the netbook? Alex On 4/14/10, Dave Hunt wrote: > Hi, List! > > I've tried various flavors of Ubuntu on this machine, with none of which > can I get an accessible install. I made the usb install media with > unetbootin in Windows. When I boot any of them, I do not get a chance > to choose language, accessibility options, etc. Rather, they boot > directly into Ubuntu desktop. If I start Orca, I'm taken through that > setup. After setup, I log back in as ubuntu, with no password. Orca > will not start automatically, no matter the setting of this option in > setup. Once orca is starrted, I try the installer. The installer comes > up as inaccesible to Orca. The rest of the desktop works as expected. > I had none of this trouble when booting from cdrom. > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From j.schmude at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 17:53:04 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:53:04 -0400 Subject: Accessible Ubuntu Install Impossible on Asus Netbook In-Reply-To: <4BC6004A.5020507@verizon.net> References: <4BC5EC10.3000106@verizon.net> <4BC5ED74.8060108@gmail.com> <4BC6004A.5020507@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4BC60100.90609@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Dave I've only used the Linux version of Ubuntu's USB creator, so don't know about the Windows version. However, do you have another computer at your disposal? You should be able to boot off the Live CD and use the Linux version of the usb creator from there. On 04/14/2010 01:50 PM, Dave Hunt wrote: > Hello! > > Thanks for replying so promptly. > > I have only Windows at my disposal. There is a Windows version of > Ubuntu's usb disk creator app, but I cannot use it. When I select the > source image, usb target, and whether to leave room for persistent > storage, there is no way to tell the app to proceed with making the > bootable disk. Only available option is to quit. Also, My selection of > source is undone as soon as I either move off the list, or hit the > 'open' button. > > > Best, Dave > > > On 4/14/2010 12:29 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote: > Hi Dave > This sounds like a problem with the way unetbootin creates the USB > stick's boot loader configuration. I can tell you from experience that > USB boot drives created with Ubuntu's USB creator work fine and have the > boot sequence you'd expect from the CD. Why not create your Ubuntu USB > drive with that tool instead? > There is, of course, also the option of getting an external CD or DVD > drive if nothing else works for you and you can't use Ubuntu's > usb-creator for some reason. > > > On 04/14/2010 12:23 PM, Dave Hunt wrote: > >>>> Hi, List! >>>> >>>> I've tried various flavors of Ubuntu on this machine, with none of which >>>> can I get an accessible install. I made the usb install media with >>>> unetbootin in Windows. When I boot any of them, I do not get a chance >>>> to choose language, accessibility options, etc. Rather, they boot >>>> directly into Ubuntu desktop. If I start Orca, I'm taken through that >>>> setup. After setup, I log back in as ubuntu, with no password. Orca >>>> will not start automatically, no matter the setting of this option in >>>> setup. Once orca is starrted, I try the installer. The installer comes >>>> up as inaccesible to Orca. The rest of the desktop works as expected. >>>> I had none of this trouble when booting from cdrom. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvGAQAACgkQybLrVJs+Wi5pLQCcDV6lMADqm7c9lC51Gky8Bs1i j2cAoIH5+95Tf8m+2lLuBzWL1oG4R9ud =Cni2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From waywardgeek at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 19:07:40 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:07:40 -0400 Subject: Just joined, how can I help? In-Reply-To: <4BC5E3E3.6030707@myth-games.com> References: <4BC5E3E3.6030707@myth-games.com> Message-ID: Hi, Lesley. There's tons of work to do if you want to dive in and get your hands dirty, especially down in the code. Let me know if you're able to fix bugs in C, C++, or Python, as that's where a lot of issues are. There's also a need for writers to make tutorials and such. I do my contributions over in the Vinux distro, which lately is being built on Ubuntu Lucid. My thought is that we can patch and user-test code over there, and when we have something that works reliably, we can try and get Ubuntu to pick it up. Regards, Bill From francesco.fumanti at gmx.net Wed Apr 14 19:33:33 2010 From: francesco.fumanti at gmx.net (Francesco Fumanti) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:33:33 +0200 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs In-Reply-To: <20100414123752.GC2139@strigy.yelavich.home> References: <20100414123752.GC2139@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <4BC6188D.1070202@gmx.net> Hi, I just read rapidly the meeting logs and would like to give a few comments: Concerning the different accessibility groups, the "mouse controlled computer" might need some refinement: (I am talking here about users that are not able to use a hardware keyboard.) - Users that can move the pointer and can click. These users are already well served by onboard during GDM and during the desktop session. (Apart some situations, where the onscreen keyboard onboard is not available; for example, when switching to a virtual terminal where they will be stuck.) These users do not even need at-spi. - Users that can move the pointer but are not able to click. It is possible for these users to access the computer by using the dwell click provided by mousetweaks. Onboard, in conjunction with the dwell click of mousetweaks provide a solution for these users. Unfortunately, it is not accessible out of the box yet: -- Currently, it is not possible to start the dwell click during GDM. A patch to change this has been proposed upstream in GNOME, but it has not been included in the release yet. -- The first time the user enters the desktop session, he has no way to start dwelling without clicking. Either somebody turns it on and leaves it always running, or somebody installs the dwell click applet, that is part of mousetweaks, on the GNOME panel. The dwell click applet offers a button that stars and stops dwelling by hovering with the pointer over it. mousetweaks needs at-spi. - Users that can only use switches. (no keyboard and no mouse) Though these users are currently targeted by GOK that also counts as an onscreen keyboard (or Caribou that is planned as replacement of GOK in GNOME), I don't see these users as belonging to the mouse controlled computer category; I think that they deserve an own "switch users" category. But maybe, during the meeting the switch users were meant as users that use switches to move the pointer. Unfortunately, I don't really know how switch users control the computer. (Onboard does not provide any switch access.) Il 14/04/2010 14:37, Luke Yelavich ha scritto: > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 09:55:02PM EST, Bill Cox wrote: >> I'll throw in two more wishes for the next release. First, can we >> bind starting Orca to Control+Alt+o, and have it work both at the >> gdm screen and while logged in? That way, blind users would be >> able to start Orca on a public Ubuntu machine. Second, would it be >> possible for Control+Alt+o to bring up Orca on the first screen of >> the Live CD installer, where we ask the user for his language >> preference? Now that this is a Gnome dialog, it may be possible. >> I'm willing to try and get this working if it's just a manpower >> issue. > > Impossible to do unless at-spi is running all the time. I suggest you > take that up with upstrea if you think it should be run 100% of the > time in all user GNOME desktops. Due to incompatibility of at-spi with gksu, I wonder whether it would make sense to create a goal for lucid+1 to eliminate gksu from the distribution. This would at least remove part of the bugs caused by at-spi until at-spi2 takes over. For example, when starting the Synaptic Package Manager from the Administration menu while an application is actively using at-spi, the desktop becomes unresponsive. Some weeks ago, I started a thread about it on the devel discussion list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-March/010770.html Hoping to have been helpful, Francesco. From waywardgeek at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 19:52:24 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:52:24 -0400 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs In-Reply-To: <4BC6188D.1070202@gmx.net> References: <20100414123752.GC2139@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC6188D.1070202@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Francesco Fumanti wrote: > Due to incompatibility of at-spi with gksu, I wonder whether it would make sense to create a goal for lucid+1 to eliminate gksu from the distribution. This would at least remove part of the bugs caused by at-spi until at-spi2 takes over. For example, when starting the Synaptic Package Manager from the Administration menu while an application is actively using at-spi, the desktop becomes unresponsive. Some weeks ago, I started a thread about it on the devel discussion list: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-March/010770.html In general, I think it is difficult to properly maintain both gksu and sudo independently. It's hard enough to keep sudo working with Orca, and gksu has not worked with Orca since I've been involved. My preference, not just for accessibility, but also for security, is to just have sudo, and make gksu a simple GDK wrapper for sudo. For Vinux, I wrote a simple wrapper script using zenity to replace gksu, and it seems to be working well. However, it's not good enough for distributions for sighted users. I was thinking of trying to write a better sudo wrapper in Python, so we could support all of the gksu options. I also looked into the gksu source code, but I have to admit getting frustrated at the complexity, and ending up thinking gksu should have stayed as a simple wrapper. Bill From j.schmude at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 20:20:06 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:20:06 -0400 Subject: temporary work-around for indicator-applet focus lock Message-ID: <4BC62376.3010003@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all Well, I feel foolish for not trying this earlier, but I've found another way to unlock focus from the indicator-applet without flat review or the mouse. Press the context menu key or shift+f10 on any icon you can land on, I usually just do it on indicator applet. This does the same as right clicking and pulls open the context menu, and unlocks keyboard focus just as if you right clicked. It's still not an ideal solution but it does make things easier for now. I really feel like I should have made that connection sooner (I use that key all the time), but ah well. :) hth -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvGI3YACgkQybLrVJs+Wi6xIgCfW3tKoo7b0DygSqNJMGbeAAAS tt0An3mTaF9wfqAlHgzQQMZMM6JEYwff =uOhp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cjk at teamcharliesangels.com Wed Apr 14 20:22:28 2010 From: cjk at teamcharliesangels.com (Charlie Kravetz) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:22:28 -0600 Subject: An introduction to the mailing list Message-ID: <20100414142228.79d717d5@teamcharliesangels.com> Well, let me introduce myself to this list. Some of you already me. I am that irritating sob that keeps asking you to send more information or confirm something in those bug reports. I do not program and am not a developer. I triage bugs. Basically, that means I attempt to get a bug ready for a developer to work. I also push to get accessibility issues exposure and to get the bugs worked as soon as possible. I have looked at the bugs listed for the accessibility team in launchpad, and confirmed what could be. I am now looking at the bugs in 'at-spi'. What a deal. If you want to hide a bug, assign it to at-spi! Yes, some of these are old, up to three years! Yes, I am asking for information before closing them. They might still be valid, and