[ubuntu-za] Stop the Anti-Unity / Gnome 3 FUD!

[Peter Nel]

Quintin van Rooyen wrote:

> I think Lee meant that he groups windows of different applications
> together. In Gnome2, and IIRC KDE you can group for instance two of your
> three terminals, one of your two notepads and your browser window in one
> grouped indicator, and then the rest in another grouped panel indicator.

Unless you mean apps with tabs, like terminal, gedit, browsers, etc.
then I don't know what this is.
I take it's also not the old window switcher applet (as in windows
"taskbar") that groups windows of the same app?
Cairo-Dock may have 2 possible workarounds: Stack (stack files, urls,
icons), or perhaps Sub-Docks (group app launchers/switchers, though
grouping the same app multiple times with others will give you the
same one) - I've never had to use this kind of grouping.


> AFAIK this is not possible with Unity. I have never worked like this (IMO
> it took a long time to get the group set up, and I group mine by virtual
> desktop in any case) but I can certainly see the need and the advantages of
> this.
>
> Secondly, for the record, I _severely_ dislike the Unity applet switcher. I
> often alt+tab to get to a window behind another one on the same desktop and
> often get jumped to the last worked on application on a different desktop.

Like I've said before, you can replace that alt+tab app in compiz with
another compiz switcher, like I do.
It's optional, thus not a problem.
The one I use is a simple flat one (Static Application Switcher), with
mini-clickable-copies of the apps, and only displays those on the
current workspace, which elliminates that nuisance.

> Like Lee, I prefer a Window based interface rather than an application
> based interface.

I still don't know what this "window-based" vs. "application-based"
interface is... others have referred to it as "task-based".
I say there's no such distinction. Perhaps it's an initial impression
that stuck? I still only see windows and desktops like before.


> Unity can be tweaked rather easily to cater for a more window based
> workflow, so I spend thirty minutes after install to do this, but I get
> tripped up by that friggin application switcher too often.

See comment on replacing alt+tab app above.

> I remember an option under compizconfig or somewhere to "prefer
> applications on the current desktop" but it has defaulted to the old way
> after an update and I forgot where to set it.

So, there's no real problem then?

>> Besides that, icons in the launcher are now also more than just
>> launchers: they are also 'active window' indicators and selectors.
>
>
> They are application grouped, and not workflow grouped. I like them, and
> they allow me to have a quick look and see exactly what of what is open
> right now.

You like it then? You mentioned that you don't use workflow grouping?


>> [snip: me on middle-click launching]
>
> Middle click on a laptop is not intuitive unless your laptop sports a third
> button. I have yet to see a recent laptop with a middle click button. Has
> this died out or have I just missed odd one with this feature? (I know of
> the "click both buttons to middle click" way of middle clicking, but this
> also catches me out once in a while.)

If you don't have a middle mouse button, use the keyboard to launch/switch:
* Super + [1..0] := launch first instance, after first used to switch
directly to running apps
   (if pressed multiple times: window selector given when multiple
instances are running)
* Super + Shift + [1..0] := launch new instance.

TIP: Unity shortcuts are extremely useful and elegant:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts
http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/04/31-useful-ubuntu-1104-unity.html
Some nice Unity wallpaper cheat-sheets:
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/ubuntu-unity-keyboard-shortcuts.html
http://charlesmccolm.com/2011/08/12/ubuntu-unity-help/

>> ... [snip: me on extended Unity launcher icon features] ...
>
> And this is an awesome feature of Unity that I really like. Launcher apps,
> and also custom launchers that can easily be made, as well as the extra
> info.
>
> Add to this the various lenses you get now, you can make quick and
> sometimes rather complex calculations right in the dash, as a for instance,
> by pressing [super] and in the search area typing your calculation. Much
> quicker than launching an app to do this. There are other lenses available
> to do things like web searches and other basic tasks right in the dash.

Yes, I didn't even mention this. There are some awesome new
innovations around the dash - it's improving from both Canonical and
the community's side.

> This shows a level of adaptability of Unity that is exciting, but also
> frustrating for those with special or complex requirements like Lee has.

IDK, Perhaps Lee's problem really is insurmountable with the current Unity.
Like Mark said, it's inevitable that some people will be disappointed
- after all, it was kind of a radical change, a paradigm shift!
Resistance is both expected and necessary.
Perhaps we'll even lose strong & loyal users to other distros... but I
would have loved it if esp. those users stuck around to help get
everyone over that hump, and improved the system - isn't that the free
software way? Sounds better than perpetuating fearful
counter-productive negativity? People should help out, or be quiet (or
at least, voice concerns in a way that leads to solutions)... it's
difficult enough as it is!

I'm lucky to not have had any significant problems with Unity (besides
the clutter/mutter performance issues in the initial UNR 10.04
release); but I did have serious issues in past with other releases --
now I actually miss that, because it forced me to learn the system,
and gave me opportunities to engage the community, and contribute
back... even if only motivated by self-interest.

