Nautilus acting up

[rikona]

Hello Liam,

Tuesday, December 6, 2016, 1:23:51 AM, Liam wrote:

> On 5 December 2016 at 23:17, rikona <rikona at sonic.net> wrote:
>> Do you mean 12.04 to 16.04, for example, or is it also a problem
>> with the security etc updates one does regularly? I stick with the
>> LTS versions.

> As I said. Version upgrades. Not patches, not updates, version
> upgrades. When the version number of the distro release changes.

OK - thanks - just didn't want to get into semi-frequent problems.

>>> You can install the current Nemo from a PPA and have it control your
>>> desktop.
>>
>> Does this happen 'automatically' or do you need to do additional
>> things to get 'control'?

> Google it.

I did, but the things I found were for different problems/desires
where people wanted to specifically change how the desktop behaved,
and changed multiple things in doing so. Some were about bug 1570243,
which I seem to have, but is a different problem. It looked like it
took some changes, but it was not clear what was happening with just a
simple install without the additional steps.

> You need to explicitly set Nemo to control the desktop.

> http://www.webupd8.org/2013/10/install-nemo-with-unity-patches-and.html

This is presented in a bit more clear way, and has additional useful
warnings/comments. Thanks. Your comment below helped me to understand
part of what 'control' means, which was not clear.

> But if you do, when you update, you will have problems.

>>> Or you can run the snapshot in the Ubuntu repositories.
>>
>> How does this differ from the PPA? Don't they both install the same
>> Nemo?

> No. If they did, why bother having a PPA? Why bother maintaining it?
> What would be the point?

> The PPA has a newer version. The repos have the version from whatever
> version of Cinnamon was current when that release of Ubuntu was
> shipped.

Just wanted to be very clear. Installing the KDE desktop was a
disaster. I didn't want to do anything like that.

>>> That's what I do now as I got tired of fixing Nemo every 6 months
>>> when upgrading.
>>
>> I'm assuming you meant the Ubuntu repositories...

> AFAICT, doesn't matter. Either.

>>> Remove the Files icon from the launcher.
>>
>>> Run Nemo.
>>
>> Did that.
>>
>>> Right-click its icon, pick "lock to launcher".
>>
>> The only choice was 'unlock', which I didn't do - it seems that it was
>> already put on the launcher following installation/run.

> Not normally, AFAIK, no. Either you already had it there or you
> didn't remove Nautilus' icon first.

The steps were: 1- check if nemo was installed [it was not], 2- remove
Files icon from the launcher, 3 - install nemo using 'Software', 4 -
run nemo, 5 - nemo icon appears in the bar, 6 - right-click its icon
on the bar, 7 - the only choice at that point was 'unlock'. The icon
seems to be working properly...

>>  I note that
>> both filers are called "Files", but have different icons. :-) Why is
>> Nemo called 'Files' instead of Nemo?

> The underlying program was called Nautilus.

> https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Nautilus

> It was renamed "Files" in GNOME 3.6.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Files#History

> GNOME 3 has been progressively removing features from Nautilus in an
> effort to make it simpler -- including its name. The menu bar has been
> reduced to a single menu, there are no tabs any more, and many other
> features have gone.

> Many people do not like this, including the Ubuntu maintainers.

I really don't like it! Some of those features are very nice to have.
One of the reasons I installed some KDE software was to get pgms that
HAVE a good set of useful features.

> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/02/ubuntu-16-04-reverts-to-older-version-of-nautilus

> The Cinnamon project forked it and added back the removed features,
> plus new ones. The fork is called Nemo, who was the captain of the
> submarine Nautilus in Jules Verne's novel /60,000 Leagues under the
> Sea/.

> https://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/nemo

> You could learn this yourself by Googling it. You should not need me
> to do it for you. I am at work and this is not what I am paid for.

When I was checking this out I DID find most of the things you
mentioned about history etc. You did not need to tell me those things.
My original question was WHY is Nemo called 'Files' instead of Nemo -
as in why did they do that?

>> The filer Dolphin is called
>> Dolphin,

> Because it replaced the old KDE file manager, Konqueror. The name is
> to distinguish it.