if they are, lets try to get them fixed. I do have to question why the launchpad accessibility is not subscribed automatically to 'at-spi'? This should be a package that this team is very concerned with. Well, I will ask for patience, please. I am new at trying to triage these issues, and will try to reproduce them to confirm and push the bugs, if you tell how to reproduce them. When filing the report, an explanation of how to reproduce the issue, if possible, helps a lot. Thanks for all that is being done. I will try my best to help out here. -- Charlie Kravetz Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/] Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com] From francesco.fumanti at gmx.net Wed Apr 14 20:25:55 2010 From: francesco.fumanti at gmx.net (Francesco Fumanti) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:25:55 +0200 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs In-Reply-To: References: <20100414123752.GC2139@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC6188D.1070202@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4BC624D3.8000903@gmx.net> Hi, Thanks for your reply. Il 14/04/2010 21:52, Bill Cox ha scritto: > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Francesco Fumanti > wrote: >> Due to incompatibility of at-spi with gksu, I wonder whether it would make sense to create a goal for lucid+1 to eliminate gksu from the distribution. This would at least remove part of the bugs caused by at-spi until at-spi2 takes over. For example, when starting the Synaptic Package Manager from the Administration menu while an application is actively using at-spi, the desktop becomes unresponsive. Some weeks ago, I started a thread about it on the devel discussion list: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-March/010770.html > > In general, I think it is difficult to properly maintain both gksu and > sudo independently. It's hard enough to keep sudo working with Orca, > and gksu has not worked with Orca since I've been involved. My > preference, not just for accessibility, but also for security, is to > just have sudo, and make gksu a simple GDK wrapper for sudo. For > Vinux, I wrote a simple wrapper script using zenity to replace gksu, > and it seems to be working well. However, it's not good enough for > distributions for sighted users. I was thinking of trying to write a > better sudo wrapper in Python, so we could support all of the gksu > options. That would be great; maybe even better than using gksu-polkit, something that I tried a few weeks ago. > I also looked into the gksu source code, but I have to admit > getting frustrated at the complexity, and ending up thinking gksu > should have stayed as a simple wrapper. As far as I understand, the ideal solution at least from the point of view of a mouse only user, would probably be to enhance the applications that need root privileges to directly use policykit to get root privileges when they needed it. (instead of running as root all the time through gksu) At some point, I hoped to be able to replace gksu with gksu-polkit (as a workaround by replacing gksu with gksu-polkit in the desktop file of the Synaptic Package Manager, Gparted,...); but unfortunately, gksu-polkit is not working properly in Ubuntu. What do you think about gksu-polkit? Cheers Francesco From francesco.fumanti at gmx.net Wed Apr 14 20:28:33 2010 From: francesco.fumanti at gmx.net (Francesco Fumanti) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:28:33 +0200 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs (forgot links) In-Reply-To: References: <20100414123752.GC2139@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC6188D.1070202@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4BC62571.3070104@gmx.net> Hi, Thanks for your reply. Il 14/04/2010 21:52, Bill Cox ha scritto: > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Francesco Fumanti > wrote: >> Due to incompatibility of at-spi with gksu, I wonder whether it would make sense to create a goal for lucid+1 to eliminate gksu from the distribution. This would at least remove part of the bugs caused by at-spi until at-spi2 takes over. For example, when starting the Synaptic Package Manager from the Administration menu while an application is actively using at-spi, the desktop becomes unresponsive. Some weeks ago, I started a thread about it on the devel discussion list: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-March/010770.html > > In general, I think it is difficult to properly maintain both gksu and > sudo independently. It's hard enough to keep sudo working with Orca, > and gksu has not worked with Orca since I've been involved. My > preference, not just for accessibility, but also for security, is to > just have sudo, and make gksu a simple GDK wrapper for sudo. For > Vinux, I wrote a simple wrapper script using zenity to replace gksu, > and it seems to be working well. However, it's not good enough for > distributions for sighted users. I was thinking of trying to write a > better sudo wrapper in Python, so we could support all of the gksu > options. That would be great; maybe even better than using gksu-polkit, something that I tried a few weeks ago. > I also looked into the gksu source code, but I have to admit > getting frustrated at the complexity, and ending up thinking gksu > should have stayed as a simple wrapper. As far as I understand, the ideal solution at least from the point of view of a mouse only user, would probably be to enhance the applications that need root privileges to directly use policykit to get root privileges when they needed it. (instead of running as root all the time through gksu) At some point, I hoped to be able to replace gksu with gksu-polkit (as a workaround by replacing gksu with gksu-polkit in the desktop file of the Synaptic Package Manager, Gparted,...); but unfortunately, gksu-polkit is not working properly in Ubuntu. What do you think about gksu-polkit? Cheers Francesco http://packages.debian.org/unstable/main/gksu-polkit http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gksu-polkit;dist=unstable From waywardgeek at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 20:37:36 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:37:36 -0400 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs (forgot links) In-Reply-To: <4BC62571.3070104@gmx.net> References: <20100414123752.GC2139@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC6188D.1070202@gmx.net> <4BC62571.3070104@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Francesco Fumanti wrote: > As far as I understand, the ideal solution at least from the point of view > of a mouse only user, would probably be to enhance the applications that > need root privileges to directly use policykit to get root privileges when > they needed it. (instead of running as root all the time through gksu) > > At some point, I hoped to be able to replace gksu with gksu-polkit (as a > workaround by replacing gksu with gksu-polkit in the desktop file of the > Synaptic Package Manager, Gparted,...); but unfortunately, gksu-polkit is > not working properly in Ubuntu. What do you think about gksu-polkit? Initially, I just replaced calls to gksu with calls to a simple sudo wrapper script, which I called runsu. However, there are multiple tools in the system that call gksu directly, and I found I got better results by replacing gksu with the wrapper script around sudo. For example, Ubiquity, the Ubuntu installer, crashes about half the time for blind users, because /usr/bin/ubiquity calls gksu to launch the real application, or at least it did in Beta 1. I agree that policy kit in theory is a superior solution, if it works with Orca, but for all the legacy apps that don't yet use it, I prefer a sudo wrapper to gksu. The other choice is to just fix gksu, but I don't understand why we've got such a complex tool that in the end should just be calling sudo. If there is any realistic interest in a Python wrapper around sudo to replace gksu, I'll bump up it's priority on my to-do list. Bill From j.schmude at gmail.com Wed Apr 14 21:28:31 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:28:31 -0400 Subject: at-spi race condition Message-ID: <4BC6337F.2090609@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all Can anyone still produce the at-spi race condition at startup? It was happening to me all day yesterday and the day before, but as of this morning when I did an update it no longer is happening. I'm trying to reproduce it so I can attach some debug output to the bug, but it figures now that I actually *want* to reproduce it none of my machines are cooperating. They're working perfectly now, the one time I don't want them to. Luke posted some instructions on the bug page: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at-spi/+bug/562776 Anyone who's able to reproduce this please help debug. If I ever get my machines to do it again I'll put my debug output there, but this is something I think we all want to be absolutely certain is fixed before Lucid final. Just because I can't reproduce it anymore doesn't mean it has gone away. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvGM38ACgkQybLrVJs+Wi67YQCePm6K9i/5cPSD1EV3G3/AdUWf AxQAn0eMcXmqiDXt2h4mTkzesUHhm+nt =4cnt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From thomaslloyd at yahoo.com Wed Apr 14 21:50:36 2010 From: thomaslloyd at yahoo.com (Thomas Lloyd) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:50:36 +0100 Subject: New/bored developers Message-ID: <1271281836.3045.4.camel@DualCore910.lan> Hi Lesley, Slightly selfish of myself I could do with a month or so input from a C/C++ guy for a speech dispatcher to opensapi interface. This is basically writing a middle man to handle messages and audio data from the SAPI engine into speech dispatcher and pulse. Anyone else go some bandwidth I would appreciate it. Tom (Notlistening) From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Wed Apr 14 22:51:36 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:51:36 -0400 Subject: Netbook now running Vinux (Lucid) Message-ID: <4BC646F8.70600@verizon.net> Hi, List! Thanks for all your suggestions re: my troubles with making and using usb installers. I was able to create a Vinux Lucid alpha 3 usb, using unetbootin. I'm using the machine and noticing lots of lag in the speech. Also, this Orca has trouble staying focused. My right alt key no longer works. Also, when I use 'alt-tab', the names of running apps are not spoken. How much of this trouble is Vinux-specific? Maybe some is specific to Lucid? Finally, How much of this is related to the Asus hardware and/or the operating system's support for same? Thanks again, Dave From themuso at ubuntu.com Wed Apr 14 23:34:47 2010 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:34:47 +1000 Subject: An introduction to the mailing list In-Reply-To: <20100414142228.79d717d5@teamcharliesangels.com> References: <20100414142228.79d717d5@teamcharliesangels.com> Message-ID: <20100414233447.GA2137@strigy.yelavich.home> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 06:22:28AM EST, Charlie Kravetz wrote: > I do have to question why the launchpad accessibility is not subscribed > automatically to 'at-spi'? This should be a package that this team is > very concerned with. Accessibility-dev is, and the accessibility-bugs mailing list receives at-spi bubgs. Luke From waywardgeek at gmail.com Thu Apr 15 11:06:21 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:06:21 -0400 Subject: April 13, 2010 Meeting Logs (forgot links) In-Reply-To: References: <20100414123752.GC2139@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BC6188D.1070202@gmx.net> <4BC62571.3070104@gmx.net> Message-ID: I was asked to post my current gksu script to this thread, so here it is. There are two scripts, one to deal with some gksu options, which are translated into sudo options, and another to open the dialog box and ask for the password. Both of these should probably be rewritten as Python wrappers, and the dialog box that pops up should be enhanced to look like the gksu dialog. I find that with this change, I don't have issues with at-spi-registryd anymore. Most importantly, it enables the ubiquity installer to run reliably with Orca. I've created a Debian package for it, which is available through the Vinux/Lucid PPA. I have it directly overwrite /usr/bin/gksu, which is a hack. The down-side is that if you uninstall the package, you're left with no gksu executable at all. Bill -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gksu Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1813 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: askpass Type: application/octet-stream Size: 126 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Thu Apr 15 15:15:34 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:15:34 -0400 Subject: the module called lp? Message-ID: <4BC72D96.5000207@verizon.net> Hello list! Thinking that speakup may be contributing to my poor speech performance in this new netbook, I turned the speechdup service off. I know that there is a module that must also be loaded in order for speakup to work. In /etc/modules, I have two uncommented lines reading "lp", without the quotes. Is this the speakup module? Thanks, Dave From linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com Thu Apr 15 15:21:12 2010 From: linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com (Alex H.) