From milton at tomaatnet.nl Sun May 20 12:24:02 2018 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 14:24:02 +0200 Subject: where is the sound of the drums during install and login screen? Message-ID: Hi, I miss the sound of the drums when installing Ubuntu 18.04. The sound of the drums is the signal to start Orca with Super+Alt+S. I also miss the drums in the login screen. After installing with the help Of Orca, the screen reader, and restart I expected Orca to start automatically. So once more Super+Alt+S to start Orca. Now I am fine running 18.04 with Orca 3.28.0 Many thanks. Milton From dannyboy at sero.email Mon May 21 17:13:25 2018 From: dannyboy at sero.email (Daniel Crone) Date: Mon, 21 May 2018 12:13:25 -0500 Subject: Orca and mumble connect button Message-ID: By default, is ubuntu 18.04 gnome or something else? I am just now using Ubuntu 18.04. I thought of trying mumble. After using control o and entering the channel information, I went to connect. Using the tab, I found the cancel button, and found connect using review mode with the num pad 6. To connect, I have tried using num pad slash, num pad 5, and other commands. How may I move the cursor or mouse to connect and click that button? From mengualjeanphi at free.fr Mon May 21 17:35:57 2018 From: mengualjeanphi at free.fr (MENGUAL Jean-Philippe) Date: Mon, 21 May 2018 19:35:57 +0200 Subject: Orca and mumble connect button In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1d2f8d94-bb4d-bd52-fde1-b9c0be95fed6@free.fr> Hi, First, given the mumble status in accessibility and in general (qt4, qt5 etc), I srongly suggest you to run it via commandline instead of using GUI to connect. I just use GUI for settings and audio wizard. In CLI in a grapical terminal, to connect, I use: mumble mumble://user:pass at server:port Once connected, just use arrows to choose the room. A dialog may ask you for certificate, but accessible so no problem. If you still want to use the GUI and tab does not go to Connect button, keep in mind that the flat review triggers the mouse pointer. So once you are on the button via the fral review (see keypad bindings for flat review or capslock-uio jkl and nm;), then, press left click (* on the keypad). Regards signature_jp_2 Logo Hypra JEAN-PHILIPPE MENGUAL DIRECTEUR TECHNIQUE ET QUALITÉ 102, rue des poissonniers, 75018, Paris Tel : +331 84 73 06 61 Mob : +336 76 34 93 37 jpmengual at hypra.fr www.hypra.fr Facebook Hypra  Twitter Hypra Linkedin Jean-Philippe Le 21/05/2018 à 19:13, Daniel Crone a écrit : > By default, is ubuntu 18.04 gnome or something else? > I am just now using Ubuntu 18.04. > I thought of trying mumble. > After using control o and entering the channel information, I went to connect. > Using the tab, I found the cancel button, and found connect using review mode with the num pad 6. > To connect, I have tried using num pad slash, num pad 5, and other commands. > How may I move the cursor or mouse to connect and click that button? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From milton at tomaatnet.nl Wed May 23 06:12:02 2018 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 08:12:02 +0200 Subject: where is the sound of the drums during install and login screen? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1ac153c5-bbed-dbeb-3de1-f51af63d1fbe@tomaatnet.nl> Hi Glenn, If you mean the welcom sound of Ubuntu then you can set this in Startup application with the command: /usr/bin/canberra-gtk-play --id="desktop-login" --description="GNOME Login" Milton Op 21-05-18 om 16:33 schreef Ervin, Glenn: > Hi, Along with this, I have had trouble getting any sound when Ubuntu starts. I have gone into preferences and set sounds, and I do get some, but still nothing on startup. > It would be helpful to know when you have reached a point before you enable Orca. > Glenn > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ubuntu-accessibility [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Milton > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 7:24 AM > To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: where is the sound of the drums during install and login screen? > > Hi, > > I miss the sound of the drums when installing Ubuntu 18.04. The sound of > the drums is the signal to start Orca with Super+Alt+S. > > I also miss the drums in the login screen. > After installing with the help Of Orca, the screen reader, and restart I > expected Orca to start automatically. So once more Super+Alt+S to start > Orca. > > Now I am fine running 18.04 with Orca 3.28.0 > Many thanks. > Milton > From alexarnaud at hypra.fr Wed May 23 09:23:41 2018 From: alexarnaud at hypra.fr (Alex ARNAUD) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 11:23:41 +0200 Subject: where is the sound of the drums during install and login screen? In-Reply-To: <1ac153c5-bbed-dbeb-3de1-f51af63d1fbe@tomaatnet.nl> References: <1ac153c5-bbed-dbeb-3de1-f51af63d1fbe@tomaatnet.nl> Message-ID: <3626aa7a-8436-4482-1ff1-b3e52516ec97@hypra.fr> Hello Milton, I'm also interested in this sound. Could you tell us how to make it working? When I use the command you give us I obtain the following error: > Failed to play sound: File or data not found Do you know how it works and how to find the package that provides the data? Best regards, Alex. Le 23/05/2018 à 08:12, Milton a écrit : > Hi Glenn, > > If you mean the welcom sound of Ubuntu then you can set this in Startup > application with the command: > /usr/bin/canberra-gtk-play --id="desktop-login" --description="GNOME Login" > > Milton > > Op 21-05-18 om 16:33 schreef Ervin, Glenn: >> Hi, Along with this, I have had trouble getting any sound when Ubuntu >> starts.  