Controlling servers (e.g. apache, samba)

[John Dangler]

[snip]

> >So, since webmin is obviously _not_ the developers/maintainers choice,
> >what is/are the alternative(s) ?
> >One alternative that I tried was ISPConfig (under Breezxy).  ISPConfig
> >is a nightmare with Ubuntu, and is as difficult to remove as Norton on
> >Doze (and doesn't handle qmail/vpopmail, among other things).
> >
> >So, what do the developers/maintainers suggest?
> 
> The standard answer to this question on the postfix-users is don't.  These 
> are complex systems and by using such tools you will not develop a 
> sufficiently deep understanding of how they work and how to operate them.
> 
> I'm inclined to agree.
While I agree that learning how to setup apache, dns, mail, mysql,
iptables, etc is the best way to proceed, the OP had asked about using
webmin and why it wasn't in the repo's.  The reply was a resounding -
_because it sucks_.  While quite a subjective answer, it would be
understandable that developers/maintainers would see much more under tht
hood of an app than a user would, and would (hopefully) have a handful
of quantifiable reasons for such a conclusion.

But, to leave it at that, simply tells the entire community - _there are
no useful tools which do this, and we don't intend to build or support
one_ (which is probably not a good summary to infer).

Since I have tried a couple of these tools in the past (albeit on past
versions of Ubuntu) and found them to be extremely easy to install, but
difficult at best in their expected performance, I have learned to do
most of the server admin work by hand from the command line.
Admittedly, I still have a long way to go, but would really rather
concentrate on development (among other things), and have a convenient
tool (or set of tools) to handle the housekeeping of the server itself.

So, if anyone on the list (including developers/maintainers) knows of
any tools like this (or if there are any in the works), I (and I'm sure
the OP) would like to hear about them.

Here's my .02 for what I have tried, and what I am doing at present

ISPConfig - mentioned above...

LAMPP was ok, but I got the feeling that it kept everything in its own
world, which I wasn't really enamored with, and was also a nightmare to
remove (and didn't leave behind any of my configurations)

QmailAdmin - Strange to get this working, and getting it in the right
directory so that it's protected and working was something that eluded
me.

VpopAdmin - Never got this working

----
I'm using these at present - 

Apache - command line via ssh only - never found a web interface to
administer apache well

IPTables - command line via ssh only - never found a web interface to
administer rulesets.

DNS - command line via ssh only - never found a web interface to set
up/maintain domains.

mySQL - phpmyadmin works fine for this, although it doesn't appear to be
all that secure (for my development efforts, it works ok).

vPop - command line via ssh only - couldn't get vpopadmin to work at
all.

qmail - command line via ssh only - I can get qmailadmin to work
sporadically, but it never seems to be in the right directory for me to
get it to work _every_ time...

spamassassin, qmail-filter, clam - command line via ssh only - never
found a web interface to handle these.