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:21:12 -0500 Subject: the module called lp? In-Reply-To: <4BC72D96.5000207@verizon.net> References: <4BC72D96.5000207@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Dave, I believe lp is the printer module. The speakup module if you're using software speech should look like speakup_soft start=1 HTH alex On 4/15/10, Dave Hunt wrote: > Hello list! > > Thinking that speakup may be contributing to my poor speech > performance in this new netbook, I turned the speechdup service off. I > know that there is a module that must also be loaded in order for > speakup to work. In /etc/modules, I have two uncommented lines reading > "lp", without the quotes. Is this the speakup module? > > Thanks, > > > Dave > > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From j.schmude at gmail.com Thu Apr 15 15:47:46 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:47:46 -0400 Subject: the module called lp? In-Reply-To: <4BC72D96.5000207@verizon.net> References: <4BC72D96.5000207@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4BC73522.10404@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Lp is the parallel port printer module. It's loaded at boot because it's not possible to detect when hardware is attached to the parallel port. You can remove this line unless your machine has such a port, and I've not yet seen any netbook that does. Come to think of it, while it's not possible to detect when hardware is connected to the lpt port, it is certainly possible to detect whether the system has one. Why then load such a driver without at least detecting if the port exists? Strange. On 04/15/2010 11:15 AM, Dave Hunt wrote: > Hello list! > > Thinking that speakup may be contributing to my poor speech > performance in this new netbook, I turned the speechdup service off. I > know that there is a module that must also be loaded in order for > speakup to work. In /etc/modules, I have two uncommented lines reading > "lp", without the quotes. Is this the speakup module? > > Thanks, > > > Dave > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvHNSEACgkQybLrVJs+Wi41TgCeNhqP2/oUAGnsVyT1FLDIpJvn 5koAnjRpoTWpzKfFmU/0EUfE4B60QvK1 =cQQX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Sat Apr 17 03:02:40 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 23:02:40 -0400 Subject: Sound Problems Continue on Netbook Message-ID: <20100417030240.10315.59192.levelstar.mail@icon> Hi, List! I have been running Netbook Remix much of today. After installation, I updated speech dispatcher and espeak with those in the Vinux Karmic repository. Also, I removed /etc/pulseaudio/pulse_a11y_nostart" and rebooted. Orca is a bit more responsive than it was when I was using Vinux Lucid. However, I cannot use the machine for long without the sound degenerating to either a loud, unstopable bunch of static or looping one sylable. When this happens, I can only stop the machine by powering down. I'm at a loss for what next to do. Should I try replacing dispatcher with Gnome Speech? Speakup with Flite? Change distros? What else? Looking forword to your ideas, Dave From cerha at brailcom.org Mon Apr 19 07:10:48 2010 From: cerha at brailcom.org (Tomas Cerha) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:10:48 +0200 Subject: Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher In-Reply-To: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> References: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> Message-ID: <4BCC01F8.5080606@brailcom.org> Hello, just my few personal thoughts... While I respect anyone's freedom to take on the work that we started and continue in a direction he believes is the best, I am not quite convinced that making a fork is necessary and helpful. The announcement started by a question "Why Fork Speech Dispatcher and Related Projects?", but I can't find anything that would answer the question for me even if I pretty much agree with all what was written below. It is true, that GPL grants the freedom to do it, that the importance of Speech Dispatcher grew over the time and that the non-profit organization Brailcom didn't find resources to finance the development in the last two years. But I fail to find a convincing reason in these facts. Brailcom has always officially supported the work done by Luke Yelavich and others. We linked Luke's git from the official Speech Dispatcher web page and we were trying to promote this work where possible. We also put at least some minimal effort into reviewing how the development continues and plan to make an official release (yes, without being able to promise the exact date) and we constantly put significant effort in attempts to find resources for continuation of the work and we believe we will succeed (though, as we announced, we can not promise anything, as it does not depend on our decision). I am just afraid, that having two projects with two names and different directions will not be really practical. What particularly is the key problem in the current model where the actual development takes place in Luke's git repo? I don't say it is ideal, but maybe there is less to do to make it better, then making a fork and renaming... Best regards, Tomas Cerha From waywardgeek at gmail.com Mon Apr 19 13:50:51 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:50:51 -0400 Subject: Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher In-Reply-To: <4BCC01F8.5080606@brailcom.org> References: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BCC01F8.5080606@brailcom.org> Message-ID: Hi, Tomas. Everyone is are very pleased with Brailcom's work on speech-dispatcher, but as Brailcom's contract ran out, Brailcom necessarily moved on to new projects. Now, I for one support Brailcom getting more contracts to do more work, and if that happens, we may want to look at merging OpenTTS back into speech-dispatcher. Even better might be if Brailcom could get a contract to move forward with it's next-generation replacement for speech-dispatcher. It is clear that the volunteers have enough bandwidth to move speech-dispatcher forward, yet not enough to complete the new project to replace it. Luke has very generously offering to move OpenTTS forward in his free time, and as a pragmatic solution, it makes sense to let him. Since the fork, development has accelerated several-fold, which I think we all agree is a good thing, but it's still nowhere near what it would be if a couple of full time developers could be assigned to the project. In short, whoever has the ability to put in the hard work to move forward most effectively should lead. So, please consider this a "friendly" fork, focused on the good of the community. If Brailcom needs some voices of support for new contracts, I think you can count on us, as everyone here seems to be a fan of Brailcom and the excellent work they've done. In fact, if there is any specific action you could recommend that I can take to help Brailcom close new business, please let me know. Best regards, Bill On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:10 AM, Tomas Cerha wrote: > Hello, > > just my few personal thoughts... > > While I respect anyone's freedom to take on the work that we started and continue in a > direction he believes is the best, I am not quite convinced that making a fork is > necessary and helpful. > > The announcement started by a question "Why Fork Speech Dispatcher and Related > Projects?", but I can't find anything that would answer the question for me even if I > pretty much agree with all what was written below.  It is true, that GPL grants the > freedom to do it, that the importance of Speech Dispatcher grew over the time and that > the non-profit organization Brailcom didn't find resources to finance the development in > the last two years.  But I fail to find a convincing reason in these facts. > > Brailcom has always officially supported the work done by Luke Yelavich and others.  We > linked Luke's git from the official Speech Dispatcher web page and we were trying to > promote this work where possible.  We also put at least some minimal effort into > reviewing how the development continues and plan to make an official release (yes, > without being able to promise the exact date) and we constantly put significant effort > in attempts to find resources for continuation of the work and we believe we will > succeed (though, as we announced, we can not promise anything, as it does not depend on > our decision). > > I am just afraid, that having two projects with two names and different directions will > not be really practical.  What particularly is the key problem in the current model > where the actual development takes place in Luke's git repo?  I don't say it is ideal, > but maybe there is less to do to make it better, then making a fork and renaming... > > Best regards, > > Tomas Cerha > > _______________________________________________ > Speechd mailing list > Speechd at lists.freebsoft.org > http://lists.freebsoft.org/mailman/listinfo/speechd > From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Mon Apr 19 14:18:08 2010 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:18:08 +0200 Subject: Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher In-Reply-To: References: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BCC01F8.5080606@brailcom.org> Message-ID: <20100419141808.GG5025@const.bordeaux.inria.fr> Hello, Bill Cox, le Mon 19 Apr 2010 09:50:51 -0400, a écrit : > > Brailcom has always officially supported the work done by Luke Yelavich and others.  We > > linked Luke's git from the official Speech Dispatcher web page and we were trying to > > promote this work where possible.  