[OT] life in different places; "to work or not to work?"

[Michael Shigorin]

On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 02:21:48PM +0200, Duncan Anderson wrote:
> > > In my part of rural South Africa, "wasting time" surfing
> > > the internet would solve one of the major problems faced by
> > > young people: boredom.
> > What would they eat?
> Well, that isn't such a big problem, because it is very easy to
> grow stuff here, and there is a lot of fruit growing wild all
> over the place, like bananas, papayas, mangoes, guavas, etc. 

Ah, so the basic problem is not.

> I agree with you that this sort of behaviour is unjustifiable.
> All I was saying is that perhaps if these young people had
> something to occupy their minds they might resist the urge to
> go and "rape and pillage" as you so accurately describe it.

I'm only afraid that computer is instrument here, it doesn't
change an intention but can rather empower it proportionally.

A lot of tools were claimed to change people's intentions
but never did.

> > Is it really impossible to move to a place where agriculture
> > is striving and put one's hand to it?
> Some parts of Africa are not conducive to agriculture at all,
> due to lack of water.

Would be interesting to know how people actually employ
themselves in such areas but I guess it would be quite a time 
to answer... (hope this offtopic on my part is still not very
abusive -- this is probably the most international "chat" place
I've met to date, and it's interesting to hear about different
cultures)

> > I don't support these but I also can imagine how folks will
> > be desiring $1000 laptops and what will follow if those who
> > "helped" them this way didn't pay attention to teach them to
> > work *and* find joy in what they're doing.
> You are right. These laptops will be useless without some
> "mentoring", at least in the early days.

Hope those who are the "target audience" will be lucky enough 
to have such mentoring.  It's quite similar to problems we've
seen while introducing even capital's teachers to free software
in both schools and universities: those who should be teaching
often can't (don't want to) learn; and they still have their
own right to choose what to do.

So far I've only seen success in teaching computers (heck, in
every other skill or science too!) where teachers were eager
to discover how amazing was the workd in that particular facet
they've been teaching.  These are rare.

> > But what would they do when they want to eat, again?
> To eat they need to work. If they can grow food, that's great.
> If not, they need to find jobs. If there are no jobs to be
> found for unskilled, uneducated people, then they have to find
> ways of becoming educated.

Here one seems to be always able to get a job of a weight lifter, 
territory or building guard, or a yard sweeper.  (Last 15 years
here, quite a few lifters knew English good enough, and more 
than a single sweeper would be very interesting personality.)

> It's not a simple situation.

I know.

> I think a major difference between this part of Africa and the
> Ukraine is that people from that part of the world have had an
> excellent grounding in science, mathematics, etc. One of the
> legacies of the Soviet Union is an abundance of highly educated
> people. On the other hand, in South Africa there is a severe
> shortage of scientifically educated people, hence the
> attraction inherent in technological items which may be
> conducive to self-instruction.

I would only try to still get this out -- science alone isn't
about making people's lives better.  It's about facts, methods 
and knowledge; not about love or humanity.

Looking around, it's often harder to live with an education since
there are more perceived problems; and sometimes those of them
which would be taken on and eventually solved by simpler minds,
are unsolvable by overheating ones who see too many obstacles at
once.  The latter might also be more "exploitable", e.g. prone to
strange mixups of truth and false -- oftenly falling desperate.

There's (another) anecdote here telling of a person who
approached scientists several times asking to enlarge his IQ,
and the last time -- "folks, get me back to 10 please".

Some came to frustration following their way through science --
seeing how it doesn't help to live one's life.  I've seen highly
educated people in monasteries whose parents would wounder aloud
why break the carrier but who were happier -- and I believe
better -- there.

Don't think all science of the world is worth a single life...
Don't think it's going anywhere.

> Your observations are very thought-provoking.

Oh, usually these are just provoking and illegible.  I don't know
how to tell what I see to people, I didn't learn to love them 
that much.  And so it boils down to pointless flame.

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike at altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/