Call for comments on IRCC nominees

Thu Dec 17 01:47:59 UTC 2009

No worries Mike, still love you :)

As to the facebook thing, it was me that was offending.  I tend to get  
quite lippy on facebook.  I just didn't realize what is said and done  
on a social network site can be held against a person.  That sucks,  
and should stop.
People should be able to express thselves outside the community  
however they like.  Usually people who are trying to make a name for  
themselves run to the CC about how "this or that" is offensive.  As  
long as it has nothing to do with Ubuntu, or related projects, who  
really cares?

"The CC is not your mommy" - that's for the 20 or more people who  
complained to the CC about me regarding my saterical facebook posts :)

One word of advice if you get one of the spots.  DO NOT GET INVOLVED  
in the petty cliques that prevail ammong the current ops.  You will  
have no respect from them because you are an outsider, and you need to  
be able to say (once the charter is done) you act as an Ubuntu op, or  
hit the road.  There ate litterally thousands of really great people  
in Ubuntu channels who would be more
Than happy to manage a channel the way the IRCC an CC want their  
channels run.  There will never be a
shortage of happy helpers who would make great ops.  And the crusty  
old ops who scoff at people when they join -ops NEED TO GO AWAY.   
Guess what, you crusty old jaded ops aren't the only ones who know how  
to mute, ban, kick, etc.....   Great ops take time to MSG the troll to  
see what the real issue might be.  90% of the time I jumpped in and  
helped out on an !ops call - the "troll" was only a brand new user who  
had no idea what people were telling them to do.

Not all user who are disruptive are trolls.

But trolls do need delt with in the same kind way - pm, you see they  
are a troll, just let them know why you are about to ban them.   
Sometimes trolls can change their stripes

What the ops team has lost is the belief "there is good in everyone".  
They have stopped trying to find that good part, no matter how small.

Anywho - enough preaching

Peace out
Steve

On Dec 16, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Michael Lustfield  
<mtecknology at ubuntu.com> wrote:

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> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:23:52 -0700
> Steve Stalcup <vorian at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I don't know you really well, but I think you're somewhat new to  
>> the community.
> I've only been using Ubuntu since 5.04 (was just being released) which
> was the first time I used Linux. I used Gentoo for a while in there. I
> also manage other distros and work with other projects.
>
> I guess that does make me pretty new still. I have learned a lot in
> that short time though.
>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Michael Lustfield
>> <mtecknology at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>>
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>>> We don't need any people bashing.
>>>
>>> As far as elky causing issues; I know I've personally dragged her  
>>> into
>>> a disagreement more than once. I don't see elky as someone that  
>>> causes
>>> issues. She has always come into look at the issue and voice her
>>> opinion. This is from my limited experience with her directly.
>>>
>>> This is also how I expect others to act. When there is an issue, the
>>> responsible IRCC, CC, or Op steps to see what's going on, develops  
>>> on
>>> opinion from their view, acts on it. If I'm wrong, please correct  
>>> me...
>>
>> I've idled in -ops for who knows how many years now Mike, and I've
>> seen some rather disturbing things which start with 00:00 < elky>  or
>> in the good ol days 00:00 < elkbuntu>.  There are many things I  
>> wish I
>> could share, but I can point you in the direction of
>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/.  Feel free to see if what I said is
>> accurate - and it goes years back.
>>
>>> Af far as somebody withdrawing there nomination from what was said  
>>> on
>>> Facebook... It's "Facebook" it's the replacement for "MySpace." Take
>>> anything said on facebook with a grain-of-salt and a
>>> shot-of-penicillin. It's not worth worrying about what they say at  
>>> all.
>>
>> My withdrawel from this is about a few things.  I am jaded.  I am
>> burned out.  I've done the loco thing, it went really well, then I  
>> got
>> burned out.  Then I was a forum staffer for a couple of years, and  
>> got
>> burned out.  I got into the devel side of things a few years back  
>> with
>> a lot of help (you see, I'm not a very smart person and have zero
>> computer training)  I worked really hard to become a motu, and was a
>> hairs length away from becoming a core-dev.  That was a drama I don't
>> want to re-live.  I'm happy helping out on the motu team and the
>> motu-release team and package-training-coordinating teams.  I am more
>> than happy to have a trusted sponsor upload my packages to main - it
>> helps me improve and it's also a really great sanity check.
>
> I remember a thread previously with burn out. If that's the reason for
> the withdrawal I won't argue. I just don't want to see somebody walk
> away because of something they saw on facebook. Especially someone as
> knowledgeable as you.
>>
>> People change, grow, etc... the community changes and grows.  I have
>> to admit, I have become jaded in many ways about how things work.   
>> The
>> people who are selected to be on this council need to be energetic
>> about making real change.  There has been damage done due to a  
>> certain
>> member of the IIRC - and people who are smart, energetic, and ready  
>> to
>> do some REALLY hard work to get things working right are the people  
>> we
>> need on the council.  We are guests of freenode, and they are really
>> amazing at dealing with our (Ubuntu's) needs - they go out of their
>> way when they don't have to, and they get people like ekly and  
>> hobbsee
>> telling them how to run their own network.
>>
>>> I have my personal feelings about everyone on this list. If you feel
>>> there is an issue with someone then there is no reason not to  
>>> bring it
>>> to this list. However, we DO NOT need "your the reason for all the
>>> issues cuz i sez so." Let's keep this list professional. If you  
>>> have an
>>> issue then bring it to the list, explain what the issue is, and give
>>> something substantial.
>>>
>>> Example of something useful: "I'm not sure that I can support  
>>> Michael
>>> because he has in the past caused a huge fuss with the decision of  
>>> an
>>> op in #ubuntu-us. He seemed rather unstable and I feel he would  
>>> have a
>>> bad impact on the IRCC." <- Of course we got everything worked out.
>>>
>>> Example of something not useful in the least: Read below and  
>>> previously
>>> in this thread.
>>>
>>> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:56:01 -0700
>>> Steve Stalcup <stalcups at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd rather disagree with the endorsment on elky.  She tends to be  
>>>> at
>>>> the center of any contraversy I've seen throughout the years.   
>>>> She is
>>>> probably even more jaded than I.  Elky is also the root cause of  
>>>> many
>>>> of our current problems, including our relationship with freenode.
>>>> Elky gives this project a bad name in the eyes of many outside  
>>>> observers
>>>>
>>>> Nhandler would be awesome imo, but I'm not so sure he'll like my
>>>> Endorsement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> For the record, it's not just Steve but rather a group of people  
>>> that
>>> have taken the opportunity to bash others without any reason aside  
>>> from
>>> what is apparently "I don't like you."
>>
>> Mike, due to my involvment with freenode and PDPC as a volunteer  
>> staff
>> member, I am not at liberty to discuss specific examples.  I hope you
>> and the CC can understand that we keep issues under the utmost
>> confidence.  The evidence against Elkbuntu is all in the logs -
>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
>
> I can fully understand that. I wasn't referring to just you. I was  
> also
> referring to how this has gone on many times in the past. I'm just
> irritated with it.
>
> I'm sorry if this came across as me attacking you specifically. I
> didn't mean that in the least.
>>
>> Peace out,
>> Steve
>>
>
>
> - --
> Michael Lustfield
> Kalliki Software
>
> Network and Systems Administrator
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