We also put at least some minimal effort into > > reviewing how the development continues and plan to make an official release Couldn't brailcom just share the responsibility of releases with Luke & co? I believe forking was for a big part needed to actually commit and release new versions. Projects that I have seen forked were usually like that: the maintainers not having the time to develop and release new versions, and not having other people do it either. It'd be really better if we could avoid any fork, as that would save a lot of packaging / naming headache. Samuel From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Tue Apr 20 16:32:49 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:32:49 -0400 Subject: A Better Way to Accessible Live Cd? Message-ID: <1271781169.1815.6.camel@netbook> Hi List! I am trying to install Lucid, and cannot get an accessible install, that is, assuming the usb key boots, in the first place. The "magic key sequence" hitting 'space' every 4 seconds for the 1st 30, then 'f5 3 enter enter', does not work. When the live cd session boots, and I manually start orca from the run dialogue, I go through the setup and try logging back in; it never happens right. Also, while in the setup, another orca tries to start preferences, then both end up locked. Option of powering down is only one left to me. I've tried starting another x session, thinking I might be able to come up talking. Why must such a "magic sequence" be necessary? Is it too much to ask that a working orca be available, just by starting it from the menus or the run dialogue in the live session? Thanks, Dave From hammera at pickup.hu Wed Apr 21 11:15:28 2010 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:15:28 +0200 Subject: Speech-dispatcher Espeak module terminated with buffer underrun Message-ID: <4BCEDE50.1020408@pickup.hu> Dear List, Not often I see this problem, but when now I browsing the internet with full updated Lucid live CD, Speech-dispatcher is terminated a after longer use. Only help when I manual killing speech-dispatcher process to keep back Orca speech with killall speech-dispatcher command. I send a bugreport with all importanter need data, if anybody want, please look or add comments: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/567810 Used Espeak version is original Ubuntu packaged, 1.43.03-0ubuntu1 version. The difficulter problem with this bug I can not possible reproduce after I killed speech-dispatcher process and keep back the speech. Anybody see this not often happening problem in Lucid? Attila From hammera at pickup.hu Wed Apr 21 11:16:44 2010 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:16:44 +0200 Subject: Speech-dispatcher Espeak module terminated with buffer underrun In-Reply-To: <4BCEDE50.1020408@pickup.hu> References: <4BCEDE50.1020408@pickup.hu> Message-ID: <4BCEDE9C.7010609@pickup.hu> Dear List, Sorry, not buffer underrun happened, buffer underflow happened. I mistake the subject. Attila From rikgoldman at gmail.com Wed Apr 21 12:41:57 2010 From: rikgoldman at gmail.com (rik goldman) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:41:57 -0400 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: I've been lurking since the meeting several days ago and thought I'd take a moment to introduce myself. My name is Rik Goldman; I'm high-school English and advanced technology teacher at a school that serves students with language-based learning disabilities - dyslexia, dysgraphia, CAPD, and others (we don't label, so I don't know the full range). The students' disabilities typically affect reading comprehension, reading fluency, written language mechanics, and written language expression. Right now we're a Windows shop and rely on Kurzweil 3000 for text to speech, WordQ/SpeakQ for speech to text, Inspiration for mind mapping, and Soliloquy Reading Assistant to improve fluency and comprehension. I'm on a crusade to move us to open source, but had to pipe down when I discovered text to speech and speech to text aren't fully mature yet in the open-source community (I may very well have missed a successful project in my research). My hopes for Ubuntu are blue sky when contrasted with the concerns that I've seen expressed here. I'm really determined to find a text-to-speech solution that works for students without having to rely on the command line. Orca is difficult for my to configure, and will certainly not be a solution many of our students could cope with. Regarding speech to text, my research suggests there are projects out there, but they're not mature. My technology background includes time as an instructional technologist, database designer, Solaris and Irix administration, and A+ type stuff. Thanks for listening. I look forward to contributing where ever I can be helpful. Rik Goldman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hammera at pickup.hu Wed Apr 21 15:27:26 2010 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:27:26 +0200 Subject: I hear Distorted Orca speech after login in 10.04 Message-ID: <4BCF195E.8000105@pickup.hu> Dear List, My desktop machine have following integrated sound card: 00:07.0 Audio device [0403]: nVidia Corporation MCP72XE/MCP72P/MCP78U/MCP78S High Definition Audio [10de:0774] (rev a1) When my installed 10.04 system is logged in automatic and Orca is started, I hear Orca speech with an interesting distorted voice, and if I press a key, I hear a low echo voice. This is happening I think 10-15 sec, after this Orca works fine. I using speech-dispatcher with Pulseaudio. Possible this problem is a buffering issue, or bug in Speech-dispatcher new Pulseaudio driver? If Orca is not running, for example music playback working fine. I see similar problem some time with following type sound card my notebook: 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 03) My notebook the problem is smaller: When First launching Orca, some time I hear a very shord distorted voice, but the speech is clean understable. Pulseaudio and Speech-dispatcher running my machines factory user based session, not system vide mode. Anybody see similar problems? Attila From j.schmude at gmail.com Wed Apr 21 17:29:54 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:29:54 -0400 Subject: [orca-list] I hear Distorted Orca speech after login in 10.04 In-Reply-To: <4BCF2B38.70604@gmail.com> References: <4BCF195E.8000105@pickup.hu> <4BCF1B4C.7090304@gmail.com> <4BCF2B38.70604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BCF3612.9080903@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Well, all audio cards are AC97-based, mine just happens to say that in the lspci output. You *do* have AC97 in your machines whether you know it or not, as it's a standard audio codec. You change the Pulseaudio resampling method in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf. Change the line that reads: resample-method = speex-float-1 to read: resample-method = speex-float-3 Curiously, while Ubuntu's default is speex-float-1, a stock Pulseaudio configuration defaults to speex-float-3. Alternatively, you can change this parameter on a per-user basis by copying /etc/pulse/daemon.conf to $HOME/.pulse/daemon.conf and editing that file instead. One final thing, you say the cards are Creative Labs. Make sure they do not use the emu10k1 driver if you're going to run Pulseaudio with them, as they don't get along too well right now. If you will be using emu10k1-based cards, such as the SB LIve or SB Audigy2, you'll almost certainly want to disable Pulseaudio. You don't need it anyway, emu10k1-based cards are some of the only ones still made that support full hardware mixing and resampling without a sound server like Pulseaudio helping them. If you experience a lot of audio latency, you'll know you've come across this. hth On 04/21/2010 12:43 PM, hackingKK wrote: > On Wednesday 21 April 2010 09:05 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote: >> Yep, I can confirm this though it only happens on my netbook which has >> the same soundcard your notebook does. It seems to be a resampling issue >> > Hi jacob, > I found this problen in Ubuntu beta 1 on my thinkpad r60. > But just could not replicate in beta 2. > I think this is an inconsistant but. > > >> in Pulseaudio, changing Pulseaudio's resample method from speex-float-1 >> to speex-float-3 cleared it up for me. I suspect it's some sort of >> resampling bug in the latest Pulseaudio when resampling quality is set >> too low, or a perhaps a combination of resampling and buffering. >> > Can you please tell me where to set this parameter, just in case I get > this error on other machines? > We are setting up a lab for blind people in another state in India and I > don't want to have this problem surface there without a known solution. > About 60 computers will be made available for job oriented trainning to > the blind people. > All those computers have some creative sound card, (I don't exactly know > the specs though). > >> Interestingly, I do not get this behavior on my desktop with the >> integrated audio card on that machine. The card is: >> 00:02.7 Multimedia audio controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] >> AC'97 Sound Controller (rev a0) >> >> > > I have AC 97 in my laptop and it never gave problem. > > Happy hacking. > Krishnakant. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvPNhIACgkQybLrVJs+Wi59LACeMFf2b5HdI4KXoanhOf0Usdd5 LCwAn2tXV8BCV2F9L69q2Wia2SQYfrPr =96KQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From weavermicha at googlemail.com Wed Apr 21 20:11:23 2010 From: weavermicha at googlemail.com (michael weaver) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:11:23 +0100 Subject: deja-dup not backing up Message-ID: <4bcf5992.513dd80a.0c2e.ffffb8c8@mx.google.com> i can't seem to tell if deja-dup is running a backup for me. i chose to write to a cd or dvd but the furthest i get is a message saying "location already mounted" and close and i don't know if this is affecting my ability to create my backups and i can't even hear my cd and dvd drive spinning so i am assuming that something has gone wrong. whatever i can't even access my progress with ctrl f1. From hammera at pickup.hu Thu Apr 22 06:03:46 2010 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:03:46 +0200 Subject: [orca-list] I hear Distorted Orca speech after login in 10.04 In-Reply-To: <4BCF3612.9080903@gmail.com> References: <4BCF195E.8000105@pickup.hu> <4BCF1B4C.7090304@gmail.com> <4BCF2B38.70604@gmail.com> <4BCF3612.9080903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BCFE6C2.9040701@pickup.hu> Dear List, Jacob, thank you the suggested pulseaudio config option, but unfortunately this change not solving the problem with my desktop machine. Only help if I hear this interesting noise when Speech-dispatcher begin talking to launch a music playback after Speech-dispatcher begin talking. Very interesting: If I first launch music playback (for example I playing an mp3 file), the sound is not distorted. After playback is beginning, if I launch Orca, Speech-dispatcher speech is distorted and echoed, but the played mp3 file is not distorted, and 10-20 sec later the speech is clean again. Attila From pstowe at gmail.com Thu Apr 22 20:17:25 2010 From: pstowe at gmail.com (Penelope Stowe) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:17:25 -0400 Subject: Next Meeting Message-ID: Sorry I didn't get this e-mail out sooner, but we discussed at the last meeting having another meeting next week. As several of us couldn't make the same time again, can people who are interested please e-mail me with times? I am likely to aim this one for a morning UTC time rather than an evening one, but I do want to know what days and times are good for people. Thanks! Penelope From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Fri Apr 23 19:37:26 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:37:26 -0400 Subject: No accessibility In Lucid Netbook Edition! Message-ID: <20100423193725.1557.38569.levelstar.mail@icon> Since I cannot get an accessible startup from the bootable Lucid usb key I made, I deceaided to have my partner do the install. When it finished, he restarted the machine and logged in. He started orca from the run dialogue, and went through talking setup. He chose to log out at the end. It is now impossible to log into this machine. When typing the correct username and password, the dialogue just comes back. When typing the wrong pair, we get "authentication failure", as we should do. Besides putting Windows or another distro on this netbook, How can I make it usable again? From valdis at odo.lv Sat Apr 24 10:00:52 2010 From: valdis at odo.lv (Valdis) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 10:00:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: No accessibility In Lucid Netbook Edition! References: <20100423193725.1557.38569.levelstar.mail@icon> Message-ID: As I know from my friends, they aren't paranoids and don't use login/password at all. Go System-Administration-Login screen and set log in as... user automatically. Probably the most reliable way is to reinstall Ubuntu on this USB again and set autologin for it. From linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com Sat Apr 24 14:07:54 2010 From: linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com (Alex H.) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 10:07:54 -0400 Subject: No accessibility In Lucid Netbook Edition! In-Reply-To: References: <20100423193725.1557.38569.levelstar.mail@icon> Message-ID: Couldn't you chroot into your installed system from a livecd, and just wipe out your user account, then just add another one? HTH Alex On 4/24/10, Valdis wrote: > As I know from my friends, they aren't paranoids and don't use > login/password at > all. Go System-Administration-Login screen and set log in as... user > automatically. > > Probably the most reliable way is to reinstall Ubuntu on this USB again and > set > autologin for it. > > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From waywardgeek at gmail.com Sat Apr 24 21:45:47 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:45:47 -0400 Subject: Firefox daily build broken Message-ID: Firefox 3.6 is not very accessible. I may have to down-grade to Firefox 3.5 for the Vinux 3.0 release based on Lucid, but I'd rather have all our users testing the newer firefox code. I've compiled and installed code directly from Mozilla's mercurial repository for 3.7 (Minefield), and it works well. I'm writing this e-mail at gmail.com with this browser. However, last night's build from the Mozilla Team PPA locks up whenever I go to gmail.com. I've also think that the problem is due to the patches applied by Ubuntu, though when I build from the Mozilla source, I did a debug build, so they are different. Where would the right place be to send an e-mail or file a bug against Ubuntu's Mozilla team's daily build of Firefox 3.7? Thanks, Bill From w.d.hubbs at gmail.com Tue Apr 27 01:58:07 2010 From: w.d.hubbs at gmail.com (William Hubbs) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:58:07 -0500 Subject: Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher In-Reply-To: <20100419141808.GG5025@const.bordeaux.inria.fr> References: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BCC01F8.5080606@brailcom.org> <20100419141808.GG5025@const.bordeaux.inria.fr> Message-ID: <20100427015807.GA4611@linux1> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 04:18:08PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Hello, > > Bill Cox, le Mon 19 Apr 2010 09:50:51 -0400, a ?crit : > > > Brailcom has always officially supported the work done by Luke Yelavich and others. ?We > > > linked Luke's git from the official Speech Dispatcher web page and we were trying to > > > promote this work where possible. ?We also put at least some minimal effort into > > > reviewing how the development continues and plan to make an official release > > Couldn't brailcom just share the responsibility of releases with Luke > & co? I believe forking was for a big part needed to actually commit > and release new versions. Projects that I have seen forked were usually > like that: the maintainers not having the time to develop and release > new versions, and not having other people do it either. From my personal point of view, Samuel is correct. There has, in my personal opinion, been very poor collaberation between the accessibility community and Brailcom. One example, in my opinion, of poor collaberation has been Brailcom's extremely minimal involvement in the development process. A development repository was opened by Luke so that some of us would be able to get changes into speech-dispatcher. Many patches were sent to this list, for a long time, but there has been extremely minimal participation from Brailcom, so the official repository was never updated and Brailcom hasn't been responding to our patches. We repeatedly asked Brailcom for direction on this list and were told that they couldn't commit any resources to speech-dispatcher at this time. So, speech-dispatcher was becoming a more important project to the accessibility community, but the maintainers were not working on it, and they had no idea when they would be able to work on it again. Another concern I personally have is Brailcom's speechd-up project being deprecated as well as their comments on their speechd-up project page about speakup itself being replaced by other technologies. On the contrary, speakup has a very active user base and shows no signs of being replaced. In my opinion, the fork happened because of poor collaberation and slow responsiveness from the maintainers. I understand that what Brailcom spends their time on is controled by funding, but they made no effort or very minimal effort to work with the community. Yes, we could continue doing unofficial releases and waiting for them to do official releases when they get funding, etc, but the problem there is that if we add functionality in the community releases, there is no guarantee that that functionality would be accepted by Brailcom in their official releases. I personally would be open to working on speech dispatcher, but there would need to be a big change in the way Brailcom collaberates with the community for me to be comfortable with that. William From hanke at brailcom.org Tue Apr 27 18:18:27 2010 From: hanke at brailcom.org (Hynek Hanke) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:18:27 +0200 Subject: Speech Dispatcher 0.7 Beta -- Please help with testing Message-ID: <4BD72A73.8080609@brailcom.org> Dear all, we are preparing a new release of Speech Dispatcher, which brings significant improvements, particularly in audio output, stability, security, easier installation and closer integration into the system. We would like to ask you to help us with testing and report any issues so that we can fix them before the final release. You can find the 0.7 Beta version here: http://www.freebsoft.org/pub/projects/speechd/speech-dispatcher-0.7-beta.tar.gz This release is based on the great work done in the unofficial development branch managed by Luke Yelavich, but some parts needed to be reworked before an official release to ensure a cleaner design, conformance to standards and smoother interoperability with the rest of the system; the new changes were also documented etc. Most important improvements in this release: * Speech Dispatcher uses UNIX style sockets as default means of communication, thus avoiding the necessity to choose a numeric port and greatly easying session integration. Inet sockets are however still supported for communication over network. * Autospawn -- server is started automatically when a client requests it It can be forbidden in the appropriate server configuration file. * Pulse Audio output reworked and fixed * Dispatcher runs as user service (not system service) by default and doesn't require the previous presence of ~/.speech-dispatcher directory * All logging is now managed centrally, not by separate options * Graceful audio fallback (e.g. if Pulse is not working, use Alsa...) * Various bugfixes and fine-tunnings * Updated documentation For more detailed description of the changes, please see the Git log: http://git.freebsoft.org/?p=speechd.git The documentation can be found in the doc/ directory of the .tar.gz package. With Best regards, Hynek Hanke Brailcom, o.p.s. From trev.saunders at gmail.com Tue Apr 27 18:30:39 2010 From: trev.saunders at gmail.com (trev.saunders at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 14:30:39 -0400 Subject: Speech Dispatcher 0.7 Beta -- Please help with testing In-Reply-To: <4BD72A73.8080609@brailcom.org> References: <4BD72A73.8080609@brailcom.org> Message-ID: HI, THere is a rather large local security problem with your use of unix sockets. It is very easy for a local hostile user to cause a denial of service, because you put the unix sockets in a world readable place with *very* predictable names. They are so predictable because a the only thing that the attacker has to gues is the UID of the user, and because UID's for standard users start at 1000, and are assigned in order, the attacker would only have to create say 100 files, wich with a simple shell script is trivial. Trev From samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org Tue Apr 27 23:07:12 2010 From: samuel.thibault at ens-lyon.org (Samuel Thibault) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 01:07:12 +0200 Subject: Speech Dispatcher 0.7 Beta -- Please help with testing In-Reply-To: References: <4BD72A73.8080609@brailcom.org> Message-ID: <20100427230712.GS2209@const.famille.thibault.fr> trev.saunders at gmail.com, le Tue 27 Apr 2010 14:30:39 -0400, a écrit : > THere is a rather large local security problem with your use of unix sockets. It is very easy for a local hostile user to cause a denial of service, because you put the unix sockets in a world readable place with *very* predictable names. They are so predictable because a the only thing that the attacker has to gues is the UID of the user, and because UID's for standard users start at 1000, and are assigned in order, the attacker would only have to create say 100 files, wich with a simple shell script is trivial. That's actually not really new, compared to the previous TCP/IP approach. The place (or port number) has to be well-known for applications to be able to connect to it anyway, so any security layer needs to be added after connection. Samuel From waywardgeek at gmail.com Wed Apr 28 00:09:06 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:09:06 -0400 Subject: Speech Dispatcher 0.7 Beta -- Please help with testing In-Reply-To: <20100427230712.GS2209@const.famille.thibault.fr> References: <4BD72A73.8080609@brailcom.org> <20100427230712.GS2209@const.famille.thibault.fr> Message-ID: I like the socket approach, but I guess your concern may be why Luke was thinking of using dbus. Still, a denial of service that requires users already be logged into the machine is a far smaller security hole. Right now, a clever hacker could most likely find a way to cause one of the less well maintained speech-dispatcher subsystems to execute arbitrary code, remotely though a wide-open TCP port. I think a switch to file sockets is a sensible short-term fix. One of my favorite tricks to play on blind guys I'm supporting in Vinux is to start talking to them through the speech-dispatcher TCP port. If you ever let me into a machine on your network, don't be surprised when your machines running Orca start saying the strangest things! Bill On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > trev.saunders at gmail.com, le Tue 27 Apr 2010 14:30:39 -0400, a écrit : >> THere is a rather large local security problem with your use of unix sockets.  It is very easy for a local hostile user to cause a denial of service, because you put the unix sockets in a world readable place with *very* predictable names.  They are so predictable because a the only thing that the attacker has to gues is the UID of the user, and because UID's for standard users start at 1000, and are assigned in order, the attacker would only have to create say 100 files, wich with a simple shell script is trivial. > > That's actually not really new, compared to the previous TCP/IP > approach. > > The place (or port number) has to be well-known for applications to be > able to connect to it anyway, so any security layer needs to be added > after connection. > > Samuel > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From hanke at brailcom.org Wed Apr 28 08:06:56 2010 From: hanke at brailcom.org (Hynek Hanke) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 10:06:56 +0200 Subject: Speech Dispatcher 0.7 Beta -- Please help with testing In-Reply-To: References: <4BD72A73.8080609@brailcom.org> <20100427230712.GS2209@const.famille.thibault.fr> Message-ID: <4BD7ECA0.10900@brailcom.org> Hello all, >There is a rather large local security problem with your use of unix sockets. >It is very easy for a local hostile user to cause a denial of service Thanks for pointing this out. I think your concern, is valid and we will fix it though I don't think it's one of the most important problems for accessibility today. The situation is as follows: 1) Such a described DoS is as easy with the former inet socket implementation (any hostile user can open the port first and thus block it) that we have used till now. So this is actually nothing new. 2) With session integration as done by Luke Yelavich (e.g. assigning ports numbers as BASE_PORT+uid), we get problems even in case of no-attack, since there is no guarantee that all 7560+ ports will be free to use and not blocked by any other service. 