I have gone into preferences and set sounds, and I do get >> some, but still nothing on startup. >> It would be helpful to know when you have reached a point before you >> enable Orca. >> Glenn >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ubuntu-accessibility >> [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of >> Milton >> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 7:24 AM >> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: where is the sound of the drums during install and login screen? >> >> Hi, >> >> I miss the sound of the drums when installing Ubuntu 18.04. The sound of >> the drums is the signal to start Orca with Super+Alt+S. >> >> I also miss the drums in the login screen. >> After installing with the help Of Orca, the screen reader, and restart I >> expected Orca to start automatically. So once more Super+Alt+S to start >> Orca. >> >> Now I am fine running 18.04 with Orca 3.28.0 >> Many thanks. >> Milton >> > From milton at tomaatnet.nl Wed May 23 10:18:30 2018 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 12:18:30 +0200 Subject: where is the sound of the drums during install and login screen? In-Reply-To: <3626aa7a-8436-4482-1ff1-b3e52516ec97@hypra.fr> References: <1ac153c5-bbed-dbeb-3de1-f51af63d1fbe@tomaatnet.nl> <3626aa7a-8436-4482-1ff1-b3e52516ec97@hypra.fr> Message-ID: <44b0b1d3-16d1-e5b2-f7b3-8de779230768@tomaatnet.nl> It works for me in Ubuntu. Open startup applications Tab to and press the Add button you can type a name for this action Tab to type or paste the command: /usr/bin/canberra-gtk-play --id="desktop-login" --description="GNOME Login" Tab to the Add button, press Enter Tab to the Close button and press Enter. Success. Milton Op 23-05-18 om 11:23 schreef Alex ARNAUD: > Hello Milton, > > I'm also interested in this sound. > Could you tell us how to make it working? > > When I use the command you give us I obtain the following error: >> Failed to play sound: File or data not found > > Do you know how it works and how to find the package that provides the > data? > > Best regards, > Alex. > > Le 23/05/2018 à 08:12, Milton a écrit : >> Hi Glenn, >> >> If you mean the welcom sound of Ubuntu then you can set this in >> Startup application with the command: >> /usr/bin/canberra-gtk-play --id="desktop-login" --description="GNOME >> Login" >> >> Milton >> >> Op 21-05-18 om 16:33 schreef Ervin, Glenn: >>> Hi, Along with this, I have had trouble getting any sound when Ubuntu >>> starts.  I have gone into preferences and set sounds, and I do get >>> some, but still nothing on startup. >>> It would be helpful to know when you have reached a point before you >>> enable Orca. >>> Glenn >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ubuntu-accessibility >>> [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of >>> Milton >>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 7:24 AM >>> To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com >>> Subject: where is the sound of the drums during install and login >>> screen? >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I miss the sound of the drums when installing Ubuntu 18.04. The sound of >>> the drums is the signal to start Orca with Super+Alt+S. >>> >>> I also miss the drums in the login screen. >>> After installing with the help Of Orca, the screen reader, and restart I >>> expected Orca to start automatically. So once more Super+Alt+S to start >>> Orca. >>> >>> Now I am fine running 18.04 with Orca 3.28.0 >>> Many thanks. >>> Milton >>> >> > From dannyboy at sero.email Wed May 23 13:12:58 2018 From: dannyboy at sero.email (Daniel Crone) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 08:12:58 -0500 Subject: Writing to disk Message-ID: I have ubuntu 18.04, and thought of trying mate. So I downloaded ubuntu mate 18.04. Then read how to burn to dvd. When I right clicked on the I s o, there was no ‘write to disk’ option. I could open with image writer. But when doing so, image writer would have been able to write the image to a hard drive, but the dvd was not one of the choices listed. Yet the blank dvd is listed on the desktop. Is there something else I should do? From kyle4jesus at gmail.com Wed May 23 13:20:24 2018 From: kyle4jesus at gmail.com (Kyle) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 09:20:24 -0400 Subject: Writing to disk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You may need the brasero application. I think that may give you the option you need in the file manager. If not, you should have no trouble opening Brasero and writing from the iso directly to your DVD, which would be listed as a blank disk. Imetumwa kutoka simu yangu From milos.przic at gmail.com Thu May 31 07:25:15 2018 From: milos.przic at gmail.com (Milos Przic) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 09:25:15 +0200 Subject: Intro and a question Message-ID: <024201d3f8b0$85e31260$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> Hello group, I have been here on the list for a few days now. Let me first introduce briefly, my name is Milos and I am from Serbia, a beginner in using Linux. I didn't want to install Ubuntu on my computer, I just tried using it from my usb flash, but the use seems to be much restricted. Then I wanted to install it as a virtual machine using VMWare, and everything seems to go well untill I try activating Orca. When I boot it from the flash drive and press alt+super+s, Orca starts speaking, but when I turn it on as a virtual machine, that same key combination doesn't do anything, eventhough I hear the sound that means that Ubuntu is up and running. What to try? Thanks to everyone in advance, and best regards! Miloš -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexarnaud at hypra.fr Thu May 31 09:09:45 2018 From: alexarnaud at hypra.fr (Alex ARNAUD) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 11:09:45 +0200 Subject: Intro and a question In-Reply-To: <024201d3f8b0$85e31260$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> References: <024201d3f8b0$85e31260$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> Message-ID: Hello Milos, Could you access your computer from SSH ? Do you have sighted help ? How do you have tried to activate Orca ? For accessibility purposes, I advise you to choose Ubuntu Mate because the Mate desktop is in my opinion the most reliable for blind and low-vision people. Best regards, Alex. Le 31/05/2018 à 09:25, Milos Przic a écrit : > Hello group, > I have been here on the list for a few days now. Let me first introduce > briefly, my name is Milos and I am from Serbia, a beginner in using Linux. > I didn't want to install Ubuntu on my computer, I just tried using it > from my usb flash, but the use seems to be much restricted. Then I > wanted to install it as a virtual machine using VMWare, and everything > seems to go well untill I try activating Orca. When I boot it from the > flash drive and press alt+super+s, Orca starts speaking, but when I turn > it on as a virtual machine, that same key combination doesn't do > anything, eventhough I hear the sound that means that Ubuntu is up and > running. > What to try? > Thanks to everyone in advance, and best regards! > Miloš > > From milos.przic at gmail.com Thu May 31 09:21:38 2018 From: milos.przic at gmail.com (Milos Przic) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 11:21:38 +0200 Subject: Intro and a question References: <024201d3f8b0$85e31260$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> Message-ID: <002701d3f8c0$c817ab40$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> Hi all, Where should I check if a key has been changed, so that it is different in the vm? When I used the same software for Windows virtual machines, I didn't have such problems. Thanks! Best, Miloš ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex ARNAUD" To: "Milos Przic" ; "Ubuntu List" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Intro and a question > Hello Milos, > > Could you access your computer from SSH ? Do you have sighted help ? How > do you have tried to activate Orca ? > > For accessibility purposes, I advise you to choose Ubuntu Mate because the > Mate desktop is in my opinion the most reliable for blind and low-vision > people. > > Best regards, > Alex. > > Le 31/05/2018 à 09:25, Milos Przic a écrit : >> Hello group, >> I have been here on the list for a few days now. Let me first introduce >> briefly, my name is Milos and I am from Serbia, a beginner in using >> Linux. >> I didn't want to install Ubuntu on my computer, I just tried using it >> from my usb flash, but the use seems to be much restricted. Then I wanted >> to install it as a virtual machine using VMWare, and everything seems to >> go well untill I try activating Orca. When I boot it from the flash drive >> and press alt+super+s, Orca starts speaking, but when I turn it on as a >> virtual machine, that same key combination doesn't do anything, >> eventhough I hear the sound that means that Ubuntu is up and running. >> What to try? >> Thanks to everyone in advance, and best regards! >> Miloš >> From jdashiel at panix.com Thu May 31 09:46:24 2018 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 05:46:24 -0400 Subject: Intro and a question In-Reply-To: References: <024201d3f8b0$85e31260$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> Message-ID: If Milos has an android device or an iPad or iPhone the be my eyes app once installed can get him some sighted help. I've tried booting both ubuntu and ubuntu-mate on a machine here after the restart dialog came up and can't get either to boot. Or at least that's the way this seems now. A little later today I'm going to get some sighted help and find out what's really happening and I'll be back