[ubuntu-art] Theme Teams. Moving Forward. Making Stuff!
Sebastian Billaudelle
sebbil at gmx.de
Sat Jan 5 19:22:19 GMT 2008
Thats my opinion.
Thank you!
Am Samstag, den 05.01.2008, 16:54 +0200 schrieb Nemes Ioan Sorin:
> I personally take this Civitas Forum in a semi-serious mode.
> Why ?
>
> I put here on this community some questions - in time - and I add some
> points in discussion.
>
> Responses, generally - just disappoint me. Where I talk about serious
> problems such a programmatic way to rethink UI elements design - giving
> some examples, other peoples respond me they don't like the color of my
> example [ where the color was not the problem on topic ] - so I see some
> discussions are done in parallel - some peoples talk about something -
> other peoples understand everything else -> so being parallels they will
> not meet in the next gazillion of years. [this is not about Ken - I
> observe Ken has a good background, knowledges and leader qualities -
> this is good ].
>
> So regarding your question Sebastian - I am designer - I respect my job
> rules - for some applications I have to design custom graphics for form
> elements, and UI. I do Plex WT theme for XP few years ago.
>
> I can design elements for a new Ubuntu theme. But also I see here some
> talented guys that can do the same. Not a single problem here with
> designers. But with decision power.
>
> How I can help when I say "the things should be on this way(....), from
> Usability point of view" and other one after me will say "no, you're not
> right" ...so where my expertise can go ?. Is not important that I have
> some experience with this kind of things. Anyone will say NO and the
> problem is solved. ...waste of time, believe-me Sebastian - until the
> decisional mechanism is solved. Right now anyone is equal to anyone.
>
> This is the perfect terrain for the entropy rules (sad joke).
>
> For example shadowh511 said :
> > I think of a clean, simple OS. the color brown
> > represents cleanliness and simplicity, while blue represents sadness and
> > fear. If we want to have people download hardy, why not give them a
> > nice theme such as union and give them the desktop cube and the wobble
> > windows and all of that eye candy
>
> How could I can take this seriously ? Regarding colors - the problem is
> solved before we born - so when he "think", some peoples could affirm
> precisely where the problem is. Also a lack of maturity ->
> "why not give them a
> > nice theme such as union and give them the desktop cube and the wobble
> > windows and all of that eye candy"
>
> From his point of view all problems are solved with some wobble and
> some eye candy. That's all. No problem with the enterprise user - which
> has other rituals / values - no problem that Ubuntu must penetrate
> there, eyecandy and wobble will solve all... even healthy problems maybe.
>
> Well - this is a complex product with long term effects. But some
> peoples want just to see how their dreams come true - not important if
> this is in benefit of all (or almost all users) or not.
>
> Also we not need a theme - there are a lot - we want to do "default
> Ubuntu theme" (with minimum 3 color variations). That's the point. Hardy
> will be LTS.
> Hardy will go on enterprises and offices.
> That mean thousands of peoples with vary ages.
> Hardy is not just for few peoples with free time. This theme must cover
> a social demand - to be easy received by all that peoples / to be easy
> to work with / to be visually pleasant.
> To be clean, useful and distinctive for Ubuntu.
> This is not so easy to obtain - anyhow some proposals will not go too
> far with diagonal stripes on the scrollbar OR semitransparent buttons
> (on scrollbar on others sides) - at least corporate users will hate that
> because affect the look focus - also those stripes does not represent
> anything if favor of "clean" principle, being from start a complication.
>
> Here must be a distinction about how we like and what is good. But this
> mean maturity and professionalism - not just "I like this - I think that
> ..and so".
>
> Professionalism mean clear states in every domain "Yes and No" not "I
> think this could be.. " or ".. Maybe...", or with states as "Me, then
> Goethe...".
>
> So when I'll see a clean Idea in which I can believe OR when I'll see a
> structure where I can collaborate [anyhow you need to create a
> decisional structure - democracy, democracy but until when ?] - be sure
> I will participate with work and knowledge - on the mean time I am
> member of other Ubuntu teams and I have to fill daily bug reports and a
> lot of other stuff ...
>
> I will put some considerations about the Ubuntu 8.04 default theme in a
> later (maybe tomorrow) mail. We will see after that.
>
> Good luck - best wishes for everyone - and ..be minstrels not kings guys ;)
>
> SorinN
>
> Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
> > Well said!
> >
> > I think that many people don't take us (you?) seriously. The current
> > theme is years old...
> > Nobody uses the default theme (except of me, I think...).
> > If anybody woullead a team, I would join in. (I could do things like a
> > new GDM-theme...).
> >
> > Let's fight;-)
> >
> > Am Samstag, den 05.01.2008, 11:23 +0000 schrieb Who:
> >> All,
> >>
> >> On my schedule for this (potential) process, today was the day to
> >> decide whether or not we wanted to do this. Very few people have
> >> answered... Please answer.