3) With ports and without authentication (former situation), in most current installation setups, any local user could connect to a session run by any other user, which was a large documented problem which was removed by the use of unix sockets with correct permissions. 4) The reason why the socket name is predictable is that clients could predict it and connect it without having to refer to a third party. If someone could suggest a good and universal (not Gnome or X based) mechanism so that Speech Dispatcher knows which address to run on and the clients know which address to connect to, without any need for some pre-configuration (like the ever problematic SPEECHD_PORT variable), please send it to us! 5) We might as well try to use other destination, namely ~/.speech-dispatcher as for all other speechd stuff (predictable but only writable by the given user). 6) We totally support a DBus interface (it was our plan if there would be more funding), but I think it is necessary to also have a lower level system communication mechanism for clients like speechd-el or clients running outside of X. I suggest we move this now technical discussion to speechd at lists.freebsoft.org . Best regards, Hynek Hanke From pstowe at gmail.com Wed Apr 28 09:11:07 2010 From: pstowe at gmail.com (Penelope Stowe) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 05:11:07 -0400 Subject: Our Next Meeting - Blueprint for UDS Message-ID: Hi, I got feedback on meeting times from exactly 1 person for this week. As it's now half way through the week I'd like to propose we have a meeting next week instead. How does Tuesday morning at either 9:00 or 10:00 UTC work for people? (That's 10:00 or 11:00 BST) Please let me know which is better for you all! I do feel we need to meet to discuss our blueprint and get something on it prior to UDS. The blueprint can be found at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-accessibility-reorg Thanks! Penelope From michael at no-surprises.co.uk Wed Apr 28 09:23:31 2010 From: michael at no-surprises.co.uk (Michael Maclean) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 10:23:31 +0100 Subject: Our Next Meeting - Blueprint for UDS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BD7FE93.30706@no-surprises.co.uk> Penelope Stowe wrote: > How does Tuesday morning at either 9:00 or 10:00 UTC work for people? > (That's 10:00 or 11:00 BST) I'm a bit busy that day, though any day later in the week should work for me, if that suits others? Michael From pstowe at gmail.com Wed Apr 28 09:26:15 2010 From: pstowe at gmail.com (Penelope Stowe) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 05:26:15 -0400 Subject: Our Next Meeting - Blueprint for UDS In-Reply-To: <4BD7FE93.30706@no-surprises.co.uk> References: <4BD7FE93.30706@no-surprises.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 5:23 AM, Michael Maclean wrote: > Penelope Stowe wrote: >> How does Tuesday morning at either 9:00 or 10:00 UTC work for people? >> (That's 10:00 or 11:00 BST) > > I'm a bit busy that day, though any day later in the week should work > for me, if that suits others? > > Michael > Wednesday or Thursday also works for me. How to the rest of you feel about those two days? Thanks, Penelope From cerha at brailcom.org Wed Apr 28 13:35:58 2010 From: cerha at brailcom.org (Tomas Cerha) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:35:58 +0200 Subject: Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher In-Reply-To: <20100427015807.GA4611@linux1> References: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BCC01F8.5080606@brailcom.org> <20100419141808.GG5025@const.bordeaux.inria.fr> <20100427015807.GA4611@linux1> Message-ID: <4BD839BE.3090409@brailcom.org> William Hubbs napsal(a): > There has, in my personal opinion, been very poor collaberation between > the accessibility community and Brailcom. We announced that we are not currently able to put a reasonable amount of work into it, but that we welcome anyone willing to help. We avoided any unfair promises, but offered collaboration. Please, read the answer to the "Open letter" by Mr. Buchal carefully. We didn't receive any concrete offer for such collaboration. So it can be also said that there has been a poor collaboration between the community and Brailcom. I don't think it's fair either way. > One example, in my opinion, of poor collaberation has been Brailcom's > extremely minimal involvement in the development process. A development > repository was opened by Luke so that some of us would be able to get > changes into speech-dispatcher. Many patches were sent to this list, > for a long time, but there has been extremely minimal participation from > Brailcom, so the official repository was never updated and Brailcom > hasn't been responding to our patches. We have put a huge amount of resources and our own personal effort into the Speech Dispatcher project within the nearly 10 years of its development. And among other reasons also due to a minimal feedback from the community, we started to put more of it into other our projects in the last two or three years. As we have responsibility for these other projects, we can not switch our long term plans from day to day just because the community decides they now need us. Thus we avoided making any promises that we are not able to guarantee. That's all. > We repeatedly asked Brailcom for direction on this list and were told > that they couldn't commit any resources to speech-dispatcher at this > time. So, speech-dispatcher was becoming a more important project to > the accessibility community, but the maintainers were not working on it, > and they had no idea when they would be able to work on it again. Not being able to promise is not the same as not having an idea. > Another concern I personally have is Brailcom's speechd-up project being > deprecated as well as their comments on their speechd-up project page > about speakup itself being replaced by other technologies. On the > contrary, speakup has a very active user base and shows no signs of > being replaced. We only announced that we are not going to continue speechd-up development. We will be glad if someone else will take the project and go on. That's the difference compared to Speech Dispatcher. > In my opinion, the fork happened because of poor collaberation and slow > responsiveness from the maintainers. > > I understand that what Brailcom spends their time on is controled by > funding, but they made no effort or very minimal effort to work with the > community. As well as the community made a little effort to help us. No one asked, hey, I would like to see a new release because I feel the feature XY deserves it. What can I do to help that happen? We were only asked to act or make public promises. > Yes, we could continue doing unofficial releases and waiting for them to > do official releases when they get funding, etc, but the problem there > is that if we add functionality in the community releases, there is no > guarantee that that functionality would be accepted by Brailcom in their > official releases. I wouldn't see anything wrong about having unofficial patches in Speech Dispatcher packages. That's the packager's responsibility. Of course, it is more convenient when the patches get included upstream, but let's not exaggerate the situation. We said we are going to include them and we were working on it as the time permitted us. We announced the existence of these unofficial versions in the meantime. > I personally would be open to working on speech dispatcher, but there > would need to be a big change in the way Brailcom collaberates with the > community for me to be comfortable with that. If you really mean it, if you are able to accept the increased overhead of collaboration which is compensated by avoiding duplication and confusion, let's stop fruitless discussions. I understand your reasons and if you try to understand ours pragmatically, there is still a chance for more collaboration. I am stopping any arguments on this topic right now because it is really wasting time. Please, consider our limited possibilities and try to suggest a model that would suit you. Best regards, Tomas Cerha Brailcom, o.p.s. From w.d.hubbs at gmail.com Wed Apr 28 17:32:14 2010 From: w.d.hubbs at gmail.com (William Hubbs) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:32:14 -0500 Subject: Announcing the OpenTTS project, a fork of speech-dispatcher In-Reply-To: <4BD839BE.3090409@brailcom.org> References: <20100413010759.GA2853@strigy.yelavich.home> <4BCC01F8.5080606@brailcom.org> <20100419141808.GG5025@const.bordeaux.inria.fr> <20100427015807.GA4611@linux1> <4BD839BE.3090409@brailcom.org> Message-ID: <20100428173214.GA1131@linux1> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 03:35:58PM +0200, Tomas Cerha wrote: > William Hubbs napsal(a): > > There has, in my personal opinion, been very poor collaberation between > > the accessibility community and Brailcom. > > We announced that we are not currently able to put a reasonable amount of work into it, > but that we welcome anyone willing to help. We avoided any unfair promises, but offered > collaboration. Please, read the answer to the "Open letter" by Mr. Buchal carefully. > > We didn't receive any concrete offer for such collaboration. So it can be also said > that there has been a poor collaboration between the community and Brailcom. I don't > think it's fair either way. > > > One example, in my opinion, of poor collaberation has been Brailcom's > > extremely minimal involvement in the development process. A development > > repository was opened by Luke so that some of us would be able to get > > changes into speech-dispatcher. Many patches were sent to this list, > > for a long time, but there has been extremely minimal participation from > > Brailcom, so the official repository was never updated and Brailcom > > hasn't been responding to our patches. > > We have put a huge amount of resources and our own personal effort into the Speech > Dispatcher project within the nearly 10 years of its development. And among other > reasons also due to a minimal feedback from the community, we started to put more of it > into other our projects in the last two or three years. As we have responsibility for > these other projects, we can not switch our long term plans from day to day just because > the community decides they now need us. Thus we avoided making any promises that we are > not able to guarantee. That's all. I understand that you have other projects you work on, and you cannot commit much time to speech dispatcher. However, when the community did start adopting it, and sent multiple patches to the list, there was still no response from you. Not even a message explaining that you did not have funding and would look over the patches when you had time/funding IIRC. > > Another concern I personally have is Brailcom's speechd-up project being > > deprecated as well as their comments on their speechd-up project page > > about speakup itself being replaced by other technologies. On the > > contrary, speakup has a very active user base and shows no signs of > > being replaced. > > We only announced that we are not going to continue speechd-up development. We will be > glad if someone else will take the project and go on. That's the difference compared to > Speech Dispatcher. Quoting from http://www.freebsoft.org/speechd-up: ---------- cut here ---------- The aim of the (currently deprecated) Speechd-Up project was to give users the possibility to use the Speakup screen reader with software synthesis. It worked as an interface daemon between Speakup and Speech Dispatcher, who took care of the software synthesis. The approach with providing console accessibility through special kernel code however proved to be problematic in many aspects and given the current developments in accessibility technologies, these tools have been substituted by other means. ---------- cut here ---------- Note the second paragraph. Speakup is far from being replaced, and it is still under development. So, I would say that this statement is partly false. Yes there are some issues, but those are being worked on, and the kernel