From themuso at ubuntu.com Fri Apr 1 02:10:40 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:10:40 +1100 Subject: will speech be possible with BQ Aquaris M10 convergence? In-Reply-To: <56FDB0C1.6080006@thewordnerd.info> References: <56FD0231.9090200@tomaatnet.nl> <20160331220640.GA3978@buffalo> <56FDB0C1.6080006@thewordnerd.info> Message-ID: <20160401021040.GA15081@buffalo> On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 10:20:33AM AEDT, Nolan Darilek wrote: > I feel like the OP's question is a bit different. > > My understanding of these devices is that they become full(er) desktops when > plugged in to external hardware. At this point, would existing desktop APIs > take over and grant a desktop-like level of a11y, even if they don't work in > touch mode? No, because it is not the same code base, sorry I probably didn't make that clear. Its totally new Unity, based on Qt5, based on Mir, no X involved, no Gtk anywhere so far as I know, etc. Luke From quirky.wizard at gmx.com Fri Apr 1 10:22:04 2016 From: quirky.wizard at gmx.com (Daniel Crone) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 05:22:04 -0500 Subject: anyone on mumble Message-ID: Hello. I sometimes like to chat with people. Is there a mumble chat room for ubuntu users, with a name like linux.mumble.com ubuntu.mumble.com or something like that? From coffeekingms at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 13:41:20 2016 From: coffeekingms at gmail.com (kendell clark) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 08:41:20 -0500 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> hi Being objective is a little difficult, since I've switched back to mate, but i'll give it a shot. Hear goes. Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. As a resultt, once you learn where everything is it won't ever change. This is an advantage if you just want to run your apps and not have to go looking for stuff on the panel. On the other hand, gnome has taken out a lot of functionality that mate, being a fork of gnome 2 before all this stuff was removed, has. In gnome, you can't select a different sound theme than the default except by using gsettings. You can't create your own desktop icons, and removing a drive through the gui is buried in nautilus. Whether you care about this stuff mostly depends on what you do with your computer. Mate is much lighter on resources, which won't matter unless you have a computer that gnome doesn't run well on. On the other hand, mate's panels can be very odd with orca, sometimes getting stuck and requiring a reset of orca or the panel to fix things. Mate is a lot more configurable, but has the disadvantage of not being able to run apps as root accessibly. At least for now. This is being worked on right now and should be fixed shortly. Mate has a nice menu system, with apps organized into categories. Sound and video, office, etc. You can't search for apps like you can in gnome, to find them you have to use the menus or add them to the desktop. You can of course create keyboard shortcuts to launch them and so on. I can't tell you which is better because each one is preferred by different people. But mate tends to be better on computers that don't have a lot of power or memory. Gnome has more desktop effects and can search, but has a lot of the more advanced functionality removed. It's really up to you, in the end. Thanks Kendell Clark Daniel Crone wrote: > Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. > What do you think? From DON.RAIKES at ORACLE.COM Fri Apr 1 16:30:01 2016 From: DON.RAIKES at ORACLE.COM (Don Raikes) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> References: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> Message-ID: <11677619-320e-4fd2-b625-b6290387287a@default> I have been frustrated with gnome-shell for a while now and want to go back to mate. I downloaded the ubuntu-mate-15.10 desktop iso and have tried installing it in a vmware virtual machine, but once it is installed I can't get sound working on it at all. I tried with a variety of configurations over the last couple of days but nothing seems to work. -----Original Message----- From: kendell clark [mailto:coffeekingms at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 6:41 AM To: Daniel Crone; ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate hi Being objective is a little difficult, since I've switched back to mate, but i'll give it a shot. Hear goes. Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. As a resultt, once you learn where everything is it won't ever change. This is an advantage if you just want to run your apps and not have to go looking for stuff on the panel. On the other hand, gnome has taken out a lot of functionality that mate, being a fork of gnome 2 before all this stuff was removed, has. In gnome, you can't select a different sound theme than the default except by using gsettings. You can't create your own desktop icons, and removing a drive through the gui is buried in nautilus. Whether you care about this stuff mostly depends on what you do with your computer. Mate is much lighter on resources, which won't matter unless you have a computer that gnome doesn't run well on. On the other hand, mate's panels can be very odd with orca, sometimes getting stuck and requiring a reset of orca or the panel to fix things. Mate is a lot more configurable, but has the disadvantage of not being able to run apps as root accessibly. At least for now. This is being worked on right now and should be fixed shortly. Mate has a nice menu system, with apps organized into categories. Sound and video, office, etc. You can't search for apps like you can in gnome, to find them you have to use the menus or add them to the desktop. You can of course create keyboard shortcuts to launch them and so on. I can't tell you which is better because each one is preferred by different people. But mate tends to be better on computers that don't have a lot of power or memory. Gnome has more desktop effects and can search, but has a lot of the more advanced functionality removed. It's really up to you, in the end. Thanks Kendell Clark Daniel Crone wrote: > Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. > What do you think? -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From fudge at thefudge.net Fri Apr 1 19:43:22 2016 From: fudge at thefudge.net (Rob Whyte) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 06:43:22 +1100 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: <11677619-320e-4fd2-b625-b6290387287a@default> References: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> <11677619-320e-4fd2-b625-b6290387287a@default> Message-ID: <56FECF5A.4040903@thefudge.net> Hi, What frustrates you about Gnome Don? cheers Rob On 02/04/16 03:30, Don Raikes wrote: > I have been frustrated with gnome-shell for a while now and want to go back to mate. > I downloaded the ubuntu-mate-15.10 desktop iso and have tried installing it in a vmware virtual machine, but once it is installed I can't get sound working on it at all. > > I tried with a variety of configurations over the last couple of days but nothing seems to work. > > -----Original Message----- > From: kendell clark [mailto:coffeekingms at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 6:41 AM > To: Daniel Crone; ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate > > hi > Being objective is a little difficult, since I've switched back to mate, but i'll give it a shot. Hear goes. > Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. > > As a resultt, once you learn where everything is it won't ever change. > This is an advantage if you just want to run your apps and not have to go looking for stuff on the panel. On the other hand, gnome has taken out a lot of functionality that mate, being a fork of gnome 2 before all this stuff was removed, has. In gnome, you can't select a different sound theme than the default except by using gsettings. > > You can't create your own desktop icons, and removing a drive through the gui is buried in nautilus. Whether you care about this stuff mostly depends on what you do with your computer. Mate is much lighter on resources, which won't matter unless you have a computer that gnome doesn't run well on. On the other hand, mate's panels can be very odd with orca, sometimes getting stuck and requiring a reset of orca or the panel to fix things. > > Mate is a lot more configurable, but has the disadvantage of not being able to run apps as root accessibly. At least for now. This is being worked on right now and should be fixed shortly. Mate has a nice menu system, with apps organized into categories. Sound and video, office, etc. You can't search for apps like you can in gnome, to find them you have to use the menus or add them to the desktop. > > You can of course create keyboard shortcuts to launch them and so on. I can't tell you which is better because each one is preferred by different people. But mate tends to be better on computers that don't have a lot of power or memory. Gnome has more desktop effects and can search, but has a lot of the more advanced functionality removed. It's really up to you, in the end. > Thanks > Kendell Clark > > > Daniel Crone wrote: >> Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. >> What do you think? > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From milton at tomaatnet.nl Fri Apr 1 20:26:15 2016 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 22:26:15 +0200 Subject: {Spam?