[Ubuntu-be] Silent computers' shop staat er klaar voor!-- Re: ubuntu-be Digest, Vol 82, Issue 16

[Jurgen Gaeremyn]

On 21-12-12 23:48, Samuel Derous wrote:
>
> Personally, while Martijn could have weighed his words more, I too 
> agree that this isn't much more than spam, and I too agree that it 
> doesn't matter if "silent computers" has done more or less than anyone 
> else for ubuntu-be... I get hundreds of this kind of mail in my spam 
> box... Fact is that in the same way, one could answer: "Go ask a 
> fnack-employee, he would know how to help you any further." But that 
> wasn't the question. Fact is that in that case much more than give 
> preferences for any shop where you can buy smartphones, isn't delivered.
>
> Greetz,
>
> Samuel
>

Fair enough... it certainly is on the edge. But if Fnac would indeed 
offer support on making this work under Ubuntu... it would be a valid 
post for his list (we had postings from people telling Dell was going to 
sell Ubuntu machines, nobody complained back then). So the bottom line 
is that you can't blow your own horn? If somebody else would have said: 
"Yeah, I went to Silent Computers, and they helped me out just great!" 
It wouldn't have been spam... but if they are proud in telling 
themselves... it is spam?

TODO: People considering spam an important issue on Ubuntu-be: write a 
clear code of conduct on the wiki - have it tweaked by notifying it on 
the mailinglist. If there's a consensus - that's great! People will 
stick to it, and you'll be able to refer to it. So all that's needed, is 
a decent wiki page on this topic. :) I won't make the effort, because I 
think it's no priority. I will read it though and comment on it, if I 
think it omits other fields (like netiquette) or starts to smell like 
censorship...

Grtz,
Jurgen.

> Op vrijdag 21 december 2012 19:58:02 schreef Jurgen Gaeremyn:
>
> Martijn,
>
> there's something else too that people should be fighting in mailing 
> lists... and that's trolls. People posting to a mailinglist without 
> contributing to the topic, but in the contrary fueling an (off topic) 
> discussion is considered trolling in my eyes.
>
> Secondly: (not talking about this specific situation here) No matter 
> how rude, stupid or wrong a person is... you *never* lower yourself to 
> that same level. This will never solve anything.
>
> As I already said... the given response was defenitely not spam. It 
> was a reply to a question asked. It was on topic. It might not have 
> been as well documented as I hoped it to be... but it was not at all 
> *unsollicited* since I asked about this topic. In the worst case, one 
> could call it a shameless plug. I know I have made publicity for 
> events of our hackerspace in the past too... (ouch, now I'm spamming, 
> I'm advertising our hackerspace)
>
> It's human to make mistakes... this counts for Valèri (Odds are he 
> won't be so stupid to help anyone on the mailinglist anymore) but also 
> for you. Be a big person, and learn from your mistakes. If you feel 
> someone is not abiding the rules of the mailinglist (but has a good 
> history), be polite and explain this person what mistake (s)he made. 
> This opens a door for the (so called) offender to apologize if he 
> agrees, or defend himself if he disagrees.
>
> Oh yeah... and on an ironic sidenote... if this were a real spammer - 
> he would thank us for sending out a gazillion more messages with his 
> company name in the title.
>
> Grtz,
> and have an excellent Christmas holiday...
> Jurgen.
>
>
> On 21-12-12 19:08, martijn cielen wrote:
>
> Hold your horses Wouter. You clearly completely misunderstood my 
> message. I do give a *** about the work any and all of you do. I 
> thought it was obvious I was talking about spammers. To clarify again: 
> when someone spams the ML, I don't give a *** about what they do for 
> the community. It's spam, and spam should be fought by any means.
>
> On Friday, 21 December 2012, Wouter Vandenneucker wrote:
>
> I personally felt offended by the sheer lack of Ubuntu/humanity in the 
> responses that followed.
>
> If one states that he didn't "give a *** what anyone (corporate or 
> individual) has done for anyone/anything" than that means he doesn't 
> care about any of the work I and others have put in to it. I find that 
> offensive and take it as a slap in the face.
>
>
> It shows of a lack of empathy, dignity and respect to others who might 
> or might not put more time and effort to things than that person him- 
> or herself. Although I would have taken it this way regardless of whom 
> it came from, I feel even more offended because it came from somebody 
> who signed the code of conduct! A code that starts with following words:
>
>
> Ubuntu is about showing humanity to one another: the word itself 
> captures the spirit of being human.
>
> A code that explicitly states that at all times you should be 
> respectful. One that states that disagreement is no excuse for poor 
> manners. One that states that you have to take responsibility for your 
> words and actions.
>
>
> I find myself today, struggling to keep believing that any work done 
> here is appreciated or even considered to be of any value.
>
>
> And with this rant and words that might mean more to some than others 
> I leave you
>
>
> Have a nice day all, who knows it might be our last.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Wouter Vandenneucker
>
>
> 2012/12/21 Jurgen Gaeremyn <jurgen.gaeremyn op pandora.be>
>
> Well,
>
> I didn't consider the initial answer as spam - I did take it as a 
> rather weak answer in the sense that there's no further help than only 
> offering to make a sale.
>
> I was hoping to get feedback in the sense of: "I'm using *blabla* on 
> my computer and *bla* on my Android device and it all works fine doing 
> these steps: *blablabla*" Or even: "Buy this device: *SomeDevice*, it 
> contains drivers for ubuntu" In extremis it could be: "let me google 
> this for you: *keyword 1* *keyword 2* ..."
>
> Obviously, if the solution you're offering is something you developed 
> in-house, and thus only offer to your customers... that's also an 
> option, and then the shop is he place to be.
>
> Well... but as disappointing as the answer was... the answer "spammer" 
> didn't help me any further either.
>
> Grtz,
> Jurgen
>
>
>
> On 21-12-12 13:25, tom verlinden wrote:
>
> Is there a "code of conduct", guidelines, on how to approach things 
> like this?
>
> What i'm trying to say is, what if you know a good link/shop/space 
> that can help you?
>
> What would be the appropriate action to take?
>
> Needless to say i too disagree with spamming any list, but it's 
> something i was asking myself just yet...
>
>
>
> 2012/12/21 martijn cielen <mcielen op gmail.com>
>
> Jan,
>
>
> frankly I don't give a *** what anyone (corporate or individual) has 
> done for anyone/anything when they abuse a mailing list to spam.
>
> When I send messages to this list, I use my personal address, and not 
> my commercial one. Ideally, others should do the same.
>
>
> Martijn
>
> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jan Bongaerts <jbongaerts op gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Easy now!
>
> Silent Computers has done more for ubuntu-be than most.
>
>
>
> 2012/12/20 martijn cielen <mcielen op gmail.com>
>
> spammer
>
> 2012/12/20 Lesia Valèri <lesiavaleri op gmail.com>
>
>
>
> Hi,
> daar is de Silent computers' shop voor!
> Stuurt die dame naar ons toe, wij zullen wel beste oplossing voor vi
>
>
>
>
>
>

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