developers have been positive towards speakup development. > > In my opinion, the fork happened because of poor collaberation and slow > > responsiveness from the maintainers. > > > > I understand that what Brailcom spends their time on is controled by > > funding, but they made no effort or very minimal effort to work with the > > community. > > As well as the community made a little effort to help us. No one asked, hey, I would > like to see a new release because I feel the feature XY deserves it. What can I do to > help that happen? We were only asked to act or make public promises. If you do not have the funding to do releases, why not figure out a way to share this responsibility with the community? > > Yes, we could continue doing unofficial releases and waiting for them to > > do official releases when they get funding, etc, but the problem there > > is that if we add functionality in the community releases, there is no > > guarantee that that functionality would be accepted by Brailcom in their > > official releases. > > I wouldn't see anything wrong about having unofficial patches in Speech Dispatcher > packages. That's the packager's responsibility. Of course, it is more convenient when > the patches get included upstream, but let's not exaggerate the situation. We said we > are going to include them and we were working on it as the time permitted us. We > announced the existence of these unofficial versions in the meantime. I think the concern is since gnome/orca is planning on getting rid of gnome-speech in gnome 3, there will be a larger user base for speech dispatcher and bugs will need to be fixed and new releases will need to happen much more often than they have so far. Unofficial patches are fine for short-term fixes until a new release gets done, but that's all. > > I personally would be open to working on speech dispatcher, but there > > would need to be a big change in the way Brailcom collaberates with the > > community for me to be comfortable with that. > > If you really mean it, if you are able to accept the increased overhead of collaboration > which is compensated by avoiding duplication and confusion, let's stop fruitless > discussions. I understand your reasons and if you try to understand ours pragmatically, > there is still a chance for more collaboration. I am stopping any arguments on this > topic right now because it is really wasting time. Please, consider our limited > possibilities and try to suggest a model that would suit you. Personally, I feel that having a separate official and development repository is also duplication of effort. Since you do not work on this project full time, Are you willing to allow community members to commit directly to your repository on freebsoft.org? I do not know of any open source projects that have a separate repository for "development" and an official repository. What about faster response for releases? How can you share the responsibility for release management with the community? William From aerospace1028 at hotmail.com Thu Apr 29 11:46:49 2010 From: aerospace1028 at hotmail.com (aerospace1028 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 07:46:49 -0400 Subject: upgrading to lucid Message-ID: greetings, I did some more research on how to update ubuntu distributions from the command line. The two options appear to be: (1) sudo update-manager (2) sudo do-release-upgrade -m desktop method 1 would just launch the graphical application from the command line (gnome-terminal) and in general is the recommended distribution upgrade method from the ubuntu wiki. I can't find much doccumentation on do-release-upgrade, are there any drastic differences btween what these two programs do? Does anyone have any advice on which is the better (faster? more accessible?) method for updateing my Ubuntu system to lucid? Thanks:-) _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waywardgeek at gmail.com Thu Apr 29 12:17:21 2010 From: waywardgeek at gmail.com (Bill Cox) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:17:21 -0400 Subject: upgrading to lucid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I always ran $ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade But I've had trouble most times with this. More often than not, I have not been able to boot my machine into Gnome after a dist-upgrade from a full release back. However, I hack my system pretty heavily, so my experience is probably not the norm. If you're running a recent Lucid Beta or release candidate, it will probably work. Be sure to do a full backup before the upgrade, and be prepared to do a full reinstall if things don't work out. Bill On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:46 AM, wrote: > greetings, > I did some more research on how to update ubuntu distributions from the > command line.  The two options appear to be: > > (1) sudo update-manager > > (2) sudo do-release-upgrade -m desktop > > method 1 would just launch the graphical application from the command line > (gnome-terminal) and in general is the recommended distribution upgrade > method from the ubuntu wiki.  I can't find much doccumentation on > do-release-upgrade, are there any drastic differences btween what these two > programs do? > > Does anyone have any advice on which is the better (faster? more > accessible?) method for updateing my Ubuntu system to lucid? > > Thanks:-) > > > ________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > Get started. > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > From j.schmude at gmail.com Thu Apr 29 12:59:47 2010 From: j.schmude at gmail.com (Jacob Schmude) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:59:47 -0400 Subject: upgrading to lucid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BD982C3.6040801@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI Bill I got bit by this too, going from 9.10 to 10.04. In a nutshell, I've found that sometimes ubuntu-desktop and some of its associated packages get removed, though I've not found out why. The solution is, immediately after doing the dist-upgrade and before you reboot, to sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop. That will put everything back into place, things like gnome-session-bin and nautilus will be put back in as well after dist-upgrade somehow autoremoved them. I suspect this is something update-manager would normally take care of, but I've had my own set of problems with that approach. I don't know for certain, but I suspect this also applies to the other ubuntu meta packages such as ubuntu-netbook. I don't use them though, so can't say. I also had a rather hacked system, so who knows if this will happen to most people. Before now I thought I was the only one who got bit by it since I didn't see anything like this when searching the Ubuntu forums. Just to be safe though, always sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop (or whatever other meta package you use) after a dist-upgrade. It won't hurt anything anyway. On 04/29/2010 08:17 AM, Bill Cox wrote: > I always ran > > $ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade > > But I've had trouble most times with this. More often than not, I > have not been able to boot my machine into Gnome after a dist-upgrade > from a full release back. However, I hack my system pretty heavily, > so my experience is probably not the norm. If you're running a recent > Lucid Beta or release candidate, it will probably work. Be sure to do > a full backup before the upgrade, and be prepared to do a full > reinstall if things don't work out. > > Bill > > On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:46 AM, wrote: >> greetings, >> I did some more research on how to update ubuntu distributions from the >> command line. The two options appear to be: >> >> (1) sudo update-manager >> >> (2) sudo do-release-upgrade -m desktop >> >> method 1 would just launch the graphical application from the command line >> (gnome-terminal) and in general is the recommended distribution upgrade >> method from the ubuntu wiki. I can't find much doccumentation on >> do-release-upgrade, are there any drastic differences btween what these two >> programs do? >> >> Does anyone have any advice on which is the better (faster? more >> accessible?) method for updateing my Ubuntu system to lucid? >> >> Thanks:-) >> >> >> ________________________________ >> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. >> Get started. >> -- >> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvZgsIACgkQybLrVJs+Wi5tRACeIYzlK3ezg0ZY2sRTo2nIYH/z lZ4AniNhvvrkqCqMT7Bl9sy2rUIq8Hls =fYs/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Thu Apr 29 16:57:36 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:57:36 -0400 Subject: Reversed Shift in Vinux Lucid RC 1 Message-ID: <4BD9BA80.5000905@verizon.net> After installing the subject distro and restarting the system, I logged in, and opened a web site. When trying to log onto the site, I discovered that my username and password were in all upper-case. Furthermore, all terminal inmput was in upper case, as well. Holding shift allowed me to get lower-case letters. Taping caps-lock did not fix this. Quitting and restarting Orca, also failed to fix. I had to log out and back in on the system, to correct the case. Thanks for any suggestions on how to fix this, other than "log out and back in". Best, Dave From huntp at ukonline.co.uk Thu Apr 29 17:44:05 2010 From: huntp at ukonline.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:44:05 +0100 Subject: Applications run with sudo aren't accessible in Lucid? Message-ID: <4BD9C565.4040409@ukonline.co.uk> Hi list, I just upgraded from Karmic to Lucid (via a fresh install) and I'm finding I can't get Orca to read any applications I run with sudo from the terminal. For example; doing sudo gedit test Brings up an inaccessible window. I had a quick look back through the archives but noone else seems to be reporting this. Any ideas what's going on? Running admin apps with sudo has been working fine in the last few releases of Ubuntu without need for any hacking or anything. Thanks. Paul From phillw at phillw.net Thu Apr 29 17:50:34 2010 From: phillw at phillw.net (Phillip Whiteside) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:50:34 +0100 Subject: Applications run with sudo aren't accessible in Lucid? In-Reply-To: <4BD9C565.4040409@ukonline.co.uk> References: <4BD9C565.4040409@ukonline.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi, any graphical interfaces should be run as gksudo and not sudo gksudo gedit test using sudo can cause headaches with permissions being altered. Regards, Phill. On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Paul Hunt wrote: > Hi list, > > I just upgraded from Karmic to Lucid (via a fresh install) and I'm > finding I can't get Orca to read any applications I run with sudo from > the terminal. > > For example; doing > > sudo gedit test > > Brings up an inaccessible window. > > I had a quick look back through the archives but noone else seems to be > reporting this. > > Any ideas what's going on? > > Running admin apps with sudo has been working fine in the last few > releases of Ubuntu without need for any hacking or anything. > > Thanks. > Paul > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From huntp at ukonline.co.uk Thu Apr 29 18:15:42 2010 From: huntp at ukonline.