} Re: will speech be possible with BQ Aquaris M10 convergence? In-Reply-To: <20160401021040.GA15081@buffalo> References: <56FD0231.9090200@tomaatnet.nl> <20160331220640.GA3978@buffalo> <56FDB0C1.6080006@thewordnerd.info> <20160401021040.GA15081@buffalo> Message-ID: <56FED967.9010405@tomaatnet.nl> Many thanks for your answer. Hopefully it will be once accessible with speech. Milton Op 01-04-16 om 04:10 schreef Luke Yelavich: > On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 10:20:33AM AEDT, Nolan Darilek wrote: >> I feel like the OP's question is a bit different. >> >> My understanding of these devices is that they become full(er) desktops when >> plugged in to external hardware. At this point, would existing desktop APIs >> take over and grant a desktop-like level of a11y, even if they don't work in >> touch mode? > > No, because it is not the same code base, sorry I probably didn't make that clear. Its totally new Unity, based on Qt5, based on Mir, no X involved, no Gtk anywhere so far as I know, etc. > > Luke > From fudge at thefudge.net Fri Apr 1 21:26:02 2016 From: fudge at thefudge.net (Rob Whyte) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 08:26:02 +1100 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: References: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> <11677619-320e-4fd2-b625-b6290387287a@default> <56FECF5A.4040903@thefudge.net> Message-ID: <56FEE76A.9040602@thefudge.net> Have you tried installing classicmenu-indicator? On 02/04/16 08:18, Don Raikes wrote: > I am just used to the old menu-driven approach and whenever I try to do something I can't find it in gnome. > > I am working on a security-based debian derivative named kalilinux, and I don't know all the tools so it would be helpful to have the menus to guide me into knowing the various tools and their general functions. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Whyte [mailto:fudge at thefudge.net] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:43 PM > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate > > Hi, > What frustrates you about Gnome Don? > cheers > Rob > > > On 02/04/16 03:30, Don Raikes wrote: >> I have been frustrated with gnome-shell for a while now and want to go back to mate. >> I downloaded the ubuntu-mate-15.10 desktop iso and have tried installing it in a vmware virtual machine, but once it is installed I can't get sound working on it at all. >> >> I tried with a variety of configurations over the last couple of days but nothing seems to work. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: kendell clark [mailto:coffeekingms at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 6:41 AM >> To: Daniel Crone; ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate >> >> hi >> Being objective is a little difficult, since I've switched back to mate, but i'll give it a shot. Hear goes. >> Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. >> >> As a resultt, once you learn where everything is it won't ever change. >> This is an advantage if you just want to run your apps and not have to go looking for stuff on the panel. On the other hand, gnome has taken out a lot of functionality that mate, being a fork of gnome 2 before all this stuff was removed, has. In gnome, you can't select a different sound theme than the default except by using gsettings. >> >> You can't create your own desktop icons, and removing a drive through the gui is buried in nautilus. Whether you care about this stuff mostly depends on what you do with your computer. Mate is much lighter on resources, which won't matter unless you have a computer that gnome doesn't run well on. On the other hand, mate's panels can be very odd with orca, sometimes getting stuck and requiring a reset of orca or the panel to fix things. >> >> Mate is a lot more configurable, but has the disadvantage of not being able to run apps as root accessibly. At least for now. This is being worked on right now and should be fixed shortly. Mate has a nice menu system, with apps organized into categories. Sound and video, office, etc. You can't search for apps like you can in gnome, to find them you have to use the menus or add them to the desktop. >> >> You can of course create keyboard shortcuts to launch them and so on. I can't tell you which is better because each one is preferred by different people. But mate tends to be better on computers that don't have a lot of power or memory. Gnome has more desktop effects and can search, but has a lot of the more advanced functionality removed. It's really up to you, in the end. >> Thanks >> Kendell Clark >> >> >> Daniel Crone wrote: >>> Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. >>> What do you think? >> -- >> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >> > From fudge at thefudge.net Fri Apr 1 21:45:07 2016 From: fudge at thefudge.net (Rob Whyte) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 08:45:07 +1100 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: References: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> <11677619-320e-4fd2-b625-b6290387287a@default> <56FECF5A.4040903@thefudge.net> <56FEE76A.9040602@thefudge.net> Message-ID: <56FEEBE3.9030809@thefudge.net> Yes if your distro is Ubuntu based it is in the apt archives. Would enjoy chatting with you on IRC sometime about your project. cheers Rob On 02/04/16 08:30, Don Raikes wrote: > Hi rob, > > I haven't ever heard of it can I get it from apt? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Whyte [mailto:fudge at thefudge.net] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 2:26 PM > To: ubuntu-accessibility > Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate > > Have you tried installing classicmenu-indicator? > > On 02/04/16 08:18, Don Raikes wrote: >> I am just used to the old menu-driven approach and whenever I try to do something I can't find it in gnome. >> >> I am working on a security-based debian derivative named kalilinux, and I don't know all the tools so it would be helpful to have the menus to guide me into knowing the various tools and their general functions. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rob Whyte [mailto:fudge at thefudge.net] >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:43 PM >> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate >> >> Hi, >> What frustrates you about Gnome Don? >> cheers >> Rob >> >> >> On 02/04/16 03:30, Don Raikes wrote: >>> I have been frustrated with gnome-shell for a while now and want to go back to mate. >>> I downloaded the ubuntu-mate-15.10 desktop iso and have tried installing it in a vmware virtual machine, but once it is installed I can't get sound working on it at all. >>> >>> I tried with a variety of configurations over the last couple of days but nothing seems to work. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: kendell clark [mailto:coffeekingms at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 6:41 AM >>> To: Daniel Crone; ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate >>> >>> hi >>> Being objective is a little difficult, since I've switched back to mate, but i'll give it a shot. Hear goes. >>> Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. >>> >>> As a resultt, once you learn where everything is it won't ever change. >>> This is an advantage if you just want to run your apps and not have to go looking for stuff on the panel. On the other hand, gnome has taken out a lot of functionality that mate, being a fork of gnome 2 before all this stuff was removed, has. In gnome, you can't select a different sound theme than the default except by using gsettings. >>> >>> You can't create your own desktop icons, and removing a drive through the gui is buried in nautilus. Whether you care about this stuff mostly depends on what you do with your computer. Mate is much lighter on resources, which won't matter unless you have a computer that gnome doesn't run well on. On the other hand, mate's panels can be very odd with orca, sometimes getting stuck and requiring a reset of orca or the panel to fix things. >>> >>> Mate is a lot more configurable, but has the disadvantage of not being able to run apps as root accessibly. At least for now. This is being worked on right now and should be fixed shortly. Mate has a nice menu system, with apps organized into categories. Sound and video, office, etc. You can't search for apps like you can in gnome, to find them you have to use the menus or add them to the desktop. >>> >>> You can of course create keyboard shortcuts to launch them and so on. I can't tell you which is better because each one is preferred by different people. But mate tends to be better on computers that don't have a lot of power or memory. Gnome has more desktop effects and can search, but has a lot of the more advanced functionality removed. It's really up to you, in the end. >>> Thanks >>> Kendell Clark >>> >>> >>> Daniel Crone wrote: >>>> Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. >>>> What do you think? >>> -- >>> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >>> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >>> > From gervin at cableone.net Fri Apr 1 23:37:15 2016 From: gervin at cableone.net (Glenn / Lenny) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:37:15 -0500 Subject: gnome shell versus mate Message-ID: Hi, With the exception of not being able to connect to hotspots other than my own router, I like Mate very much. This inability with Orca is indeed frustrating. In Gnome, one could access the top panel and locate available networks and connect. If anyone has found a way to do this with Mate, I would like to know. Glenn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaltain at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 00:03:26 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 19:03:26 -0500 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> References: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56FF0C4E.9080702@gmail.com> Are you sure you can't add your own desktop items? I don't recall how I did it, but I have a few desktop icons that I know I created myself in Gnome 3. I also don't have any problem removing a drive. I just find the icon for the drive on the desktop, hit the applications key and then arrow down to eject. On 01/04/16 08:41, kendell clark wrote: > hi > Being objective is a little difficult, since I've switched back to mate, > but i'll give it a shot. Hear goes. > Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with > different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed > easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. > > As a resultt, once you learn where everything is it won't ever change. > This is an advantage if you just want to run your apps and not have to > go looking for stuff on the panel. On the other hand, gnome has taken > out a lot of functionality that mate, being a fork of gnome 2 before all > this stuff was removed, has. In gnome, you can't select a different > sound theme than the default except by using gsettings. > > You can't create your own desktop icons, and removing a drive through > the gui is buried in nautilus. Whether you care about this stuff mostly > depends on what you do with your computer. Mate is much lighter on > resources, which won't matter unless you have a computer that gnome > doesn't run well on. On the other hand, mate's panels can be very odd > with orca, sometimes getting stuck and requiring a reset of orca or the > panel to fix things. > > Mate is a lot more configurable, but has the disadvantage of not being > able to run apps as root accessibly. At least for now. This is being > worked on right now and should be fixed shortly. Mate has a nice menu > system, with apps organized into categories. Sound and video, office, > etc. You can't search for apps like you can in gnome, to find them you > have to use the menus or add them to the desktop. > > You can of course create keyboard shortcuts to launch them and so on. I > can't tell you which is better because each one is preferred by > different people. But mate tends to be better on computers that don't > have a lot of power or memory. Gnome has more desktop effects and can > search, but has a lot of the more advanced functionality removed. It's > really up to you, in the end. > Thanks > Kendell Clark > > > Daniel Crone wrote: >> Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. >> What do you think? > > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From fudge at thefudge.net Sat Apr 2 00:11:31 2016 From: fudge at thefudge.net (Rob Whyte) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 11:11:31 +1100 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: References: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> <11677619-320e-4fd2-b625-b6290387287a@default> <56FECF5A.4040903@thefudge.net> <56FEE76A.9040602@thefudge.net> <56FEEBE3.9030809@thefudge.net> Message-ID: <56FF0E33.3000808@thefudge.net> Hi, surprised you have not found it. Modifier space, so insert or caps lock space to bring up Orca options. Move to the fifth tab. You start out on the tabs so arrow across until you hear Braille then tab for the options. Or push control page down to move through the tabs. cheers On 02/04/16 11:09, Don Raikes wrote: > Rob, > > The classicmenu-indicator does work nicely. > > I have one other question. I use a Braille display with orca, but can't find the orca preferences to enable Braille support in orca. > > Do you know of a quick way to access the orca preferences window? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Whyte [mailto:fudge at thefudge.net] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 2:45 PM > To: ubuntu-accessibility > Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate > > Yes if your distro is Ubuntu based it is in the apt archives. > Would enjoy chatting with you on IRC sometime about your project. > cheers > Rob > > > On 02/04/16 08:30, Don Raikes wrote: >> Hi rob, >> >> I haven't ever heard of it can I get it from apt? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rob Whyte [mailto:fudge at thefudge.net] >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 2:26 PM >> To: ubuntu-accessibility >> Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate >> >> Have you tried installing classicmenu-indicator? >> >> On 02/04/16 08:18, Don Raikes wrote: >>> I am just used to the old menu-driven approach and whenever I try to do something I can't find it in gnome. >>> >>> I am working on a security-based debian derivative named kalilinux, and I don't know all the tools so it would be helpful to have the menus to guide me into knowing the various tools and their general functions. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rob Whyte [mailto:fudge at thefudge.net] >>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:43 PM >>> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate >>> >>> Hi, >>> What frustrates you about Gnome Don? >>> cheers >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> On 02/04/16 03:30, Don Raikes wrote: >>>> I have been frustrated with gnome-shell for a while now and want to go back to mate. >>>> I downloaded the ubuntu-mate-15.10 desktop iso and have tried installing it in a vmware virtual machine, but once it is installed I can't get sound working on it at all. >>>> >>>> I tried with a variety of configurations over the last couple of days but nothing seems to work. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: kendell clark [mailto:coffeekingms at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 6:41 AM >>>> To: Daniel Crone; ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>>> Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate >>>> >>>> hi >>>> Being objective is a little difficult, since I've switched back to mate, but i'll give it a shot. Hear goes. >>>> Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. >>>> >>>> As a resultt, once you learn where everything is it won't ever change. >>>> This is an advantage if you just want to run your apps and not have to go looking for stuff on the panel. On the other hand, gnome has taken out a lot of functionality that mate, being a fork of gnome 2 before all this stuff was removed, has. In gnome, you can't select a different sound theme than the default except by using gsettings. >>>> >>>> You can't create your own desktop icons, and removing a drive through the gui is buried in nautilus. Whether you care about this stuff mostly depends on what you do with your computer. Mate is much lighter on resources, which won't matter unless you have a computer that gnome doesn't run well on. On the other hand, mate's panels can be very odd with orca, sometimes getting stuck and requiring a reset of orca or the panel to fix things. >>>> >>>> Mate is a lot more configurable, but has the disadvantage of not being able to run apps as root accessibly. At least for now. This is being worked on right now and should be fixed shortly. Mate has a nice menu system, with apps organized into categories. Sound and video, office, etc. You can't search for apps like you can in gnome, to find them you have to use the menus or add them to the desktop. >>>> >>>> You can of course create keyboard shortcuts to launch them and so on. I can't tell you which is better because each one is preferred by different people. But mate tends to be better on computers that don't have a lot of power or memory. Gnome has more desktop effects and can search, but has a lot of the more advanced functionality removed. It's really up to you, in the end. >>>> Thanks >>>> Kendell Clark >>>> >>>> >>>> Daniel Crone wrote: >>>>> Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. >>>>> What do you think? >>>> -- >>>> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >>>> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >>>> > From burt1iband at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 11:16:21 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 05:16:21 -0600 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: <56FEE76A.9040602@thefudge.net> References: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> <11677619-320e-4fd2-b625-b6290387287a@default> <56FECF5A.4040903@thefudge.net> <56FEE76A.9040602@thefudge.net> Message-ID: <20160402111621.GB2819@gmail.com> Honestly, the current state of the classicmenu-indicator is much less helpful than it could be in my opinion. There are too many categories, and a large percentage of items appear in multiple sub-menus. I mean, really, sundry and other? This is too bad as this was a nicer tool back when I first used it when gnoe shell was still pretty new. I've got an alternative that hopefully will be packaged for Ubuntu this weekend that is rather more efficient I think, will let you know about it, or write me off list and I'll send you a tarball that can be installed with a couple of commands, i.e. extracting the files and running the installer. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Rob Whyte wrote: Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 08:26:02AM +1100 > Have you tried installing classicmenu-indicator? > > On 02/04/16 08:18, Don Raikes wrote: > > I am just used to the old menu-driven approach and whenever I try to do something I can't find it in gnome. > > > > I am working on a security-based debian derivative named kalilinux, and I don't know all the tools so it would be helpful to have the menus to guide me into knowing the various tools and their general functions. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rob Whyte [mailto:fudge at thefudge.net] > > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:43 PM > > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > > Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate > > > > Hi, > > What frustrates you about Gnome Don? > > cheers > > Rob > > > > > > On 02/04/16 03:30, Don Raikes wrote: > >> I have been frustrated with gnome-shell for a while now and want to go back to mate. > >> I downloaded the ubuntu-mate-15.10 desktop iso and have tried installing it in a vmware virtual machine, but once it is installed I can't get sound working on it at all. > >> > >> I tried with a variety of configurations over the last couple of days but nothing seems to work. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: kendell clark [mailto:coffeekingms at gmail.com] > >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 6:41 AM > >> To: Daniel Crone; ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > >> Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate > >> > >> hi > >> Being objective is a little difficult, since I've switched back to mate, but i'll give it a shot. Hear goes. > >> Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. > >> > >> As a resultt, once you learn where everything is it won't ever change. > >> This is an advantage if you just want to run your apps and not have to go looking for stuff on the panel. On the other hand, gnome has taken out a lot of functionality that mate, being a fork of gnome 2 before all this stuff was removed, has. In gnome, you can't select a different sound theme than the default except by using gsettings. > >> > >> You can't create your own desktop icons, and removing a drive through the gui is buried in nautilus. Whether you care about this stuff mostly depends on what you do with your computer. Mate is much lighter on resources, which won't matter unless you have a computer that gnome doesn't run well on. On the other hand, mate's panels can be very odd with orca, sometimes getting stuck and requiring a reset of orca or the panel to fix things. > >> > >> Mate is a lot more configurable, but has the disadvantage of not being able to run apps as root accessibly. At least for now. This is being worked on right now and should be fixed shortly. Mate has a nice menu system, with apps organized into categories. Sound and video, office, etc. You can't search for apps like you can in gnome, to find them you have to use the menus or add them to the desktop. > >> > >> You can of course create keyboard shortcuts to launch them and so on. I can't tell you which is better because each one is preferred by different people. But mate tends to be better on computers that don't have a lot of power or memory. Gnome has more desktop effects and can search, but has a lot of the more advanced functionality removed. It's really up to you, in the end. > >> Thanks > >> Kendell Clark > >> > >> > >> Daniel Crone wrote: > >>> Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. > >>> What do you think? > >> -- > >> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > >> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > >> > > > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From burt1iband at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 11:22:49 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 05:22:49 -0600 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160402112249.GC2819@gmail.com> And how did you add your own network? This should be easy. Did you not remove the mate bottom panel, and perhaps relocate the top panel to the bottom? You can only read one panel, and it will be the last installed. Put all your icons and applets on the same panel, and things work as they should for the most part.. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Glenn / Lenny wrote: Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 06:37:15PM -0500 > Hi, > With the exception of not being able to connect to hotspots other than my > own router, I like Mate very much. > This inability with Orca is indeed frustrating. > In Gnome, one could access the top panel and locate available networks and > connect. > If anyone has found a way to do this with Mate, I would like to know. > Glenn > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From burt1iband at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 12:06:49 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 06:06:49 -0600 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: <56FF0C4E.9080702@gmail.com> References: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> <56FF0C4E.9080702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160402120649.GE2819@gmail.com> There is more than one way you can to this, but basically you either make a link to a .desktop file, the files used to launch graphical applications, or copy the file it self from /usr/share/applications to your desktop. You can even sym link directly to an executable. I think what Kendell was saying was that you can't easily customize gnome's top bar, although there are a few things availble to add I think. There is a lot that can not be customized with gnome however, and that is certainly one of its weaknesses. Putting icons on the deskto pis not an issue however. The thing is, people probalby miss the old menu item that gave you a couple of fields to fill in to put a launcher on the deaktop or panel of your choice. Also, in gnome you cn't go adding panels like you can in mate, or xfce. Too bad xfce panels are not accessible. I think it's a bit better than maate for sighted folk, and would be for us if those panels would start talking...lol -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Christopher Chaltain wrote: Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 07:03:26PM -0500 > Are you sure you can't add your own desktop items? I don't recall how I did > it, but I have a few desktop icons that I know I created myself in Gnome 3. > > I also don't have any problem removing a drive. I just find the icon for the > drive on the desktop, hit the applications key and then arrow down to eject. > > On 01/04/16 08:41, kendell clark wrote: > >hi > >Being objective is a little difficult, since I've switched back to mate, > >but i'll give it a shot. Hear goes. > >Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with > >different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed > >easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. > > > >As a resultt, once you learn where everything is it won't ever change. > >This is an advantage if you just want to run your apps and not have to > >go looking for stuff on the panel. On the other hand, gnome has taken > >out a lot of functionality that mate, being a fork of gnome 2 before all > >this stuff was removed, has. In gnome, you can't select a different > >sound theme than the default except by using gsettings. > > > >You can't create your own desktop icons, and removing a drive through > >the gui is buried in nautilus. Whether you care about this stuff mostly > >depends on what you do with your computer. Mate is much lighter on > >resources, which won't matter unless you have a computer that gnome > >doesn't run well on. On the other hand, mate's panels can be very odd > >with orca, sometimes getting stuck and requiring a reset of orca or the > >panel to fix things. > > > >Mate is a lot more configurable, but has the disadvantage of not being > >able to run apps as root accessibly. At least for now. This is being > >worked on right now and should be fixed shortly. Mate has a nice menu > >system, with apps organized into categories. Sound and video, office, > >etc. You can't search for apps like you can in gnome, to find them you > >have to use the menus or add them to the desktop. > > > >You can of course create keyboard shortcuts to launch them and so on. I > >can't tell you which is better because each one is preferred by > >different people. But mate tends to be better on computers that don't > >have a lot of power or memory. Gnome has more desktop effects and can > >search, but has a lot of the more advanced functionality removed. It's > >really up to you, in the end. > >Thanks > >Kendell Clark > > > > > >Daniel Crone wrote: > >>Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. > >>What do you think? > > > > > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From juanantofb at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 13:04:50 2016 From: juanantofb at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Juan_Antonio_Fuentes_Berm=FAdez?=) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 15:04:50 +0200 Subject: OT. Error booting ARCH. Message-ID: Hi, I apologize if the question is not correct in this group. I am installing TalkingARCH from a USB flash drive created with Rufus. All the installation process is correct. When booting from the hard disk using the boot loader of my motherboard enters a recovery mode advanced, taking a few mistakes that people who see almost can not read small letters are. When I do the same starting procedure leaving the inserted USB flash drive boot from the hard drive perfectly. Anyone know what's going on? It has also happened in other computers and I could never fix. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gervin at cableone.net Sat Apr 2 13:32:17 2016 From: gervin at cableone.net (Glenn / Lenny) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 08:32:17 -0500 Subject: gnome shell versus mate Message-ID: Message: 5 Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 05:22:49 -0600 From: "B. Henry" To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate Message-ID: <20160402112249.GC2819 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii And how did you add your own network? This should be easy. The way I added my own network is not a problem, you go to Internet and Network, and WIFI under type and then add, and enter the information. But this method does not show available SSIDs and if you think you know the SSID and don't enter it exactly, and have the infrastructure type correct, you will not connect. All this is with clean installs of Ubuntu Mate, no changes. So do you know how I can find the WIFI list? It does not work like with Gnome, with alt + control + tab or any other variant of that. Glenn Did you not remove the mate bottom panel, and perhaps relocate the top panel to the bottom? You can only read one panel, and it will be the last installed. Put all your icons and applets on the same panel, and things work as they should for the most part.. -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From burt1iband at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 18:10:15 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:10:15 -0600 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160402181014.GF2819@gmail.com> It's been some time since I've used a standard mate configuration, so honestly I do not remember whether once IIIIIII added the mate network applet to my panel it just worked like it should have with orca, or if I had to go in to the system menus and use the networkinterface and enter the name and PW there. I know if it had been very troublesome I'd have remembered more. If you don't get it sorted out in a day or two write me back and I'll change the configuratin of a mate installationh I have and see what works. I've got too much going on to look at this today and tomorrow. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Glenn / Lenny wrote: Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 08:32:17AM -0500 > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 05:22:49 -0600 > From: "B. Henry" <[1]burt1iband at gmail.com> > To: [2]ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: gnome shell versus mate > Message-ID: <[3]20160402112249.GC2819 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > And how did you add your own network? > This should be easy. > The way I added my own network is not a problem, you go to Internet and > Network, and WIFI under type and then add, and enter the information. > But this method does not show available SSIDs and if you think you know > the SSID and don't enter it exactly, and have the infrastructure type > correct, you will not connect. > All this is with clean installs of Ubuntu Mate, no changes. > So do you know how I can find the WIFI list? > It does not work like with Gnome, with alt + control + tab or any other > variant of that. > Glenn > Did you not remove the mate bottom panel, and perhaps relocate the top > panel to the bottom? > You can only read one panel, and it will be the last installed. > Put all your icons and applets on the same panel, and things work as they > should for the most part.. >   > > --  >      > > References > > Visible links > 1. file:///dev/mhtml:{AC45AB4A-95F3-477C-93EE-6634985EC77A}mid:/00000431/!x-usc:mailto:burt1iband at gmail.com > 2. file:///dev/mhtml:{AC45AB4A-95F3-477C-93EE-6634985EC77A}mid:/00000431/!x-usc:mailto:ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > 3. file:///dev/mhtml:{AC45AB4A-95F3-477C-93EE-6634985EC77A}mid:/00000431/!x-usc:mailto:20160402112249.GC2819 at gmail.com > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From themuso at ubuntu.com Mon Apr 4 00:23:28 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 10:23:28 +1000 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> References: <56FE7A80.6020800@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160404002328.GA21033@buffalo> On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 12:41:20AM AEDT, kendell clark wrote: > Gnome is great if you don't want to have a customized panel with > different applets on it. The gnome panel is set and can't be changed > easily. It requires an extension or gsettings keys to do so. GNOME shell is quite a lot more extensible than I think a lot of people give it credit for. It would be possible for applications to ship their own extensions, and provide UI to enable or disable an icon for their needs on the panel if they so chose. It is disappointing that the GNOME folks decided to exclude a UI to work with extensions from base GNOME, but that doesn't prevent applications from including settings to show themselves in the shell somewhere via an extension. Luke From alan.pope at canonical.com Fri Apr 1 11:34:12 2016 From: alan.pope at canonical.com (Alan Pope) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 12:34:12 +0100 Subject: anyone on mumble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Daniel, On 1 April 2016 at 11:22, Daniel Crone wrote: > Hello. I sometimes like to chat with people. Is there a mumble chat room for ubuntu users, with a name like > linux.mumble.com > ubuntu.mumble.com > or something like that? There was talk some years ago of having an Ubuntu wide Mumble server, but I don't think anyone ever set one up. It's pretty straightforward to setup a mumble server. I have one for the Ubuntu Podcast which we use when we record, but it's not setup for many users. The Hacker Public Radio Mumble server is very friendly, and has some cross-over in terms of philosophy. So if we were all going to meet up somewhere that might be a good place. host: ch1.teamspeak.cc port: 64747 Personally I hang out on the Jupiter Broadcasting one sometimes, especially when they're recording shows, but also in the evenings when things are quiet. host: new.mumble.jupitercolony.com port: 64734 Cheers, -- Alan Pope Community Manager Canonical - Ubuntu Engineering and Services +44 (0) 7973 620 164 alan.pope at canonical.com http://ubuntu.com/ From quirky.wizard at gmx.com Mon Apr 4 15:29:19 2016 From: quirky.wizard at gmx.com (Daniel Crone) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 10:29:19 -0500 Subject: linphone Message-ID: Hello. I would like to hear from anyone who uses linphone, and can explain how to use it. From burt1iband at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 16:58:39 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 11:58:39 -0500 Subject: linphone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160404165839.GD30588@gmail.com> I use linphone daily, mostly from the linphonc commandline interface, but occasionally from the graphical interface. It is the best and most accessible SIP phone available in my opinion, and think most screenreader users agree. Exact configuration varies between SIP providers. I'd recommend using the wizerd to create a free linphone account to start learning your way around the program. I use two accounts myself, actually have a couple more, but do not use them, and there is no reason for most people to have more than a couple of accounts. Linphone.org for instance is good for SIP to SIP calls, but has no payed option. You will need a payed account to call landline and celluar phones, i.e. like you can do with skype out. I also have a phone number so folks can call me from regular non VOIP phones. I use callcentric.com for talking to people on traditional phones. It costs me two dollars a month to maintain my phone number so I can get incoming calls from landlines and cell phones, and buy credit $5 or $10 at a time to pay for my minutes. Rates per minute are the same or very similar to skype rates for out going calls, e.g. it costs me about 2 U.S. cents per minute to call land lines in the U.S. and Canada, 3.5 cents more or less for calling Mexican landlines, and about 4 cents to call Mexican cell phones. Actually calls to landlines in Mexico City are cheaper, but don't remembe exactly how much they cost. Rates vary around the world. They are generally much cheaper in countries where there is an advanced phone infrastructure, and are more expensive where phones are less common, e.g. calls to many African countries are very expensive, andcalls to Japan, Thailand and many European countries are the same as calling the U.S. Wioth callcentric you do pay per minute to receive calls, 1.5 cents from the U.S. You cn also pay a few dollars more per month and get unliited incoming calls free of per minute charges. It costs $6 a month for an unlimited incoming plan as oposed to skype which costs $5 per month for a phone number if yu pay at least 12 months at a time. The disadvantage of skype is that you have to pay a connect charge, think it's about 10 U.S. cents, so a one or two minute call can be much more expensive per minute. Again, each VOIP provider has its own set of services. With call centric I can get voice mail messages sent to my email address as mp3 attachments, or listen to them by calling my voicemail with linphone or any other SIP client. Their web interface is quite nicely accessible. There are many other services with similar sets of features and similar rates, but be careful, other providers can be mulch more expensive, especially when it comes to per minute charges, easily 5 and 10 times as expensive in some cases, others maybe double, and some will have good rates for some areas and terrible ones for other zones and countries. The linphone GUI can be a bit confusing I find for making and receiving calls, but is the easiest way to configure your acocunts. The commandline interface is very easy for making and receiving clls, and I have been working on a helper that cleans up your history eliminating many typos and duplications while keeping favorite commands such as numbers you frequently call always available. it's not quite ready for prime time, but the basic cleanup functionality is well tested/I've been using it for over a year now. I'lltry and get this packaged soon. Storm Dragon has a short tutorial on setting up linphone from the commandline on his thoughts of a dragon blog, http://stormdragon.tk I don't have the exact direct url for the how-to handy, but search on the website using keywords like skype or linphonne, i.e. I think the original article may haave been talking about skype alternatives. Linphone and SIP have many advantages over skype, i.e. you can call any SIP phone from any other. SIP providers can communicate with one another, you can directly call SIP phones using their IPs. Correctly configured encryption should be better using SIP, and linphone can handle the good VOIP encryption protocol. Sound quality is often better with skype, i.e. there is often a bit of an echo with Linphone and similar programs even though they do use error canceling functionality. That being said, linphone lets you choose between many audio and viedo codecs, and in some cases you may find your calls sound better than with skype, but I usually do not find this to be the case. If you are going to be using linphone with Ubuntu or Vinux, you will probably want to add a repository to your software sources to get all the possible codec support and have encryption working correctly with out hving to build some things from source, but I'd just go on and install linphone and its dependencies from the standard repos, and then if you are going to be using it I'll send you the information on installing the linphone repo for ubuntu basd distros. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Daniel Crone wrote: Mon, Apr 04, 2016 at 10:29:19AM -0500 > Hello. I would like to hear from anyone who uses linphone, and can explain how to use it. > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From burt1iband at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 17:39:12 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:39:12 -0500 Subject: anyone on mumble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160404173912.GJ30588@gmail.com> I have voice chat servers, both teamtalk and mumble configured to handle moderately sized groups, but they are certainly not at this point intended to be Ubuntu specific. I'd be willing to addanother mumble server if there was demand, but I do not know that there is. There was a vinux ventrilo server that could handle up to 50 people at atime, but it ws never used much, so now we stopped paying for that. bThe vinux people are on bllufudge now. There is also a mumble server a friend has where Linux and accessibility are frequent topics of discussion, but the people there are mostly arch users at this time. If anyone needs a place to voice chat about Linux and or accessibility as it relates to Linux, feel free to contact me off list and I can share credentials, and if interest is there I will set up a dedicated server or create a new room on one of my existing serfers. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Alan Pope wrote: Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 12:34:12PM +0100 > Hi Daniel, > > On 1 April 2016 at 11:22, Daniel Crone wrote: > > Hello. I sometimes like to chat with people. Is there a mumble chat room for ubuntu users, with a name like > > linux.mumble.com > > ubuntu.mumble.com > > or something like that? > > There was talk some years ago of having an Ubuntu wide Mumble server, > but I don't think anyone ever set one up. It's pretty straightforward > to setup a mumble server. I have one for the Ubuntu Podcast which we > use when we record, but it's not setup for many users. > > The Hacker Public Radio Mumble server is very friendly, and has some > cross-over in terms of philosophy. So if we were all going to meet up > somewhere that might be a good place. > host: ch1.teamspeak.cc > port: 64747 > > Personally I hang out on the Jupiter Broadcasting one sometimes, > especially when they're recording shows, but also in the evenings when > things are quiet. > host: new.mumble.jupitercolony.com > port: 64734 > > Cheers, > -- > Alan Pope > Community Manager > > Canonical - Ubuntu Engineering and Services > +44 (0) 7973 620 164 > alan.pope at canonical.com > http://ubuntu.com/ > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From luke.yelavich at canonical.com Thu Apr 21 22:57:10 2016 From: luke.yelavich at canonical.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 08:57:10 +1000 Subject: Heads up, Braille in 16.04. Message-ID: <20160421225710.GA26484@buffalo> Hi folks. Unfortunately due to some misunderstanding on how some things worked on my part, and properly testing things cleanly at the time, BrlTTY as of the latest version in 16.04 is not properly functional. Neither enabling it in /etc/default/brltty nor plugging in a USB display and having BrlTTY launch will work. This is a result of me trying to fix BrlTTY not working with udev in the first place. I have identified the problems, and have uploaded a fixed package to the Ubuntu Accessibility dev PPA, http://launchpad.net/~accessibility-dev/+archive. The fixes in this updated package will be pushed into Ubuntu proper as soon as possible, and when they are, I will let everybody know. Sorry for the inconvenience, and I thank you in advance for your understanding. Luke From hammera at pickup.hu Fri Apr 22 06:48:27 2016 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 08:48:27 +0200 Subject: [orca-list] Heads up, Braille in 16.04. In-Reply-To: <20160421225710.GA26484@buffalo> References: <20160421225710.GA26484@buffalo> Message-ID: <5719C93B.4080301@pickup.hu> Hi Luke, In xenial need enabling the /etc/default/brltty file the RUN_BRLTTY=yes configuration key after the updated package awailable in Xenial repository? When need using this setting preference? What the difference the RUN_BRLTTY=yes configuration setting the /etc/default/brltty file and enabled in Systemd the brltty service the systemctl enable brltty command result? I tested your package my Qemu virtual machine my USB Alva Satellite braille display. My system the RUN_BRLTTY=no configuration setting is used, but possible because UDEV detecting my USB braille display, BRLTTY right start automatically. Attila From themuso at ubuntu.com Fri Apr 22 11:04:52 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 21:04:52 +1000 Subject: [orca-list] Heads up, Braille in 16.04. In-Reply-To: <5719C93B.4080301@pickup.hu> References: <20160421225710.GA26484@buffalo> <5719C93B.4080301@pickup.hu> Message-ID: <20160422110452.GB3533@galactica> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 04:48:27PM AEST, Hammer Attila wrote: > Hi Luke, > > In xenial need enabling the /etc/default/brltty file the RUN_BRLTTY=yes > configuration key after the updated package awailable in Xenial repository? > When need using this setting preference? If you have a USB Braille display, Brltty should start when the display is connected, either at boot, or when you connect the display after the system has booted. The RUN_BRLTTy option is for those who may have a particular BrlTTy configuration and are using a display connected via other means, i.e bluetooth or serial port etc. Right now, its easy to enable the systemd service and use the /etc/default/brltty file, but for future releases, that may change to simply using the systemd service, and disabling it by default. Luke From hammera at pickup.hu Fri Apr 22 11:56:08 2016 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 13:56:08 +0200 Subject: [orca-list] Heads up, Braille in 16.04. In-Reply-To: <20160422110452.GB3533@galactica> References: <20160421225710.GA26484@buffalo> <5719C93B.4080301@pickup.hu> <20160422110452.GB3533@galactica> Message-ID: <571A1158.1010309@pickup.hu> Hi Luke, Thank you your answer. If I would like doing a custom live CD with containing custom a11y settings, not matter if both enabled the RUN_BRLTTY=yes and BRLTTY systemd service? What the better preference way? The Systemd service enabling or the RUN_BRLTTY=yes preference in live CD environment? During live CD boot enough to create in chroot environment a symbolic link the /usr/lib/systemd/system/brltty.service file to the /etc/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants directory? I would like default enabling this service if this is possible. My purpose is following: if the Braille display is attached with USB and I understanding right your answer, not need enabling the RUN_BRLTTY=yes preference or the Systemd BRLTTY service, because udev detecting the USB braille displays. But, if the user attaching a serial port or a Bluetooth braille display or attaching a serial port braille display with an USB serial dongle and the display is configured the user with brltty.conf file, BRLTTY not starting automatically if not enabled the RUN_BRLTTY=yes preference or the systemd service. Right my understanding? Attila From hammera at pickup.hu Fri Apr 22 12:01:20 2016 From: hammera at pickup.hu (Hammer Attila) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 14:01:20 +0200 Subject: [orca-list] Heads up, Braille in 16.04. In-Reply-To: <571A1158.1010309@pickup.hu> References: <20160421225710.GA26484@buffalo> <5719C93B.4080301@pickup.hu> <20160422110452.GB3533@galactica> <571A1158.1010309@pickup.hu> Message-ID: <571A1290.9060306@pickup.hu> Hi, I wrong wrote the source of brltty systemd service, right source path is /lib/systemd/system/brltty.service. Attila From baker420chad at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 17:51:10 2016 From: baker420chad at gmail.com (chad baker) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 13:51:10 -0400 Subject: orca won't start on 16.04 Message-ID: Hi just burned 16.04 to disk and orca won’t start when doing control s Did things change? thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From milton at tomaatnet.nl Fri Apr 22 20:26:02 2016 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:26:02 +0200 Subject: orca won't start on 16.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <571A88DA.7050703@tomaatnet.nl> Press Alt+super+S I just installed 16.04 successfully with the help of Orca. Milton Op 22-04-16 om 19:51 schreef chad baker: > Hi just burned 16.04 to disk and orca won’t start when doing control s > Did things change? > thanks > > From themuso at ubuntu.com Fri Apr 22 20:34:06 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 06:34:06 +1000 Subject: [orca-list] Heads up, Braille in 16.04. In-Reply-To: <571A1158.1010309@pickup.hu> References: <20160421225710.GA26484@buffalo> <5719C93B.4080301@pickup.hu> <20160422110452.GB3533@galactica> <571A1158.1010309@pickup.hu> Message-ID: <20160422203406.GB3330@galactica> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 09:56:08PM AEST, Hammer Attila wrote: > Hi Luke, > > Thank you your answer. > If I would like doing a custom live CD with containing custom a11y settings, > not matter if both enabled the RUN_BRLTTY=yes and BRLTTY systemd service? You're probably better to leave the service enabled, and tweak the default file. Luke From themuso at ubuntu.com Fri Apr 22 20:36:07 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 06:36:07 +1000 Subject: orca won't start on 16.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160422203607.GC3330@galactica> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 03:51:10AM AEST, chad baker wrote: > Hi just burned 16.04 to disk and orca won’t start when doing control s > Did things change? Urm, yes. Upstream GNOME adopted a different keystroke a while ago, so we followed suit. You now use super + alt + S to start Orca. Luke From milton at tomaatnet.nl Mon Apr 25 07:46:49 2016 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:46:49 +0200 Subject: installing 16.04 with Orca LibreOffice Calc stops working Message-ID: <571DCB69.1000609@tomaatnet.nl> Hi, I installed 16.04 with Orca on a laptop with 2 GB RAM and I notice Orca 3.18.2. During the installation Orca stops speaking when I had to schoose a region. A sighted person cliked on the Next button and after that I could finisch the installation successfully. I also installed the GNOME Metacity and noticed that the notification menubar in the top richt corner of the screen is now accessible with Orca bij using Control+Alt+Tab and after the Tab and arrow keys. When using LibreOffice Calc: Orca stops speaking as soon as I insert a formula in a cel for example =25+30 At the same time I can work further with Orca using other applications. I will wait for updates to have the best of Orca and 16.04. Thanks. Milton From jdashiel at panix.com Mon Apr 25 07:54:47 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 03:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: installing 16.04 with Orca LibreOffice Calc stops working In-Reply-To: <571DCB69.1000609@tomaatnet.nl> References: <571DCB69.1000609@tomaatnet.nl> Message-ID: The librecalc problem is real and this is on sonargnulinux with orca 3.20 too. However I was able to enter a formula into a cell and had librecalc talking afterwards. I hit the enter key after entering my formula which is why something a little different happened to me. When I did that I ended up on a blank cell below the formula. Hitting up arrow messed up speech once that was done and I suspect minimized librecalc incorrectly. What I was able to do though was to move one cell to the right with rightarrow then uparrow to the top of the spreadsheet then leftarrow once then downarrow to hear the data entered and the formula below it with the result spoken as well in the cell where I inserted the formula. Something is clearly dodgey in librecalc for any of this to be happening. On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Milton wrote: > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 03:46:49 > From: Milton > To: "ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com" > > Subject: installing 16.04 with Orca LibreOffice Calc stops working > > Hi, > > I installed 16.04 with Orca on a laptop with 2 GB RAM and I notice Orca > 3.18.2. During the installation Orca stops speaking when I had to schoose a > region. A sighted person cliked on the Next button and after that I could > finisch the installation successfully. > I also installed the GNOME Metacity and noticed that the notification menubar > in the top richt corner of the screen is now accessible with Orca bij using > Control+Alt+Tab and after the Tab and arrow keys. > When using LibreOffice Calc: Orca stops speaking as soon as I insert a > formula in a cel for example =25+30 > At the same time I can work further with Orca using other applications. > I will wait for updates to have the best of Orca and 16.04. Thanks. > Milton > > -- From mengualjeanphi at free.fr Wed Apr 27 18:01:35 2016 From: mengualjeanphi at free.fr (MENGUAL Jean-Philippe) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:01:35 +0200 Subject: OCR Message-ID: <5720FE7F.3060708@free.fr> Hi, After test of various OCR, I feel that Tesseract, the most advanced OCR engine on Linux, hasn't noawadays all ways to be as performant as commercial utilities. Even if it's wrapped in some tools like Lios or gimagereader, the performance is still difficult to use for "basic" users (I mean, the Windows users who don't have any technical knowledge or who use computer just for needs). That's why I had a look at what provide proprietary world, waiting for having money enough to create a full OCR suite, free and based on Tesseract. Create or improve, as Lios and gimagereader are excellent points of beginning, but some things are hard to understand for our users in GUI (after tests). And we needed a quick solution, so that the GNU/Linux OS could be usable by everyone now, including OCR matter, so that they buy service and finance our devs projects for free software. But I wonder now if some usual GNU/Linux users here could be interested by such a product. What we reach now is a suite for 200E, including: - Abbyy FindReader 11, unlimited in number of pages thanks to an agreement between Abbyy and Hypra based on the fact we do a free program and designed for blind people with specifific needs in OCR, - A package to run it on MATE. 2 ways: * from an image file, right-click, choose the proper option * from a scanner: we give a command to create a binding (as ours in linked against Compiz). I precise that the utility could also use Tesseract if FindReader is missing, but in such case, it will be free. Would some users interested by such solution? I "like" it as it introduces OCR on GNU/Linux and enable some unusual users to come. Waiting for a full "libre" solution, accessible for such people. Regards, -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL Coordinateur francophone du projet Linux From Scratch Animateur suppléant du groupe de travail Accessibilité de l'April Administrateur d'accelibreinfo Administrateur de Liberté 0 -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL HYPRA, progressons ensemble Tél.: 01 84 73 06 61 Mail: contact at hypra.fr Site Web: http://hypra.fr From luke.yelavich at canonical.com Thu Apr 28 08:57:21 2016 From: luke.yelavich at canonical.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:57:21 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu 16.04 Braille users, please help test proposed BrlTTY update. Message-ID: <20160428085721.GA29326@galactica> Hey folks. Further to the email I recently sent about a broken brlTTy package in Ubuntu 16.04, and the subsequent availability of a fixed package in the Ubuntu Accessibility dev PPA, I have submitted the fixed package as an update for 16.04. This fixed package is actually slightly better than what is in the PPA, because I discovered one small issue during testing when getting this update ready for submission. if you could please help test the update, feel free to go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1574538 and read through the bug. The last post contains instructions on how to test the proposed update. Once you have tested, please make sure you reply to the bug and indicate whether the updated package works for you. Do not forget to disable the proposed repository on your system once you have finished testing. I will be testing myself, but the more testers that can verify the update the better. Thanks in advance. Luke