That part I also knew from looking for konq, no longer in the
repositories, and is listed in few places now - I use both on
occasion. I mentioned that because the icons often have a form of the
actual name - which I find useful and informative. Dolphin seems like
a dumbed-down konq. :-)

>>> Then when you want a filer window, click that icon. Very simple.
>>
>> Indeed. Thanks for the suggestion! Nemo seems to be working properly
>> with respect to the icon and alt tab. I don't know what happened with
>> Nautilus, but I'm glad to be rid of it.

> You are not rid of it. It is still managing your desktop unless you
> have changed it. So if you click on a drive icon, you get Nautilus,
> not Nemo.

Aha - the only drive icon I have is trash, and Nautilus does indeed
come up. Normally I don't have drive icons - I get there via a FM.

> Pick Help | About to find which you are running in a particular
> window, or look for the changes in the menu bar, sidebar, etc.

Pretty easy to tell visually, since I set them up differently...

>> Nemo does NOT insist on opening the target drag/drop folder, as did
>> Nautilus, BUT it does take a long time to complete the operation, so
>> it seems that some underlying operations are still taking a lot of
>> time. Copying a few files into a very large folder [~50,000 files] is
>> MUCH faster between 2 instances of Dolphin.
>>
>> Also, I still can't copy a filename in Nemo and paste it to other
>> places. That works with Dolphin, but still not with Nemo.

> Press F2 to rename. Press Ctrl-A to "select all" if you want the file
> extension as well. Press Ctrl-C to copy the name.

> Go to the new file. Press F2 to edit. Press Ctrl-A to Select All if
> you want to change the extension too. Press Ctrl-V to paste.

Yep - that's one of a few different ways I tried to copy/paste - none
of them work. But, to add to the strangeness, I CAN paste into Kate
and then copy what is in Kate, and THEN I can paste the Kate copy in
other places. Why does KDE stuff seem to work better on my Ubuntu
desktop?

>> I'm assuming the snapshot did not install another desktop.

> I don't know. I don't know exactly what you installed or how.

Above 1-7 is what I did.

>> I really understand that re the desktop. I had to reinstall Ubuntu
>> from scratch to get rid of the KDE desktop that screwed up the works.
>> But I have installed some KDE pgms, like Dolphin, that are working
>> better than their Ubuntu counterparts, like Nautilus or Nemo.

> And that is what I advised against. Mixing programs from Gtk 3-based
> desktops is fine, so long as there are no conflicts -- e.g. Unity,
> Cinnamon, GNOME 3.

> Mixing Gtk2 ones as well will cause duplication, mismatched
> appearances, etc. E.g. Xfce, Maté, LXDE.

> Mixing KDE or Qt based apps as well will bring in a ton of extra
> libraries and some interaction may not work as expected. E.g. I would
> not expect it to be possible to set a KDE file manager as the desktop
> manager for a GNOME-based desktop environment.

> This is why I advise against it.

> It should not break your system, but it can cause undesirable
> behaviour and definitely will cause disk usage to rise sharply.

The above brief overview is an excellent, informative explanation - a
good mix of info, causes, and implications - thanks!

>> Thanks for the help and suggestions.

> That's OK, but please, try to find answers yourself with Google and
> Wikipedia before asking?

I do - but I also know you'll NEVER believe that. :-) You have a great
deal of knowledge and experience - you know the subject in breadth as
well as depth. Many things that are obvious to you are not evident to
a lowly user such as my self. For me, it is a tool, NOT a job. A new
problem really is new to me - I have to learn what I can do to fix it.
You can probably select better search words than I can because of your
expertise. The first part of my learning is usually to learn enough to
do better searches for a good answer. I have, many times, suggested
that others search for knowledge that I know well - what I observe is
that initially I can usually pick better search techniques than they
can because of my knowledge - for example tpmde in the context of
biochemistry.

I have an automobile, but I certainly don't know as much as an auto
engineer or an excellent mechanic. I may learn enough to fix my car,
but each 'fix' is new, and what I learn is only a somewhat incomplete
fraction of what the engineer knows. Not as complex as computers, but
a similar thing.

The right extra sentence or two from you might save hours of time for
someone else, and is much appreciated.

Thanks, 

 rikona