help.ubuntu.com Unable to do searching

[Marko Oreskovic]

Dougie Richardson wrote:
>> Users could be expected to enable javascript for *.ubuntu.com
>> but since last update of help.ubuntu.com search dos not work
>> unless user enables javascript form .google.com
> 
> The search is conducted by the above function, so without it enabled it
> cannot work - Ubuntu isn't doing the search, Google is.

Since last month search was done exactly that way: Without Google
scripts. And without throwing users back to Google every time he/she
searches for Ubuntu documentation.
And it worked like that for YEARS until last month.
Last month someone suddenly decides that hepl.ubuntu.com will not work
without google javascript...

I don`t see why we should not have old solution available.
There is a solution available as I sended in quoted text.

>> Since most of the sites use google scripts it is out of question to
>> require users to use google.com javascript because it would have
>> negative impact on all user`s experience, security and cpu usage.
> 
> Can you qualify this? The script submits nothing not in the user agent

No I will not. I said airier all about that.
When I use Google.com it does not force me to use javascript at all.
it is out of question to enable it for every single page on internet
that wants to use it or pretend to use it.
Anyway, see:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2008-November/012189.html

> Disabling arguably the bet search algorithm available would
> have a negative impact on our users.

Ok, untill this thing is solved I will not think of participation in
Ubuntu documentation project.
Also I will inform my LOCO about this.

> How is security affected? 
Try to imagine that google scripts for Tracking users are enabled
on every page on internet that uses them to make site statistics.
Ok. Now why google should know what pages I am visiting?

> CPU usage? Bandwidth perhaps minimally as there is a call to an
> external script inline but not CPU usage - have you data to back
> this claim?
Calling ANY external script is Bad practice.
I devoted my trust to .ubuntu.com and I will not be forced
to trust anyone else's every-day changing scripts. I think I am clear here.
Anyway, if I don`t use Noscript Extension, My every day browsing will
be turned in the nightmare with all those flash and badly written
javascripts all over internet. That is enough.

>> Could old search that was working for many years since last month
>> be enabled again, for non-google-javascript users as workaround?
> 
> With respect, you are the only person to have mentioned this. Having
With respect, go and play hide-and-seek with someone else.

> followed this for some time, it reads that you have a personal distain
> of Google which you haven't quantified.
Ok, I will not quantify to you anything else.
Feel free to use google.com and google analytics scripts
on all pages you use. I don`t care.
I use google every day, I use gmail for non-personal things.
But I will NOT be forced to use any software that tracks me on internet
and that is not from ubuntu project. I think this is clear enough.

> I don't mean to be negative but there is a strong argument for Google:
> 1. Developing a search engine is time and resource consuming.
We had working solution since last month working well.
Request is that help.ubuntu.com does not use google scripts for
displaying results. Using google for search could be done on server side
and NOT on client side.
Request about not using google javascript on client side have nothing to
do with question What search engine is used on server side.

> 2. Its reinventing a wheel and one that works very well at that.
It is following Just right web site design recommendations.
Also for stupid people, only one search engine in the world should be
enough, right?
Again, Noone of users cares/should care about what searching technique
is used on server side.
Displaying of search results is BAD.

> 3. The old search function was inadequate, especially for community
> docs.
Ok, Old search is superior. Security wise and community wise and
better in any way. It looked better and worked not depending on any
third party service, neither requests from user to use third-party
software. Also new search forces user to go BACK to google pages
so it does not stay inside help.ubunut.com site and that ruins
user experience. Next time he will go to google to search
and will not use help.ubunut.com at all. help.ubuntu.com becomes
absolete.

And finally, try to go on https://help.ubuntu.com using your Firefox.
(Make sure google.com script is enabled)
Firefox recognize help.ubuntu.com as unsecure (displays "!" on the lock)
Reason:
 Connection Partially Encrypted
 Parts of the page you are viewing not encrypted before transmitted over
 Internet.
 Information sent over the Internet without encryption can be seen by
 other people while it is in transit.

So using google com transmit my requests intended for help.ubuntu.com
directly to third party over insecure connection and that further
reduces user`s privacy.

> Merry Christmas,
> 
> Dougie
> 
>>> Matthew East wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Marko Oreskovic
>>> <markoresko at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>>>>>>> I have sent Matt a patch that will display the help.ubuntu.com
>>>>>>> header, with search box, consistently with and without
>>>>>>> javascript enabled. Hopefully he can apply it soon...
>>>>> It seems that non-JavaScript solution still is not working.
>>>>> (Not implemented yet)
>>> It is now working for help.ubuntu.com/community (the wiki). Users
>>> visiting the wiki without javascript enabled can use the search bar.
>>>
>>> This hasn't been rolled out yet to help.ubuntu.com (the static
>>> pages) because doing so requires a complete rebuild of the website,
>>> which is rather time consuming. I haven't had a lot of time
>>> recently.
>>>
>>> -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF 
>>