Can anyone tell me what is wrong with LibreOffice?

[Xen]

Colin Law schreef op 06-10-2017 23:18:

> There is a big difference between blaming the user and suggesting that
> it is the configuration of the computer (which I suspect was what was
> meant).

I disagree because this can put someone on an endless fruitless search 
for the "problem" in the way of fixing it sometimes even up to the point 
of patching code, recompiling the application etc.

The biggest reason I disagree is because it is ineffective.

Even if there is a configuration issue somewhere, unless "upstream" 
fixes it, the problems will keep pouring over you, because it is obvious 
this particular user didn't do anything particularly wrong.

(Or maybe he didn't press F7 yet, who knows).

So putting the burden on the user for fixing this instance of this 
problem, even if he solves it, or she, by excusing the developer you 
ensure that the next person will also run into this problem.

This is why it's ineffective: it's not any form of development.

> Configuration can be messed up without the user being at
> fault.

Sure but then the configuration came to be at fault through faulty 
software.

> There is no personal attack involved in suggesting that the
> configuration settings may be messed up.  We have all experienced
> that.

Again if the user was not involved in that, the blame lies with the 
developers.

> The OP, however, was clearly attempting to lay blame on the
> developers

Exactly as he should if they created the messed up configuration in a 
certain way.

I know it is "out of model" to hold free-as-in-beer software accountable 
to its flaws. But that still doesn't mean it is effective to point to 
the user or this particular computer for solving the problems.

And I get that Owen just wants to solve his problem but if we continue 
for ever to excuse developers, the thing will NEVER improve.

And I get that a little bit of money would help with that which is why I 
think regular commerce (buying stuff) is really the only model that 
actually works for real.

It feels really good to make a sale, doesn't it.

So I don't think it is inappropriate if those developers would say: well 
if you want it to be fixed, here is the $10 version, I can't promise 
anything yet, but I'll take your requests as development priorities.

There is nothing wrong with taking money for work. And in this way it 
would be users who direct development instead of (sometimes) (a$$hole) 
developers.

Because face it, in open source, the users are NOT in charge.

Instead generally today it is a 2 bln. dollars per year company who is 
generally in charge about everything.

It would be better (for me at least) if it was the user who paid those 
salaries...

> saying that they "should find and put resources toward
> making Libre Office function, or remove it from the default
> installation".

There is no alternative to LibreOffice so that is a bit quick to judge, 
and I don't know how much something like Canonical can do (but they can 
do much), but overall the LibreOffice developers community is completely 
hostile to any form of complaints you might have, actively arguing 
against any proposals for improvement you might have.

In a corporate structure, the boss, or client, or supervisor, only has 
to say "This needs to change" and its basically done.

They won't come up with a thousand excuses (hopefully) that something 
can't be done, if you are really the one paying the bills, you get what 
you want.

This culture of rejecting responsibility that we have here ensures that 
most project are completely developer-driven and the user has really 
nothing to say about it.

And if you want something, they say "Jump through these 3000 loopholes 
to become a developer, maybe then you can have what you want".

Not all, in my experience the Kernel-hosted projects are more practical 
and do take requests or comments.

But there are at least 2 things about LibreOffice that are terrible:

- the recovery feature for a crash sometimes fails to properly work
- there is only single-character undo and severely limited by default

And I forgot the 3rd one I wanted to say lol.

Myself I run into the issue all the time that backspace will reset the 
left margin but it will leave the right margin intact.

That for some incredulous reason the end of the document is always in a 
font, colour or style that you explicitly don't want.

That it's really painful to set up styles, because you can't create new 
ones directly out of a formatting you have applied.

That you can't copy and paste formatting to other text.

That when you return to text, it won't apply the formatting that text 
had, but instead it "smartly" keeps the formatting you applied right 
after.

Which is often invisible.

Resulting in pretty random behaviour from my pov.

And for complete consistency, you always have to cursor-over the last 
character and back again to the right.

Which defeats the entire purpose of the feature.

And I can go on for a while I think.

I happen to write a lot.

But they are hostile to any suggestions you make, even if you have a 
concrete suggestion to make.

And will burn you down before sliming with other people saying what a 
great community they have.

Meanwhile their website is one big advertisement promising the Golden 
Future.

But anyway....



I don't see why we couldn't have a culture of becoming a "patron" to 
software, and I don't mean using Patreon.com or something, I mean the 
idea of becoming a "supporter" like it has always existed in forms of 
memberships.

Why not have money-driven development?

Why not buy the right to have a say about the software?

One-time donations are not the same.

But like you could become a supporting member for $5 a year or $10 a 
year and your comments and other users' comments get taken into 
consideration for the development priorities, and as such there will be 
a much bigger focus on listening to what people want.

Like I can't become a supporting member of Ubuntu, or for that matter of 
LibreOffice, or Calligra, and money is sometimes a lot easier to give 
than time.


I am a supporting member on SilentPCReview.com ;-).



So I say in response to the other emails:

- no we don't need a new office suite
- we just need users to matter for the current one