[ubuntu-in] Giving up the GIMP is a sign of Ubuntu's mainstream maturity - A rebuttal

[Dibyajyoti Mohapatra]

I agree to Ram for the below point, GIMP must not be removed but only do not
agree with the comment that ubuntu is "dumbed down version of Linux". The
fact is they always try to make ubuntu in a such way which will be
lightweight and flexible which first touches a newbie's mentality to try it
out. No other distribution is as NEAT as ubuntu. That's key reason why no
other Linux distribution could spread as ubuntu did. So ubuntu is smart in
its way :)

However softwares such as thunderbird, wvdial & GIMP should not be removed
and removing such packages has nothing to do with maturity. Maturity users
can customize their system in their own way anyways.

Also I believe that if ubuntu was available in CD as well as DVD versions,
it would be great. Now when I promote ubuntu to someone, "I say you must
have a good internet connection for the first time set up". Giving out all
packages in DVD will provide more options at various scenarios. If I have a
good internet connection I'll download the CD quickly and if I don't have
then I'll find a DVD and taste it offline.

Finally I want to know whether discussing these topics here, are we reaching
ubuntu developers in any way? I am new to this mailing list and I don't know
whether they are included here.


--Dipu




On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Ramnarayan.K <ramnarayan.k at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi
>
> Some days back i had posted about some software being dropped from
> future releases of Ubuntu, and this included GIMP
>
> An article by Ryan Paul, who was present when the decision was taken
> to drop GIMP from 10.04 is linked here
>
> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/11/giving-up-the-gimp-is-a-sign-of-ubuntus-mainstream-maturity.ars
>
> I am angry, because if there is one software that i really look
> forward too then its GIMP. Everything else is replaceable and
> duplicable – not GIMP.
>
> What is below is a User's rebuttal to the Ubuntu Developers who are
> deciding to drop. (the number points are extracts from the article
> text which i have chosen to respond to)
>
> 1. Dropping GIMP is a sign of “Ubuntu's growing maturity as a
> mainstream platform for regular users”
>
> So who are the regular users – I have been a user since Ubuntu's first
> version and GIMP has always been my favorite, even if not the most
> used software. It allowed me a feel of what all is possible, it
> allowed me to express my creativity such that no other software could,
> it allows me the happiness of knowing that my machine is running
> worldclass software and not some imitation. No other popular Ubuntu
> software comes close. And as a “mature” and “regular” user i need
> GIMP.
>
> Are we also to assume that , as we users mature, we should move to a
> distribution thats more advanced and that Ubuntu is essentially just a
> dumbed down beginners version.
>
> 2. Its size footprint is especially problematic for Ubuntu,
>
> Yes GIMP is big, how big, synaptic says, gimp and gimp-data total to
> 48.3 MB. I am sure that the developers can find a way to squeeze this
> on. Compression technology is fairly advanced and knoppix type
> Distributions pack far more than what Ubuntu manages for the same
> space so how about including mHowever lets look at their condition
> that the base install medium should be a CD. DVD's have become quite
> ubiquitous, prices of DVD's now are less than what CD's where at the
> time of the first Ubuntu distribution. So instead of dumping software
> i think Ubuntu should start providing more – like include more
> exciting stuff – celestia or stellarium, inscape, scribus, pdf tools,
> audacity, kompozer, etc etc. I am sure there are tonnes of stuff out
> there that can be included without detracting from the simple and
> friendly approach and even if they are not installed by defualt they
> are available to the user on the install medium.
>
> 3. There is a clear need for a lighter editing program that will start
> faster and eschew features that are unnecessary for a majority of
> users.
>
> The replacement being offered is F-Spot – which the author says was
> redone in an hour and a half to fill the gap being left by GIMP. So we
> regular users now have to simply shift to F-spot because the UD's say
> so. How about first providing us with a trial and then letting us
> regular users decide if its worth it. F-spot has never been good
> enough in the first place and its inclusion over something like gthumb
> has always left me confused let alone as a replacement for GIMP.
>
> 4. The removal of a niche professional graphics editing tool reflects
> Ubuntu's growing maturity as a mainstream platform for regular users.
>
> I wonder if the number of regular users of Ubuntu are less than the
> number of new users joining in. If so they maybe its time to figure
> out if its worth having a separate distribution for newcomers , who i
> think the developers think are dumb and not in a position to use gimp
> and for not so dumb regulars who slog very hard to make the base
> install of Ubuntu complete but installing a host of missing
> applications.
>
> As far are niche software goes – every thing about Ubuntu is niche
>
>         - openoffice is a software used by office oriented
> professionals so drop this and replace it with a text editor or maybe
> some other scaled down lite version, after what do we need this slow
> to load and heavy application for. We can easily get it from the
> repository if need be.
>
>         - Similarly dump evolution – afterall only a user whose used
> it before is going to use this, a new user won't even know about a
> mail client will they.
>
>         - How about Firefox, the flag bearer of the open source
> initiative. This is definetely a niche product, since it makes up only
> 25% of the installed browsers, thus i urge the Ubuntu Developers to
> give us something more light weight and less nichey, I hope they have
> something in mind. Firefox is too professional, heavy, slow and
> niched.
>
>         - Finally Ubuntu itself is only used by a small portion of
> the computer users so why not drop this niche idea and just move on.
>
> 5. Still easy to get GIMP from the repositories
>
> The trend of dropping software has been noticeable – first thunderbird
> disappears from the install CD, then gthumb, wvdial and now GIMP. As a
> regular Ubuntu user, and many others like me, every time we upgrade or
> reinstall we have to either spend hours travelling and reaching a
> broadband place and installing large numbers of other software to make
> our system complete or wait till we lay our hands on repository DVD's.
>
> No its not easy to get GIMP or any of the other software thats not on
> the install CD. And this trend of having to depend on sources other
> then the base install medium does not help at all. This is painful
> enough that we have to wait to install critical software, not
> available on our initial install medium.
>
> 6. I think that when people take a step back and objectively assess
> the implications of removing the GIMP from the default installation,
> they will see that it is really the right decision.
>
> When i step back and think the only thought is that instead of the
> default Ubuntu i will need to source a more complete deriviative or an
> alternative Linux version that is more responsive to a regular users
> needs. Ubuntu will , for me, be consigned to being a dumbed down
> version of Linux not world class, not worthy of replacing a complete
> OS and, not worthy of being promoted.
>
> End note
>
> I am a very active promoter of Linux and Ubuntu. Usually there are a
> few copies of the latest Ubuntu that are always on me and at every
> given chance i show it off – both on my machine as well as a live
> session on some one elses machine. Invariably the first software i
> show off is GIMP and what it can do to images – editing, adding text,
> adding layers, scaling etc, and this gets people very impressed. In
> todays day of instant digital devices the most prominent digital use
> is of images – so apart from a good image viewer and manager there is
> a need for a good image editor and for that there is no replacement
> for GIMP.
>
> So while giving up GIMP is a sign of Ubuntu's main stream maturity I
> will be giving up on Ubuntu and look to move on to some thing that
> looks to meet my needs.
>
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