cheap ubuntu laptop with wireless that works right "out of the box".

[Christopher Copeland]

Derek Broughton wrote:
> Christopher Copeland wrote:
>
>   
>> Then I think you need to look harder. While ndiswrapper is a
>> commendable effort, I will always prefer a native driver.
>>     
>
> Why?  It's a knee-jerk reaction of people who believe everything should be
> open source.  Nobody _must_ open-source anything, and ndiswrapper is a
> perfectly reasonable option.  It's revealing that you say _I_ need to "look
> harder", but you have no argument other than "you don't like it".
>
>   
No knees are being jerked here.. firstly I thought that "you need to 
look harder" would come across more tongue in cheek. Maybe I should have 
decorated it with a smiley..

I never said everything needs to be open-source, but given the choice 
I'll prefer a driver that is. Same when it comes to choice of OS. Watch 
out now because here comes my argument.. I've used ndiswrapper and 
native drivers on a dozen or more wireless chipsets (always testing both 
on supported cards) and in my experience have found the native drivers 
more stable and offer better performance. This includes long distance 
point to point connections, running high throughput always on 
connections etc. Then consider the chipset features unavailable to 
ndiswrapper users.. try putting a card into master or monitor mode. What 
about link quality? Admittedly that is a result of the NDIS5 drivers and 
not of the ndiswrapper project but I'd rather have hardware fully 
supported than work "just enough" or not at all. So for my money: native 
 > ndiswrapper > nothing.
>> Often it is 
>> not a question of asking (forcing?) a manufacturer to develop two
>> drivers at their expense but rather to release enough information so
>> the community can write the linux driver. 
>>     
>
> Then it takes time for the linux community to develop the drivers _IF_
> anybody even sees the need.  That's no way for a manufacturer to develop
> sales: "Here's some hardware, and in six months you might actually be able
> to use it..."
>
>   
I'm patient. I'm happy to use ndiswrapper while I wait and help test the 
native driver. I think most manufacturers plan to develop sales by 
selling to the windows crowd, no? This thread was about choice, choosing 
a laptop that works with wireless.. *my* choice would be to use hardware 
from manufacturers that release code or specs and have native drivers 
available. Then I can always use ndiswrapper as a backup.
>> I would say ndiswrapper is 
>> great for those situations where you have no control over hardware
>> choice.. but if possible it is best to support companies that play
>> well with the linux community when spending your hard earned [insert
>> local currency].
>>     
>
> And, in what way, is selling hardware that works well in Linux with
> ndiswrapper _not_ playing well with the community?
>   
Surely you can see how releasing a product with only windows drivers is 
*less* supportive than releasing hardware specs or a native linux 
driver? The point is to reward companies that are more proactive with 
their support. If you wish to continue this discussion, it would be best 
to do so off-list.
--
Christopher Copeland