Ubuntu-l10n-nl Verzamelmail, Volume 46, Nummer 1

Ted Jansen tjusb1 op gmail.com
Di Jan 11 11:54:42 UTC 2011 

Ik kan de vergadering van 1 feb niet bijwonen


Groeten Tedje
2011/1/8 <ubuntu-l10n-nl-request op lists.ubuntu.com>

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> Onderwerpen van vandaag:
>
>   1. Re: Not happy at all (Danilo ?egan)
>   2. Re: Ubuntu-handleiding in het Nederlands (Gerard)
>   3. Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Not happy at all (Danilo ?egan)
>   4. Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Not happy at all (Khaled Hosny)
>   5. Re: Not happy at all (Ask Hjorth Larsen)
>   6. Verzoek om lid te worden van het vertaalteam (Gerhard Burger)
>   7. Re: Not happy at all (Danilo ?egan)
>   8. [Bug 562369] Re: Frisian is not Western Frisian or 'West
>      Fries' (Dooitze de Jong)
>   9. Re: Verzoek om lid te worden van het vertaalteam
>      (lafeber-dumoleyn2)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:24:17 +0100
> From: Danilo ?egan <danilo op canonical.com>
> To: Ask Hjorth Larsen <asklarsen op gmail.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-nl Mailing list <ubuntu-l10n-nl op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        ubuntu-translators maillijst <ubuntu-translators op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        lafeber-dumoleyn2 <lafeber-dumoleyn2 op zonnet.nl>,
>  ubuntu-manual
>        <ubuntu-manual op lists.launchpad.net>
> Subject: Re: Not happy at all
> Message-ID: <1293107057.2439.47.camel op bljubuntu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Ask,
>
> ? ???, 22. 12 2010. ? 13:01 +0100, Ask Hjorth Larsen ????:
>
> > It's unfortunate that the `fuzzy' feature of gettext is not supported
> > in LP, and there have been previous discussions in the manual team
> > about what to do, but there's no really good solution as it is.
>
> Perhaps we should really just turn fuzzy translations into suggestions.
> It wouldn't be a big deal for us, but:
>
>  1. people *will* mistakenly approve suggestions which look almost the
> same (imagine someone fixing a typo of a missing "not" in a long
> documentation message: I will bet you that most people will not notice
> the "not" and will just approve the existing translation); this is a
> problem even with offline translation, but Launchpad makes it very easy
> to make this mistake for reviewers
>  2. if msgmerge was not done prior to the import, there won't be any
> benefit
>  3. people will expect this to actually work, and yet it wouldn't (iow,
> we'll get questions why was there not a suggestion for one string or
> another, and those questions are nothing but a distraction); today we
> just get feature requests about this :)
>
> Those are the reasons why it's not behaving like that today.  We do,
> however, want to have a smart "similarity matching" feature for
> suggestions.  That's a lot more work.  I'd be happy to guide anyone with
> some time on their hands into implementing that.
>
> Cheers,
> Danilo
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2011 17:07:38 +0100
> From: Gerard <g.meulen op net.hcc.nl>
> To: Ubuntu-NL MailingList <Ubuntu-NL op lists.ubuntu.com>
> Cc: Ubuntu-NL vertalingen maillijst <ubuntu-l10n-nl op lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Ubuntu-handleiding in het Nederlands
> Message-ID: <4D20A2CA.8090608 op net.hcc.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Een HTML-bijlage is gescrubt...
> URL: <
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-l10n-nl/attachments/20110102/16d8bcda/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:40:40 +0100
> From: Danilo ?egan <danilo op canonical.com>
> To: Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny op eglug.org>
> Cc: ubuntu-nl Mailing list <ubuntu-l10n-nl op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        ubuntu-translators maillijst <ubuntu-translators op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        Ask Hjorth Larsen <asklarsen op gmail.com>, Kevin Godby
>        <godbyk op gmail.com>,     ubuntu-manual <
> ubuntu-manual op lists.launchpad.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Not happy at all
> Message-ID: <1293108040.2439.61.camel op bljubuntu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> ? ???, 22. 12 2010. ? 22:35 +0200, Khaled Hosny ????:
> > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 06:51:15PM +0100, Ask Hjorth Larsen wrote:
> > > My opinion on what we need technically:
> > >
> > > Fuzzy matching and a word-wise po-file diffing utility.
> >
> > Lunchpad developers seem not to think that translators effort and
> > resources is worthy saving, this is not the first time this issue is
> > brought up.
>
> Exactly. We hate you and want you to suffer. That's our idea of good
> time.
>
> Cheers,
> Danilo
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 23:13:51 +0200
> From: Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny op eglug.org>
> To: Kevin Godby <godbyk op gmail.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-nl Mailing list <ubuntu-l10n-nl op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        ubuntu-translators maillijst <ubuntu-translators op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        lafeber-dumoleyn2 <lafeber-dumoleyn2 op zonnet.nl>,
>  ubuntu-manual
>        <ubuntu-manual op lists.launchpad.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Not happy at all
> Message-ID: <20101223211351.GA3921 op khaled-laptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 11:26:47AM -0600, Kevin Godby wrote:
> > We've tossed around the idea of ditching Launchpad and creating our
> > own translation system, but I haven't had time to research the issue
> > or think about it much yet.  We'd need to sit down with translators,
> > editors, and developers to establish what our needs are and what a
> > translation system is actually capable of doing.  If you have any
> > suggestions or ideas with regard to this sort of thing (or would like
> > to kick off a discussion about it), I'd love to hear them!
