[ubuntu-za] Stop the Anti-Unity / Gnome 3 FUD!

[Peter Nel]

Quinton, please grant me a moment.

This discussion may have entered that phase where a personal
conversation is better suited. Trying not to sound long-winded in my
response :-

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Quintin van Rooyen
<quintin.vanrooyen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Dec 29, 2011 5:18 PM, "Peter Nel" <fourdots at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Folks, sorry if I'm coming across crudely or impatient. I'm just going
>> through the motions.
>
> No Peter, reading through your response to my mail and your insistence in
> trying to check my timing doing things comes across as pedantic, and your
> response makes you seem arrogant and condescending.

Please, I think you misunderstood me!
That last part of my previous post about your customization times was
just me geeking out trying to prove you wrong (as is my nature,
perhaps to my detriment) and failing in the process. If anything
meaningful, it was meant as a humorous acceptance of defeat.

I'm really sorry you feel this way. People tend to label me
argumentative... I just feel that all there is to say about a thing
must be said or we don't have a complete picture, perhaps that comes
across as forcing an issue.
Yes, I can be pedantic to a point of arrogant condescension...
sometimes more so when I feel the other party is unwaveringly ignorant
(not that you are).
I don't mean to be malicious.

I actually believed we were more on the same side of the issue, since
you used several customizations that I didn't, and seemed to be an
active Unity user.

> I know of a lot of the changes you keep trying to force on me and why do you
> insist on trying to correct whatever I say until you are satisfied that I am
> doing it your way?

I truly wasn't trying to force anything, I was just enumerating
alternatives. I believe debate is an iteration of this from both sides
until a common truth is found - greater than the half-truths held by
either party beforehand (sorry if it sounds like i'm correcting you
again...); it also works better without ego's, and if neither party
has a vested stake in the outcome, or in the other party winning or
losing.
I've actually learned a few things after this sparring with you - so
it was entirely worth it for me.

> The problem with Unity and desktop managers et al are not how they are
> built, or how they work. It is users like you who refuse to see there are
> other alternatives and needs.

In many discussions on this subject have I recognized specific
use-cases that Unity does not fit. I did not recount all of them here.
However, my question to you: Did you concede on anything? or did you
also stubbornly insist on your position? Could I perhaps say the same
about you refusing to acknowledge alternatives?
Not that it matters, it really doesn't. We're just talking.

> In the future I will think twice on responding to threads you are involved
> in.

Sad to hear this. The last thing I want to do is alienate anyone.

> I see Lee has specific needs. He has a specific work methodology, as far as
> I can see Unity, Gnome 3 et al is incompatible with it.
>
> I have explained my own way of customising my experience in order to add to
> the discussion, and maybe hash something out to make the unity experience
> better and more flexible in a small way.
>
> You have soured this conversation with your tone and I am again presented
> with how frustrated users must feel when they have a real issue and it gets
> pish poshed away.

Everything else aside, didn't I give at least SOME actual workable
solutions to problems people have?

> Quintin


Kind Regards

Péter Nel