[Ubuntu-US-CA] the shirts

[Alan Ostlund]

Would anyone wonder why we have trouble getting things done for Ubuntu?  
This is the most posts I have read at anytime, and it is about something 
so small and having a choice in t-shirts.  What should be debated is 
what is on _the_ t-shirt.  Like most democracies, we tend to be are own 
worst enemy.

Alan Ostlund

Larry Cafiero wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Nathan Haines <nhaines at ubuntu.com 
> <mailto:nhaines at ubuntu.com>> wrote:
>
>     On Thu, 2009-10-15 at 10:15 -0700, Larry Cafiero wrote:
>
>     >
>     > Good. We all should, and hopefully do. However, you don't seem to be
>     > bothered by making a statement implying dividing shirts into those
>     > with "ponies" (subtext: a "girl" motif) and those that don't.
>
>     I don't think calling out what was a disappointingly sexist remark
>     (although probably in an attempt to be politically correct, to
>     give the
>     benefit of the doubt) is sexist.
>
>
> Good. I'm glad you don't mind that I called you out for making one, 
> despite being way off base about why I did it. Hint: It wasn't to be 
> politically correct, and let me suggest that assuming someone says 
> something just to be "PC" is always a weak argument. The "ponies" 
> statement was sexist. I appreciate the fact that you recognize this.
>
>
>     > Incidentally, I'm just wondering: In light of this and Mark
>     > Shuttleworth's arguable gaffes at LinuxCon, is it community
>     policy to
>     > dig yourself in deeper after you say something ridiculous, or is the
>     > phrase, "Gee, I'm sorry. I seem to have misspoken" forbidden
>     from the
>     > community's lexicon?
>
>     I did not misspeak when I said that the premise that a simple
>     shirt with
>     a logo on both sides needed to be planned specially with women in mind
>     because they had some sort of alien fashion sensibility was completely
>     non sequitur with the idea that they are people too, which was
>     spoken in
>     the same breath by the person who suggested it.
>
>
> That would be nice, Nathan, except you seem to be falling into your 
> typical cherry-picking of statements irrelevant to the main argument 
> that, in several cases over the past several months, has bogged down 
> the list.
>
> Suffice to say, the logo was not the issue when the original poster 
> made his comment about separate shirts for men and women -- that was 
> my understanding, although the original poster is free to jump in here 
> and correct me. Also, with a limited knowledge of fashion, my 
> understanding is that the differences in men's and women's t-shirts 
> revolve around the cut of the collar, for example (v-neck as opposed 
> to crew neck), or a tapering in the waist -- though anyone with more 
> fashion knowledge than me is free to jump in here as well.
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