>
> Recently I worked on Arabic translation of "FOSS localisation manual[1]"
> and there were also French and Spanish translations. The files are
> hosted on a Pootle server[2] with translators either working on-line or
> off-line (I work off-line myself). Merging updates of English text were
> straight forward and no translations were lost. The English manual were
> written on OOo ans saved as ODT file, converted to PO, and translations
> were converted back to ODT files (though I ended up typesetting the
> final Arabic version using TeX[3] because I don't like the un-typography
> of office suites).
>
> I'm not suggesting you use Pootle (though I think it is a great tool)
> but merely highlighting that translating a book collaboratively on a
> tool originally designed for software translation need not to suck.
>
>
> [1] http://www.africanlocalisation.net/foss-localisation-manual
> [2] http://pootle.locamotion.org/projects/foss_manual/
> [3] http://www.khaledhosny.org/node/160
>
> Regards,
>  Khaled
>
> --
>  Khaled Hosny
>  Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
>  Free font developer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 14:19:16 +0100
> From: Ask Hjorth Larsen <asklarsen op gmail.com>
> To: Danilo ?egan <danilo op canonical.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-nl Mailing list <ubuntu-l10n-nl op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        ubuntu-translators maillijst <ubuntu-translators op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        lafeber-dumoleyn2 <lafeber-dumoleyn2 op zonnet.nl>,
>  ubuntu-manual
>        <ubuntu-manual op lists.launchpad.net>
> Subject: Re: Not happy at all
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTimJWS+La5T8iDKt3b2_AYkNawKkZkwVhfHjVzdN op mail.gmail.com<AANLkTimJWS%2BLa5T8iDKt3b2_AYkNawKkZkwVhfHjVzdN op mail.gmail.com>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Danilo ?egan <danilo op canonical.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Ask,
> >
> > ? ???, 22. 12 2010. ? 13:01 +0100, Ask Hjorth Larsen ????:
> >
> >> It's unfortunate that the `fuzzy' feature of gettext is not supported
> >> in LP, and there have been previous discussions in the manual team
> >> about what to do, but there's no really good solution as it is.
> >
> > Perhaps we should really just turn fuzzy translations into suggestions.
> > It wouldn't be a big deal for us, but:
> >
> >  1. people *will* mistakenly approve suggestions which look almost the
> > same (imagine someone fixing a typo of a missing "not" in a long
> > documentation message: I will bet you that most people will not notice
> > the "not" and will just approve the existing translation); this is a
> > problem even with offline translation, but Launchpad makes it very easy
> > to make this mistake for reviewers
> >  2. if msgmerge was not done prior to the import, there won't be any
> > benefit
> >  3. people will expect this to actually work, and yet it wouldn't (iow,
> > we'll get questions why was there not a suggestion for one string or
> > another, and those questions are nothing but a distraction); today we
> > just get feature requests about this :)
> >
> > Those are the reasons why it's not behaving like that today.  We do,
> > however, want to have a smart "similarity matching" feature for
> > suggestions.  That's a lot more work.  I'd be happy to guide anyone with
> > some time on their hands into implementing that.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Danilo
>
> Hi Danilo
>
> I agree that fuzzies should not be labeled as "suggestions" for the
> reasons you mention.  But it would be great the fuzzies could be
> displayed with a different label like "Fuzzy", although possibly more
> descriptive like "This string may be similar to...".  Then the
> reviewer will know that this was not a suggestion as such, and will be
> more careful.  (If the project expects high-quality translations, the
> reviewer will presumably be a member of a translation team, and can be
> expected to at least follow some basic instructions.)
>
> If this is too much of an interface change, the text accompanying the
> suggestion could instead be changed from the present form:
>
>  Suggested in coreutils in Ubuntu Intrepid package "coreutils" by Ask
> Hjorth Larsen on 2010-03-08
>
> to something like
>
>  This suggestion was chosen by a computer based on existing similar strings
>
> Wouldn't this mostly solve the fuzzy issue, and require less work than
> a new similarity matching feature?  Sorry to further derail the
> discussion.  (It's unrealistic for me to help with implementation for
> the next 10 months or so, although I would love to if I had more time)
>
> Best regards
> Ask
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 13:11:09 +0100
> From: Gerhard Burger <burger.ga op gmail.com>
> To: ubuntu-l10n-nl op lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Verzoek om lid te worden van het vertaalteam
> Message-ID: <4D230E5D.4050907 op gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Beste leden van het vertaalteam,
>
> Laat ik beginnen om mezelf even voor te stellen: ik ben Gerhard Burger,
> 22 jaar en geboren en getogen op de Veluwe. Op het moment ben ik een
> masterstudent wiskunde aan de Utrecht Universiteit. Sinds enkele jaren
> ben ik een fervent gebruiker van Ubuntu en probeer ik mijn enthousiasme
> over te brengen op de mensen om mij heen. Tegelijk wil ik graag een
> bijdrage leveren aan Ubuntu en aanverwante projecten; de directe
> aanleiding tot het schrijven van dit verzoek om lid te worden van het
> vertaalteam.
> Behalve mijn recente bijdrage aan de Linux Mint vertaling heb ik niet
> veel ervaring met vertaalwerk. Wel heb ik een goede beheersing van de
> Nederlandse en Engelse taal. Mijn beheersing van de Engelse taal heb ik
> opgedaan door mijn internationale familie, en tijdens mijn Liberal Arts
> and Sciences studie aan de Roosevelt Academy, een international
> georiënteerde, Engelstalige bachelor.  Ook heb ik ervaring met HTML.
> Graag zou ik mijn kennis gebruiken om Ubuntu nog beter te maken dan het
> al is, en ik hoop op een positieve reactie. Alvast vriendelijk bedankt
> voor de moeite.
>
> Vriendelijke groet,
> Gerhard Burger
> https://launchpad.net/~burger.ga
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:26:31 +0100
> From: Danilo ?egan <danilo op canonical.com>
> To: lafeber-dumoleyn2 <lafeber-dumoleyn2 op zonnet.nl>
> Cc: ubuntu-nl Mailing list <ubuntu-l10n-nl op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        ubuntu-translators maillijst <ubuntu-translators op lists.ubuntu.com>,
>        Ask Hjorth Larsen <asklarsen op gmail.com>,        ubuntu-manual
>        <ubuntu-manual op lists.launchpad.net>
> Subject: Re: Not happy at all
> Message-ID: <1293107191.2439.49.camel op bljubuntu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> ? ???, 22. 12 2010. ? 16:26 +0100, lafeber-dumoleyn2 ????:
>
> > So the best solution would be not to make minor changes, unless it is
> > absolutely necessary. There is no problem with completely new strings
> > because these have not been translated yet.
>
> That should be a general policy for any project which cares about
> translations anyway.  One should not change strings just for the sake of
> it, because it means extra work for a bunch of translators.  Even if
> it's just going through "fuzzy" translations from a previous version of
> a string, it's still work that can be avoided.
>
> However, do note that free software tools for documentation translations
> are generally lacking, and Launchpad is no exception (unfortunately).
>
> Cheers,
> Danilo
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2011 11:44:29 -0000
> From: Dooitze de Jong <562369 op bugs.launchpad.net>
> To: ubuntu-l10n-nl op lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: [Bug 562369] Re: Frisian is not Western Frisian or 'West
>        Fries'
> Message-ID: <20110102114431.588.47772.launchpad op potassium.ubuntu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> ** Changed in: ubuntu-translations
>       Status: In Progress => Fix Committed
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
> Dutch Translators, which is a direct subscriber.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/562369
>
> Title:
>  Frisian is not Western Frisian or 'West Fries'
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 08:35:03 +0100
> From: lafeber-dumoleyn2 <lafeber-dumoleyn2 op zonnet.nl>
> To: Gerhard Burger <burger.ga op gmail.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-nl Mailing list <ubuntu-l10n-nl op lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Verzoek om lid te worden van het vertaalteam
> Message-ID: <4D2813A7.4080602 op zonnet.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Beste Gerhard,
> Dank voor deze aanmelding. Je bent van harte welkom in ons team.
> Binnenkort stuur ik je een uitgebreid antwoord over hoe alles bij ons
> werkt.
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Hannie Dumoleyn
>
> Op 04-01-11 13:11, Gerhard Burger schreef:
> > Beste leden van het vertaalteam,
> >
> > Laat ik beginnen om mezelf even voor te stellen: ik ben Gerhard Burger,
> > 22 jaar en geboren en getogen op de Veluwe. Op het moment ben ik een
> > masterstudent wiskunde aan de Utrecht Universiteit. Sinds enkele jaren
> > ben ik een fervent gebruiker van Ubuntu en probeer ik mijn enthousiasme
> > over te brengen op de mensen om mij heen. Tegelijk wil ik graag een
> > bijdrage leveren aan Ubuntu en aanverwante projecten; de directe
> > aanleiding tot het schrijven van dit verzoek om lid te worden van het
> > vertaalteam.
> > Behalve mijn recente bijdrage aan de Linux Mint vertaling heb ik niet
> > veel ervaring met vertaalwerk. Wel heb ik een goede beheersing van de
> > Nederlandse en Engelse taal. Mijn beheersing van de Engelse taal heb ik
> > opgedaan door mijn internationale familie, en tijdens mijn Liberal Arts
> > and Sciences studie aan de Roosevelt Academy, een international
> > georiënteerde, Engelstalige bachelor.  Ook heb ik ervaring met HTML.
> > Graag zou ik mijn kennis gebruiken om Ubuntu nog beter te maken dan het
> > al is, en ik hoop op een positieve reactie. Alvast vriendelijk bedankt
> > voor de moeite.
> >
> > Vriendelijke groet,
> > Gerhard Burger
> > https://launchpad.net/~burger.ga
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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