> >>
> >> As it stands, with one suggested theme and no leader for it, we can't
> >> go ahead. There is just no point. Is there any support for this idea,
> >> or are people only here because they want to design the default theme
> >> (serious question, not an attack! ...please answer)
> >>
> >> In summary, here is why I think it is a good idea to do this
> >> * If you want your design to be available to Ubuntu users, this is the
> >> only certain way to do it
> >> * In the past, this team has had most success developing community
> >> themes (my opinion, but see below)
> >> * If we want to be taken more seriously as a team in the future,
> >> getting good stuff done well without offiicial hand-holding is
> >> important
> >> * Developing these themes is fun, seeing people using your theme is great
> >>
> >> But if we don't get people able to run them/do design we can't go
> >> forward. It is only sensible for me to drive a process like this a
> >> certain amount (i.e the leaders need to want to do it!, and do does
> >> the team)
> >>
> >> It occurs to me that if we can't even make a complete theme of ANY
> >> style to a good standard, we shouldn't expect to be taken seriously
> >> when we ask to design the default theme!
> >>
> >> Happy answering,
> >>
> >> Who
> >>
> >> On Jan 3, 2008 9:59 AM, Frank Schoep <frank at ffnn.nl <mailto:frank at ffnn.nl>> wrote:
> >> > On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:
> >> > > To all the new people around here - please pay attention to Who, he
> >> > > has been around here for a good while and knows the drill. …
> >> >
> >> > Absolutely – there are a few people on this list who've been around
> >> > for quite some time. I think this list is very fortunate to still
> >> > have experienced people like Who and Troy around, but it's also good
> >> > to see a lot of new enthusiastic people sharing their vision.
> >> >
> >> > > …
> >> > > We came close to the real deal once, was it Dapper?, where we got a
> >> > > few community themes, bundled, but not enabled, by default.
> >> >
> >> > I think you are referring to Edgy, as the Theme Teams were introduced
> >> > in that release. Eventually three themes ended up in universe, being
> >> > Blubuntu (Who / PingunZ), Peace (Chuck Huber) and Tropic (Viper550).
> >> >
> >> > While varying in quality and polish, the mere fact they were included
> >> > was a sign that independent small community groups could work towards
> >> > their own vision *and* meet the hard deadline constraints that were
> >> > set for them.
> >> >
> >> > > This happened solely because of two things:
> >> > > * A few people stood up and took responsibility for creating themes
> >> >
> >> > Indeed. There was a deadline for Theme Team applications a few weeks
> >> > into the release cycle so that the theme leaders needed to be
> >> > involved from the start up through a few weeks before release. For
> >> > Edgy, four leaders stepped up with a serious proposal.
> >> >
> >> > During the development period, we regularly discussed progress and
> >> > problems and where possible I tried to help out either myself or by
> >> > getting the right people in touch with each other.
> >> >
> >> > > * Daniel Holbach saved our asses with a lot of packaging work we
> >> > > really should have done our selves
> >> >
> >> > Daniel has historically helped out with a lot of packaging work,
> >> > indeed. For the Edgy Theme Teams, we made sure he only had one final
> >> > version to package per theme with room before the deadline, so they
> >> > wouldn't burden him much.
> >> >
> >> > > I think it would be very valuable to have a "History Page" on the wiki
> >> > > outlining the success and Failures of the art team. That would
> >> > > probably help to make it clear how we are doomed to repeat history
> >> > > unless people step up an take responsibility.
> >> >
> >> > While I can't say much about Feisty, Gutsy or Hardy-in-progress, I
> >> > could tell you about Edgy. As far as I know, Edgy was the first (and
> >> > last?) release to actively try and use community input as a viable
> >> > source for distribution artwork.
> >> >
> >> > Postmortem I did an interview with Linux.com on the Edgy cycle, and
> >> > there's some half-decent comments from Slashdot, too:
> >> > http://www.linux.com/feature/58477
> >> > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/14/2241255
> >> > ('Stroep' [sic])
> >> >
> >> > It seems that all the history we built on the Wiki has been shoveled
> >> > elsewhere or been dumped in a landfill altogether, but if you can
> >> > find it, you might be able to reconstruct a decent timeline along
> >> > with the mailing list.
> >> >
> >> > It was pretty high traffic during those days (July - October 2006)
> >> > and the ML / Wiki combination seemed to work somewhat satisfactory.
> >> >
> >> > All in all, Edgy was edgy to me – as you can read in the interview
> >> > the idea was to try something new, community artwork by default, and
> >> > since there were no trodden roads available I did my best to get and
> >> > keep things rolling in an enjoyable fashion.
> >> >
> >> > I think it worked out pretty well in terms of community involvement,
> >> > enthusiasm, commitment, process structure and raw output. Slightly
> >> > missing was the desired art *direction* but somehow I don't think
> >> > that problem's been resolved ever since, no flame or offense intended.
> >> >
> >> > If you'd ask me now, sure I'd do things different based on the Edgy
> >> > experience and the knowledge I've accumulated since then, but I think
> >> > the Edgy cycle already showed a lot of potential for the future
> >> > although it never got tapped into afterwards.
> >> >
> >> > Tell me if I'm wearing rose-colored glasses, thanks for reading.
> >> >
> >> > Sincerely,
> >> >
> >> > Frank
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> >> > ubuntu-art at lists.ubuntu.com <mailto:ubuntu-art at lists.ubuntu.com>
> >> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >> >
> >>
>
>
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