Ubuntu-power-users Digest, Vol 1, Issue 11
thefanum at gmail.com
thefanum at gmail.com
Fri May 20 21:26:05 UTC 2011
Jono,
While the features necessary to protect end-users will be hard to
implement due to the many different parts of the system this application
will be providing access to, the rollback/profile/undo-last options
discussed on irc will benefit the program as a whole. It will provide
protection to users who do not know what they are doing, as well as
allow the power-users to recover from calculated risks that have
undesired effects. Adding any one of those ideas with the initial
release should be enough, along with a strongly worded warning, and we
can implement more full featured protection in future releases. I think
that xdatap1 summed it up best:
"I think we should include three main features: 1) Undo last changes 2)
Revert to a date 3) Restore default settings"
Ben Straton
Lead Technician, Digital Forensic Specialist
Seattle Tech Experts llc.
Ben at SeattleTechExperts.com
www.SeattleTechExperts.com
On Fri, 2011-05-20 at 21:05 +0000,
ubuntu-power-users-request at lists.ubuntu.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Building Safety Into Our Work (Jono Bacon)
> 2. Re: Branding for the team (Zachary Mitchell)
> 3. Re: Building Safety Into Our Work (Anthony Papillion)
> 4. Re: Building Safety Into Our Work (Mike Basinger)
> 5. Re: Building Safety Into Our Work (Jono Bacon)
> 6. Re: Building Safety Into Our Work (Octavian Damiean)
> 7. Re: Building Safety Into Our Work (Evan Huus)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:39:55 -0700
> From: Jono Bacon <jono at ubuntu.com>
> To: ubuntu-power-users <ubuntu-power-users at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Building Safety Into Our Work
> Message-ID: <1305923995.2116.13.camel at forge>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Today on the #ubuntu-power-users channel LaserJock raised a really
> important point: if we have essentially two broad sets of users
> (end-users who rely on the out-of-the-box desktop experience, and power
> users who want to trick out their systems), how do we protect end-users
> from damaging their system by using tools designed for power users?
>
> I think this is an important topic of conversation, and I think the
> combined insight of the community could come up with some good ideas.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Jono
>
> --
> Jono Bacon
> Ubuntu Community Manager
> jono(at)ubuntu(dot)com
> www.ubuntu.com : www.jonobacon.org
> www.twitter.com/jonobacon : www.identi.ca/jonobacon
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 15:43:59 -0500
> From: Zachary Mitchell <zacharymitchell6 at gmail.com>
> To: ubuntu-power-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Branding for the team
> Message-ID: <4DD6D28F.9010900 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 05/20/2011 03:33 PM, Daniel Hollocher wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Octavian Damiean <mainerror at gmail.com
> > <mailto:mainerror at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > On 2011-05-20 18:06, Mike Basinger wrote:
> >
> > Do we have budding artists in the group that would like to
> > create some
> > branding for the team to put up on the LP team and wiki pages.
> > I think
> > anything that is inline with the the Ubuntu brand guidelines
> > [1] would
> > be fantastic.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> > [1]
> > http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/
> >
> > I think something like the Ubuntu animal logo t-shirts would be
> > awesome. An orange circle with an engine. I'll come up with a
> > suggestion this weekend.
> >
> >
> > How about a wrench with one of those closed loop heads that is fitted
> > to the Ubuntu logo.
> What about a hardcore linux penguin dressed like a spartan? In one hand
> the penguin is holding a shield with the Ubuntu logo, in the other he's
> holding a wrench or something.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 15:44:51 -0500
> From: Anthony Papillion <papillion at gmail.com>
> To: jono at ubuntu.com
> Cc: ubuntu-power-users <ubuntu-power-users at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Building Safety Into Our Work
> Message-ID: <BANLkTinoCAtS1Hx0xQMQdz8f0HNKGqe-vw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Jono Bacon <jono at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Today on the #ubuntu-power-users channel LaserJock raised a really
> > important point: if we have essentially two broad sets of users
> > (end-users who rely on the out-of-the-box desktop experience, and power
> > users who want to trick out their systems), how do we protect end-users
> > from damaging their system by using tools designed for power users?
>
> Hi Jono,
>
> Definitely a very important topic as even experienced users can mess things
> up from time to time. I'm going to publicly support the idea I brought up in
> the channel about backup and rollback. I think that would probably be the
> easiest route to ensure that changes were reversible. Sort of like the way
> certain tools (like registry cleaners) on Windows will back up your registry
> prior to making changes. That way, you're never left with a non-bootable
> system. At worst, you have to log in
>
> Anthony
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:55:37 -0600
> From: Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com>
> To: ubuntu-power-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Building Safety Into Our Work
> Message-ID: <4DD6D549.9020409 at ubuntu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 05/20/2011 02:39 PM, Jono Bacon wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Today on the #ubuntu-power-users channel LaserJock raised a really
> > important point: if we have essentially two broad sets of users
> > (end-users who rely on the out-of-the-box desktop experience, and power
> > users who want to trick out their systems), how do we protect end-users
> > from damaging their system by using tools designed for power users?