with that information. The machine here has 1 gig of memory and earlier versions of ubuntu and vinux worked on it in the past. The hard drive did come out of the computer warm to the touch so maybe letting the hard drive cool off will help matters. On Thu, 31 May 2018, Alex ARNAUD wrote: > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 05:09:45 > From: Alex ARNAUD > To: Milos Przic , > Ubuntu List > Subject: Re: Intro and a question > > Hello Milos, > > Could you access your computer from SSH ? Do you have sighted help ? How do > you have tried to activate Orca ? > > For accessibility purposes, I advise you to choose Ubuntu Mate because the > Mate desktop is in my opinion the most reliable for blind and low-vision > people. > > Best regards, > Alex. > > Le 31/05/2018 ? 09:25, Milos Przic a ?crit?: > > Hello group, > > I have been here on the list for a few days now. Let me first introduce > > briefly, my name is Milos and I am from Serbia, a beginner in using Linux. > > I didn't want to install Ubuntu on my computer, I just tried using it from > > my usb flash, but the use seems to be much restricted. Then I wanted to > > install it as a virtual machine using VMWare, and everything seems to go > > well untill I try activating Orca. When I boot it from the flash drive and > > press alt+super+s, Orca starts speaking, but when I turn it on as a virtual > > machine, that same key combination doesn't do anything, eventhough I hear > > the sound that means that Ubuntu is up and running. > > What to try? > > Thanks to everyone in advance, and best regards! > > Milo? > > > > > > -- From milos.przic at gmail.com Thu May 31 09:49:08 2018 From: milos.przic at gmail.com (Milos Przic) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 11:49:08 +0200 Subject: Intro and a question References: <024201d3f8b0$85e31260$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> Message-ID: <000901d3f8c4$9f6bd8c0$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> Well, using the Be My Eyes app is a good solution, but as it is the virtual machine some volonteers don't know where exactly to look, and don't understand when I explain what I want. Best, Milos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" To: "Alex ARNAUD" ; "Milos Przic" ; "Ubuntu List" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:46 AM Subject: Re: Intro and a question > If Milos has an android device or an iPad or iPhone the be my eyes app > once installed can get him some sighted help. I've tried booting both > ubuntu and ubuntu-mate on a machine here after the restart dialog came > up and can't get either to boot. Or at least that's the way this seems > now. A little later today I'm going to get some sighted help and find > out what's really happening and I'll be back with that information. The > machine here has 1 gig of memory and earlier versions of ubuntu and > vinux worked on it in the past. The hard drive did come out of the > computer warm to the touch so maybe letting the hard drive cool off will > help matters. > > On Thu, 31 May 2018, Alex ARNAUD wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 05:09:45 >> From: Alex ARNAUD >> To: Milos Przic , >> Ubuntu List >> Subject: Re: Intro and a question >> >> Hello Milos, >> >> Could you access your computer from SSH ? Do you have sighted help ? How >> do >> you have tried to activate Orca ? >> >> For accessibility purposes, I advise you to choose Ubuntu Mate because >> the >> Mate desktop is in my opinion the most reliable for blind and low-vision >> people. >> >> Best regards, >> Alex. >> >> Le 31/05/2018 ? 09:25, Milos Przic a ?crit?: >> > Hello group, >> > I have been here on the list for a few days now. Let me first introduce >> > briefly, my name is Milos and I am from Serbia, a beginner in using >> > Linux. >> > I didn't want to install Ubuntu on my computer, I just tried using it >> > from >> > my usb flash, but the use seems to be much restricted. Then I wanted to >> > install it as a virtual machine using VMWare, and everything seems to >> > go >> > well untill I try activating Orca. When I boot it from the flash drive >> > and >> > press alt+super+s, Orca starts speaking, but when I turn it on as a >> > virtual >> > machine, that same key combination doesn't do anything, eventhough I >> > hear >> > the sound that means that Ubuntu is up and running. >> > What to try? >> > Thanks to everyone in advance, and best regards! >> > Milo? >> > >> > >> >> > > -- > From jdashiel at panix.com Thu May 31 09:57:36 2018 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 05:57:36 -0400 Subject: Intro and a question In-Reply-To: <000901d3f8c4$9f6bd8c0$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> References: <024201d3f8b0$85e31260$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> <000901d3f8c4$9f6bd8c0$1601a8c0@RCSmedCTRLPC> Message-ID: Idea, just ask for a reading of the screen and listen to the whole reading. No need to explain about vm, they're there to look. That will probably make your experience better. What you need them to help you with is a system status report on a computer. On Thu, 31 May 2018, Milos Przic wrote: > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 05:49:08 > From: Milos Przic > To: Jude DaShiell , Alex ARNAUD , > Ubuntu List > Subject: Re: Intro and a question > > Well, using the Be My Eyes app is a good solution, but as it is the virtual > machine some volonteers don't know where exactly to look, and don't understand > when I explain what I want. > Best, > Milos > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" > To: "Alex ARNAUD" ; "Milos Przic" > ; "Ubuntu List" > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: Intro and a question > > > > If Milos has an android device or an iPad or iPhone the be my eyes app > > once installed can get him some sighted help. I've tried booting both > > ubuntu and ubuntu-mate on a machine here after the restart dialog came > > up and can't get either to boot. Or at least that's the way this seems > > now. A little later today I'm going to get some sighted help and find > > out what's really happening and I'll be back with that information. The > > machine here has 1 gig of memory and earlier versions of ubuntu and > > vinux worked on it in the past. The hard drive did come out of the > > computer warm to the touch so maybe letting the hard drive cool off will > > help matters. > > > > On Thu, 31 May 2018, Alex ARNAUD wrote: > > > >> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 05:09:45 > >> From: Alex ARNAUD > >> To: Milos Przic , > >> Ubuntu List > >> Subject: Re: Intro and a question > >> > >> Hello Milos, > >> > >> Could you access your computer from SSH ? Do you have sighted help ? How do > >> you have tried to activate Orca ? > >> > >> For accessibility purposes, I advise you to choose Ubuntu Mate because the > >> Mate desktop is in my opinion the most reliable for blind and low-vision > >> people. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Alex. > >> > >> Le 31/05/2018 ? 09:25, Milos Przic a ?crit?: > >> > Hello group, > >> > I have been here on the list for a few days now. Let me first introduce > >> > briefly, my name is Milos and I am from Serbia, a beginner in using > >> > Linux. > >> > I didn't want to install Ubuntu on my computer, I just tried using it > >> > from > >> > my usb flash, but the use seems to be much restricted. Then I wanted to > >> > install it as a virtual machine using VMWare, and everything seems to go > >> > well untill I try activating Orca. When I boot it from the flash drive > >> > and > >> > press alt+super+s, Orca starts speaking, but when I turn it on as a > >> > virtual > >> > machine, that same key combination doesn't do anything, eventhough I hear > >> > the sound that means that Ubuntu is up and running. > >> > What to try? > >> > Thanks to everyone in advance, and best regards! > >> > Milo? > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > -- > > > > -- From jdashiel at panix.com Thu May 31 13:07:48 2018 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 09:07:48 -0400 Subject: ubuntu boot error Message-ID: Be My Eyes volunteer reports a message channel 2 not listing shows up on the screen. I have one sata drive attached in the second of two sata drive slots on a drive sled and this is what I used to install ubuntu in the first place. This is weird since I'm using slint to write this message with that slint drive installed in that sled and it is having no such problem but this channel message could have nothing to do with drives. I've never encountered a linux error message like this one before. Any ideas? -- From dcrone215 at gmail.com Thu May 31 14:46:22 2018 From: dcrone215 at gmail.com (Daniel Crone) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 09:46:22 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu tutorial Message-ID: Here is a link to a tutorial from Ubuntu. I cannot figure out how to move from one section to another. https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-burn-a-dvd-on-ubuntu#0 From milton at tomaatnet.nl Thu May 31 15:31:40 2018 From: milton at tomaatnet.nl (Milton) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 17:31:40 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu tutorial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9077f91d-c9e7-ef5c-e561-737f4758a9e9@tomaatnet.nl> Hi, You can Tab to 'Menu overview' and arrow down in this list. Press Enter on a subject and toggle to browse mode with Orca-key+a. You can go to the top of the page with Control+Home and start reading. Milton Op 31-05-18 om 16:46 schreef Daniel Crone: > Here is a link to a tutorial from Ubuntu. > I cannot figure out how to move from one section to another. > https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-burn-a-dvd-on-ubuntu#0 > From jdashiel at panix.com Thu May 31 20:41:18 2018 From: jdashiel at panix.com (Jude DaShiell) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 16:41:18 -0400 Subject: ubuntu boot failures mystery solved Message-ID: A lightning storm we had about a week earlier trashed my memory on the older computer. It didn't help since only 1 gig was available before the lightning did its damage so that old machine has been retired and had some salvage work done on it. --