Ubuntu 11.10 makes Unity compulsory

[Avi]

(also, sorry, I think this hit your personal address earlier)

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> Have you looked at the Israeli flag or the Israeli emblem?
> They are, respectively, the Star of David and the Menorah.  I
> do believe that both of those are Jewish.

Equally, the Union Flag is composed of three crosses, but I don't think 
the UK and Christianity are at all the same thing. Even if England has 
its own church.

> "The name Israel has historically been used, in common and religious
> usage, to refer to the Land of Israel, the biblical Kingdom of Israel
> and the entire Jewish nation. According to the Bible, the name
> "Israel" was given to the patriarch Jacob (Standard Yisraʾel, Isrāʾīl;
> Septuagint Greek: Ἰσραήλ; "persevere with God") after he
> successfully wrestled with an angel of God."
This isn't specific to Judaism at all -

> How about the fact that Israel doesn't yet have a written constitution
> because:
> "The Religious Jews at the time opposed the idea of their nation having
> a document which the government would regard as nominally "higher" in
> authority than religious texts such as the Tanakh, Talmud, and Shulkhan
> Arukh."

How is this Israel 'being' Judaism any more than it is Israel bending to 
the will of a religions group?


> "The concept of a national homeland for the Jewish people in the
> British Mandate of Palestine was enshrined in Israeli national policy
> and reflected in many of Israel's public and national institutions. The
> concept was expressed in the Declaration of the Establishment of the
> State of Israel on 14 May 1948 and given concrete expression in the Law
> of Return, passed by the Knesset on 5 July 1950, which declared: "Every
> Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh." This was
> extended in 1970 to include non-Jews with a Jewish grandparent, and
> their spouses."

Yes, the concept of a Jewish homeland. It's worth bearing in mind that 
during the birth of modern Zionism, anti-semitism (let's call it that 
for now) was rife across Europe and Russia. The desire for a Jewish 
homeland was one for a country where Jews would be welcomed; one they 
could flee too from wherever they felt persecuted. That's still, to me, 
the essence of Israel's Jewishness.

> Here's a whole wikipedia page dealing with just that controversy:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state

That article flies almost exactly in the face of everything else you've 
been saying - acknowledging that even before we get to the idea that 
Israel might somehow be a part of Judaism, or vice-versa, there's 
discussion over whether it is indeed a Jewish state at all (which there 
must be if there's argument over what constitutes a 'Jewish state').

>
> Again, show me (please) how Israel and Judaism are no one and the same.
>

Because Judaism is one or both of:

a) A religion founded in a set of beliefs and traditions
b) A people, defined by a hereditary covenant.

and Israel is a country.

It's a similar but much less strong relationship to that between Iran, 
Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and Islam. Those are all Islamic countries 
much more convincingly than Israel is a Jewish one, yet I don't think 
anyone would try to claim they all have equivalence with Islam.


-- 
Avi