> I think being able to build a group and binding them to a "group" icon in
> the unity launcher would help people like Lee who group tasks by work done
> out a lot, and widen the appeal of the interface.

Lee, suggestion: why don't you go write up a well documented use-case
on http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/faq/)
to try get this implemented? I've seen others that would like this.
There may be other channels to affect this besides brainstorm.
Take note:
http://cheesehead-techblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/ubuntu-brainstorm-inside-sausage.html
- - -
Brainstorm gets about 2,000 submissions each year.
... we close about 85% of them immediately. That's good - it keeps the
system from being spammed by all those bugs, complaints, and other
not-really-ideas.
About 2% get reviewed by the Ubuntu Technical Board. We try to get the
most out of that 2%!
...
- - -


>
>> What I've also done since before Unity is group apps by workspace
>> (desktop):
>> 1) Work: work apps, IDE's, coding, text editing, etc.
>> 2) Mail: work mail, personal mail
>> 3) Entertainment: IM, chat, newreader, music, video
>> 4) Terminal, multiple terminal windows / tab-groups
>>
>> I use Ctrl+Alt+<cursor> to slide the the desktop, then alt+tab to get
>> to the correct window. There are other ways, like keyboard + mouse
>> combo.
>>
>> The unity alt+tab switcher kindof kills this way of doing it. Have you
> set it to prefer applications on the current desktop as I mentioned above?
> I have it jumping back to whatever had focus on a previous desktop at the
> moment.

Again, alt+tab behavior can be replaced (or configured as you said).
Though it takes 1-2 minutes to do, not a 1/2 hour like you say.


>> Also, Cairo dock is highly customizable, and brings back some of the
>> old panel-like functionality. Though I'm using it less and less these
>> days. A bit redundant, and starting to get in the way.
>>
>
> I miss some of that functionality, and I whitelist a lot of application
> indicators (such as that hated must-have because everyone else uses it
> Skype) and DropBox.

Agreed.
There's a promising Unity launcher app for DropBox:
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/unity-launcher-icon-to-share-files.html

Consider Ubuntu One? (5Gb free, vs. 2Gb dropbox & nicely integrated by default)
http://martinwebster.eu/2011/03/06/review-dropbox-vs-ubuntu-one/
http://www.ubuntumonk.com/2011/09/27/ubuntu-one-or-dropbox/

As for Skype, the skype-wrapper app greatly improves Skype integration
with the messaging system - hope this gets included in the main
repository soon:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/skype-wrapper-lands-in-a-ppa-for-easy-installation/


>> >> Yes that's a Compiz feature called 'Grid' (not Unity! It's existed
>> >> long before, just like multiple desktop-workspaces). If you don't like
>> >> it, disable it with the Compiz-Config app.
>> >
>
> Which is unfortunately not installed by default, nor is there a way to
> tweak this behaviour by default.

Yes it is installed by default in 11.10... this is why you should
stick with it :-)
(BTW it was never installed by default on any distro or any previous
release I know of...?)
Install Compiz-Config to tweak - problem solved!

BTW the reason that compiz-config is not installed by default is that
some of the compiz features could make the desktop unstable... it's
assumed that if you install it, you're ok with this, and can recover
your system.
Nothing critical.. just sometimes rendering goes bonkers and you may
have to restart your session, or reboot. They're working on this I'm
sure, but it was non-priority as I understand. Perhaps it will be
installed by default in 12.04?

Man! I miss the good old days, when really smart geeks complained
about really difficult problems. LOL!!


>> I have had the complaint of not including CCSM by default for ages.
>
> And the point is that new users will not know about this option.

I wish all us tech-savvy geeks would stop worrying about the poor
newbie users... if it's not on by default, newbies can probably live
without it.
99% of the complaints are from users who are perfectly capable of
configuring the system the way they want.


>> >> I've activated compiz edge-flipping myself to drag windows to other
>> >> desktops in stead of tiling them on the current workspace / desktop.
>> >
>> > This is nice.  Especially since you can no longer right click and "Move
>> > to workspace Right."
>>
>
> I prefer the keyboard shortcuts for navigating between desktops. Never
> could get around to using the mouse to navigate around like that. Can it
> not be set in CCSM?

I'm using exactly that as stated in my comment below. I thought the
hotkeys were enabled by default. If not, CCSM should be able to set
it.

There also some other more flamboyant ways, like dragging windows
around in Expo view (Super+S)


>> An even faster way is to Ctrl+Alt+Shift+<cursor> : grabs the active
>> window and pulls it the desktop in the direction of the cursor, e.g.
>> above, below, or to the side.


>
> There is a dash lens that mimics the functionality of the old gnome
> launcher. If you search the askubuntu website you should find it under
> custom lenses or something.

Cairo-Dock also has an old gnome menu widget. Docky too.
There's also an indicator app:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/06/classicmenu-indicator-puts-old-school-gnome-menus-in-unity/

But why would you need those ;-)


> Cheersforeers
> --
> Quintin van Rooyen


l8r!

-- 
Péter Nel