> >
> > I think this is an important topic of conversation, and I think the
> > combined insight of the community could come up with some good ideas.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Jono
> >
>
> I think this need to be a key foundations of the power user community.
> Giving people the tools and info to tweak their system , but in a way
> that does not damage their installs or makes it difficult for the
> kernel/bug team to help people with bug reports.
>
> We have enough sites inside/outside of Ubuntu that say "hey install this
> deb/ppa/file" it awesome and then 10 minute later the person has an
> usable system.
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Mike Basinger
> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:58:17 -0700
> From: Jono Bacon <jono at ubuntu.com>
> To: Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-power-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Building Safety Into Our Work
> Message-ID: <1305925097.2116.15.camel at forge>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Fri, 2011-05-20 at 14:55 -0600, Mike Basinger wrote:
> > I think this need to be a key foundations of the power user community.
> > Giving people the tools and info to tweak their system , but in a way
> > that does not damage their installs or makes it difficult for the
> > kernel/bug team to help people with bug reports.
> >
> > We have enough sites inside/outside of Ubuntu that say "hey install this
> > deb/ppa/file" it awesome and then 10 minute later the person has an
> > usable system.
>
> It seems one simple approach is just throwing warning notices everywhere
> before someone pulls the trigger, but I also wonder if there a better
> way of categorizing different options into different levels of risk.
>
> This could arguably be performed within a tool such as Ubuntu Tweak.
>
> Another thing I think we need is a Safety page on the Power User wiki
> that explains that users should be careful, not just randomly install
> debs from the Internet etc. Would anyone be interested in creating such
> a page?
>
> Jono
>
> --
> Jono Bacon
> Ubuntu Community Manager
> jono(at)ubuntu(dot)com
> www.ubuntu.com : www.jonobacon.org
> www.twitter.com/jonobacon : www.identi.ca/jonobacon
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 23:04:05 +0200
> From: Octavian Damiean <mainerror at gmail.com>
> To: ubuntu-power-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Building Safety Into Our Work
> Message-ID: <4DD6D745.3020602 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 2011-05-20 22:58, Jono Bacon wrote:
> > On Fri, 2011-05-20 at 14:55 -0600, Mike Basinger wrote:
> >> I think this need to be a key foundations of the power user community.
> >> Giving people the tools and info to tweak their system , but in a way
> >> that does not damage their installs or makes it difficult for the
> >> kernel/bug team to help people with bug reports.
> >>
> >> We have enough sites inside/outside of Ubuntu that say "hey install this
> >> deb/ppa/file" it awesome and then 10 minute later the person has an
> >> usable system.
> > It seems one simple approach is just throwing warning notices everywhere
> > before someone pulls the trigger, but I also wonder if there a better
> > way of categorizing different options into different levels of risk.
> >
> > This could arguably be performed within a tool such as Ubuntu Tweak.
> >
> > Another thing I think we need is a Safety page on the Power User wiki
> > that explains that users should be careful, not just randomly install
> > debs from the Internet etc. Would anyone be interested in creating such
> > a page?
> >
> > Jono
> >
> Having warning notices thrown everywhere sounds quite intrusive. It
> sounds a bit like approaches that other operating system took which can
> become quite annoying.
>
> This should come with an option to deactivate the warnings.
>
> I would definitely help with the safety page.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:05:03 -0400
> From: Evan Huus <eapache at gmail.com>
> To: Anthony Papillion <papillion at gmail.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-power-users <ubuntu-power-users at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Building Safety Into Our Work
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikOezeA12E6JkKZ2v67Ab3zBGCfSg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Anthony Papillion <papillion at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Jono Bacon <jono at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Everyone,
> >>
> >> Today on the #ubuntu-power-users channel LaserJock raised a really
> >> important point: if we have essentially two broad sets of users
> >> (end-users who rely on the out-of-the-box desktop experience, and power
> >> users who want to trick out their systems), how do we protect end-users
> >> from damaging their system by using tools designed for power users?
> >
> > Hi Jono,
> >
> > Definitely a very important topic as even experienced users can mess things
> > up from time to time. I'm going to publicly support the idea I brought up in
> > the channel about backup and rollback. I think that would probably be the
> > easiest route to ensure that changes were reversible. Sort of like the way
> > certain tools (like registry cleaners) on Windows will back up your registry
> > prior to making changes. That way, you're never left with a non-bootable
> > system. At worst, you have to log in
> >
> > Anthony
>
> This is definitely an key topic, so it's worth pointing out that
> Ubuntu Tweak is already fairly good about this. I don't have it in
> front of me, so I can't quote specific options, but I know it does
> have two useful features in this regard:
>
> 1) PPA Removal: this feature removes the PPA from your sources and
> safely downgrades all affected packages, doing some clever stuff to
> handle the weird dependency problems that can come from doing this
> manually.
>
> 2) Gconf backup/restore: exactly as the windows registry option that
> you mentioned, Anthony.
>
> Both features could probably be more prominent, but they do exist already.
>
> Evan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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