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 19:15:42 +0100 Subject: Applications run with sudo aren't accessible in Lucid? In-Reply-To: References: <4BD9C565.4040409@ukonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <4BD9CCCE.5070407@ukonline.co.uk> Hi Phill, Trying to run an application with gksudo ccauses the AT-SPI to hang and you lose all speech on the desktop. In order to regain speech you need to login to a text console and run 'sudo killall gksudo' This restores speech and in previous versions of Ubuntu gained you access to the application in question. That is why many people run applications from the terminal with sudo instead of using the launchers in the admin menu which use gksudo. However whether I use sudo or gksudo in my new Lucid installation I can't gain access to the application in question. Paul On 29/04/10 18:50, Phillip Whiteside wrote: > Hi, > > any graphical interfaces should be run as gksudo and not sudo > > gksudo gedit test > > using sudo can cause headaches with permissions being altered. > > Regards, > > Phill. > > On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Paul Hunt > wrote: > > Hi list, > > I just upgraded from Karmic to Lucid (via a fresh install) and I'm > finding I can't get Orca to read any applications I run with sudo from > the terminal. > > For example; doing > > sudo gedit test > > Brings up an inaccessible window. > > I had a quick look back through the archives but noone else seems > to be > reporting this. > > Any ideas what's going on? > > Running admin apps with sudo has been working fine in the last few > releases of Ubuntu without need for any hacking or anything. > > Thanks. > Paul > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phillw at phillw.net Thu Apr 29 19:02:10 2010 From: phillw at phillw.net (Phillip Whiteside) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:02:10 +0100 Subject: Applications run with sudo aren't accessible in Lucid? In-Reply-To: <4BD9CCCE.5070407@ukonline.co.uk> References: <4BD9C565.4040409@ukonline.co.uk> <4BD9CCCE.5070407@ukonline.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Paul, I've not really up to speed with the speech accessibilty stuff, I've been testing the 'main' parts of Lucid through the test cycle and the up coming Lubuntu. I'll be gradually getting my computer onto 10.04 (Finally released today) and leave an install 'free' to put the orca etc things onto. Regards, Phill. On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Paul Hunt wrote: > Hi Phill, > > Trying to run an application with gksudo ccauses the AT-SPI to hang and you > lose all speech on the desktop. > > In order to regain speech you need to login to a text console and run 'sudo > killall gksudo' > > This restores speech and in previous versions of Ubuntu gained you access > to the application in question. > > That is why many people run applications from the terminal with sudo > instead of using the launchers in the admin menu which use gksudo. > > However whether I use sudo or gksudo in my new Lucid installation I can't > gain access to the application in question. > > Paul > > > > On 29/04/10 18:50, Phillip Whiteside wrote: > > Hi, > > any graphical interfaces should be run as gksudo and not sudo > > gksudo gedit test > > using sudo can cause headaches with permissions being altered. > > Regards, > > Phill. > > On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Paul Hunt wrote: > >> Hi list, >> >> I just upgraded from Karmic to Lucid (via a fresh install) and I'm >> finding I can't get Orca to read any applications I run with sudo from >> the terminal. >> >> For example; doing >> >> sudo gedit test >> >> Brings up an inaccessible window. >> >> I had a quick look back through the archives but noone else seems to be >> reporting this. >> >> Any ideas what's going on? >> >> Running admin apps with sudo has been working fine in the last few >> releases of Ubuntu without need for any hacking or anything. >> >> Thanks. >> Paul >> >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Thu Apr 29 20:24:57 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:24:57 -0400 Subject: Enabling ctrl-alt-backspace in Ubuntu 10.04 Message-ID: <4BD9EB19.1030605@verizon.net> Hi, List! I found this on ubuntugeek.com and thought I'd share. This topic has come up on the list before. *Enabling Ctrl-Alt-Backspace for Ubuntu 10.04* * Select "System"->"Preferences"->"Keyboard" * Select the "Layouts" tab and click on the "Layout Options" button. * Select "Key sequence to kill the X server" and enable "Control + Alt + Backspace". ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Thu Apr 29 20:46:13 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:46:13 -0400 Subject: Caps-lock passing through Orca Message-ID: <4BD9F015.7060802@verizon.net> I've discovered that the state of caps-lock is passing through to running apps. It does act as the 'orca' modifier key, as well. What setting(s) may correct this? I want caps-lock to be the 'orca' key, but not change the case of typed leters. Thanks, Dave From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Fri Apr 30 01:39:16 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:39:16 -0400 Subject: Strange behavior when reading but Child in Vinux Lucid Message-ID: <20100430013916.15743.97275.levelstar.mail@icon> Hi, List! When reading by child in text areas, I notice a tendency of Orca to be silent while the cursor moves over chs, but they will be spoken every two or three. This may also happen when moving word-wise. I wonder what combination of speech dispatcher, espeak, and orca settings will fix this? Great job on Vinux 3 rc 1. Dave H. From dave.hunt2 at verizon.net Fri Apr 30 02:19:32 2010 From: dave.hunt2 at verizon.net (Dave Hunt) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 22:19:32 -0400 Subject: Strange behavior when reading but Child in Vinux Lucid Message-ID: <20100430021932.15743.21477.levelstar.mail@icon> Hi, I meant "character", not "child". My bad in grade 2 braille. On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:39:16 -0400, Dave Hunt wrote: >Hi, List! > >When reading by child in text areas, I notice a tendency of Orca to be silent >while the cursor >moves over chs, but they will be spoken every two or three. This may also >happen when moving word-wise. >I wonder what combination of speech dispatcher, espeak, and orca settings will >fix this? > >Great job on Vinux 3 rc 1. > >Dave H. > >-- >Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From tcross at rapttech.com.au Fri Apr 30 03:34:41 2010 From: tcross at rapttech.com.au (Tim Cross) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:34:41 +1000 Subject: upgrading to lucid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19418.20433.66012.560917@rapttech.com.au> I have always used do-release-upgrade. This morning, I used it to upgrade to lucid and all looks OK so far. I'm a bit old fashioned though. My main interface is based on emacspeak. I've not used orca that much. Therefore, I tend to use text based apps over graphics based ones, despite the fact I run under X. Tim aerospace1028 at hotmail.com writes: > greetings, > I did some more research on how to update ubuntu distributions from the command line. The two options appear to be: > > (1) sudo update-manager > > (2) sudo do-release-upgrade -m desktop > > method 1 would just launch the graphical application from the command line (gnome-terminal) and in general is the recommended distribution upgrade method from the ubuntu wiki. I can't find much doccumentation on do-release-upgrade, are there any drastic differences btween what these two programs do? > > Does anyone have any advice on which is the better (faster? more accessible?) method for updateing my Ubuntu system to lucid? > > Thanks:-) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Tim Cross tcross at rapttech.com.au There are two types of people in IT - those who do not manage what they understand and those who do not understand what they manage. -- Tim Cross tcross at rapttech.com.au There are two types of people in IT - those who do not manage what they understand and those who do not understand what they manage. From aerospace1028 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 30 12:53:37 2010 From: aerospace1028 at hotmail.com (aerospace1028 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:53:37 -0400 Subject: upgrading to lucid In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Hi Bill, Sorry, I forgot to mention I was way back on Hardy (8.04 LTS). I had origianally considered apt-get dist-upgrade, but some one else on the list claimed it provided problems. I scavenged the ubuntu wiki and found a couple passing references to do-release-upgrade. I don't think I have much hacks on my system. I built atk, at-spi and orca--for the 2.22 desktop--from git (so i could build against liblouis). > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:17:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: upgrading to lucid > From: waywardgeek at gmail.com > To: aerospace1028 at hotmail.com > CC: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > I always ran > > $ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade > > But I've had trouble most times with this. More often than not, I > have not been able to boot my machine into Gnome after a dist-upgrade > from a full release back. However, I hack my system pretty heavily, > so my experience is probably not the norm. If you're running a recent > Lucid Beta or release candidate, it will probably work. Be sure to do > a full backup before the upgrade, and be prepared to do a full > reinstall if things don't work out. > > Bill > > On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:46 AM, wrote: > > greetings, > > I did some more research on how to update ubuntu distributions from the > > command line. The two options appear to be: > > > > (1) sudo update-manager > > > > (2) sudo do-release-upgrade -m desktop > > > > method 1 would just launch the graphical application from the command line > > (gnome-terminal) and in general is the recommended distribution upgrade > > method from the ubuntu wiki. I can't find much doccumentation on > > do-release-upgrade, are there any drastic differences btween what these two > > programs do? > > > > Does anyone have any advice on which is the better (faster? more > > accessible?) method for updateing my Ubuntu system to lucid? > > > > Thanks:-) > > > > > > ________________________________ > > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > > Get started. > > -- > > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > > > _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aerospace1028 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 30 12:58:13 2010 From: aerospace1028 at hotmail.com (aerospace1028 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:58:13 -0400 Subject: upgrading to lucid In-Reply-To: <19418.20433.66012.560917@rapttech.com.au> References: , <19418.20433.66012.560917@rapttech.com.au> Message-ID: Thanks Tim, I was leaning towards do-release-upgrade because I'm a little more comfortable with the comand-line than graphical applications. I think I'm going to wait a couple of days before attempting the upgrade to let the traffic through the repositories slow down. thanks:-) > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:34:41 +1000 > To: aerospace1028 at hotmail.com > CC: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re:upgrading to lucid > From: tcross at rapttech.com.au > > > I have always used do-release-upgrade. This morning, I used it to upgrade to > lucid and all looks OK so far. > > I'm a bit old fashioned though. My main interface is based on emacspeak. I've > not used orca that much. Therefore, I tend to use text based apps over > graphics based ones, despite the fact I run under X. > > Tim > > aerospace1028 at hotmail.com writes: > > greetings, > > I did some more research on how to update ubuntu distributions from the command line. The two options appear to be: > > > > (1) sudo update-manager > > > > (2) sudo do-release-upgrade -m desktop > > > > method 1 would just launch the graphical application from the command line (gnome-terminal) and in general is the recommended distribution upgrade method from the ubuntu wiki. I can't find much doccumentation on do-release-upgrade, are there any drastic differences btween what these two programs do? > > > > Does anyone have any advice on which is the better (faster? more accessible?) method for updateing my Ubuntu system to lucid? > > > > Thanks:-) > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > -- > Tim Cross > tcross at rapttech.com.au > > There are two types of people in IT - those who do not manage what they > understand and those who do not understand what they manage. > -- > Tim Cross > tcross at rapttech.com.au > > There are two types of people in IT - those who do not manage what they > understand and those who do not understand what they manage. _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: