From michael.pozhidaev at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 04:12:58 2016 From: michael.pozhidaev at gmail.com (Michael Pozhidaev) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 10:12:58 +0600 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind Message-ID: Hi guys, A lot of rumors appears around the Ubuntu phone, what is very great news in itself. I'm just wondering is there any work to make this phone accessible for the blind? Or it is already suitable now? Anyway, what is its status regarding its accessibility for the blind? I'm a totally blind man. Due to very serious concerns on Android's security, I'd like to find something different. My question is mostly about basic phone functions, including making calls, maintaining contacts list and SMS reading, rather than general accessibility in applications. If there is nothing ready with that yet, I agree to participate in any work which potentially could result in necessary features for the blind. I'm a software engineer working on Linux for a long time, and I would be happy to be useful. But, of cource, if there are any ideas what to do. Thanks to everybody! :)) -- Michael Pozhidaev. Tomsk, Russia. Russian info page: http://www.marigostra.ru/ English info page: http://www.marigostra.com/ From themuso at ubuntu.com Tue Mar 1 05:51:05 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:51:05 +1100 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160301055105.GA4384@buffalo> On Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 03:12:58PM AEDT, Michael Pozhidaev wrote: > Hi guys, > > A lot of rumors appears around the Ubuntu phone, what is very great news > in itself. I'm just wondering is there any work to make this phone > accessible for the blind? Or it is already suitable now? Anyway, what is > its status regarding its accessibility for the blind? In short, non-existant at the moment. > I'm a totally blind man. Due to very serious concerns on Android's > security, I'd like to find something different. My question is mostly > about basic phone functions, including making calls, maintaining > contacts list and SMS reading, rather than general accessibility in > applications. > If there is nothing ready with that yet, I agree to participate in any > work which potentially could result in necessary features for the > blind. I'm a software engineer working on Linux for a long time, and I > would be happy to be useful. But, of cource, if there are any ideas what > to do. There is much to be done to get this off the ground. Given that Canonical is writing its own display server Mir, the first requirement is to properly tie in the accessibility infrastructure, mainly at-spi, into working properly with Mir to intercept input events, and extend at-spi itself to support touch. It would then be a matter of extending Orca to work with touch, and not requiring Gtk support. In addition, Qt's own linux accessibility support would likely need much work, particularly the QML accessibility components. Ubuntu's QML based SDk would also need much accessibility work. Thats a high level overview, but I hope it sheds some light on what needs doing. Oh... Yeah, Canonical decided to write its own wrapper around Chromium as well, so work is needed there too to add accessibility support, then add support for that to Orca. Luke From michael.pozhidaev at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 07:20:18 2016 From: michael.pozhidaev at gmail.com (Michael Pozhidaev) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 13:20:18 +0600 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind In-Reply-To: <20160301055105.GA4384@buffalo> (Luke Yelavich's message of "Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:51:05 +1100") References: <20160301055105.GA4384@buffalo> Message-ID: Hi Luke, Luke Yelavich writes: > There is much to be done to get this off the ground. Given that > Canonical is writing its own display server Mir, the first requirement > is to properly tie in the accessibility infrastructure, mainly at-spi, > into working properly with Mir to intercept input events, and extend > at-spi itself to support touch. It would then be a matter of extending > Orca to work with touch, and not requiring Gtk support. In addition, > Qt's own linux accessibility support would likely need much work, > particularly the QML accessibility components. Ubuntu's QML based SDk > would also need much accessibility work. Yes, really a plenty of work to do. Could it be reasonable to try first getting some features for basic phone functions (just to have something for the beginning), and, after that try the work you have described? I know a bit about AT-SPI internals (Mike Gorse helped me a lot with that), and agree that this work is worthy enough to do, but will it let us get an accessible phone in observable future? Is Ubuntu phone already on Mir or it still uses ordinary X.org? I am really impatient to try something (although don't have this phone yet). I am ready to try getting this phone, but I need to be sure that I will be able to have access to its internals. Otherwise, apparently , I will be unable to do anything at all. I am planning to be in London from April 10th till 18th (and completely unaware when could get next chance to come to London). May I ask somebody to meet and let me know about this phone more please? If I get first understanding, I will purchase it for further experiments. I support everything what you have write and would be happy to participate in this development, but just want to have something to use as soon as possible. Just because I don't see nothing suitable arount instead. I don't trust Android, Tizen is completely unclear with its accessibility features, but Ubuntu phone is very inspirable also as a thing which I can improve myself. Thank you very much! -- Michael Pozhidaev. Tomsk, Russia. Russian info page: http://www.marigostra.ru/ English info page: http://www.marigostra.com/ From milton at tomaatnet.nl Tue Mar 1 09:42:17 2016 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 10:42:17 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56D563F9.2080204@tomaatnet.nl> Yes, I prefer an Ubuntu phone and convergence accessible with speech. Milton Op 01-03-16 om 05:12 schreef Michael Pozhidaev: > Hi guys, > > A lot of rumors appears around the Ubuntu phone, what is very great news > in itself. I'm just wondering is there any work to make this phone > accessible for the blind? Or it is already suitable now? Anyway, what is > its status regarding its accessibility for the blind? > > I'm a totally blind man. Due to very serious concerns on Android's > security, I'd like to find something different. My question is mostly > about basic phone functions, including making calls, maintaining > contacts list and SMS reading, rather than general accessibility in > applications. > > If there is nothing ready with that yet, I agree to participate in any > work which potentially could result in necessary features for the > blind. I'm a software engineer working on Linux for a long time, and I > would be happy to be useful. But, of cource, if there are any ideas what > to do. > > Thanks to everybody! :)) > From lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu Tue Mar 1 17:41:57 2016 From: lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu (Lisa Brandt) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 09:41:57 -0800 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I finally got around to installing Ubuntu Touch on a Nexus 7, and was disappointed to see absolutely no accessibility features. -- Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services Accessibility Technician Alternate Media Formats Technician SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260 Assistive Technology Support and Appointments: access-tech-group at pcc.edu 971-722-TECH (971-722-8324) From themuso at ubuntu.com Wed Mar 2 00:08:17 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:08:17 +1100 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind In-Reply-To: References: <20160301055105.GA4384@buffalo> Message-ID: <20160302000817.GA3757@buffalo> On Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 06:20:18PM AEDT, Michael Pozhidaev wrote: > Hi Luke, > > Luke Yelavich writes: > > > There is much to be done to get this off the ground. Given that > > Canonical is writing its own display server Mir, the first requirement > > is to properly tie in the accessibility infrastructure, mainly at-spi, > > into working properly with Mir to intercept input events, and extend > > at-spi itself to support touch. It would then be a matter of extending > > Orca to work with touch, and not requiring Gtk support. In addition, > > Qt's own linux accessibility support would likely need much work, > > particularly the QML accessibility components. Ubuntu's QML based SDk > > would also need much accessibility work. > > Yes, really a plenty of work to do. Could it be reasonable to try > first getting some features for basic phone functions (just to have > something for the beginning), and, after that try the work you have > described? It is possible, but I am not sure how one would be able to find what they need on screen without some way of the touch inputs being intercepted, to make sure you don't activate something which you did not mean to activate. Simple notifications like who is calling, incoming messages could be done, but the problem as I see it, is then trying to get to the appropriate app to re-read such data. > I know a bit about AT-SPI internals (Mike Gorse helped me a lot with > that), and agree that this work is worthy enough to do, but will it let > us get an accessible phone in observable future? That all depends on the number of developers who are involved to make this happen. Extending at-spi to support touch events will likely need to be done at some point for Wayland, so that could certainly be started now by those of us who are keen to get it done. The real challenge is then tying it in with the Mir display server that Canonical is using on the phone already, which would likely require help from the Mir developers for best results. They already have a high level understanding of what is needed, but getting this working is not a priority for them right now. >From what they told me, they would probably want Mir itself to assume control for input interception, rather than at-spi itself, since they don't want external processes to have access to any of Mir's input event management data. > Is Ubuntu phone already on Mir or it still uses ordinary X.org? I am > really impatient to try something (although don't have this phone > yet). I am ready to try getting this phone, but I need to be sure > that I will be able to have access to its internals. Otherwise, > apparently , I will be unable to do anything at all. As above, Mir is used on the phone now. > I am planning to be in London from April 10th till 18th (and completely > unaware when could get next chance to come to London). May I ask > somebody to meet and let me know about this phone more please? If I get > first understanding, I will purchase it for further experiments. I > support everything what you have write and would be happy to participate > in this development, but just want to have something to use as soon as > possible. Just because I don't see nothing suitable arount instead. I > don't trust Android, Tizen is completely unclear with its accessibility > features, but Ubuntu phone is very inspirable also as a thing which I > can improve myself. Sorry, I am not sure I am able to help here with advice as to who you could contact in London to try and get more info/help with the Ubuntu phone platform. Luke From michael.pozhidaev at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 05:18:30 2016 From: michael.pozhidaev at gmail.com (Michael Pozhidaev) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 11:18:30 +0600 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind In-Reply-To: <20160302000817.GA3757@buffalo> (Luke Yelavich's message of "Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:08:17 +1100") References: <20160301055105.GA4384@buffalo> <20160302000817.GA3757@buffalo> Message-ID: Hi Luke, Thank you very much for the information you give! The only question I would like to ask is should we expect the team, which will be involved in fixing input events and general Mir support, working somewhere around Ubuntu or this team is just the same team who are now busy with AT-SPI development around Linux Foundation? Evidently, it's reasonable to expect that everything should happen in the main AT-SPI source code tree, but since we are talking about Mir and Ubuntu Touch, the work can go somewhere else. Luke Yelavich writes: > On Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 06:20:18PM AEDT, Michael Pozhidaev wrote: >> Hi Luke, >> >> Luke Yelavich writes: >> >> > There is much to be done to get this off the ground. Given that >> > Canonical is writing its own display server Mir, the first requirement >> > is to properly tie in the accessibility infrastructure, mainly at-spi, >> > into working properly with Mir to intercept input events, and extend >> > at-spi itself to support touch. It would then be a matter of extending >> > Orca to work with touch, and not requiring Gtk support. In addition, >> > Qt's own linux accessibility support would likely need much work, >> > particularly the QML accessibility components. Ubuntu's QML based SDk >> > would also need much accessibility work. >> >> Yes, really a plenty of work to do. Could it be reasonable to try >> first getting some features for basic phone functions (just to have >> something for the beginning), and, after that try the work you have >> described? > > It is possible, but I am not sure how one would be able to find what they > need on screen without some way of the touch inputs being intercepted, > to make sure you don't activate something which you did not mean to > activate. Simple notifications like who is calling, incoming messages > could be done, but the problem as I see it, is then trying to get to the > appropriate app to re-read such data. > >> I know a bit about AT-SPI internals (Mike Gorse helped me a lot with >> that), and agree that this work is worthy enough to do, but will it let >> us get an accessible phone in observable future? > > That all depends on the number of developers who are involved to make this > happen. Extending at-spi to support touch events will likely need to be > done at some point for Wayland, so that could certainly be started now by > those of us who are keen to get it done. The real challenge is then tying > it in with the Mir display server that Canonical is using on the phone > already, which would likely require help from the Mir developers for best > results. They already have a high level understanding of what is needed, > but getting this working is not a priority for them right now. > > From what they told me, they would probably want Mir itself to assume > control for input interception, rather than at-spi itself, since they > don't want external processes to have access to any of Mir's input event > management data. > >> Is Ubuntu phone already on Mir or it still uses ordinary X.org? I am >> really impatient to try something (although don't have this phone >> yet). I am ready to try getting this phone, but I need to be sure >> that I will be able to have access to its internals. Otherwise, >> apparently , I will be unable to do anything at all. > > As above, Mir is used on the phone now. > >> I am planning to be in London from April 10th till 18th (and completely >> unaware when could get next chance to come to London). May I ask >> somebody to meet and let me know about this phone more please? If I get >> first understanding, I will purchase it for further experiments. I >> support everything what you have write and would be happy to participate >> in this development, but just want to have something to use as soon as >> possible. Just because I don't see nothing suitable arount instead. I >> don't trust Android, Tizen is completely unclear with its accessibility >> features, but Ubuntu phone is very inspirable also as a thing which I >> can improve myself. > > Sorry, I am not sure I am able to help here with advice as to who you could contact in London to try and get more info/help with the Ubuntu phone platform. > > Luke -- Michael Pozhidaev. Tomsk, Russia. Russian info page: http://www.marigostra.ru/ English info page: http://www.marigostra.com/ From ogra at ubuntu.com Wed Mar 2 10:17:09 2016 From: ogra at ubuntu.com (Oliver Grawert) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 11:17:09 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind In-Reply-To: <20160302000817.GA3757@buffalo> References: <20160301055105.GA4384@buffalo> <20160302000817.GA3757@buffalo> Message-ID: <1456913829.16369.59.camel@anubis> hi, Am Mittwoch, den 02.03.2016, 11:08 +1100 schrieb Luke Yelavich: > > Is Ubuntu phone already on Mir or it still uses ordinary X.org? I am > > really impatient to try something (although don't have this phone > > yet). I am ready to try getting this phone, but I need to be sure > > that I will be able to have access to its internals. Otherwise, > > apparently , I will be unable to do anything at all. > > As above, Mir is used on the phone now. Mir uses libinput, the same generic input layer that wayland uses. i would expect that there will be something happening upstream at some point to integrate at-spi with libinput (there is surely also work in Mir and unity8 required, but the lower input layer should be covered by upstream integration) ciao oli From burt1iband at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 17:26:43 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:26:43 -0600 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind In-Reply-To: <1456913829.16369.59.camel@anubis> References: <20160301055105.GA4384@buffalo> <20160302000817.GA3757@buffalo> <1456913829.16369.59.camel@anubis> Message-ID: <20160302172643.GA28671@gmail.com> I'd say it's not going to happen for you/get an android phone, or iphone if you must for now. Maybe the powers that be will care enough to invest paying Luke and perhaps someone to help him to get things working for us in a year or two, but I'm honestly not particularly optimistic. If they cared as much as I and many otrhers feel they should then accessibility would have been considered and developed from day one, and would be available in some rudamentary form now, something to keep die hard testers busy for the next months, maybe longer...smile -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Oliver Grawert wrote: Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 11:17:09AM +0100 > hi, > Am Mittwoch, den 02.03.2016, 11:08 +1100 schrieb Luke Yelavich: > > > > Is Ubuntu phone already on Mir or it still uses ordinary X.org? I am > > > really impatient to try something (although don't have this phone > > > yet). I am ready to try getting this phone, but I need to be sure > > > that I will be able to have access to its internals. Otherwise, > > > apparently , I will be unable to do anything at all. > > > > As above, Mir is used on the phone now. > > Mir uses libinput, the same generic input layer that wayland uses. > i would expect that there will be something happening upstream at some > point to integrate at-spi with libinput (there is surely also work in > Mir and unity8 required, but the lower input layer should be covered by > upstream integration) > > ciao > oli > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From milton at tomaatnet.nl Thu Mar 3 15:47:59 2016 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 16:47:59 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu phones and accessibility for the blind In-Reply-To: References: <20160301055105.GA4384@buffalo> <20160302000817.GA3757@buffalo> Message-ID: <56D85CAF.6050606@tomaatnet.nl> Maybe a point to start? https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/03/03/the-value-of-the-community/?_ga=1.26280317.1569423750.1450296328 Op 02-03-16 om 06:18 schreef Michael Pozhidaev: > Hi Luke, > > Thank you very much for the information you give! The only question I > would like to ask is should we expect the team, which will be involved > in fixing input events and general Mir support, working somewhere around > Ubuntu or this team is just the same team who are now busy with AT-SPI > development around Linux Foundation? > > Evidently, it's reasonable to expect that everything should happen > in the main AT-SPI source code tree, but since we are talking about Mir > and Ubuntu Touch, the work can go somewhere else. > > Luke Yelavich writes: > >> On Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 06:20:18PM AEDT, Michael Pozhidaev wrote: >>> Hi Luke, >>> >>> Luke Yelavich writes: >>> >>>> There is much to be done to get this off the ground. Given that >>>> Canonical is writing its own display server Mir, the first requirement >>>> is to properly tie in the accessibility infrastructure, mainly at-spi, >>>> into working properly with Mir to intercept input events, and extend >>>> at-spi itself to support touch. It would then be a matter of extending >>>> Orca to work with touch, and not requiring Gtk support. In addition, >>>> Qt's own linux accessibility support would likely need much work, >>>> particularly the QML accessibility components. Ubuntu's QML based SDk >>>> would also need much accessibility work. >>> >>> Yes, really a plenty of work to do. Could it be reasonable to try >>> first getting some features for basic phone functions (just to have >>> something for the beginning), and, after that try the work you have >>> described? >> >> It is possible, but I am not sure how one would be able to find what they >> need on screen without some way of the touch inputs being intercepted, >> to make sure you don't activate something which you did not mean to >> activate. Simple notifications like who is calling, incoming messages >> could be done, but the problem as I see it, is then trying to get to the >> appropriate app to re-read such data. >> >>> I know a bit about AT-SPI internals (Mike Gorse helped me a lot with >>> that), and agree that this work is worthy enough to do, but will it let >>> us get an accessible phone in observable future? >> >> That all depends on the number of developers who are involved to make this >> happen. Extending at-spi to support touch events will likely need to be >> done at some point for Wayland, so that could certainly be started now by >> those of us who are keen to get it done. The real challenge is then tying >> it in with the Mir display server that Canonical is using on the phone >> already, which would likely require help from the Mir developers for best >> results. They already have a high level understanding of what is needed, >> but getting this working is not a priority for them right now. >> >> From what they told me, they would probably want Mir itself to assume >> control for input interception, rather than at-spi itself, since they >> don't want external processes to have access to any of Mir's input event >> management data. >> >>> Is Ubuntu phone already on Mir or it still uses ordinary X.org? I am >>> really impatient to try something (although don't have this phone >>> yet). I am ready to try getting this phone, but I need to be sure >>> that I will be able to have access to its internals. Otherwise, >>> apparently , I will be unable to do anything at all. >> >> As above, Mir is used on the phone now. >> >>> I am planning to be in London from April 10th till 18th (and completely >>> unaware when could get next chance to come to London). May I ask >>> somebody to meet and let me know about this phone more please? If I get >>> first understanding, I will purchase it for further experiments. I >>> support everything what you have write and would be happy to participate >>> in this development, but just want to have something to use as soon as >>> possible. Just because I don't see nothing suitable arount instead. I >>> don't trust Android, Tizen is completely unclear with its accessibility >>> features, but Ubuntu phone is very inspirable also as a thing which I >>> can improve myself. >> >> Sorry, I am not sure I am able to help here with advice as to who you could contact in London to try and get more info/help with the Ubuntu phone platform. >> >> Luke > From vlcekpavel93 at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 08:34:47 2016 From: vlcekpavel93 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Pavel_Vl=c4=8dek?=) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:34:47 +0100 Subject: Some icons aren't spoken by Orca Message-ID: <56E677A7.5000703@gmail.com> Hi, I installed the latest daily build of Ubuntu to my laptop. I am testing it again and I found one small issue. Some icons in alt plus f10 panel aren't spoken by Orca. For example. Go to messages menu. You can see some icons and if Pidgin is installed, you can see four icons without accessibility description. I know that first is Thunderbird, second are contacts, thirt is new email and the last is Pidgin, but for Ubuntu beginners, this maybe a problem. The not spoken icons are in sound, messages etc. Is this reported, or can it be fixed? Thanks and sorry, English isn't my primary language. Pavel From jordy at vdslhosting.be Mon Mar 14 13:31:16 2016 From: jordy at vdslhosting.be (Vdsl Hosting | Jordy) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:31:16 +0100 Subject: No Braillesupport Message-ID: Hi all, I am new to Ubuntu 14.04.3 and Linux in general. I installed Ubuntu an hour ago and it works fine, I think. One thing I found is very strange! I have no braillesupport in Orca. It is Orca 3.10.x. If I check the checkbox that says “Enable braille”, it doesn’t change anything. I can wait five minutes an then the checkbox is automatically unchecked. Can anyone help me please?! Met vriendelijke groeten, Cher salutations, Best regards, Jordy Deweer. Support & Technische interventie Support & Intervention technique Support & Technical interventiion Dikowork VZW Tel. direct: +32(0)11/36.09.14 Email Direct: jordy at vdslhosting.be Contactgegevens Dikowork VZW Information contact Dikowork VZW Contactinformation Dikowork VZW Tel: +32(0)11/36.09.19 Fax: +32(0)11/36.09.18 Email: info at vdslhosting.be Email Support: support at vdslhosting.be Merk op dat op dit moment de VZW nog niet officieel is opgestart! Cette organisation n'est pas officièlement commençais! Note that this organisation isn't yet official started! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From themuso at ubuntu.com Tue Mar 15 02:22:16 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:22:16 +1100 Subject: No Braillesupport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160315022215.GA2567@buffalo> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:31:16AM AEDT, Vdsl Hosting | Jordy wrote: > Hi all, > > I am new to Ubuntu 14.04.3 and Linux in general. > > I installed Ubuntu an hour ago and it works fine, I think. One thing I found is > very strange! I have no braillesupport in Orca. It is Orca 3.10.x. > > If I check the checkbox that says “Enable braille”, it doesn’t change anything. > I can wait five minutes an then the checkbox is automatically unchecked. > > Can anyone help me please?! Firstly, it would be helpful if you stated what your Braille display is, and how it connects to your system. If you could reply with this information, that would help us with helping you. Thanks. Luke From themuso at ubuntu.com Tue Mar 15 02:24:01 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:24:01 +1100 Subject: Some icons aren't spoken by Orca In-Reply-To: <56E677A7.5000703@gmail.com> References: <56E677A7.5000703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160315022401.GB2567@buffalo> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 07:34:47PM AEDT, Pavel Vlček wrote: > Hi, > I installed the latest daily build of Ubuntu to my laptop. I am testing it > again and I found one small issue. Some icons in alt plus f10 panel aren't > spoken by Orca. For example. Go to messages menu. You can see some icons and > if Pidgin is installed, you can see four icons without accessibility > description. Yes, I can confirm this, I'll look into getting that sorted. Thanks. Luke From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 17 00:41:39 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: chromium orca accessibility Message-ID: So far as I can tell, that's not ready for prime time. I'm using unity and vinux flavor of ubuntu for now. One firefox extension that would probably be useful for orca users is pentadactyl since that is supposed to make firefox easier for keyboard users to use I didn't find that using aptitude or apt-cache search so figure I'll probably have to get it directly from mozilla's archives. Before I do attempt to install pentadactyl, has anyone on this list already had experience with the extension or add-on they'd be willing to share? -- From quirky.wizard at gmx.com Thu Mar 17 13:44:28 2016 From: quirky.wizard at gmx.com (Daniel Crone) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:44:28 -0500 Subject: introduction Message-ID: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> Hello one and all. My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through the years. I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. I am very new to linux. Before starting, I welcome anyone’s words of wisdom for a totally blind user, new to linux. I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, and the installer never finished. But that could be due to my machine’s being so old and slow. From the dvd, sonar worked very well. I hope ubuntu will be equally good. So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu team. I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each other. From coffeekingms at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:48:21 2016 From: coffeekingms at gmail.com (kendell clark) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:48:21 -0500 Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> Message-ID: <56EAB5A5.5060102@gmail.com> hi Once you've downloaded ubuntu mate, all that's needed to get accessibility going is to press alt+win+s. I *think* once this is done the login screen talks automatically, but in case it doesn't, press f4 at the login screen once the install is finished. I'd recommend the lts instead of 15.10, mainly because it's supported for much longer, and has the accessibility ppa preconfigured, which means as soon as a new orca and accessibility stack is released, you'll shortly get updates for them. Completely agree about linux accessibility people benefitting each other, I'm a sonar developer, but I'm also a linux user who depends on accessibility,and I recommend other distros, such as vinux, ubuntu, fedora and others, not just my own. Thanks Kendell Clark Daniel Crone wrote: > Hello one and all. > My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through the years. > I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. > I am very new to linux. > Before starting, I welcome anyone’s words of wisdom for a totally blind user, new to linux. > I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, and the installer never finished. > But that could be due to my machine’s being so old and slow. > From the dvd, sonar worked very well. > I hope ubuntu will be equally good. > So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu team. > I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each other. From quirky.wizard at gmx.com Thu Mar 17 13:48:57 2016 From: quirky.wizard at gmx.com (Daniel Crone) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:48:57 -0500 Subject: ubuntu mate, which version Message-ID: From Where may one get ubuntu mate? How can one know whether to use the 32 bit, or the 64 bit version? From alexarnaud at member.fsf.org Thu Mar 17 14:14:28 2016 From: alexarnaud at member.fsf.org (Alex ARNAUD) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:14:28 +0100 Subject: ubuntu mate, which version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56EABBC4.2020304@member.fsf.org> On 03/17/2016 02:48 PM, Daniel Crone wrote: > From Where may one get ubuntu mate? You can download it from the Ubuntu Mate download page . > How can one know whether to use the 32 bit, or the 64 bit version? You need to know the model of your processor then your can get the information from maybe the Intel, AMD or Wikipedia page. If you try a 64 bits installer on the 32 bits machine the installer wouldn't be able to start so can also determine that your hardware is 32 bits. Best regards. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 17 14:18:58 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> Message-ID: I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal you want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than gnome-terminal. The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox works pretty well from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app isn't accessible for orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now at least. Emacs is available and probably very accessible as a work environment which should help cover any of libreoffice's shortcomings. Thunderbird is easily crashed over here, but then again I'm a touch typist and have little tollerance for keyboard latency unless I get some kind of audio indication that something I've done is being worked. Some clicks from the speaker would help in this respect but I don't know that any form of Linux offers this feature that can be enabled yet. More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through this system. On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 > From: Daniel Crone > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: introduction > > Hello one and all. > My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through the years. > I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. > I am very new to linux. > Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally blind user, new to linux. > I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, and the installer never finished. > But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. > From the dvd, sonar worked very well. > I hope ubuntu will be equally good. > So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu team. > I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each other. > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- From coffeekingms at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 14:22:35 2016 From: coffeekingms at gmail.com (kendell clark) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:22:35 -0500 Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> Message-ID: <56EABDAB.80803@gmail.com> hi I think the thunderbird problems are thunderbird bugs. At least, if you're talking about the ridiculous lag when typing messages, that's a thunderbird thing from what I've been able to find out. There's also a lag when going through the list of messages if you have over a certain amount, not exactly sure what that amount is. Gnome will probably run on that machine, but it might not run well. Mate would be much much better for a computer with only a gig of ram, but even with mate you'll have to be careful not to run too many resource intensive apps, like libreoffice, at once. Thanks Kendell Clark Jude DaShiell wrote: > I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and > unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail > credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside > of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have > to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome > will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal > you want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than > gnome-terminal. The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox > works pretty well from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app > isn't accessible for orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now > at least. Emacs is available and probably very accessible as a work > environment which should help cover any of libreoffice's > shortcomings. Thunderbird is easily crashed over here, but then again > I'm a touch typist and have little tollerance for keyboard latency > unless I get some kind of audio indication that something I've done is > being worked. Some clicks from the speaker would help in this respect > but I don't know that any form of Linux offers this feature that can > be enabled yet. > More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through > this system. > > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 >> From: Daniel Crone >> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: introduction >> >> Hello one and all. >> My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems >> through the years. >> I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. >> I am very new to linux. >> Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally >> blind user, new to linux. >> I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, >> and the installer never finished. >> But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. >> From the dvd, sonar worked very well. >> I hope ubuntu will be equally good. >> So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the >> ubuntu team. >> I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit >> each other. >> -- >> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 17 14:29:24 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ubuntu mate, which version In-Reply-To: <56EABBC4.2020304@member.fsf.org> References: <56EABBC4.2020304@member.fsf.org> Message-ID: The lts version isn't available on that website, only 15.10 could be another website is used for lts. On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Alex ARNAUD wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:14:28 > From: Alex ARNAUD > To: Daniel Crone , > ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: ubuntu mate, which version > > On 03/17/2016 02:48 PM, Daniel Crone wrote: >> From Where may one get ubuntu mate? > You can download it from the Ubuntu Mate download page > . >> How can one know whether to use the 32 bit, or the 64 bit version? > You need to know the model of your processor then your can get the > information from maybe the Intel, AMD or Wikipedia page. If you try a 64 bits > installer on the 32 bits machine the installer wouldn't be able to start so > can also determine that your hardware is 32 bits. > > Best regards. > -- -------------- next part -------------- -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 17 14:34:19 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <56EABDAB.80803@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EABDAB.80803@gmail.com> Message-ID: Can thunderbird be controlled to the point where a limit on the number of messages downloaded can be imposed? If so, that might help its function. I have over 53,000 messages in my gmail account now so for sure unless I can limit amount of messages downloaded each time thunderbird will not be what I want to use. On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, kendell clark wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:22:35 > From: kendell clark > To: Jude DaShiell , Daniel Crone , > ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: introduction > > hi > I think the thunderbird problems are thunderbird bugs. At least, if > you're talking about the ridiculous lag when typing messages, that's a > thunderbird thing from what I've been able to find out. There's also a > lag when going through the list of messages if you have over a certain > amount, not exactly sure what that amount is. Gnome will probably run on > that machine, but it might not run well. Mate would be much much better > for a computer with only a gig of ram, but even with mate you'll have to > be careful not to run too many resource intensive apps, like > libreoffice, at once. > Thanks > Kendell Clark > > > Jude DaShiell wrote: >> I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and >> unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail >> credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside >> of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have >> to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome >> will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal >> you want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than >> gnome-terminal. The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox >> works pretty well from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app >> isn't accessible for orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now >> at least. Emacs is available and probably very accessible as a work >> environment which should help cover any of libreoffice's >> shortcomings. Thunderbird is easily crashed over here, but then again >> I'm a touch typist and have little tollerance for keyboard latency >> unless I get some kind of audio indication that something I've done is >> being worked. Some clicks from the speaker would help in this respect >> but I don't know that any form of Linux offers this feature that can >> be enabled yet. >> More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through >> this system. >> >> >> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: >> >>> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 >>> From: Daniel Crone >>> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> Subject: introduction >>> >>> Hello one and all. >>> My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems >>> through the years. >>> I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. >>> I am very new to linux. >>> Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally >>> blind user, new to linux. >>> I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, >>> and the installer never finished. >>> But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. >>> From the dvd, sonar worked very well. >>> I hope ubuntu will be equally good. >>> So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the >>> ubuntu team. >>> I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit >>> each other. >>> -- >>> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >>> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >> > > -- From chaltain at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 14:48:04 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:48:04 -0500 Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> Message-ID: <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> If you're running Vinux 5, you don't need to install Gnome. You can just go into options on the log on screen and choose between Mate, Unity and Gnome. Also, if you're running Unity, you shouldn't have any trouble running Gnome. Chromium may not work well with Orca, but I use Chrome with ChromeVox all of the time. I run Thunderbird with Gnome, and I don't have these issues. On 17/03/16 09:18, Jude DaShiell wrote: > I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and > unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail > credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside > of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have > to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome > will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal you > want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than gnome-terminal. > The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox works pretty well > from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app isn't accessible for > orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now at least. Emacs is > available and probably very accessible as a work environment which > should help cover any of libreoffice's shortcomings. Thunderbird is > easily crashed over here, but then again I'm a touch typist and have > little tollerance for keyboard latency unless I get some kind of audio > indication that something I've done is being worked. Some clicks from > the speaker would help in this respect but I don't know that any form of > Linux offers this feature that can be enabled yet. > More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through this > system. > > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 >> From: Daniel Crone >> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: introduction >> >> Hello one and all. >> My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through >> the years. >> I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. >> I am very new to linux. >> Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally >> blind user, new to linux. >> I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, >> and the installer never finished. >> But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. >> From the dvd, sonar worked very well. >> I hope ubuntu will be equally good. >> So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu >> team. >> I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each >> other. >> -- >> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From alexarnaud at member.fsf.org Thu Mar 17 14:40:19 2016 From: alexarnaud at member.fsf.org (Alex ARNAUD) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:40:19 +0100 Subject: ubuntu mate, which version In-Reply-To: References: <56EABBC4.2020304@member.fsf.org> Message-ID: <56EAC1D3.8010002@member.fsf.org> On 03/17/2016 03:29 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote: > The lts version isn't available on that website, only 15.10 could be > another website is used for lts. As I see Ubuntu Mate is more recent than Ubuntu 14.04 and the available Mate version for this Ubuntu release is Mate 1.6 that is not a good version in term of accessibility as I know. Maybe Kendell do you have more information about the latest LTS and Mate? Best regards. -- Alex ARNAUD From kyle4jesus at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 14:50:58 2016 From: kyle4jesus at gmail.com (Kyle) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:50:58 -0400 Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56EAC452.4070200@gmail.com> The main problem with Thunderbird is that it seems to freeze when your ~/.thunderbird directory gets too large. The best way to resolve this issue is to uncheck "store messages on this computer" from your account settings for each account. Hope this helps. Sent from my ordinary world From chaltain at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 14:52:35 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:52:35 -0500 Subject: chromium orca accessibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56EAC4B3.1000905@gmail.com> I don't see the original message, but if the question has to do with Chromium then I'll just add that I use Chrome and ChromeVox on my Vinux 5 system almost daily. On 16/03/16 19:41, Jude DaShiell wrote: > So far as I can tell, that's not ready for prime time. I'm using unity > and vinux flavor of ubuntu for now. One firefox extension that would > probably be useful for orca users is pentadactyl since that is supposed > to make firefox easier for keyboard users to use I didn't find that > using aptitude or apt-cache search so figure I'll probably have to get > it directly from mozilla's archives. Before I do attempt to install > pentadactyl, has anyone on this list already had experience with the > extension or add-on they'd be willing to share? > > > > -- > > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 17 14:53:07 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <56EAC452.4070200@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> <56EAC452.4070200@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, I'll try that. On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Kyle wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:50:58 > From: Kyle > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: introduction > > The main problem with Thunderbird is that it seems to freeze when your > ~/.thunderbird directory gets too large. The best way to resolve this issue > is to uncheck "store messages on this computer" from your account settings > for each account. Hope this helps. > > Sent from my ordinary world > > -- From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 17 14:55:32 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: chromium orca accessibility In-Reply-To: <56EAC4B3.1000905@gmail.com> References: <56EAC4B3.1000905@gmail.com> Message-ID: How did you get those installed? google keeps redirecting me to chromium. On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:52:35 > From: Christopher Chaltain > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: chromium orca accessibility > > I don't see the original message, but if the question has to do with Chromium > then I'll just add that I use Chrome and ChromeVox on my Vinux 5 system > almost daily. > > On 16/03/16 19:41, Jude DaShiell wrote: >> So far as I can tell, that's not ready for prime time. I'm using unity >> and vinux flavor of ubuntu for now. One firefox extension that would >> probably be useful for orca users is pentadactyl since that is supposed >> to make firefox easier for keyboard users to use I didn't find that >> using aptitude or apt-cache search so figure I'll probably have to get >> it directly from mozilla's archives. Before I do attempt to install >> pentadactyl, has anyone on this list already had experience with the >> extension or add-on they'd be willing to share? >> >> >> >> -- >> >> > > -- From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 17 15:02:21 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> Message-ID: What I downloaded now that it's installed doesn't offer a mate or gnome choice for session types but then again I didn't hit f4 on the login screen yet either and use of f4 may help. On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:48:04 > From: Christopher Chaltain > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: introduction > > If you're running Vinux 5, you don't need to install Gnome. You can just go > into options on the log on screen and choose between Mate, Unity and Gnome. > > Also, if you're running Unity, you shouldn't have any trouble running Gnome. > > Chromium may not work well with Orca, but I use Chrome with ChromeVox all of > the time. > > I run Thunderbird with Gnome, and I don't have these issues. > > On 17/03/16 09:18, Jude DaShiell wrote: >> I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and >> unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail >> credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside >> of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have >> to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome >> will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal you >> want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than gnome-terminal. >> The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox works pretty well >> from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app isn't accessible for >> orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now at least. Emacs is >> available and probably very accessible as a work environment which >> should help cover any of libreoffice's shortcomings. Thunderbird is >> easily crashed over here, but then again I'm a touch typist and have >> little tollerance for keyboard latency unless I get some kind of audio >> indication that something I've done is being worked. Some clicks from >> the speaker would help in this respect but I don't know that any form of >> Linux offers this feature that can be enabled yet. >> More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through this >> system. >> >> >> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: >> >>> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 >>> From: Daniel Crone >>> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> Subject: introduction >>> >>> Hello one and all. >>> My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through >>> the years. >>> I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. >>> I am very new to linux. >>> Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally >>> blind user, new to linux. >>> I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, >>> and the installer never finished. >>> But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. >>> From the dvd, sonar worked very well. >>> I hope ubuntu will be equally good. >>> So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu >>> team. >>> I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each >>> other. >>> -- >>> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >>> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >> > > -- From chaltain at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 15:15:31 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:15:31 -0500 Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56EACA13.7090102@gmail.com> If you're running vinux 5, then on the log on screen, just hit tab to go over to session options. After that hit space and then tab between Unity (the default), Gnome and Mate. Press enter and then log in and you should be running the desktop you selected. I'm doing this from memory, but I'm pretty sure this is accurate. I run Mate on my netbook, given it's limited resources. On my laptop, I ended up deciding I liked Gnome better, so I switched to that from Unity. All of this was possible because Vinux 5 let me choose between these three desktops right out of the box. A truly nice feature of Vinux 5! On 17/03/16 10:02, Jude DaShiell wrote: > What I downloaded now that it's installed doesn't offer a mate or gnome > choice for session types but then again I didn't hit f4 on the login > screen yet either and use of f4 may help. > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:48:04 >> From: Christopher Chaltain >> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: Re: introduction >> >> If you're running Vinux 5, you don't need to install Gnome. You can >> just go into options on the log on screen and choose between Mate, >> Unity and Gnome. >> >> Also, if you're running Unity, you shouldn't have any trouble running >> Gnome. >> >> Chromium may not work well with Orca, but I use Chrome with ChromeVox >> all of the time. >> >> I run Thunderbird with Gnome, and I don't have these issues. >> >> On 17/03/16 09:18, Jude DaShiell wrote: >>> I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and >>> unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail >>> credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside >>> of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have >>> to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome >>> will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal you >>> want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than gnome-terminal. >>> The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox works pretty well >>> from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app isn't accessible for >>> orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now at least. Emacs is >>> available and probably very accessible as a work environment which >>> should help cover any of libreoffice's shortcomings. Thunderbird is >>> easily crashed over here, but then again I'm a touch typist and have >>> little tollerance for keyboard latency unless I get some kind of audio >>> indication that something I've done is being worked. Some clicks from >>> the speaker would help in this respect but I don't know that any form of >>> Linux offers this feature that can be enabled yet. >>> More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through this >>> system. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: >>> >>>> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 >>>> From: Daniel Crone >>>> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>>> Subject: introduction >>>> >>>> Hello one and all. >>>> My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through >>>> the years. >>>> I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. >>>> I am very new to linux. >>>> Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally >>>> blind user, new to linux. >>>> I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, >>>> and the installer never finished. >>>> But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. >>>> From the dvd, sonar worked very well. >>>> I hope ubuntu will be equally good. >>>> So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu >>>> team. >>>> I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each >>>> other. >>>> -- >>>> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >>>> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >>> >> >> > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From chaltain at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 15:20:32 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:20:32 -0500 Subject: chromium orca accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <56EAC4B3.1000905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56EACB40.1080705@gmail.com> It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure I used option #2, installing from the Google PPA, on the following web page http://ubuntuportal.com/2014/04/how-to-install-google-chrome-web-browser-in-ubuntu-14-04-lts-trusty-tahr.html I used the Chrome web store to instal ChromeVox and the default female TTS from Google. I needed sighted assistance to do this originally. On 17/03/16 09:55, Jude DaShiell wrote: > How did you get those installed? google keeps redirecting me to chromium. > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:52:35 >> From: Christopher Chaltain >> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: Re: chromium orca accessibility >> >> I don't see the original message, but if the question has to do with >> Chromium then I'll just add that I use Chrome and ChromeVox on my >> Vinux 5 system almost daily. >> >> On 16/03/16 19:41, Jude DaShiell wrote: >>> So far as I can tell, that's not ready for prime time. I'm using unity >>> and vinux flavor of ubuntu for now. One firefox extension that would >>> probably be useful for orca users is pentadactyl since that is supposed >>> to make firefox easier for keyboard users to use I didn't find that >>> using aptitude or apt-cache search so figure I'll probably have to get >>> it directly from mozilla's archives. Before I do attempt to install >>> pentadactyl, has anyone on this list already had experience with the >>> extension or add-on they'd be willing to share? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >> >> > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From gervin at cableone.net Thu Mar 17 15:25:40 2016 From: gervin at cableone.net (Glenn / Lenny) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:25:40 -0500 Subject: Installing Linux, was Re: introduction Message-ID: <32CFA9304ACA43EFA365CC1E2916894B@LennyAcer5720> Hi All, I have found that when Orca stops talking during an install of Linux, I can make it work by threatening to exit with alt + F4 Then I press escape to cancel the cancellation of the install, and it is back to talking. I hope this helps others. Glenn------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Jude DaShiell To: Daniel Crone , ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal you want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than gnome-terminal. The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox works pretty well from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app isn't accessible for orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now at least. Emacs is available and probably very accessible as a work environment which should help cover any of libreoffice's shortcomings. Thunderbird is easily crashed over here, but then again I'm a touch typist and have little tollerance for keyboard latency unless I get some kind of audio indication that something I've done is being worked. Some clicks from the speaker would help in this respect but I don't know that any form of Linux offers this feature that can be enabled yet. More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through this system. On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 > From: Daniel Crone > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: introduction > > Hello one and all. > My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through the years. > I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. > I am very new to linux. > Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally blind user, new to linux. > I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, and the installer never finished. > But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. > From the dvd, sonar worked very well. > I hope ubuntu will be equally good. > So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu team. > I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each other. > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 17 15:30:23 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Installing Linux, was Re: introduction In-Reply-To: <32CFA9304ACA43EFA365CC1E2916894B@LennyAcer5720> References: <32CFA9304ACA43EFA365CC1E2916894B@LennyAcer5720> Message-ID: I had to do that with a mate install and it worked. I also found once a system is installed when orca stops talking hitting alt-f2 then typing orca --replace also works. Lots better than a three-finger salute. On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Glenn / Lenny wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:25:40 > From: Glenn / Lenny > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Installing Linux, was Re: introduction > > Hi All, > I have found that when Orca stops talking during an install of Linux, I can make it work by threatening to exit with alt + F4 > Then I press escape to cancel the cancellation of the install, and it is back to talking. > I hope this helps others. > Glenn------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jude DaShiell > To: Daniel Crone , > ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: introduction > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and > unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail > credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside > of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have > to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome > will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal you > want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than gnome-terminal. > The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox works pretty well > from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app isn't accessible for > orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now at least. Emacs is > available and probably very accessible as a work environment which > should help cover any of libreoffice's shortcomings. Thunderbird is > easily crashed over here, but then again I'm a touch typist and have > little tollerance for keyboard latency unless I get some kind of audio > indication that something I've done is being worked. Some clicks from > the speaker would help in this respect but I don't know that any form of > Linux offers this feature that can be enabled yet. > More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through this > system. > > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 >> From: Daniel Crone >> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: introduction >> >> Hello one and all. >> My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through the years. >> I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. >> I am very new to linux. >> Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally blind user, new to linux. >> I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, and the installer never finished. >> But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. >> From the dvd, sonar worked very well. >> I hope ubuntu will be equally good. >> So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu team. >> I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each other. >> -- >> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > -- -------------- next part -------------- -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From chaltain at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 15:38:10 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:38:10 -0500 Subject: Installing Linux, was Re: introduction In-Reply-To: References: <32CFA9304ACA43EFA365CC1E2916894B@LennyAcer5720> Message-ID: <56EACF62.4090502@gmail.com> Before using orca --replace, you can also try restarting Orca with the key sequence alt+super+s. On 17/03/16 10:30, Jude DaShiell wrote: > I had to do that with a mate install and it worked. I also found once a > system is installed when orca stops talking hitting alt-f2 then typing > orca --replace also works. Lots better than a three-finger salute. > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Glenn / Lenny wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:25:40 >> From: Glenn / Lenny >> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: Installing Linux, was Re: introduction >> >> Hi All, >> I have found that when Orca stops talking during an install of Linux, >> I can make it work by threatening to exit with alt + F4 >> Then I press escape to cancel the cancellation of the install, and it >> is back to talking. >> I hope this helps others. >> Glenn------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Jude DaShiell >> To: Daniel Crone , >> ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: Re: introduction >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >> >> I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and >> unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail >> credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside >> of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have >> to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome >> will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal you >> want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than gnome-terminal. >> The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox works pretty well >> from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app isn't accessible for >> orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now at least. Emacs is >> available and probably very accessible as a work environment which >> should help cover any of libreoffice's shortcomings. Thunderbird is >> easily crashed over here, but then again I'm a touch typist and have >> little tollerance for keyboard latency unless I get some kind of audio >> indication that something I've done is being worked. Some clicks from >> the speaker would help in this respect but I don't know that any form of >> Linux offers this feature that can be enabled yet. >> More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through this >> system. >> >> >> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: >> >>> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 >>> From: Daniel Crone >>> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> Subject: introduction >>> >>> Hello one and all. >>> My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems >>> through the years. >>> I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. >>> I am very new to linux. >>> Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally >>> blind user, new to linux. >>> I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, >>> and the installer never finished. >>> But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. >>> From the dvd, sonar worked very well. >>> I hope ubuntu will be equally good. >>> So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the >>> ubuntu team. >>> I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit >>> each other. >>> -- >>> Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list >>> Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility >> >> > > > > > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From quirky.wizard at gmx.com Thu Mar 17 16:44:28 2016 From: quirky.wizard at gmx.com (Daniel Crone) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:44:28 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 12, temporary solution Message-ID: <10232CFF-1C86-4EF3-8C08-9C0F92293EC9@gmx.com> I dug out an ubuntu 12 stick, and installed it to my hard drive. I know it is old, but I will use it to burn a ubuntu mate disk. But in the mean time, is there a way to back up my whole system, so that if I like, I could install it, without having to reconfigure everything? From burt1iband at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 18:23:28 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:23:28 -0600 Subject: ubuntu 12, temporary solution In-Reply-To: <10232CFF-1C86-4EF3-8C08-9C0F92293EC9@gmx.com> References: <10232CFF-1C86-4EF3-8C08-9C0F92293EC9@gmx.com> Message-ID: <20160317182328.GA24544@gmail.com> What system do you want to back up, i.e. what OS, distro if Linux, a system that is currently installed, or the ubuntu-mate you say you are going to install? Have you installed a lot of extra software beyond what came on the installer image you used? Is all the extra software you installed in repos, or did you build anything from source or install .deb packages you downloaded? The short answer if you are talking Linux and did not make a seperate /home directory is to copy your whole /home directory, e.g. something like /home/dan, somewhere. I've done this with anormal cp command, or from a file manager, but better would be to use rsync. Unless you have done some editing of files in /etc/ most of your settings are in that home directory. You can then just reinstall the programs you added, and voila. Answer the questions above and we can give more specifics. Also, are you talking about reinstalling the system to the same computer where it was installed, or putting it on a different one? -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Daniel Crone wrote: Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 11:44:28AM -0500 > I dug out an ubuntu 12 stick, and installed it to my hard drive. > I know it is old, but I will use it to burn a ubuntu mate disk. > But in the mean time, is there a way to back up my whole system, so that if I like, I could install it, without having to reconfigure everything? > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility End of quoted content -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From burt1iband at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 18:58:25 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:58:25 -0600 Subject: chromium orca accessibility In-Reply-To: <56EACB40.1080705@gmail.com> References: <56EAC4B3.1000905@gmail.com> <56EACB40.1080705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160317185825.GA24695@gmail.com> Last I heard, chromium was not working with the google TTSs at all. As chrome isworking with speech-dispatcher again maybe chromium is working with sd again also. It did not work as well as chrome back when it could be used with chromevox and speech-dispatcher, but was usable for me. Others found it much buggier. Chrome isstill a better choice as far as I know. You canjust download and install and repos will be enabled as well. Then make an extensions directory in /opt/google/chrome/ and copy a file I'll attach there. then start chrome with the --enable-speech-dispatcher option, and a while later hopefully chromevox will install and you will get speech. I think chromevox actually installs with voices now, but as I've had my configuration synced for years now I do not know exactly what new installers get. Try starting chrome normally with out the option and see if you get the female voice. Those voice files are probably large, so the download might take a while on slower connections, so be pasient and or ask some one to take a look and see if things appear to be installing. Once you do have chrome talking log in and make sure your configuration is going to sync/think extension syncing is default, but I'm not sure. Then all you will need is someone to tell you where the username and pw fields are if you install chrome on another box. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Christopher Chaltain wrote: Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:20:32AM -0500 > It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure I used option #2, installing > from the Google PPA, on the following web page http://ubuntuportal.com/2014/04/how-to-install-google-chrome-web-browser-in-ubuntu-14-04-lts-trusty-tahr.html > > I used the Chrome web store to instal ChromeVox and the default > female TTS from Google. I needed sighted assistance to do this > originally. > > On 17/03/16 09:55, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >How did you get those installed? google keeps redirecting me to chromium. > > > >On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > > > >>Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:52:35 > >>From: Christopher Chaltain > >>To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > >>Subject: Re: chromium orca accessibility > >> > >>I don't see the original message, but if the question has to do with > >>Chromium then I'll just add that I use Chrome and ChromeVox on my > >>Vinux 5 system almost daily. > >> > >>On 16/03/16 19:41, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >>>So far as I can tell, that's not ready for prime time. I'm using unity > >>>and vinux flavor of ubuntu for now. One firefox extension that would > >>>probably be useful for orca users is pentadactyl since that is supposed > >>>to make firefox easier for keyboard users to use I didn't find that > >>>using aptitude or apt-cache search so figure I'll probably have to get > >>>it directly from mozilla's archives. Before I do attempt to install > >>>pentadactyl, has anyone on this list already had experience with the > >>>extension or add-on they'd be willing to share? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility End of quoted content -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kgejglhpjiefppelpmljglcjbhoiplfn.json Type: application/json Size: 79 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From burt1iband at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 20:10:30 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:10:30 -0600 Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160317201030.GA24951@gmail.com> It is something specific to your system if mate term is faster. It's as close to the same thing as is possible, was actually the exact same size, and had 0 differences one time when I dcompared. Thunderbird works perfectly with unity. It sounds like something is messed up, corrupted or badly configured if you are having the problems mentiioned, Jude. Gnome is notably lighter than unity when it comes to RAM usage. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Christopher Chaltain wrote: Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 09:48:04AM -0500 > If you're running Vinux 5, you don't need to install Gnome. You can > just go into options on the log on screen and choose between Mate, > Unity and Gnome. > > Also, if you're running Unity, you shouldn't have any trouble running Gnome. > > Chromium may not work well with Orca, but I use Chrome with > ChromeVox all of the time. > > I run Thunderbird with Gnome, and I don't have these issues. > > On 17/03/16 09:18, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and > >unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail > >credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside > >of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have > >to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome > >will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal you > >want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than gnome-terminal. > >The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox works pretty well > >from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app isn't accessible for > >orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now at least. Emacs is > >available and probably very accessible as a work environment which > >should help cover any of libreoffice's shortcomings. Thunderbird is > >easily crashed over here, but then again I'm a touch typist and have > >little tollerance for keyboard latency unless I get some kind of audio > >indication that something I've done is being worked. Some clicks from > >the speaker would help in this respect but I don't know that any form of > >Linux offers this feature that can be enabled yet. > >More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through this > >system. > > > > > >On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: > > > >>Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 > >>From: Daniel Crone > >>To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > >>Subject: introduction > >> > >>Hello one and all. > >>My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through > >>the years. > >>I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. > >>I am very new to linux. > >>Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally > >>blind user, new to linux. > >>I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, > >>and the installer never finished. > >>But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. > >>From the dvd, sonar worked very well. > >>I hope ubuntu will be equally good. > >>So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu > >>team. > >>I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each > >>other. > >>-- > >>Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > >>Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > >>https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility End of quoted content -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 17 22:02:17 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <20160317201030.GA24951@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> <20160317201030.GA24951@gmail.com> Message-ID: Gnome being lighter is a good thing to know, I did another install and cleared the disk before that and I can bring mate up this time but it wasn't worth bringing up after all. I get notified wifi networks are available but can't get anywhere close enough to select one for use. The nearest I got was windows network. When I got some wifi network connection up with unity I selected a hidden wifi network and configured it. No such option available in mate so far as I can tell. This time when I did the install I had my wifi adapter disconnected and for that reason didn't install any updates either. Once the installation gets going, so far as I can tell the screen saver comes on and shuts it down unless I hit the tab key regularly throughout the install process. With unity, I remember configuring a vpn was offered and I hit uparrow and when I did that got asked for the name of my network and its password and type of network security. Once I filled all of that information in, I got myself connected. -- -------------- next part -------------- It is something specific to your system if mate term is faster. It's as close to the same thing as is possible, was actually the exact same size, and had 0 differences one time when I dcompared. Thunderbird works perfectly with unity. It sounds like something is messed up, corrupted or badly configured if you are having the problems mentiioned, Jude. Gnome is notably lighter than unity when it comes to RAM usage. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Christopher Chaltain wrote: Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 09:48:04AM -0500 > If you're running Vinux 5, you don't need to install Gnome. You can > just go into options on the log on screen and choose between Mate, > Unity and Gnome. > > Also, if you're running Unity, you shouldn't have any trouble running Gnome. > > Chromium may not work well with Orca, but I use Chrome with > ChromeVox all of the time. > > I run Thunderbird with Gnome, and I don't have these issues. > > On 17/03/16 09:18, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >I have vinux5 installed which runs unity and found out thunderbird and > >unity don't like each other very much. I was able to enter my gmail > >credentials and get to the inbox using I think it was shift-f10 inside > >of thunderbird but haven't got email down for reading yet. I may have > >to install gnome but with only a gig of ram on my athelon X86_64 gnome > >will probably crash the computer. Inside mate to get to a terminal you > >want to run mate-terminal since that runs faster than gnome-terminal. > >The mate-terminal also works under unity. Firefox works pretty well > >from my limited use of it so far. The chromium app isn't accessible for > >orca at all and isn't worth messing with for now at least. Emacs is > >available and probably very accessible as a work environment which > >should help cover any of libreoffice's shortcomings. Thunderbird is > >easily crashed over here, but then again I'm a touch typist and have > >little tollerance for keyboard latency unless I get some kind of audio > >indication that something I've done is being worked. Some clicks from > >the speaker would help in this respect but I don't know that any form of > >Linux offers this feature that can be enabled yet. > >More than that I don't yet know but will find out as I hack through this > >system. > > > > > >On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: > > > >>Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:44:28 > >>From: Daniel Crone > >>To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > >>Subject: introduction > >> > >>Hello one and all. > >>My name is Daniel, and I have used different operating systems through > >>the years. > >>I have decided to give ubuntu mate a try. > >>I am very new to linux. > >>Before starting, I welcome anyone?s words of wisdom for a totally > >>blind user, new to linux. > >>I liked the idea of sonar, but I have tried to install several times, > >>and the installer never finished. > >>But that could be due to my machine?s being so old and slow. > >>From the dvd, sonar worked very well. > >>I hope ubuntu will be equally good. > >>So, hats off to all, those on the sonar team, and to all on the ubuntu > >>team. > >>I would really like for all linux accessibility people to benefit each > >>other. > >>-- > >>Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > >>Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > >>https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility > > > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility End of quoted content -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From coffeekingms at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 05:33:10 2016 From: coffeekingms at gmail.com (kendell clark) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 00:33:10 -0500 Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <20160317201030.GA24951@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> <20160317201030.GA24951@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56EB9316.2040701@gmail.com> hi One thing I've noticed about mate, and probably other desktops as well, is that they seem to have some kind of algorithm for measuring how much ram a system has and adjusting how they use ram accordingly. On my system, which has 8 gb of it, mate isn't all that resource efficient in the ram department, usually idling at around 700 to 800 mb used. However, on my mac and on mellisa's toshiba, mate idles at around 350 mb used, and there's zero difference in performance. Gnome and unity probably do the same thing, but they also use more effects so can be a little heavier on the system. The biggest problem with unity and gnome is, my opinion only, cpu usage. They use up a lot of the cpu cycles if you have a slow one, and that can make the thing feel sluggish or unresponsive. It's why I switched from gnome to mate on my mac, gnome did not like my mac much. Thanks Kendell Clark B. Henry wrote: > It is something specific to your system if mate term is faster. It's as close to the same thing as is possible, was actually the exact same size, and > had 0 differences one time when I dcompared. > Thunderbird works perfectly with unity. It sounds like something is messed up, corrupted or badly configured if you are having the problems mentiioned, > Jude. > Gnome is notably lighter than unity when it comes to RAM usage. > > > > > > > > From quirky.wizard at gmx.com Fri Mar 18 09:39:43 2016 From: quirky.wizard at gmx.com (Daniel Crone) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 04:39:43 -0500 Subject: just a suggestion Message-ID: <6F1FED47-6294-4474-A793-636DDE24368D@gmx.com> Hello everyone. I know I am new here, but I wish to offer a suggestion. I wrote an introduction, and people replied. Thanks. Then some wrote about other matters, but the subject stayed the same. Since some might like to search messages by thread on the website, would it not be more logical to give a message its own subject, if it differs from what came before? I would like to know what you think. From chaltain at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 13:47:40 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 08:47:40 -0500 Subject: Subjects and threads [was "Re: just a suggestion"] In-Reply-To: <6F1FED47-6294-4474-A793-636DDE24368D@gmx.com> References: <6F1FED47-6294-4474-A793-636DDE24368D@gmx.com> Message-ID: <56EC06FC.6050402@gmail.com> Yes, and going further, you should use a new message to start a new discussion. Replying to a message to start a new discussion, even if you change the subject line, is called hijacking a thread, and it'll potentially mean people won't see that message if they use a threaded email client, such as Thunderbird. On 18/03/16 04:39, Daniel Crone wrote: > Hello everyone. > I know I am new here, but I wish to offer a suggestion. > I wrote an introduction, and people replied. Thanks. > Then some wrote about other matters, but the subject stayed the same. > Since some might like to search messages by thread on the website, would it not be more logical to give a message its own subject, if it differs from what came before? > I would like to know what you think. > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From jdashiel at panix.com Fri Mar 18 17:36:17 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <56EB9316.2040701@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> <20160317201030.GA24951@gmail.com> <56EB9316.2040701@gmail.com> Message-ID: On the old tower, for talkingarchlinux I had to download another package so talkingarchlinux would use both cores when needed. It would be helpful if these graphical systems would take advantage of dual cores and quad cores when available. I installed gnome and think the most the old tower will handle will be mate in future. Hitting alt-f1 brings up an empty window or what sounds like an empty window on gnome. However, I did get wifi up and working on gnome that's similar to unity at least where I find the hidden wifi network button. Even with the empty window hitting first letters of options opened those options up and got me to computer hardware and network then I tabbed to vpn and hit cancel button and tabbed past use as hot spot and found use hideen wifi network button and went in there and answered questions and hit connect and I was good to go. On Fri, 18 Mar 2016, kendell clark wrote: > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 01:33:10 > From: kendell clark > To: B. Henry , ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: introduction > > hi > One thing I've noticed about mate, and probably other desktops as well, > is that they seem to have some kind of algorithm for measuring how much > ram a system has and adjusting how they use ram accordingly. On my > system, which has 8 gb of it, mate isn't all that resource efficient in > the ram department, usually idling at around 700 to 800 mb used. > However, on my mac and on mellisa's toshiba, mate idles at around 350 mb > used, and there's zero difference in performance. Gnome and unity > probably do the same thing, but they also use more effects so can be a > little heavier on the system. The biggest problem with unity and gnome > is, my opinion only, cpu usage. They use up a lot of the cpu cycles if > you have a slow one, and that can make the thing feel sluggish or > unresponsive. It's why I switched from gnome to mate on my mac, gnome > did not like my mac much. > Thanks > Kendell Clark > > > B. Henry wrote: >> It is something specific to your system if mate term is faster. It's as close to the same thing as is possible, was actually the exact same size, and >> had 0 differences one time when I dcompared. >> Thunderbird works perfectly with unity. It sounds like something is messed up, corrupted or badly configured if you are having the problems mentiioned, >> Jude. >> Gnome is notably lighter than unity when it comes to RAM usage. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- From coffeekingms at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 17:55:53 2016 From: coffeekingms at gmail.com (kendell clark) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 12:55:53 -0500 Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> <20160317201030.GA24951@gmail.com> <56EB9316.2040701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56EC4129.9070803@gmail.com> hi It's not an empty window exactly, it's where you start typing to find applications and files to work with. It's supposed to say something like "activities overview. Type to search text" but there's been a bug for years that hasn't been fixed. There's also a dash on the left side gotten to by pressing alt+control+tab until you hear "dash push button" that's similar to the unity dock, although I don't think removable devices show up on it. Thanks Kendell Clark Jude DaShiell wrote: > On the old tower, for talkingarchlinux I had to download another > package so talkingarchlinux would use both cores when needed. It > would be helpful if these graphical systems would take advantage of > dual cores and quad cores when available. I installed gnome and think > the most the old tower will handle will be mate in future. Hitting > alt-f1 brings up an empty window or what sounds like an empty window > on gnome. > > However, I did get wifi up and working on gnome that's similar to > unity at least where I find the hidden wifi network button. Even with > the empty window hitting first letters of options opened those > options up and got me to computer hardware and network then I tabbed > to vpn and hit cancel button and tabbed past use as hot spot and found > use hideen wifi network button and went in there and answered > questions and hit connect and I was good to go. > > On Fri, 18 Mar 2016, kendell clark wrote: > >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 01:33:10 >> From: kendell clark >> To: B. Henry , >> ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: Re: introduction >> >> hi >> One thing I've noticed about mate, and probably other desktops as well, >> is that they seem to have some kind of algorithm for measuring how much >> ram a system has and adjusting how they use ram accordingly. On my >> system, which has 8 gb of it, mate isn't all that resource efficient in >> the ram department, usually idling at around 700 to 800 mb used. >> However, on my mac and on mellisa's toshiba, mate idles at around 350 mb >> used, and there's zero difference in performance. Gnome and unity >> probably do the same thing, but they also use more effects so can be a >> little heavier on the system. The biggest problem with unity and gnome >> is, my opinion only, cpu usage. They use up a lot of the cpu cycles if >> you have a slow one, and that can make the thing feel sluggish or >> unresponsive. It's why I switched from gnome to mate on my mac, gnome >> did not like my mac much. >> Thanks >> Kendell Clark >> >> >> B. Henry wrote: >>> It is something specific to your system if mate term is faster. It's >>> as close to the same thing as is possible, was actually the exact >>> same size, and >>> had 0 differences one time when I dcompared. >>> Thunderbird works perfectly with unity. It sounds like something is >>> messed up, corrupted or badly configured if you are having the >>> problems mentiioned, >>> Jude. >>> Gnome is notably lighter than unity when it comes to RAM usage. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > From burt1iband at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 18:19:37 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 12:19:37 -0600 Subject: Resource usage was: introduction In-Reply-To: <56EB9316.2040701@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> <20160317201030.GA24951@gmail.com> <56EB9316.2040701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160318181937.GB31063@gmail.com> I am reffering to both minimum hardware requirements and comparing the desktops on the same hardware. Linux in general will use as much RAM as is available up to the point where performance is optimal, and then use swap space. This is a good thing of course as RAM is much faster than reading from and writing to disk. Older windows would use the windows equibalent of swap more than it should have for optimal performance. When I had only 1gig of RAM unity used a lot of swap space, and even gnome2.x had programs swapping stuff out of course. I could tell the difference in performance between a machine with 1GB and another with 1.5GB with identical specs other than that. I avoid multitasking in the GUI more than most, and for me it appears that 1.5GB is the oint where adding more RAM has little if any effect on performance with Desktops like XFCE, or Mate. Of course that would not be true if one keeps several windows open with resource hungry aps. There are other things that effect memory consumption of course as well, notably non executable data is cached, so if you open many different files you chip away... I was running 32bit OSs BTW on the machines with 1 and 1.5gigs of RAM, not sure if usage would vary enough to change my observations if they had run 64bit opperating systems. Unity certainly will benefit from more memory. KDE is supposed to be rather resource hungry, but I've never run it. If you do not multitask 3GB is enough RAM to avoid most need for swap on 64bit systems running gnome and even Unity for me, and personally I don't think I would benefit often at all from more than 4GB of RAM. Of course your mileage may vary, and through in a program with memory leaks and everything goes to hell. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 kendell clark wrote: Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 12:33:10AM -0500 > hi > One thing I've noticed about mate, and probably other desktops as well, > is that they seem to have some kind of algorithm for measuring how much > ram a system has and adjusting how they use ram accordingly. On my > system, which has 8 gb of it, mate isn't all that resource efficient in > the ram department, usually idling at around 700 to 800 mb used. > However, on my mac and on mellisa's toshiba, mate idles at around 350 mb > used, and there's zero difference in performance. Gnome and unity > probably do the same thing, but they also use more effects so can be a > little heavier on the system. The biggest problem with unity and gnome > is, my opinion only, cpu usage. They use up a lot of the cpu cycles if > you have a slow one, and that can make the thing feel sluggish or > unresponsive. It's why I switched from gnome to mate on my mac, gnome > did not like my mac much. > Thanks > Kendell Clark > > > B. Henry wrote: > > It is something specific to your system if mate term is faster. It's as close to the same thing as is possible, was actually the exact same size, and > > had 0 differences one time when I dcompared. > > Thunderbird works perfectly with unity. It sounds like something is messed up, corrupted or badly configured if you are having the problems mentiioned, > > Jude. > > Gnome is notably lighter than unity when it comes to RAM usage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End of quoted content -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From burt1iband at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 18:25:32 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 12:25:32 -0600 Subject: introduction In-Reply-To: <56EB9316.2040701@gmail.com> References: <9DABCCBB-8EB1-404F-93CA-3185CF727827@gmx.com> <56EAC3A4.7060509@gmail.com> <20160317201030.GA24951@gmail.com> <56EB9316.2040701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160318182532.GC31063@gmail.com> Well, today I think the desktops use available cpu wisely for the most part, nd for years boot stuff runs in parallel by default when posible. Of course there is still a lot of software that does not take advantage of multiple cores, and I am pretty sure that most does not take advantage of multiple threading. Some allow you to configure how many cores are available for it to use. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 kendell clark wrote: Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 12:33:10AM -0500 > hi > One thing I've noticed about mate, and probably other desktops as well, > is that they seem to have some kind of algorithm for measuring how much > ram a system has and adjusting how they use ram accordingly. On my > system, which has 8 gb of it, mate isn't all that resource efficient in > the ram department, usually idling at around 700 to 800 mb used. > However, on my mac and on mellisa's toshiba, mate idles at around 350 mb > used, and there's zero difference in performance. Gnome and unity > probably do the same thing, but they also use more effects so can be a > little heavier on the system. The biggest problem with unity and gnome > is, my opinion only, cpu usage. They use up a lot of the cpu cycles if > you have a slow one, and that can make the thing feel sluggish or > unresponsive. It's why I switched from gnome to mate on my mac, gnome > did not like my mac much. > Thanks > Kendell Clark > > > B. Henry wrote: > > It is something specific to your system if mate term is faster. It's as close to the same thing as is possible, was actually the exact same size, and > > had 0 differences one time when I dcompared. > > Thunderbird works perfectly with unity. It sounds like something is messed up, corrupted or badly configured if you are having the problems mentiioned, > > Jude. > > Gnome is notably lighter than unity when it comes to RAM usage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End of quoted content -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From burt1iband at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 19:07:10 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:07:10 -0600 Subject: Subject lines was: just a suggestion In-Reply-To: <6F1FED47-6294-4474-A793-636DDE24368D@gmx.com> References: <6F1FED47-6294-4474-A793-636DDE24368D@gmx.com> Message-ID: <20160318190709.GF31063@gmail.com> Yes, and I generally do this when I change the topic, but occasionaly do forget. I also often change the subject line even when I did not change the subject myself, and even bring this up frequently enough that I sometimes worry that folks will get tired of me trying to correct bad posting practices. Please join me in this crusade so that there is more than one of us to hate...lol In the same vane many people start a conversation with a subject that gives little or no idea as to what is being discussed or what question is asked. I do delete email that does not interest me when I know I am unlikely to be able to contribute any thing useful to the conversation, and often delete imprecisely subjected messages. More often I do answer a person once or twice and give them a reminder about making good subject lines, and sometimes I just answer, but I certainly think spending a few seconds coming up with an explanatory subject for an email is the least one can do if they are asking for help. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Daniel Crone wrote: Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 04:39:43AM -0500 > Hello everyone. > I know I am new here, but I wish to offer a suggestion. > I wrote an introduction, and people replied. Thanks. > Then some wrote about other matters, but the subject stayed the same. > Since some might like to search messages by thread on the website, would it not be more logical to give a message its own subject, if it differs from what came before? > I would like to know what you think. > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility End of quoted content -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chaltain at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 23:55:08 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:55:08 -0500 Subject: Subject lines was: just a suggestion In-Reply-To: <20160318190709.GF31063@gmail.com> References: <6F1FED47-6294-4474-A793-636DDE24368D@gmx.com> <20160318190709.GF31063@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56EC955C.7000801@gmail.com> I think it's OK to encourage people to use good posting practices, but in general, I leave this up to the moderators of the various lists I'm on. I definitely don't say anything though unless it's chronic or I don't think the person is aware of what they're doing. Too much list traffic on posting etiquette can defeat the purpose of using good posting etiquette in the first place, by adding a lot of off topic traffic itself. The other thing I do is appeal to someone's motivation. You'll get more people looking at your message if you use a good subject line and don't hijack another thread. You can only go so far in policing someone else's posting habits, and it's perfectly OK to delete someone's message if they didn't use a good subject line, hijacked someone else's thread, didn't spell check or whatever. There's plenty to read on the web and don't let someone else's poor habits waste your time. On 18/03/16 14:07, B. Henry wrote: > Yes, and I generally do this when I change the topic, but occasionaly do forget. > I also often change the subject line even when I did not change the subject myself, and even bring this up frequently enough that I sometimes worry that > folks will get tired of me trying to correct bad posting practices. > Please join me in this crusade so that there is more than one of us to hate...lol > In the same vane many people start a conversation with a subject that gives little or no idea as to what is being discussed or what question is asked. > I do delete email that does not interest me when I know I am unlikely to be able to contribute any thing useful to the conversation, and often delete > imprecisely subjected messages. > More often I do answer a person once or twice and give them a reminder about making good subject lines, and sometimes I just answer, but I certainly > think spending a few seconds coming up with an explanatory subject for an email is the least one can do if they are asking for help. > > > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From burt1iband at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 00:25:59 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:25:59 -0600 Subject: Subject lines was: just a suggestion In-Reply-To: <56EC955C.7000801@gmail.com> References: <6F1FED47-6294-4474-A793-636DDE24368D@gmx.com> <20160318190709.GF31063@gmail.com> <56EC955C.7000801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160319002558.GA1307@gmail.com> Of course, explaining the benefits of good subject lines, etc is most of the message, and no, you can not repeat this daily either. I don't like much list moderation, but do sometimes think when someone signs on to a list they should have to answer a couple or three questions correctly indicating that they understand what is expected from posters, and understanding that one does not reply to digest email, highjack conversation threads, nor post messages with subject lines that are more or list the list's name would cover most of it. One thing I've only mentioned a couple or three times in my life that I find a bit annoying in most cases is digitally signing list mil. If you are attaching code then the sig makes some sense to me, but normally it's more clutter tht is a bit more of a bother to blind folk than to others. I was writing rather tongue in cheeck when I used the word crusade, and again I want to stress that I agree with you in that friendly suggestions are the way to go. I'm done with this conversation. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Christopher Chaltain wrote: Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 06:55:08PM -0500 > I think it's OK to encourage people to use good posting practices, > but in general, I leave this up to the moderators of the various > lists I'm on. I definitely don't say anything though unless it's > chronic or I don't think the person is aware of what they're doing. > Too much list traffic on posting etiquette can defeat the purpose of > using good posting etiquette in the first place, by adding a lot of > off topic traffic itself. > > The other thing I do is appeal to someone's motivation. You'll get > more people looking at your message if you use a good subject line > and don't hijack another thread. You can only go so far in policing > someone else's posting habits, and it's perfectly OK to delete > someone's message if they didn't use a good subject line, hijacked > someone else's thread, didn't spell check or whatever. There's > plenty to read on the web and don't let someone else's poor habits > waste your time. > > On 18/03/16 14:07, B. Henry wrote: > >Yes, and I generally do this when I change the topic, but occasionaly do forget. > >I also often change the subject line even when I did not change the subject myself, and even bring this up frequently enough that I sometimes worry that > >folks will get tired of me trying to correct bad posting practices. > >Please join me in this crusade so that there is more than one of us to hate...lol > >In the same vane many people start a conversation with a subject that gives little or no idea as to what is being discussed or what question is asked. > >I do delete email that does not interest me when I know I am unlikely to be able to contribute any thing useful to the conversation, and often delete > >imprecisely subjected messages. > >More often I do answer a person once or twice and give them a reminder about making good subject lines, and sometimes I just answer, but I certainly > >think spending a few seconds coming up with an explanatory subject for an email is the least one can do if they are asking for help. > > > > > > > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility End of quoted content -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vlcekpavel93 at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 17:34:14 2016 From: vlcekpavel93 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGF2ZWwgVmzEjWVr?=) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:34:14 +0100 Subject: Orca 3.20 in ubuntu 16.04 question Message-ID: Hi, Orca 3.20.0 is here. Is here a chance to be released in Ubuntu 16.04, or 3.18.2 will be included in 16.04? I don't know Ubuntu release plan. Can I read it somewhere? Thanks, Pavel From greggay at rogers.com Tue Mar 22 22:08:35 2016 From: greggay at rogers.com (Greg Gay) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:08:35 -0400 Subject: W4A2016 Call for Participation Message-ID: <56F1C263.5030202@rogers.com> W4A2016 Call for Participation We invite you to participate in the W4A2016 conference! Please see the details below. The 13th International Web for All Cross-Disciplinary Conference on Web Accessibility W4A 2016 (#w4a2016), co-located with the 25th International World Wide Web Conference WWW2016, will take place in Montreal, Canada on 11-13 April 2016. CONFERENCE THEME Education for All on the Web FULL PROGRAM Full Program available at: http://www.w4a.info/2016/program/ REGISTRATION, FEES AND ACCOMMODATION Registration: http://www2016.ca/registration.html Fees: $565.00CAD (US$425) (regular) and $ 375.00CAD (US$280) (students) Accommodation: http://www2016.ca/plan-your-trip/hotel-reservation.html KEYNOTES http://www.w4a.info/2016/keynotes/ - Jutta Treviranus (Director and professor at the Inclusive Design Research Centre, OCAD University, Canada) on “Life-Long Learning on the Inclusive Web” - William Loughborough After-Dinner Talk delivered by Jennison Asuncion (co-founder Global Accessibility Awareness Day): “On Digital Accessibility: Where do we need to go from here?” PROGRAM (at a glance) MONDAY, April 11 - for more info see: http://www.w4a.info/2016/program/ 8:00 - 9:00 Registration 9:00 - 9:15 Opening 9:15 - 10:30 Keynote 10:30 - 11:00 Coffee 11:00 - 11:40 Session 2 - IBM Persons with Disabilities Awards 11:40 - 12:30 Session 3 - Accessibility Challenges 12:30 - 14:00 Lunch 14:00 - 14:30 Session 4: Web Accessibility 14:30 - 15:30 Session 5: Web Accessibility Challenge Presentations 15:30 - 16:00 Coffee 16:00 - 17:30 Session 6: Web Accessibility Challenge Demonstrations & Voting TUESDAY April 12 8:45 - 9:00 Opening 9:00 - 10:00 Session 7: Non-Visual Access & Web Accessibility 10:00 - 10:30 Session 8: Doctoral Consortium Student Presentations 10:30 - 11:00 Coffee 11:00 - 12:30 Session 9: Accessible Learning, Web-based Testing and Assessment 12:30 - 14:00 Lunch 14:00 - 14:30 Session 10: Supporting Accessibility and Wearables 14:30 - 15:00 Session 11: Doctoral Consortium Student Presentations 15:30 - 16:00 Coffee 16:00 - 17:30 Session 12: Accessible Multimedia 17:15 - 17:30 Awards & Closing 17:30 - 19:00 Break 19:00 - 22:00 W4A Dinner & The William Loughborough After Dinner Talk WEDNESDAY, April 13 9:00 - 10:30 WWW 2016 Keynote Address with Tim Berners-Lee 10:30 - 10:45 Shuttle, or walk to Google Montreal 11:00 - 18:00 WWW/W4A Accessibility Hackathon - details at: http://www.w4a.info/2016/wwww4a-hackathon/ 18:00 - 18:15 Shuttle return to conference venue Or 11:00 - 17:00 W4A CAMP (alternate to the hackathon, if there’s interest) SPONSORS & SUPPORTERS This year W4A is endorsed by the IW3C2 in cooperation with the ACM and its Special Interest Groups SIGACCESS, SIGCHI and SIGWEB. The general conference is supported by Google, IBM, Intuit, and Canvas; the Web Accessibility Challenge is sponsored by The Paciello Group, and the Student Awards are sponsored by Google, Intuit, and Canvas. Support has also been provided by CaptiVoice.com, Ability Magazine, OpenConf, and ATutorSpaces. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From themuso at ubuntu.com Tue Mar 22 23:07:52 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:07:52 +1100 Subject: Orca 3.20 in ubuntu 16.04 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160322230752.GA3090@buffalo> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 04:34:14AM AEDT, Pavel Vlček wrote: > Hi, > Orca 3.20.0 is here. Is here a chance to be released in Ubuntu 16.04, > or 3.18.2 will be included in 16.04? I don't know Ubuntu release plan. > Can I read it somewhere? Orca 3.18.2 will be in Ubuntu 16.04. I will make Orca 3.20 available in the accessibility PPA when I get a chance. Unfortunately newer versions of Orca do not work properly with the Unity dash, so I need to work out a fix for that. Luke From burt1iband at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 00:06:15 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:06:15 -0600 Subject: Orca 3.20 in ubuntu 16.04 question In-Reply-To: <20160322230752.GA3090@buffalo> References: <20160322230752.GA3090@buffalo> Message-ID: <20160323000614.GE3223@gmail.com> Is accessibility overall going to be similar in 16.04 to recent Ubuntu releases? have things changed much on the accessiblity front since 14.04? Thanks. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Luke Yelavich wrote: Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 10:07:52AM +1100 > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 04:34:14AM AEDT, Pavel Vlček wrote: > > Hi, > > Orca 3.20.0 is here. Is here a chance to be released in Ubuntu 16.04, > > or 3.18.2 will be included in 16.04? I don't know Ubuntu release plan. > > Can I read it somewhere? > > Orca 3.18.2 will be in Ubuntu 16.04. I will make Orca 3.20 available in the accessibility PPA when I get a chance. Unfortunately newer versions of Orca do not work properly with the Unity dash, so I need to work out a fix for that. > > Luke > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From themuso at ubuntu.com Wed Mar 23 01:09:46 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 12:09:46 +1100 Subject: Orca 3.20 in ubuntu 16.04 question In-Reply-To: <20160323000614.GE3223@gmail.com> References: <20160322230752.GA3090@buffalo> <20160323000614.GE3223@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160323010946.GA2806@buffalo> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 11:06:15AM AEDT, B. Henry wrote: > Is accessibility overall going to be similar in 16.04 to recent Ubuntu releases? have things changed much on the accessiblity front since 14.04? Beyond what new stuff Orca brings to the table, not a lot. The accessibility profile system has been revamped however, the most noticeable change being a new indicator in the menu bar when you have an accessibility profile enabled. Once this is in a daily image, I will mail the list with more details. Most of the pieces for it have landed, but the package was only moved to main the last 12 or so hours, and there are still a few bugs surrounding its use in the installer, which I am currently working on, although they won't be in the beta due this Thursday. Luke From burt1iband at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 03:02:21 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 21:02:21 -0600 Subject: Orca 3.20 in ubuntu 16.04 question In-Reply-To: <20160323010946.GA2806@buffalo> References: <20160322230752.GA3090@buffalo> <20160323000614.GE3223@gmail.com> <20160323010946.GA2806@buffalo> Message-ID: <20160323030221.GA593@gmail.com> Sounds interesting/looking forward to checking it out. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Luke Yelavich wrote: Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 12:09:46PM +1100 > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 11:06:15AM AEDT, B. Henry wrote: > > Is accessibility overall going to be similar in 16.04 to recent Ubuntu releases? have things changed much on the accessiblity front since 14.04? > > Beyond what new stuff Orca brings to the table, not a lot. The accessibility > profile system has been revamped however, the most noticeable change being > a new indicator in the menu bar when you have an accessibility profile > enabled. Once this is in a daily image, I will mail the list with more > details. Most of the pieces for it have landed, but the package was only > moved to main the last 12 or so hours, and there are still a few bugs > surrounding its use in the installer, which I am currently working on, > although they won't be in the beta due this Thursday. > > Luke > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From alexarnaud at member.fsf.org Thu Mar 24 09:31:36 2016 From: alexarnaud at member.fsf.org (Alex ARNAUD) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:31:36 +0100 Subject: Orca 3.20 in ubuntu 16.04 question In-Reply-To: <20160322230752.GA3090@buffalo> References: <20160322230752.GA3090@buffalo> Message-ID: <56F3B3F8.3090000@member.fsf.org> On 03/23/2016 12:07 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: > Orca 3.18.2 will be in Ubuntu 16.04. I will make Orca 3.20 available in the accessibility PPA when I get a chance. Unfortunately newer versions of Orca do not work properly with the Unity dash, so I need to work out a fix for that. What's about test compatibility between Firefox and Orca ? As I know Ubuntu updates Firefox version each time for security but Orca is only compatible with the current version of Firefox. Best regards. -- Alex ARNAUD From burt1iband at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 10:24:29 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 04:24:29 -0600 Subject: Orca 3.20 in ubuntu 16.04 question In-Reply-To: <56F3B3F8.3090000@member.fsf.org> References: <20160322230752.GA3090@buffalo> <56F3B3F8.3090000@member.fsf.org> Message-ID: <20160324102429.GA7254@gmail.com> I do not know exactly what you are trying to say, but it appears you are mis informed. Orca works with most version s of firefox very well. There was a time, between firefox25 and 29 or 30 where things wer pretty sad, and one or two release/builds have com eout over the years with an accessiblity issue, but orca should have nothing to do with your security. Ordca has dramatically improved its working with firefox in recent releases, and this is not going to change for the worse. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Alex ARNAUD wrote: Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 10:31:36AM +0100 > On 03/23/2016 12:07 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: > >Orca 3.18.2 will be in Ubuntu 16.04. I will make Orca 3.20 available in the accessibility PPA when I get a chance. Unfortunately newer versions of Orca do not work properly with the Unity dash, so I need to work out a fix for that. > What's about test compatibility between Firefox and Orca ? As I know Ubuntu > updates Firefox version each time for security but Orca is only compatible > with the current version of Firefox. > > Best regards. > > -- > Alex ARNAUD > > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility From alexarnaud at member.fsf.org Thu Mar 24 11:03:00 2016 From: alexarnaud at member.fsf.org (Alex ARNAUD) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 12:03:00 +0100 Subject: Orca 3.20 in ubuntu 16.04 question In-Reply-To: <20160324102429.GA7254@gmail.com> References: <20160322230752.GA3090@buffalo> <56F3B3F8.3090000@member.fsf.org> <20160324102429.GA7254@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56F3C964.7050708@member.fsf.org> On 03/24/2016 11:24 AM, B. Henry wrote: > I do not know exactly what you are trying to say, but it appears you are mis informed. I use almost time Orca master with Debian Sid that it has took long time to jump from Firefox 38 to newest version so I've noticed some incompatibilities between Firefox 38 and Orca master. So if Orca is 3.18.x and Firefox version is one year in advance maybe it can cause some troubles for the final user. Best regards. -- Alex ARNAUD From vlcekpavel93 at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 10:31:46 2016 From: vlcekpavel93 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGF2ZWwgVmzEjWVr?=) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:31:46 +0100 Subject: accessibility profiles, what is it and how it works? Message-ID: Hi, after today's update, when I press alt f10 key, I get accessibility profiles menu. I am using Orca normally, but no profile was selected. I changed it to screen reader witch speech. What changet? I am using Ubuntu daily, to install the Ubuntu, I used live dvd from 10th March. In this dvd, there was not language select screen and try and install buttons. It booted to desktop, using English language. Can you explain please, how the accessibility profiles work? Thanks, Pavel From themuso at ubuntu.com Wed Mar 30 05:03:16 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:03:16 +1100 Subject: accessibility profiles, what is it and how it works? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 09:31:46PM AEDT, Pavel Vlček wrote: > Hi, > after today's update, when I press alt f10 key, I get accessibility > profiles menu. I am using Orca normally, but no profile was selected. > I changed it to screen reader witch speech. What changet? I am using > Ubuntu daily, to install the Ubuntu, I used live dvd from 10th March. Accessibility profiles are a way to facilitate the configuration of the Ubuntu desktop for people with disabilities. An accessibility profile contains settings that improve the usage of the desktop environment for particular assistive technologies. Accessibility profiles have been around for many years now, I think as early as Ubuntu 8.04, if not earlier, however until now, they have not been as easy to work with. For one, they were only available in the live session or the installer, and for another, they were not available post install, and were hard coded in a shell script, that was only present in the live environment. As of Ubuntu 16.04, the accessibility profile system has been much improved. The profiles are available on the live session, and during installation, and also available post install. So for example, you can now create a new user, log into that user, and enable a particular accessibility profile for them, without having to manually tweak a bunch of settings. What you are seeing is the new accessibility profiles indicator. By default, the indicator is enabled when any accessibility profile is enabled, to allow the switching between profiles if the user so desires. The indicator can be turned off from the universal access control panel, under the accessibility profiles tab. One other advantage of the new accessibility profile system is you can now create your own profiles, and they will appear in the indicator alongside other profiles. The profile system allows for any gsettings key to be changed when a profile is enabled. Creating a profile is not yet documented, and thats something I have to work on, and it will likely be put on the Ubuntu wiki under the accessibility section. Unfortunately due to time constraints, I was not able to implement this support for all Gtk/GNOME based flavours of Ubuntu. Doing so would require adding UI to the various desktop environments to allow the profiles indicator or equivalent to be enabled/disabled. I would also have to code extra modules to properly support GNOME shell, and Mate's own panel applet system. Once this work is done however, the design is such that it would then be possible for profiles to contain settings specifically for a particular desktop environment, so you could have settings for mate that would be applied when the profile is enabled, and those settings would not be enabled under Unity or GNOME shell. Luke From fudge at thefudge.net Wed Mar 30 09:35:45 2016 From: fudge at thefudge.net (Rob Whyte) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:35:45 +1100 Subject: accessibility profiles, what is it and how it works? In-Reply-To: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> References: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> Message-ID: <56FB9DF1.3090809@thefudge.net> Hi, thanks for the detailed explanation. Look forward to the wiki article. cheers On 30/03/16 16:03, Luke Yelavich wrote: > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 09:31:46PM AEDT, Pavel Vlček wrote: >> Hi, >> after today's update, when I press alt f10 key, I get accessibility >> profiles menu. I am using Orca normally, but no profile was selected. >> I changed it to screen reader witch speech. What changet? I am using >> Ubuntu daily, to install the Ubuntu, I used live dvd from 10th March. > Accessibility profiles are a way to facilitate the configuration of the > Ubuntu desktop for people with disabilities. An accessibility profile > contains settings that improve the usage of the desktop environment for > particular assistive technologies. > > Accessibility profiles have been around for many years now, I think as early > as Ubuntu 8.04, if not earlier, however until now, they have not been as easy > to work with. For one, they were only available in the live session or the > installer, and for another, they were not available post install, and were > hard coded in a shell script, that was only present in the live environment. > > As of Ubuntu 16.04, the accessibility profile system has been much > improved. The profiles are available on the live session, and during > installation, and also available post install. So for example, you can now > create a new user, log into that user, and enable a particular accessibility > profile for them, without having to manually tweak a bunch of settings. > > What you are seeing is the new accessibility profiles indicator. By default, > the indicator is enabled when any accessibility profile is enabled, > to allow the switching between profiles if the user so desires. The > indicator can be turned off from the universal access control panel, > under the accessibility profiles tab. > > One other advantage of the new accessibility profile system is you can now > create your own profiles, and they will appear in the indicator alongside > other profiles. The profile system allows for any gsettings key to be > changed when a profile is enabled. Creating a profile is not yet documented, > and thats something I have to work on, and it will likely be put on the > Ubuntu wiki under the accessibility section. > > Unfortunately due to time constraints, I was not able to implement this > support for all Gtk/GNOME based flavours of Ubuntu. Doing so would require > adding UI to the various desktop environments to allow the profiles > indicator or equivalent to be enabled/disabled. I would also have to > code extra modules to properly support GNOME shell, and Mate's own panel > applet system. Once this work is done however, the design is such that it > would then be possible for profiles to contain settings specifically for a > particular desktop environment, so you could have settings for mate that > would be applied when the profile is enabled, and those settings would > not be enabled under Unity or GNOME shell. > > Luke > From dpywork at foxmail.com Wed Mar 30 05:25:20 2016 From: dpywork at foxmail.com (=?gb18030?B?0Me/1Q==?=) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:25:20 +0800 Subject: =?gb18030?B?u9i4tDogYWNjZXNzaWJpbGl0eSBwcm9maWxlcywg?= =?gb18030?B?d2hhdCBpcyBpdCBhbmQgaG93IGl0IHdvcmtzPw==?= References: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> Message-ID: I now ask accessibility UBUNTU support Chinese operation? I am a user from China. ---原始邮件--- 发件人:"Luke Yelavich"; 发送时间:2016年3月30日(星期三) 中午1:03 收件人:"ubuntu-accessibility"; 主题:Re: accessibility profiles, what is it and how it works? On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 09:31:46PM AEDT, Pavel Vlček wrote: > Hi, > after today's update, when I press alt f10 key, I get accessibility > profiles menu. I am using Orca normally, but no profile was selected. > I changed it to screen reader witch speech. What changet? I am using > Ubuntu daily, to install the Ubuntu, I used live dvd from 10th March. Accessibility profiles are a way to facilitate the configuration of the Ubuntu desktop for people with disabilities. An accessibility profile contains settings that improve the usage of the desktop environment for particular assistive technologies. Accessibility profiles have been around for many years now, I think as early as Ubuntu 8.04, if not earlier, however until now, they have not been as easy to work with. For one, they were only available in the live session or the installer, and for another, they were not available post install, and were hard coded in a shell script, that was only present in the live environment. As of Ubuntu 16.04, the accessibility profile system has been much improved. The profiles are available on the live session, and during installation, and also available post install. So for example, you can now create a new user, log into that user, and enable a particular accessibility profile for them, without having to manually tweak a bunch of settings. What you are seeing is the new accessibility profiles indicator. By default, the indicator is enabled when any accessibility profile is enabled, to allow the switching between profiles if the user so desires. The indicator can be turned off from the universal access control panel, under the accessibility profiles tab. One other advantage of the new accessibility profile system is you can now create your own profiles, and they will appear in the indicator alongside other profiles. The profile system allows for any gsettings key to be changed when a profile is enabled. Creating a profile is not yet documented, and thats something I have to work on, and it will likely be put on the Ubuntu wiki under the accessibility section. Unfortunately due to time constraints, I was not able to implement this support for all Gtk/GNOME based flavours of Ubuntu. Doing so would require adding UI to the various desktop environments to allow the profiles indicator or equivalent to be enabled/disabled. I would also have to code extra modules to properly support GNOME shell, and Mate's own panel applet system. Once this work is done however, the design is such that it would then be possible for profiles to contain settings specifically for a particular desktop environment, so you could have settings for mate that would be applied when the profile is enabled, and those settings would not be enabled under Unity or GNOME shell. Luke -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From burt1iband at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 22:28:59 2016 From: burt1iband at gmail.com (B. Henry) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:28:59 -0600 Subject: accessibility profiles, what is it and how it works? In-Reply-To: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> References: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> Message-ID: <20160330222859.GC10563@gmail.com> This does indeed sound very good, and of course leads one to wonder about sharing custom profiles. Is there now, or will there in the planned future be an easy way to export and import accessiblity profiles? Thanks much to you and anyone who has worked on enhancing this functionality. -- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886 Luke Yelavich wrote: Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 04:03:16PM +1100 > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 09:31:46PM AEDT, Pavel Vlček wrote: > > Hi, > > after today's update, when I press alt f10 key, I get accessibility > > profiles menu. I am using Orca normally, but no profile was selected. > > I changed it to screen reader witch speech. What changet? I am using > > Ubuntu daily, to install the Ubuntu, I used live dvd from 10th March. > > Accessibility profiles are a way to facilitate the configuration of the > Ubuntu desktop for people with disabilities. An accessibility profile > contains settings that improve the usage of the desktop environment for > particular assistive technologies. > > Accessibility profiles have been around for many years now, I think as early > as Ubuntu 8.04, if not earlier, however until now, they have not been as easy > to work with. For one, they were only available in the live session or the > installer, and for another, they were not available post install, and were > hard coded in a shell script, that was only present in the live environment. > > As of Ubuntu 16.04, the accessibility profile system has been much > improved. The profiles are available on the live session, and during > installation, and also available post install. So for example, you can now > create a new user, log into that user, and enable a particular accessibility > profile for them, without having to manually tweak a bunch of settings. > > What you are seeing is the new accessibility profiles indicator. By default, > the indicator is enabled when any accessibility profile is enabled, > to allow the switching between profiles if the user so desires. The > indicator can be turned off from the universal access control panel, > under the accessibility profiles tab. > > One other advantage of the new accessibility profile system is you can now > create your own profiles, and they will appear in the indicator alongside > other profiles. The profile system allows for any gsettings key to be > changed when a profile is enabled. Creating a profile is not yet documented, > and thats something I have to work on, and it will likely be put on the > Ubuntu wiki under the accessibility section. > > Unfortunately due to time constraints, I was not able to implement this > support for all Gtk/GNOME based flavours of Ubuntu. Doing so would require > adding UI to the various desktop environments to allow the profiles > indicator or equivalent to be enabled/disabled. I would also have to > code extra modules to properly support GNOME shell, and Mate's own panel > applet system. Once this work is done however, the design is such that it > would then be possible for profiles to contain settings specifically for a > particular desktop environment, so you could have settings for mate that > would be applied when the profile is enabled, and those settings would > not be enabled under Unity or GNOME shell. > > Luke > > -- > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility End of quoted content -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From coffeekingms at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 22:39:04 2016 From: coffeekingms at gmail.com (kendell clark) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 17:39:04 -0500 Subject: accessibility profiles, what is it and how it works? In-Reply-To: <20160330222859.GC10563@gmail.com> References: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> <20160330222859.GC10563@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56FC5588.90509@gmail.com> hi This is a fantastic idea. I can see lots of uses for this. In particular, this could be a wonderful edition to sonar once other desktops are supported. Thanks Kendell Clark B. Henry wrote: > This does indeed sound very good, and of course leads one to wonder about sharing custom profiles. > Is there now, or will there in the planned future be an easy way to export and import accessiblity profiles? > Thanks much to you and anyone who has worked on enhancing this functionality. > > > > From themuso at ubuntu.com Thu Mar 31 03:26:19 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:26:19 +1100 Subject: accessibility profiles, what is it and how it works? In-Reply-To: <20160330222859.GC10563@gmail.com> References: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> <20160330222859.GC10563@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160331032619.GA18559@buffalo> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:28:59AM AEDT, B. Henry wrote: > Is there now, or will there in the planned future be an easy way to export and import accessiblity profiles? If you have a profile, you can just drop it in /usr/share/a11y-profile-manager/profiles and it should be picked up. It does not make sense to put them in your home directory because a profile is much more useful if its available system wide. Having said that, it would probably be useful to have a tool that could export, import, and package up profiles to be shared. Editing profiles on the other hand is not likely to be as easy, given you are working with raw gsettings, so putting together a profile will be a matter of knowing the gsettings schema, the gsettings you want to change within that schema, and optionally the schema path, if that particular gsettings schema has a relocatable schema path. This will likely require knowledge of the settings of the applications you want to change. Further to this though, I think there is a way one can monitor for gsettings schema changes, so again it may be possible to make a tool that can monitor for changes, and gather them, and then save them for you into a file. You would then load the tool, run your app, change the settings you want changed, then save the file. At this point in time, there is no mechanism to support other settings systems or configuration file formats. Ini style file formats could be supported, but that would require another file format to define the ini file layout and expected values. Other database based settings systems could be supported if there was enough demand. Luke From rckbrgr at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 04:47:02 2016 From: rckbrgr at gmail.com (Rick Berger) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 00:47:02 -0400 Subject: Nautilus - can it be more keyboard friendly Message-ID: <56FCABC6.4090802@gmail.com> I have limited hand coordination, I do use the mouse but ... , Nautilus, as it comes with 14.04, seem to require you to use the mouse to find the keyboard shortcuts. Is there anyway of turning on a menu bar to make keyboard navigation more obvious? Rick From milton at tomaatnet.nl Thu Mar 31 10:55:45 2016 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:55:45 +0200 Subject: will speech be possible with BQ Aquaris M10 convergence? Message-ID: <56FD0231.9090200@tomaatnet.nl> Hi, Now the BQ Aquaris M10 convergence with Ubuntu 15.04 is out will Orca works when connecting it to a keyboard and screen? Milton From chaltain at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 12:07:54 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 07:07:54 -0500 Subject: Nautilus - can it be more keyboard friendly In-Reply-To: <56FCABC6.4090802@gmail.com> References: <56FCABC6.4090802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56FD131A.9070207@gmail.com> I'm not sure what you're trying to do. I use Nautilus all of the time with just the keyboard. On 30/03/16 23:47, Rick Berger wrote: > I have limited hand coordination, I do use the mouse but ... , Nautilus, > as it comes with 14.04, seem to require you to use the mouse to find the > keyboard shortcuts. Is there anyway of turning on a menu bar to make > keyboard navigation more obvious? > > > Rick > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From quirky.wizard at gmx.com Thu Mar 31 13:12:04 2016 From: quirky.wizard at gmx.com (Daniel Crone) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:12:04 -0500 Subject: linux and secure boot, u e f i Message-ID: <9569291F-0BEC-4729-AE91-F19804BD2D4E@gmx.com> If one gets a new computer these days, it could have windows 8 or 10. If so, it would use u e f i, and secure boot would probably be enabled. Might any form of linux work with this situation, or would secure boot need to be turned off? My concern is that a totally blind user would not be able to turn this off. From coffeekingms at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:27:56 2016 From: coffeekingms at gmail.com (kendell clark) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:27:56 -0500 Subject: linux and secure boot, u e f i In-Reply-To: <9569291F-0BEC-4729-AE91-F19804BD2D4E@gmx.com> References: <9569291F-0BEC-4729-AE91-F19804BD2D4E@gmx.com> Message-ID: <56FD25DC.1060308@gmail.com> hi Linux already works very well with UEFI, including sonar. Secure boot is more complicated. We are supposed to be able to easily work with secure boot by having a signed boot loader stub, which basically means a boot loader signed with microsoft's key which will trick the firmware into thinking it's booting windows, which will then load grub or isolinux, which will then load linux. I don't know if this works because I don't ahve any computers with secure boot enabled but both my desktop I'm typing this on and my mac run uefi, although the mac runs an older version called efi, which is uefi's predecessor. If this doesn't work, I'd like to know about it so I can fix it. Thanks Kendell Clark Daniel Crone wrote: > If one gets a new computer these days, it could have windows 8 or 10. > If so, it would use u e f i, and secure boot would probably be enabled. > Might any form of linux work with this situation, or would secure boot need to be turned off? > My concern is that a totally blind user would not be able to turn this off. From jdashiel at panix.com Thu Mar 31 13:33:59 2016 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linux and secure boot, u e f i In-Reply-To: <9569291F-0BEC-4729-AE91-F19804BD2D4E@gmx.com> References: <9569291F-0BEC-4729-AE91-F19804BD2D4E@gmx.com> Message-ID: Which is why a totally blind user need be present at sale and as a condition of sale see to it secure boot gets disabled before purchase and verify secure boot was disabled before purchase. On Thu, 31 Mar 2016, Daniel Crone wrote: > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:12:04 > From: Daniel Crone > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: linux and secure boot, u e f i > > If one gets a new computer these days, it could have windows 8 or 10. > If so, it would use u e f i, and secure boot would probably be enabled. > Might any form of linux work with this situation, or would secure boot need to be turned off? > My concern is that a totally blind user would not be able to turn this off. > -- From rckbrgr at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 19:12:26 2016 From: rckbrgr at gmail.com (Rick Berger) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:12:26 -0400 Subject: Nautilus - can it be more keyboard friendly In-Reply-To: <56FD131A.9070207@gmail.com> References: <56FCABC6.4090802@gmail.com> <56FD131A.9070207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56FD769A.3020705@gmail.com> Ok, for instance, what's the shortcut for the go-down image button/menu in the toolbar? On 16-03-31 08:07 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > I'm not sure what you're trying to do. I use Nautilus all of the time > with just the keyboard. > On 30/03/16 23:47, Rick Berger wrote: >> I have limited hand coordination, I do use the mouse but ... , Nautilus, >> as it comes with 14.04, seem to require you to use the mouse to find the >> keyboard shortcuts. Is there anyway of turning on a menu bar to make >> keyboard navigation more obvious? >> >> >> Rick >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 255 bytes Desc: not available URL: From themuso at ubuntu.com Thu Mar 31 21:27:06 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 08:27:06 +1100 Subject: Which distro to use was Re: accessibility profiles, what is it and how it works? In-Reply-To: References: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> <20160330222859.GC10563@gmail.com> <20160331032619.GA18559@buffalo> Message-ID: <20160331212706.GA3678@buffalo> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:07:10PM AEDT, Daniel Crone wrote: > Hello. On an external hard drive I have vinux 5, but thought of putting ubuntu on it. > I welcome anyone’s advice as to which version of ubuntu might be most accessible. Also, I would like to know if I might do better using gnome or mate. At this point in time I suggest VInux 5. Vinux 5 comes with 3 desktop environments, Unity, GNOME Shell, and Mate. BTW, you didn't reply to the list, but to me only, so replying to the list which is where I think you meant the post to go. Luke From luke.yelavich at canonical.com Thu Mar 31 21:28:51 2016 From: luke.yelavich at canonical.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 08:28:51 +1100 Subject: Which distro to use was Re: accessibility profiles, what is it and how it works? In-Reply-To: References: <20160330050315.GA26939@buffalo> <20160330222859.GC10563@gmail.com> <20160331032619.GA18559@buffalo> Message-ID: <20160331212851.GB3678@buffalo> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:08:08PM AEDT, Daniel Crone wrote: > Hello, I forgot to add that I may switch from vinux to ubuntu because of the accessibility profiles I read about. As explained in my email, the accessibility profiles have been present in Ubuntu since 8.04, and were somewhat improved in 12.04, they are only available at install time. Vinux makes use of these profiles, particularly the screen reader profile, so you are not really missing out on much if you use Vinux 5 or an earlier version of Ubuntu. Luke From themuso at ubuntu.com Thu Mar 31 22:06:40 2016 From: themuso at ubuntu.com (Luke Yelavich) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 09:06:40 +1100 Subject: will speech be possible with BQ Aquaris M10 convergence? In-Reply-To: <56FD0231.9090200@tomaatnet.nl> References: <56FD0231.9090200@tomaatnet.nl> Message-ID: <20160331220640.GA3978@buffalo> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:55:45PM AEDT, Milton wrote: > Hi, > > Now the BQ Aquaris M10 convergence with Ubuntu 15.04 is out will Orca works > when connecting it to a keyboard and screen? It was recently stated on this list that no work has been done on any of the Ubuntu touch components to implement accessibility. That still stands, including these new converged devices. As also previously stated on this list, there is no ETA on when that will change. Again, that still stands. Luke From quirky.wizard at gmx.com Thu Mar 31 22:08:20 2016 From: quirky.wizard at gmx.com (Daniel Crone) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:08:20 -0500 Subject: gnome shell versus mate Message-ID: Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. What do you think? From nolan at thewordnerd.info Thu Mar 31 23:20:33 2016 From: nolan at thewordnerd.info (Nolan Darilek) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 18:20:33 -0500 Subject: will speech be possible with BQ Aquaris M10 convergence? In-Reply-To: <20160331220640.GA3978@buffalo> References: <56FD0231.9090200@tomaatnet.nl> <20160331220640.GA3978@buffalo> Message-ID: <56FDB0C1.6080006@thewordnerd.info> I feel like the OP's question is a bit different. My understanding of these devices is that they become full(er) desktops when plugged in to external hardware. At this point, would existing desktop APIs take over and grant a desktop-like level of a11y, even if they don't work in touch mode? On 03/31/2016 05:06 PM, Luke Yelavich wrote: > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:55:45PM AEDT, Milton wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Now the BQ Aquaris M10 convergence with Ubuntu 15.04 is out will Orca works >> when connecting it to a keyboard and screen? > It was recently stated on this list that no work has been done on any of > the Ubuntu touch components to implement accessibility. That still stands, > including these new converged devices. > > As also previously stated on this list, there is no ETA on when that will > change. Again, that still stands. > > Luke > From chaltain at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 23:45:35 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 18:45:35 -0500 Subject: gnome shell versus mate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56FDB69F.3070703@gmail.com> I prefer Gnome myself. I like the dash, being able to add items to my favorites and the top bar to get to settings and things. That being said, I run Mate on my netbook since the interface is simpler and a bit less CPU and memory intensive. Mate also has the same look and feel as the old Gnome 2 interface, so if you're used to that, then you might prefer Mate. I'd suggest installing Vinux 5 and playing with Gnome, Mate and Unity. Once you decide which you like, you can just stick with it or install that flavor of Ubuntu. On 31/03/16 17:08, Daniel Crone wrote: > Hello. I am curious about the advantages of gnome shell over mate, or vice versa. > What do you think? > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail From chaltain at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 23:47:08 2016 From: chaltain at gmail.com (Christopher Chaltain) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 18:47:08 -0500 Subject: Nautilus - can it be more keyboard friendly In-Reply-To: <56FD769A.3020705@gmail.com> References: <56FCABC6.4090802@gmail.com> <56FD131A.9070207@gmail.com> <56FD769A.3020705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56FDB6FC.7040104@gmail.com> Sorry, I'm not sure which menu item you're referring to. On 31/03/16 14:12, Rick Berger wrote: > Ok, for instance, what's the shortcut for the go-down image button/menu > in the toolbar? > > On 16-03-31 08:07 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: >> I'm not sure what you're trying to do. I use Nautilus all of the time >> with just the keyboard. >> On 30/03/16 23:47, Rick Berger wrote: >>> I have limited hand coordination, I do use the mouse but ... , Nautilus, >>> as it comes with 14.04, seem to require you to use the mouse to find the >>> keyboard shortcuts. Is there anyway of turning on a menu bar to make >>> keyboard navigation more obvious? >>> >>> >>> Rick >>> >> > > > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail